(02 Aug 2022, 7:17 pm)TEN 6083 wrote

They’re starting to arrive


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Wonder what routes they'll be on

(02 Aug 2022, 7:38 pm)Unber43 wrote Wonder what routes they'll be on

In theory, predominantly the X14/15/18/20/21/22.

(02 Aug 2022, 7:40 pm)mb134 wrote In theory, predominantly the X14/15/18/20/21/22.

Well it's 19x so.....

- 3x X21/X22
- 5x X18
- 4x X15
- 4x X20
- 3x X14


Then for cascades / spares, should be........
- 7522 - 43 & 44/45 (already at Jesmond)
- 7524, 7525, 7526 - Ashington Spares
- 7527, 7528 - 43 & 44/45
- 7529-33 - 43 & 44/45
- 7553-56 - 43 & 44/45

Obviously temporary timetable currently in force for 43/44/45.

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What is the length of these? Will they be ZF or Voith?

Is there a reason recent ADL vehicles for GNE and now Arriva have been registered near the factory (YX/SK) rather than being registered with North East (NK) plates?

Is it just laziness or are there still delays with the DVLA that would affect that sort of thing?

I know it's a little thing, but having local plates to me gives a better impression, and not as if they're cast offs from another operator.

Another "new" bus for Northumbria is 2516, DX55 FXA, a Wright Cadet bodied DAF from Merseyside working on Blyth locals on Tuesday.

(02 Aug 2022, 10:02 pm)L469 YVK wrote Well it's 19x so.....

- 3x X21/X22
- 5x X18
- 4x X15
- 4x X20
- 3x X14


Then for cascades / spares, should be........
- 7522 - 43 & 44/45 (already at Jesmond)
- 7524, 7525, 7526 - Ashington Spares
- 7527, 7528 - 43 & 44/45
- 7529-33 - 43 & 44/45
- 7553-56 - 43 & 44/45

Obviously temporary timetable currently in force for 43/44/45.

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What is the length of these? Will they be ZF or Voith?

According to someone on Bustimes, 7510/11/12/15 from Ashington and 7508 from Jesmond are going to Belmont to replace 7410/13/15/85/90 - no idea if that's true or not. Wouldn't surprise me tho, Arriva have never done transfers in a logical fashion keeping fleet numbers together.

Probably picking the best out of what is an end-of-life fleet. The first and second batch of E400s are now approaching 15 years old - no doubt they'll attempt to keep them running beyond 20 like the B7TLs.

(02 Aug 2022, 10:02 pm)L469 YVK wrote Well it's 19x so.....

- 3x X21/X22
- 5x X18
- 4x X15
- 4x X20
- 3x X14

I'd say that alongside the E400s and E400MMCs already at Ashington, they'll all be pretty much the same specification once they've passed through the paint booths, so there wouldn't be any need to be specific about where they're going.

Kent have already started repainting their 2017 Sapphire E400MMCs, so hopefully it won't be long until everything around here is de-Sapphired and de-Maxed.

These new E400MMCs are fitted with Next Stop Announcements and USB charging as per the standard Arriva specification, not yet confirmed if they have ordered highbacked seating for these as they are up to the regions to specify.

(03 Aug 2022, 5:39 am)omnicity4659 wrote These new E400MMCs are fitted with Next Stop Announcements and USB charging as per the standard Arriva specification, not yet confirmed if they have ordered highbacked seating for these as they are up to the regions to specify.

Think they're low backed, to be honest with the amount of damaged/replaced headrests I've seen on Ashington buses recently I'm not surprised.

(03 Aug 2022, 5:39 am)omnicity4659 wrote I'd say that alongside the E400s and E400MMCs already at Ashington, they'll all be pretty much the same specification once they've passed through the paint booths, so there wouldn't be any need to be specific about where they're going.

Kent have already started repainting their 2017 Sapphire E400MMCs, so hopefully it won't be long until everything around here is de-Sapphired and de-Maxed.

These new E400MMCs are fitted with Next Stop Announcements and USB charging as per the standard Arriva specification, not yet confirmed if they have ordered highbacked seating for these as they are up to the regions to specify.

