(27 Jul 2022, 11:11 pm)Andreos1 wrote https://northeastbuses.co.uk/forum/showt...p?tid=1831&page=122What happens to those services when the shift changes the following week and folk are going home to different places?
I've not worked out the N3 to Seaham via Houghton yet.
The fella in Fawdon is probably best sticking with the car and A1 to be honest. Granted he preferred working at Rowntrees, but a jobs a job and if he can get home from his back shift in 20mins, then he hasn't got much to complain about.
(27 Jul 2022, 11:14 pm)DeltaMan wrote What happens to those services when the shift changes the following week and folk are going home to different places?Because the pro-active operator has worked closely with the employers, they know theres enough people travelling from the same or similar areas and have built their network around it.
(27 Jul 2022, 10:52 pm)Unber43 wrote There is probably barely double figures of GNE routes which get no support of councils
(27 Jul 2022, 11:42 pm)Rapidsnap wrote Before Link UP there was Care Call which Classic did run using Renault Masters. (Go-Ahead Northern ran them in the early 90s with some based at Percy Main). Me nana used to use it to go for her weekly shopping - https://www.flickr.com/photos/gjm-photog...565837053/That's it. U Call. Knew there was a U in there somewhere.
The buses used were later painted into U-Call livery which the services were lumped with when Classic won the contract for the West End U-Call (More on U-Call below) from Stagecoach.
U-Call Renault - https://www.flickr.com/photos/gjm-photog...226528752/
Before Link UP, in 2002 Nexus dabbled with the demand responsive idea in the West End of Newcastle with U-Call which was a mix of normal bus route and demand responsive transport, buses served key locations at certain times (West Denton, Kingston Park, Throckley, Lemington) with buses running between these location picking up people in various locations. There was another U-Call Service covering the Walker Area then up to Walkergate Metro before heading up to the Silverlink Industrial Area. Originally the service was ran by Stagecoach using a pair of Optare Aleros and a pair of Renault Master with Rohill Harrier bodies. A third Optare Alero appeared for the Walker Silverlink U-Call service. Some Mercedes 709Ds were later repainted into U-Call livery due to the unreliability of the low floor minibuses. The Contract passed to Classic around 2005 with the 2 Renaults passing the Classic, think the Optares may have went over but they quickley departed. Classic also had Mercedes Sprinters in U-Call colours. The Renaults and Sprinters were also used on various contracts too.
Optare Alero - https://www.flickr.com/photos/gjm-photog...8100848131
Optare Alero (East End) - https://www.flickr.com/photos/gjm-photog...1919122235
Renault Master / Rohill Harrier - https://www.flickr.com/photos/gjm-photog...1919569374
Mercedes Benz 709D - https://www.flickr.com/photos/gjm-photog...6537397183
Mercedes Sprinter (Classic) - https://www.flickr.com/photos/gjm-photog...9580823003
Then in 2006 U-Call was replaced by LinkUp with the contract going to Veolia Durham (Dunn-Line Durham).
(27 Jul 2022, 11:23 pm)Andreos1 wrote Because the pro-active operator has worked closely with the employers, they know theres enough people travelling from the same or similar areas and have built their network around it.I am due an optician appointment, what rose tinted glasses are you using?
It's not like other operators who assumes people live and work in the same places they did back in 1987.
Doing the same things over and over again and expecting to get different results.
(27 Jul 2022, 11:07 pm)Storx wrote Washington imo is one of those places that needs someone to sit down and start again. The local services imo need to go outright as they don't work, people don't want to travel for 5 minutes to then change again but there's so many services just zooming by doing nothing.Yes, Washington does need to be re-done, so does a lot of North Tyneside
Does the 56 need to be every 15 minutes bombing straight through or could it be split into 3 services; one doing the 56 every 30 minutes then the other two splitting off doing two separate services around parts of Washington, maybe doing the 84/85 loop?
Does the 8 need to run straight through or it could it be slowed down and serve parts of the 83 like on a Sunday.
Does the X1 need to be every 12 minutes avoiding all of Washington or could some serve parts of Washington similar to the X20/X21/X22 in Ashington or X9/X10/X11 going to Blyth and also doing different routes in Houghton aswell which is equally as bad or could it be split up
Does the 4 need to do an identical route through every 15 minutes or could it be split into 2 30 minutes services doing slightly different routes serving more.
