“On our website, you can download the source data that we use in our digital services.

'Open data' is data that has been made available to the public, for personal, educational or commercial use.

Open data has been shown to stimulate innovation and economic growth. As a forward thinking company we understand the vital role the transport network plays in our community, now and in the future.

The data on the portal is updated automatically when we update our digital services, for example when we make a change to our timetables or network. Downloads are currently available as either .CSV or .XML files.”


Does anyone know what programme that can be used to open the documents after there been downloaded?




https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/opendata


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“On our website, you can download the source data that we use in our digital services.

'Open data' is data that has been made available to the public, for personal, educational or commercial use.

Open data has been shown to stimulate innovation and economic growth. As a forward thinking company we understand the vital role the transport network plays in our community, now and in the future.

The data on the portal is updated automatically when we update our digital services, for example when we make a change to our timetables or network. Downloads are currently available as either .CSV or .XML files.”


Does anyone know what programme that can be used to open the documents after there been downloaded?




https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/opendata


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Excel might be the best bet for that CSV file

Most text editors will open an xml file, but neither are likely to be in a format that is intended for the majority of people to read and understand. They're data sets for developers to use.

“On our website, you can download the source data that we use in our digital services.

'Open data' is data that has been made available to the public, for personal, educational or commercial use.

Open data has been shown to stimulate innovation and economic growth. As a forward thinking company we understand the vital role the transport network plays in our community, now and in the future.

The data on the portal is updated automatically when we update our digital services, for example when we make a change to our timetables or network. Downloads are currently available as either .CSV or .XML files.”


Does anyone know what programme that can be used to open the documents after there been downloaded?




https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/opendata


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you can find a copy of TransXChange 2.4 in the depths of the internet you can "publish" the TransXChange timetable files in to pdf format. Its how some operators use EBSR

If you can find a copy of TransXChange 2.4 in the depths of the internet you can "publish" the TransXChange timetable files in to pdf format. Its how some operators use EBSR

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/transxchange

For anyone interested in this stuff here's the live updated links for fares for GoNorthEast and Arriva Northumbria aswell:

GNE - https://data.bus-data.dft.gov.uk/fares/d...1/download
Arriva Northumbria - https://data.bus-data.dft.gov.uk/fares/d...2/download

It's not usable without it being coded into a nice view though. The fares data should be easy enough to do though if you could be bothered.

For anyone interested in this stuff here's the live updated links for fares for GoNorthEast and Arriva Northumbria aswell:

GNE - https://data.bus-data.dft.gov.uk/fares/d...1/download
Arriva Northumbria - https://data.bus-data.dft.gov.uk/fares/d...2/download

It's not usable without it being coded into a nice view though. The fares data should be easy enough to do though if you could be bothered.

I wonder why the operators don't develop this into their own websites? It shouldn't take a third party to present fare information to their customers.

I wonder why the operators don't develop this into their own websites? It shouldn't take a third party to present fare information to their customers.

Cynical hat on - they only want to present the 'value' and marketable tickets to Customers. Not the poorer value one off tickets that won't attract Customers.

Cynical hat on - they only want to present the 'value' and marketable tickets to Customers. Not the poorer value one off tickets that won't attract Customers.

Somebody needs to tell Stagecoach then as they show every possible fare when planning a journey and some of the Go Ahead companies have fare look ups for A to B trips

I wonder why the operators don't develop this into their own websites? It shouldn't take a third party to present fare information to their customers.

The cynic in me is because some things are better not known. It's weird as they've actually got the code to create tables aswell.

Just generated one for the 57A (Arriva) and some things are probably better not known. £6.10 for a single from Ashington to North Shields ouch.

https://easyupload.io/wx4725 - 57A Fares Table.

The cynic in me is because some things are better not known. It's weird as they've actually got the code to create tables aswell.

Just generated one for the 57A (Arriva) and some things are probably better not known. £6.10 for a single from Ashington to North Shields ouch.

https://easyupload.io/wx4725 - 57A Fares Table.