Ashington other than maybe 3x as spares, will lose the majority of their 'Classic E400MMC'.

But likelihood is the newer ones would get allocated to the X14/X15/X18/X20 due to the increased demands. Also, if these have ZF gearboxes as opposed to Voith (Arriva have chopped and changed in the past such as with B7TLS), then they'd be best suited to those routes anyways.

(03 Aug 2022, 6:15 am)L469 YVK wrote Ashington other than maybe 3x as spares, will lose the majority of their 'Classic E400MMC'.

But likelihood is the newer ones would get allocated to the X14/X15/X18/X20 due to the increased demands. Also, if these have ZF gearboxes as opposed to Voith (Arriva have chopped and changed in the past such as with B7TLS), then they'd be best suited to those routes anyways.

They'll realistically need to be keeping a few more than 3. 

Current decker PVRs are:
X14 - 3
X15 - 4
X18 - 5
X20 - 2
X21/22 - 15
35 - 5
Total: 34 

Exclude 12 on the X21/22 for the current MMCs, leaves you with 22 boards to cover with the 19 new vehicles. You still need spare deckers, so realistically you need 5-6 current E400s staying if the spare current percentages of the other vehicle types stay the same.

(03 Aug 2022, 6:46 am)mb134 wrote They'll realistically need to be keeping a few more than 3. 

Current decker PVRs are:
X14 - 3
X15 - 4
X18 - 5
X20 - 2
X21/22 - 15 
35 - 5
Total: 34 

Exclude 12 on the X21/22 for the current MMCs, leaves you with 22 boards to cover with the 19 new vehicles. You still need spare deckers, so realistically you need 5-6 current E400s staying if the spare current percentages of the other vehicle types stay the same.

So really 7524/5/6/7/8 can still stay at Ashington, which aligns with that they're being painted to match the new E400MMCs - if they're going to be specific with where they're used then I guess 7524-8 will be used on the 35.

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(03 Aug 2022, 6:06 am)mb134 wrote Think they're low backed, to be honest with the amount of damaged/replaced headrests I've seen on Ashington buses recently I'm not surprised.

Ideally they should have replaced all the Sapphire seating and Max headrests with the dark blue pleather as they have done elsewhere so that replacements don't stand out like a sore thumb. The problems experienced nationally with headrests are mainly down to long wait times and the high costs of replacement branded headrests.

Headrests are preferable in my opinion as they provide a bit more separation between passengers, as well as a tad more back comfort.

(03 Aug 2022, 7:39 am)omnicity4659 wrote So really 7524/5/6/7/8 can still stay at Ashington, which aligns with that they're being painted to match the new E400MMCs - if they're going to be specific with where they're used then I guess 7524-8 will be used on the 35.

7522 - 7528 - 43/44/45 with the ex Liverpool Pulsar's filling the allocation
7529 - 7533 - X46
7553 - 7556 - 35
7514/7516/7517 - Ashington Spares

That would make more sense imo. Other than Redcar for the X93 Summer extras, all the B7's are gone. Taking a pick out of 7501 - 7507 / 7509 replacing the battered B7's at Jesmond. Not sure what could do the Redcar buses.

Is there really much of a cost savings going for the low back chairs?

I'm not particularly tall and I genuinely find the low back chairs intolerable since they only go half way up my back, even the high back V3s stop just short of my neck!

(03 Aug 2022, 9:17 am)streetdeckfan wrote Is there really much of a cost savings going for the low back chairs?

I'm not particularly tall and I genuinely find the low back chairs intolerable since they only go half way up my back, even the high back V3s stop just short of my neck!

Arriva have been using high backed V3s since Operation Overdrive/Viva North East in 2004, with them becoming even more popular from 2013 onwards - never been a major problem with them until now it seems? Not really sure what going backwards will achieve apart from less comfort on routes that already compete heavily with the car...

(02 Aug 2022, 11:34 pm)N391OTY wrote Another "new" bus for Northumbria is 2516, DX55 FXA, a Wright Cadet bodied DAF from Merseyside working on Blyth locals on Tuesday.

If that's not a loan, I'm sure it will end up in Durham, before long.