(28 Jul 2022, 8:02 am)DeltaMan wrote I am due an optician appointment, what rose tinted glasses are you using?Too often I'm told on here that I'm cynical or I've encouraged people to jump on the bandwagon of anti-GNE bias.
(27 Jul 2022, 6:32 pm)F114TML wrote Probably because Nexus seem to have a rule that everyone should have a bus stop (with a service) within 400m of their house (presumably just a radius and not by walking distance). If a bus stop loses its commercial service and it serves people who have no other alternative bus within 400m, that service gets subsidised (hence the 39B). As to why the evening services are only hourly - I'm going to guess that either they can't afford it, or none of the bidders proposed a more frequent service for a descent price.
(27 Jul 2022, 6:36 pm)Malarkey wrote I said to the driver the 82 has been ran like a joke by Go North East over the years, firstly they were operating it commercially throughout the day/evening then were getting funding on an evening because it wasn't viable to operate, then at several points over the past 10 years the evenings have been contracted to another operators such as Arriva and Gateshead Central Taxis for a period before Go North East have then won the contract back.
(27 Jul 2022, 9:58 pm)Andreos1 wrote Apart from people working in the various facilities that operate 24 hours a day, visiting family, hospital visits in Gateshead and Sunderland, having social lives locally and further afield etc?
Nah, nowt.
It's a place that doesn't need or deserve a better service and as a result, those people who could use a bus after 7pm will be encouraged to use alternative means of transport during the day.
But seriously, if it takes someone 5mins during the day to get from Ayton to one of the Asda RDC's in the car or a couple of buses, a change at the Galleries and the best part of 45mins - there's only going to be one winner. It goes without saying, it's going to be less attractive on nights. Even before the last lot of Nexus bail outs.
Ditto someone going from Blackfell to Nissan. A few mins in the car along the A1231 or two buses and a change at Concord or The Galleries. Looking at journey of potentially an hour plus depending on connections using public transport.
Donwell to BAE Systems via bus? Nah. Not even worth it.
Sulgrave to Rolls Royce? Someone might have completed it.
I've not even bothered working out how difficult it would be to get to other key employment sites beyond the Washington boundary, in places like Drum Industrial Estate or Team Valley.
I just know its pretty much impossible to see the value in ditching the car and making the switch to bus.
Another network of routes that doesn't work for anyone other than the operator.
(27 Jul 2022, 10:23 pm)DeltaMan wrote Not to repeat the great MG, but car sized problems have car sized solutions
Washington, like most of the North East is dead after 1900. Its no surprise that buses have followed society in being dead behind the eyes after dark
(27 Jul 2022, 10:37 pm)DeltaMan wrote So let's say a couple of units on the Crowther has a shift change at 10pm. 15 people leave at that time. 1 lives in the Birtley, 1 lives in Fawdon, 1 lives in Hebburn, 1 lives in Biddick. 1 lives in Barmston, 2 live in Portmeads, 2 live in Chester, 1 lives in Houghton, 1 lives in Pelton, 1 lives in Seaham, 1 lives in Cleadon and 2 live near Fewster Square. How do you provide a bus service for that? You can't unless you value placing large quantities of money in the bin and setting it alight.
(27 Jul 2022, 11:09 pm)Rapidsnap wrote In most workplaces, people buddy up and get lifts off co-workers.Suprised you were able to use link up outside of your area. I worked at Doxford Park at the time and I wasn't allowed to use the Sunderland link up as my home address was South Shields and was restricted to South Tyneside only.
Example, my mam works at North Tyneside Hospital, she doesn't drive. We live approx 4 miles by road away from it. She either gets lifts from her collegues in the mornings, and usually home in the afternoon. If my brother finishes work on time (usually dependent on whether the electric knitting stays up on the East Coast Main Line) he usually picks her up. Rare occasions I may pick her up, but my shift patterns usually conflict with hers. Only as a last resort she gets a bus to work, and it's 2 buses there and 2 back, it is possible to travel to the hospital on a single bus, but the 317 goes all around North Shields before it goes anywhere near the hospital, and it even loops around the back of it before it gets there.