Would be interesting to see how the X15/X18 costs in singles...

Would be interesting to see how the X15/X18 costs in singles...

I tried to do the whole route but it's not available as it's split with the route splits.

https://we.tl/t-CunzSclDIb - There's the 2 Northern sections though of the X18.
https://we.tl/t-BYQXoUx6QI - and the Northern section of the X15.

Doesn't seem to be any fares above £6.70 though.

The cynic in me is because some things are better not known. It's weird as they've actually got the code to create tables aswell.

Just generated one for the 57A (Arriva) and some things are probably better not known. £6.10 for a single from Ashington to North Shields ouch.

https://easyupload.io/wx4725 - 57A Fares Table.

That's pretty ridiculous considering the 19 is only £1.70.

That's pretty ridiculous considering the 19 is only £1.70.

Stupid isn't it, mind the 19 wasn't exactly the best value either before those fares came in. That's the 19 fares there - https://we.tl/t-D9Jn19q1ou some horrid short fares. £3.10 from Seaton Delaval to Earsdon for example. It's £1.90 to £2.80 depending where you get on with the 57/57A.

Stupid isn't it, mind the 19 wasn't exactly the best value either before those fares came in. That's the 19 fares there - https://we.tl/t-D9Jn19q1ou some horrid short fares. £3.10 from Seaton Delaval to Earsdon for example. It's £1.90 to £2.80 depending where you get on with the 57/57A.

Yeah I'm glad GNE had a rethink of there fare structure as some of those are ridiculous too. If you're a first time, or infrequent bus user and are getting quoted fares like that it's definitely not going to encourage you back.

A hidden link that not many people know about - bustimes have started to show this as well (although it’s pretty secret)

https://bustimes.org/fares/datasets/1308 - Go North East

bustimes.org/fares/ as they are slowly added

£3.00 from Ouston to Birtley?! Jesus wept.

How on earth do they justify Birtley Newcastle Bank to Newcastle being £3.10 but a 5 minute walk to the Angel costing just £2.30…bizarrely…if you travelled 3.3 miles down Durham Road to the Swallow Hotel you pay £2.30 to Newcastle.

No wonder absolutely nobody who can has a choice avoids a bus like the plague, it’s utterly horrendous value for the basic leisure user. Get an Uber.

£3.00 from Ouston to Birtley?! Jesus wept.

How on earth do they justify Birtley Newcastle Bank to Newcastle being £3.10 but a 5 minute walk to the Angel costing just £2.30…bizarrely…if you travelled 3.3 miles down Durham Road to the Swallow Hotel you pay £2.30 to Newcastle.

No wonder absolutely nobody who can has a choice avoids a bus like the plague, it’s utterly horrendous value for the basic leisure user. Get an Uber.

It's £1.60 for a single or £3.00 for a return. I'd say that's pretty fair, right?

It's £1.60 for a single or £3.00 for a return. I'd say that's pretty fair, right?

Indeed - probably the cheapest it has ever been in years, and far more competitive in price than an Uber.


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£3.00 from Ouston to Birtley?! Jesus wept.

How on earth do they justify Birtley Newcastle Bank to Newcastle being £3.10 but a 5 minute walk to the Angel costing just £2.30…bizarrely…if you travelled 3.3 miles down Durham Road to the Swallow Hotel you pay £2.30 to Newcastle.

No wonder absolutely nobody who can has a choice avoids a bus like the plague, it’s utterly horrendous value for the basic leisure user. Get an Uber.

I know it's reduced now but it's 'boundary tax'. Most routes that goes over the Tyne and Wear / Northumberland or Durham boundary jumps stupidly. It's the same up with Arriva aswell. I believe it's £1.90 from Newcastle to Gosforth Park, want to go to Seaton Burn Roundabout it's £3.80 for example.