Just had photo confirmation that these are base Arriva spec and haven't been ordered with headrests. Quite poor really.

(03 Aug 2022, 9:58 pm)omnicity4659 wrote Just had photo confirmation that these are base Arriva spec and haven't been ordered with headrests. Quite poor really.

They're the X66/East Durham Explorer type seats, which personally I don't mind, its the East Gateshead Loop ones which I really hate. However for long journeys I'd imagine they would be quite uncomfortable anyone know what type of seat, leather or fabric?

Also it seems the headrest situation has gotton quite bad I've seen numerous mentions of it, when I have been on the X1 where the wireless chargers are some of them were snapped, Disgraceful.

(03 Aug 2022, 9:58 pm)omnicity4659 wrote Just had photo confirmation that these are base Arriva spec and haven't been ordered with headrests. Quite poor really.

Not ideal but better than nothing in the current climate.

My question is have Arriva equipped these with ZF or Voith now S/S is available on both? The latter is an interesting one given the comments that even GNE's 6 Cylinder StreetDeck doesn't seem well geared to higher speeds unless that's due to the Merc engine?

But saying that, plenty of well known binge drinking gas guzzlers of the past including DB250s have also been equipped with Voith.

(03 Aug 2022, 10:33 pm)Unber43 wrote They're the X66/East Durham Explorer type seats, which personally I don't mind, its the East Gateshead Loop ones which I really hate. However for long journeys I'd imagine they would be quite uncomfortable anyone know what type of seat, leather or fabric?

Faux leather (plastic).

(03 Aug 2022, 10:40 pm)L469 YVK wrote Not ideal but better than nothing in the current climate.

Arriva and DB are multi-billion pound companies. "Current climate" is not an excuse to skimp on a few grand for extra comfort.

(03 Aug 2022, 9:26 am)omnicity4659 wrote Arriva have been using high backed V3s since Operation Overdrive/Viva North East in 2004, with them becoming even more popular from 2013 onwards - never been a major problem with them until now it seems? Not really sure what going backwards will achieve apart from less comfort on routes that already compete heavily with the car...

But if you look at Derwentside, Tyne Valley and Teesside / East Durham, has the 'extra comforts' worked there to wooo people out of their cars?

- X45/X46: 15 mins > 20 mins > 30 mins (X46 dropped)

- X70 dropped

- X30/X31: 15 mins > 20 mins > 30 mins

- X9/X10: 30 mins > 60 mins with X9 dropped

- X84/X85: X85 dropped, X84 reverted back to 684 with 'normal' buses

Now to be fair with Arriva, their Northumbria division is fairly strong but would they win extra passengers over with 'comforts'? Would be nice to have the comforts if climate allowed but I'm sure passengers will be happy knowing that Arriva are at least investing and keeping things reliable.

(03 Aug 2022, 10:40 pm)L469 YVK wrote Not ideal but better than nothing in the current climate.

My question is have Arriva equipped these with ZF or Voith now S/S is available on both? The latter is an interesting one given the comments that even GNE's 6 Cylinder StreetDeck doesn't seem well geared to higher speeds unless that's due to the Merc engine?

But saying that, plenty of well known binge drinking gas guzzlers of the past including DB250s have also been equipped with Voith.

When i was on the A1 with 6377 it was okay, it was better than the B5 and the OmniDekka I got earlier, however when I got a streetdeck it was worse then them both.

(03 Aug 2022, 10:47 pm)L469 YVK wrote But if you look at Derwentside, Tyne Valley and Teesside / East Durham, has the 'extra comforts' worked there to wooo people out of their cars?

- X45/X46: 15 mins > 20 mins > 30 mins (X46 dropped)

- X70 dropped

- X30/X31: 15 mins > 20 mins > 30 mins

- X9/X10: 30 mins > 60 mins with X9 dropped

- X84/X85: X85 dropped, X84 reverted back to 684 with 'normal' buses

Now to be fair with Arriva, their Northumbria division is fairly strong but would they win extra passengers over with 'comforts'? Would be nice to have the comforts if climate allowed but I'm sure passengers will be happy knowing that Arriva are at least investing and keeping things reliable.

