Guess it all depends on the interworking patterns, not sure there's enough time to do 52 -> 54 -> 53 and reverse without changing elsewhere maybe we might see some odd interworking patterns rather than just the 306/308.

Guess it all depends whether the 43/44/45, X7/X8/X9 and 52/53/54 are kept together.

Maybe we could see changes at Haymarket ie the X7/X9 interworking with the 44/45 instead for just a random example using deckers. Then the X8 interworking with something else, maybe the 54 with singles etc.

43 working from Morpeth with Ashington drivers.

52/53 also moving to Ashington working from Cramlington (there's already an early 52 that runs from Ashington and returns at night).

There's lots that could potentially happen now they've scrapped MAX / Sapphire.

Could get rid of the 30 minutes Sat in Tynemouth doing nothing on an evening by interworking the evening 306 & 308

Blyth: 00:33
Newcastle: 01:36
Newcastle: 01:42
Tynemouth: 02:23
Tynemouth: 02:24
Newcastle: 03:06
Newcastle: 03:12
Blyth: 04:13

That would give the same evening PVR but scrap the long layover at Tynemouth.....and improve evening reliability on the 308 as some journeys do have a tendancy to run 5-10 mins late on busier nights. And the 308 would get extra running time too as would the 306.

Rumour on the grapevine is Darlington are due to receive 14 ADL E200 to replace aging solos at the depot, speaking to an engineer at the depot it should be 2701-2714 from Jesmond. Ones landing for familiarisation On Monday 10th October

Rumour on the grapevine is Darlington are due to receive 14 ADL E200 to replace aging solos at the depot, speaking to an engineer at the depot it should be 2701-2714 from Jesmond. Ones landing for familiarisation On Monday 10th October

If this is True then arriva must be trying to Oust all Optare solo's from the fleet

If this is True then arriva must be trying to Oust all Optare solo's from the fleet

how can they oust Solos from the fleet by transferring vehicles...that have already replaced Solos?

the transfer of 2701-14 from Northumbria doesn't make any sense, as they pretty much cover the Northumbria midibus PVR post-reductions later this month.

Rumour on the grapevine is Darlington are due to receive 14 ADL E200 to replace aging solos at the depot, speaking to an engineer at the depot it should be 2701-2714 from Jesmond. Ones landing for familiarisation On Monday 10th October

How would that work out with the current routes 2701 - 14 are used on? What would be used on them routes if these buses moved to Darlington?

how can they oust Solos from the fleet by transferring vehicles...that have already replaced Solos?

the transfer of 2701-14 from Northumbria doesn't make any sense, as they pretty much cover the Northumbria midibus PVR post-reductions later this month.

If true, I'd imagine the Northumbria midibus routes will be converted to conventional operation. 

51 - given the withdrawal of the 51A, conversion to single decks could make sense. Current 46/51 PVR is 5, this will possibly reduce the 51 standalone PVR to 2/3?

55 - reduction to every 30 minutes would make an easy case for slightly larger vehicles, again single deckers would make sense. PVR would be 2, down from 3. 

57/A - have borderline justified single deckers with passenger loadings for a good while as far as I've seen - were some of the quickest routes to recover post-Covid, hence the decker allocation after the first lockdown. 

With interworking of the 51/55, and depending on the re-route of the 51, you could possibly interwork those for a combined PVR of 4. Given the 553/555 can be operated with 2601-3/2837, you could essentially remove all 9 E200s from Jesmond and replace them with 4 saloons with the service cuts. 

In total it would be 14 E200s to Darlington, with 8 Pulsars needed (let's say 9 to include a spare). As far as I can remember, 2x Ashington Pulsars were put into reserve following the arrival of the new buses, as well as 4x Jesmond ones. Let's say, for sake of argument, that the 685 transfers to Stagecoach operation - there's the final 3.

Appears to have been confirmed that some or all of 2852-61 will be part of the swap - they will be used on the 55 and 57/57a while the 51 will be upgraded to single decker operation when operation moves to Blyth at the end of the month.

Appears to have been confirmed that some or all of 2852-61 will be part of the swap - they will be used on the 55 and 57/57a while the 51 will be upgraded to single decker operation when operation moves to Blyth at the end of the month.

That's absolutely bonkers.

Wasn't the point of the E200's for the Euro 6 zone so unless the 55 is getting scrapped before the end of the year then they're no further forward...

Unless there's another order on the cards.

Seems rather pointless to take the solos off, with the arrival of the E200's,only for them to be replaced with solos

I'd say that the 59 plate Solos have a slightly better interior than the 08 plates.