Another example is people I work with, if they are going in the same direction as me or live somewhere thats only takes a few minutes, I offer them a lift to near their home or to a location where they have more options for their final leg home (so they only need to get one bus instead of two).
I know from experience that Evening travel for a worker is a nightmare, especially before I learned to drive, I used to work all over Tyne and Wear for Coral, one location regularly worked in was Horsley Hill, I would finish there around 2130 and usually I would have to change twice. Usually it was a bus from Horsley Hill to South Shields, then Metro from South Shields to Jarrow or Gateshead, then bus to where I live from respective locations. When Nexus came out with the Demand Responisive LinkUp buses for everyone to use, it was brilliant, I signed up for it and actually booked it a few times from Horsley Hill to Jarrow because my Network Travelticket was valid on it, it meant I only needed to change buses once. The idea was good in theory, but they used Optare Solos, and cost cuts killed the service off. Tees Flex is a similar idea (don't know if it runs so late), but LinkUp ran up to around midnight, and as long as there wasn't a direct bus available at the time, you could book a journey on it with in a certain zone usually to a bus or metro station. They should look at bringing it back, using Sprinters or even electric minibuses.
If anyone needs reminding of a Link Up Bus, this is one of them not long after the service was launched - https://www.flickr.com/photos/gjm-photog...9857304481
(28 Jul 2022, 5:25 pm)V514DFT wrote Whos idea was that for the 41,its bloody barmy,so when extending to Howdon,it goes as far as Tynemouth Road,then turns into the 41A then goes to Simonside Terrace,Savory Road,then Archer street,then goes back on itself still as the 41A,also i dont know if plans changed since the article,or an error on the timetable,but when i got off the bus on the first stop on Coniston Road,i just happened to look at the timetable out of curiosity,and it said it was due at 17 and 47 past the hour,but on the GNE article it said it was going to extend to Howdon hourlyIt was odd they never mentioned the 41A would go to Howdon. So now your getting on a 41A from Howdon having to go via Wiltshire Drive at the same time
(28 Jul 2022, 6:39 pm)Aaron21 wrote It was odd they never mentioned the 41A would go to Howdon. So now your getting on a 41A from Howdon having to go via Wiltshire Drive at the same time
(28 Jul 2022, 11:47 am)Andreos1 wrote Too often I'm told on here that I'm cynical or I've encouraged people to jump on the bandwagon of anti-GNE bias.
So here I am, coming up with realistic strategies or ideas that operators could use to not only benefit the population of Washington and its surrounding environs, but also the shareholders (obviously it would need to be implemented correctly and not some half arsed approach).
And now I'm being told my views are being clouded by rose tinted spectacles for suggesting improvements to the network beyond 7pm!
Forgive me if I don't want to join you on that race to the bottom or embrace the 'we know best' attitude, the negativity and the stagnation that seems to permiate out of the bowels of the corporate ivory towers.
On a slightly connected note, I was following a Facebook thread about bus driver wage increases in Bristol. All sorts of suggestions about what could be done differently (all from a passenger perspective and totally valuable to any operator), yet one of the first on the scene was a guy who denounced other peoples knowledge of bus operations and admitted to working in the industry for 40 odd years.
A quick check on his bio showed the companies he had worked for. To be honest, if I was him, I'd not really shout about my senior roles working in a failing sector and how ineffective I'd been in halting or slowing the decline in routes, passenger numbers and a series of failed services.
But he knew more than each of the paying passengers. Apparently.
Any industry that has people with that sort of attitude, isn't going to sustain itself. As we see locally and at times, on this very forum. A shame.
(28 Jul 2022, 7:06 pm)Washingtonian wrote That sums it up really well to be honest. These days there never seems to be anything innovative from bus companies that will genuinely make using the bus as a seriously attractive alternative to the car. All we hear is, "Oh well, theres not enough people using our services, so lets just cut them!". The last few years worth of major service changes have seen nothing but cuts. People have commented on here about there being not enough demand for bus services on an evening and that the cuts are justified, but this will force even more people into cars and will eventually effect day time service loadings too as they will use the car all the time instead. And with the price of bus tickets and the cost of fuel running a car, it is simply not feasible to use a combination of both from a financial view.That's the thing. Those fare offers GNE offered were good on paper. But absolutely of no use to anyone who didn't have a service.