In that case, then they may as well have just put plastic bucket seats in...? Buses without headrests are not appropriate on long journeys due to the pressure it adds to people's backs.

(03 Aug 2022, 11:06 pm)omnicity4659 wrote In that case, then they may as well have just put plastic bucket seats in...? Buses without headrests are not appropriate on long journeys due to the pressure it adds to people's backs.

I agree, I can survive an hour on them but anything over 90 mins and it gets uncomfortable hopefully the seat material will be more comfortable to try and help. 

But they are brand new buses, they should be High Spec and basic highspec is Headrests, I love how they add USB's but headrests are too far. 

Arriva are due to E200MMC's if Im not wrong it will be interesting to see whether they have high back seats or similar to the ones which the new E400MMC have.

(03 Aug 2022, 11:12 pm)Unber43 wrote I agree, I can survive an hour on them but anything over 90 mins and it gets uncomfortable hopefully the seat material will be more comfortable to try and help. 

But they are brand new buses, they should be High Spec and basic highspec is Headrests, I love how they add USB's but headrests are too far. 

Arriva are due to E200MMC's if Im not wrong it will be interesting to see whether they have high back seats or similar to the ones which the new E400MMC have.

They'll also have Civic V2 seats, like the E400MMCs.

(03 Aug 2022, 10:50 pm)Unber43 wrote When i was on the A1 with 6377 it was okay, it was better than the B5 and the OmniDekka I got earlier, however when I got a streetdeck it was worse then them both.

6337 is very much overrated IMO.
Don't get me wrong, it's a lovely bus, but it has pretty much the same limitations as the regular 4 cylinder StreetDeck in that it's really not set up for anything other than town driving. To me, with the gearbox that it's fitted with it's more suited to very hilly cities rather than wide open roads. While 4th gear is pretty tall, you can really tell it's starting run out of revs once it hits 50, an extra gear or two really would go a long way. There's a reason the B5s and E400MMCs don't have a 4 speed gearbox!

Maybe now it's broken in it'll be better since it was only a few weeks old last time I tried it?

(04 Aug 2022, 4:31 am)streetdeckfan wrote To me, with the gearbox that it's fitted with it's more suited to very hilly cities rather than wide open roads. While 4th gear is pretty tall, you can really tell it's starting run out of revs once it hits 50, an extra gear or two really would go a long way. There's a reason the B5s and E400MMCs don't have a 4 speed gearbox!

Maybe now it's broken in it'll be better since it was only a few weeks old last time I tried it?

Ironically, GNE (although I suppose ZF isn't too bad) have ZF in their E400MMCs whereas Voith would be at home on Lobley Hill Bank, Consett Road and Dunston Bank.

(04 Aug 2022, 5:27 am)L469 YVK wrote Ironically, GNE (although I suppose ZF isn't too bad) have ZF in their E400MMCs whereas Voith would be at home on Lobley Hill Bank, Consett Road and Dunston Bank.

It's a shame the StreetDecks aren't available with a wider range of gearbox options like the E400MMC, while the unit fitted is probably enough for most local routes, I think having one with an even taller top gear that allows it to sit at lower revs at 50mph would really broaden the appeal. The engine certainly seems to me like it has the power to be able cope with it

(03 Aug 2022, 10:46 pm)omnicity4659 wrote Arriva and DB are multi-billion pound companies. "Current climate" is not an excuse to skimp on a few grand for extra comfort.

So you're just ignoring the current financial situation of bus operators? Constantly replacing headrests due to vandalism is not a great use of money, it's likely not about the initial outlay (which over the course of a 15 year life will amount to pennies).

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(03 Aug 2022, 11:06 pm)omnicity4659 wrote In that case, then they may as well have just put plastic bucket seats in...? Buses without headrests are not appropriate on long journeys due to the pressure it adds to people's backs.

I've done countless 1h+ journeys on Pulsars with Civic V2 seating in recently, while I miss the extra sense of privacy given by headrests I genuinely noticed no difference in comfort. Looking around the E400 I'm on this morning, I can't see a single person sitting upright who is even touching the headrest (those who are slouched, different story, and that's arguably going to do more to someone's back...).

I'm not that fussed about headrests that have had other people's heads on them.