I believe it's because of transfares as it effectively caps how much they can charge. Note the two jumps you mentioned there are the Z1/Z2 and Z2/Z3 boundaries aswell btw. Once you cross a boundary they go out the window so they just charge whatever.

https://www.nexus.org.uk/sites/default/f...202008.pdf

£3.00 from Ouston to Birtley?! Jesus wept.

How on earth do they justify Birtley Newcastle Bank to Newcastle being £3.10 but a 5 minute walk to the Angel costing just £2.30…bizarrely…if you travelled 3.3 miles down Durham Road to the Swallow Hotel you pay £2.30 to Newcastle.

No wonder absolutely nobody who can has a choice avoids a bus like the plague, it’s utterly horrendous value for the basic leisure user. Get an Uber.

They've effectively capped the fares now. So it's not that. 

Obviously realised the ridiculous fares were putting people off, so decided to do something about it.
Possibly too late, but we will never know.

They've effectively capped the fares now. So it's not that. 

Obviously realised the ridiculous fares were putting people off, so decided to do something about it.
Possibly too late, but we will never know.

but can they actually afford to cap the fares?
that gives many existing passengers an immediate fare reduction, but it takes a long while to attract new passengers.

Will the reduced fares income be sufficient to cover the cost of running the service? 
or will cheaper fares result in the loss of the service?

I know it's reduced now but it's 'boundary tax'. Most routes that goes over the Tyne and Wear / Northumberland or Durham boundary jumps stupidly. It's the same up with Arriva aswell. I believe it's £1.90 from Newcastle to Gosforth Park, want to go to Seaton Burn Roundabout it's £3.80 for example.

I believe it's because of transfares as it effectively caps how much they can charge. Note the two jumps you mentioned there are the Z1/Z2 and Z2/Z3 boundaries aswell btw. Once you cross a boundary they go out the window so they just charge whatever.

https://www.nexus.org.uk/sites/default/f...202008.pdf

Lumley Castle have a similar sort of tax for the 71 too.
Yet GNE wonder why it always struggles

---

but can they actually afford to cap the fares?
that gives many existing passengers an immediate fare reduction, but it takes a long while to attract new passengers.

Will the reduced fares income be sufficient to cover the cost of running the service? 
or will cheaper fares result in the loss of the service?

There's many a business built on lower fares or pricing that make huge profits.

I just wonder if it is too late for GNE. They could have done this prior to the pandemic, but chose not to. I'd argue that lower fares such as this are more effective than a table, WiFi and lick of paint - in attracting the elastic punters.

If you look at GNE's most popular routes and compare it to the fare structure in place prior to the pandemic, I reckon there will be some sort of correlation.
Ditto the fare structure and the least popular routes.

Lumley Castle have a similar sort of tax for the 71 too.
Yet GNE wonder why it always struggles

Aye I believe almost every GNE service has it, just had a quick look through and it's definitely there on the 10A, 19, 20, 28, X30, X31, X45, X46, 42, X70, X71, X84, X85.

The cynic in me is because some things are better not known. It's weird as they've actually got the code to create tables aswell.

Just generated one for the 57A (Arriva) and some things are probably better not known. £6.10 for a single from Ashington to North Shields ouch.

https://easyupload.io/wx4725 - 57A Fares Table.

Thanks - interesting that the Arriva tables are a square rather than the normal triangle.

I presume you need expert computer knowledge to generate a table like you have from the xml file - or is there an easy way?

Thanks - interesting that the Arriva tables are a square rather than the normal triangle.

I presume you need expert computer knowledge to generate a table like you have from the xml file - or is there an easy way?

No worries, yeah it's quite difficult if you don't know what your doing. I just used PHP and converted to JSON (which is like a readable list) then from that you can just pull bits out then you can just generate a table using that information. I wish they'd output it as JSON as it's much more useful nowadays rather than XML and would be much more usable for anyone as it's readable.

It's how BusTimes works pretty much, it's the same for live feeds which show tracking data etc.