The approach to the decline in bus use should surely be, "How can we win passangers back and keep them coming back?" Take evenings for example, there is no excuse not to have a lower fare price where and when the service is being subsidised - something like £1 return ticket anywhere in your town or £3 unlimited travel anywhere in Tyne and Wear after 7pm etc. I would be tempted to use the bus if I was going somewhere on an evening if something like this was in place as well as having a frequent enough service. I'm sure other people would be interested in this if they were going out for a meal or to the cinema somewhere on an evening. Bus companies have to ask themselves, What's better? Staying in the status quo of decline, or trying something new to try and win more passengers?
(28 Jul 2022, 6:56 pm)Aaron21 wrote Well it got extended to Howdon for a reason. Unless it's to compete with Stagecoach 317 but highly doubt thatI assume that it’s a Nexus plan to extend the 41/41A to Howdon (in response to complaints about loss of links from Battle Hill to there) and that Nexus are paying GNE to do it.
. Massive contradictory comment from a bus operator.
(29 Jul 2022, 9:19 pm)Storx wrote https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...s-24615294
Someone on here will like one of the quotes in that (in the paragraph below the 2nd picture)
South Tyneside councillor Paul Dean raised concerns that consultation on the Go North East cuts had been inadequate, but Mr Gilbert replied the fact that more than 9,000 responses had been received was proof of its scope. The bus chief, who also chairs local bus operators’ association NEBus, said companies were facing “huge challenges” from the cost of living crisis, road congestion caused by rising traffic levels that slows down buses, and staffing shortages.
(29 Jul 2022, 9:47 pm)Andreos1 wrote This paragraph?Let’s be honest, poster boy martijn has been quite the hatchet man . RIP Northern General.
I mean aye, there's obviously a reason there's rising traffic levels. Despite the cost of living crisis and rising fuel costs.
Can't quite put my finger on why car usage is increasing though.
Lack of buses perhaps? A network that's not fit for purpose and doesn't take people where they need to be? Titivations not working?
But imagine making all those changes based on a 9000 survey response rate? An entire network decimated and tax payer bailouts propping other parts up - based on 13% of the population of Washington responding...
(29 Jul 2022, 10:41 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote 5/9/24/26 interwork. At Jarrow I think a 5 changes to a 9 and a 9 changes to a 5. What bus were you waiting for?I believe it goes
(29 Jul 2022, 9:47 pm)Andreos1 wrote This paragraph?
I mean aye, there's obviously a reason there's rising traffic levels. Despite the cost of living crisis and rising fuel costs.
Can't quite put my finger on why car usage is increasing though.
Lack of buses perhaps? A network that's not fit for purpose and doesn't take people where they need to be? Titivations not working?
But imagine making all those changes based on a 9000 survey response rate? An entire network decimated and tax payer bailouts propping other parts up - based on 13% of the population of Washington responding...
(30 Jul 2022, 8:02 pm)Adrian wrote It was totally inadequate, not to mention the people it digitally excluded. For changes as significant as what was proposed, there should have been proper roadshows around the network, allowing people to ask questions and discuss the changes, not just enter comments against some vague proposals online.They state 175,000 journeys made on their bus services every day (source: https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/about-go-n...nce%201913&text=We%20are%20proud%20to%20employ,almost%20700%20buses%20and%20coaches.)
It's easy to brag about 9000 survey response rate, when you don't state what it is a comparator of. What is that as a percentage vs unique users? It shouldn't be difficult to establish unique customers, even just from contactless/QR scans.
(29 Jul 2022, 9:47 pm)Andreos1 wrote This paragraph?
I mean aye, there's obviously a reason there's rising traffic levels. Despite the cost of living crisis and rising fuel costs.
Can't quite put my finger on why car usage is increasing though.
Lack of buses perhaps? A network that's not fit for purpose and doesn't take people where they need to be? Titivations not working?
But imagine making all those changes based on a 9000 survey response rate? An entire network decimated and tax payer bailouts propping other parts up - based on 13% of the population of Washington responding...
(30 Jul 2022, 8:41 pm)V514DFT wrote Im sorry but MG doesnt half talk a load of cobblers at times,the shite he comes out with,he should be in politics