Oh btw I forgot to say I'm not sure what thread it was and I'm not hunting it down but the reason the app is always wrong is because the thresholds for going busy etc are way too high. For a 40 seat capacity bus I believe it's set at 52 and 64 or something like that atm. It's why it's always quiet.

Oh btw I forgot to say I'm not sure what thread it was and I'm not hunting it down but the reason the app is always wrong is because the thresholds for going busy etc are way too high. For a 40 seat capacity bus I believe it's set at 52 and 64 or something like that atm. It's why it's always quiet.

Drivers use the thresholds to determine how full the bus is.

A 74-seat double-deck bus which has 10 standees for example has the low occupancy threshold at 68 and the medium occupancy of 84. That means to the driver, their capacity turns from green to amber once they have around 10% of the vehicle's capacity remaining, and red once they're full and standing.

The thresholds aren't 'too high' - they are correct for the main purpose that Go North East use this data for. Passenger, who designed GNE's website and app, interpret the thresholds differently to how Go North East (and other operators) have been using this function on the ticket machines since it was implemented, in that they deem the low occupancy to be 'quiet', medium occupancy to be 'moderate' and high occupancy to be 'busy'. The definitions for which are 'there are plenty of seats available', 'you may need to sit next to someone' and 'the vehicle is nearly full'. Unfortunately they haven't been able to configure this differently for operators using the capacity function in this way - it's why Go North East and other operators stopped openly promoting this tool.

Drivers use the thresholds to determine how full the bus is.

A 74-seat double-deck bus which has 10 standees for example has the low occupancy threshold at 68 and the medium occupancy of 84. That means to the driver, their capacity turns from green to amber once they have around 10% of the vehicle's capacity remaining, and red once they're full and standing.

The thresholds aren't 'too high' - they are correct for the main purpose that Go North East use this data for. Passenger, who designed GNE's website and app, interpret the thresholds differently to how Go North East (and other operators) have been using this function on the ticket machines since it was implemented, in that they deem the low occupancy to be 'quiet', medium occupancy to be 'moderate' and high occupancy to be 'busy'. The definitions for which are 'there are plenty of seats available', 'you may need to sit next to someone' and 'the vehicle is nearly full'. Unfortunately they haven't been able to configure this differently for operators using the capacity function in this way - it's why Go North East and other operators stopped openly promoting this tool.

Yeah that's fair I had a feeling it was for internal purposes. By the too high I meant in reference for the apps rather than it being outright wrong. 

I'm surprised they don't just do it by setting the thresholds at 10% / 20% and 30% (or whatever figures they want) of the seated capacity which I believe is there and base it off that. Seems easy enough to implement.

Yeah that's fair I had a feeling it was for internal purposes. By the too high I meant in reference for the apps rather than it being outright wrong. 

I'm surprised they don't just do it by setting the thresholds at 10% / 20% and 30% (or whatever figures they want) of the seated capacity which I believe is there and base it off that. Seems easy enough to implement.

It's easy enough to implement, yes, but to get the app to function in this way, drivers would be seeing their capacity turn red at 30% of capacity. To them, that means they're full and shouldn't allow any more customers to board.

During the lockdown when buses were restricted to 50% of seated capacity for example, this was how it was calculated - but again the red would be at 50% of seated capacity, and the amber at around 40%.

It's easy enough to implement, yes, but to get the app to function in this way, drivers would be seeing their capacity turn red at 30% of capacity. To them, that means they're full and shouldn't allow any more customers to board.

During the lockdown when buses were restricted to 50% of seated capacity for example, this was how it was calculated - but again the red would be at 50% of seated capacity, and the amber at around 40%.

I'm not sure why it would have to affect what the drivers see.

I've just done a little script which shows the capacity of every fleet in the GNE fleet with a status on how full / busy it is with what's available.

https://www.ticketix.com/loadteststuff - Can see it there, also useful for people who seem to monitoring Sunderland's buses today in the other thread