But to deliver brand new buses with all the features to routes that have run with the dregs of the fleet for years, just to remove them two months later is bizarre.

i do need to apologies about my previous post about Arriva ousting solos, i go miss understood two pieces of information and those being i thought another batch of 14 ADL E200MMC'S where coming and i didnt take on fully that they were from jesmond i apologies. this will teach me not to skim read things next time

I'd say that the 59 plate Solos have a slightly better interior than the 08 plates.

But to deliver brand new buses with all the features to routes that have run with the dregs of the fleet for years, just to remove them two months later is bizarre.

To be honest the main issue with the Solos, especially those at Ashington, was the horrendous reliability. Everything was going wrong with them, drivers hated driving them, and yeah they were also grim inside. 59 plates aren't going to solve any of that - the E200s solved it all.

To be honest the main issue with the Solos, especially those at Ashington, was the horrendous reliability. Everything was going wrong with them, drivers hated driving them, and yeah they were also grim inside. 59 plates aren't going to solve any of that - the E200s solved it all.

To be fair the bigger issue is the CAZ. Unless the 55 is getting withdrawn in 2 months then they need 3 buses from somewhere regardless unless they commit to an order beforehand to sort it as I can't see the 59 plate Solo's getting mods.

Wonder if there might be plans for a second batch at some point in the new year which has been flipped with it coming North instead depending on what happens with the 55 with Darlington getting all 14 now to oust the remainder of the 08/58 scraps out who to be fair are desperate for investment and having a mix of Enviro 200's and Solo's on the same routes is a bit of a marketing nightmare.

Or alternatively order a batch of midibuses which are 10.5m or so for the 1, 2, 55 and 57/57A and get arid of the two small fleets of Pulsars and minibuses to allow a bit more flexibility especially since the 1 and 2 probably don't need full length singles either.

To be fair the bigger issue is the CAZ. Unless the 55 is getting withdrawn in 2 months then they need 3 buses from somewhere regardless unless they commit to an order beforehand to sort it as I can't see the 59 plate Solo's getting mods.

Wonder if there might be plans for a second batch at some point in the new year which has been flipped with it coming North instead depending on what happens with the 55 with Darlington getting all 14 now to oust the remainder of the 08/58 scraps out who to be fair are desperate for investment and having a mix of Enviro 200's and Solo's on the same routes is a bit of a marketing nightmare.

Or alternatively order a batch of midibuses which are 10.5m or so for the 1, 2, 55 and 57/57A and get arid of the two small fleets of Pulsars and minibuses to allow a bit more flexibility especially since the 1 and 2 probably don't need full length singles either.

Saw the 55 the otherday and it was empty, at a time you'd think it would be busy

Saw the 55 the otherday and it was empty, at a time you'd think it would be busy

Yeah it's an odd one I can't see it or the 553 lasting long as they don't seem to be interworking with anything. It's going to be literally roughly an hour round trip for drivers from Ashington I can't see it working from anywhere else. 

Unless it carries decent loads that's a canny overhead to be carrying.

2706 is the first E200 to transfer to Darlington, I passed it on the A1 yesterday morning.


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The E200s are moving because they are bottoming out on various parts of the midibus routes in Newcastle. There are staff notices up about it.

The Ashington batch are also moving to keep the entire lot together from an engineering point of view, which makes complete sense if you ask me.

Not to mention, Arriva have been getting some stick in their Darlington operations lately, this is a clear headline of intent to keep the politicians happy.

The E200s are moving because they are bottoming out on various parts of the midibus routes in Newcastle. There are staff notices up about it.

The Ashington batch are also moving to keep the entire lot together from an engineering point of view, which makes complete sense if you ask me.

Not to mention, Arriva have been getting some stick in their Darlington operations lately, this is a clear headline of intent to keep the politicians happy.

The hell is the 51/55/57/57A gonna use or have they forgotten the 51/55 go into Newcastle. Has to be a euro6 bus

The E200s are moving because they are bottoming out on various parts of the midibus routes in Newcastle. There are staff notices up about it.

The Ashington batch are also moving to keep the entire lot together from an engineering point of view, which makes complete sense if you ask me.

Not to mention, Arriva have been getting some stick in their Darlington operations lately, this is a clear headline of intent to keep the politicians happy.

Bodes well for the CAZ then.

Taking the Ashington ones away makes zero sense if that's the logic. They'll be replaced by, having also replaced, a batch of Solo's which will also be oddballs at Ashington... Solo's which, evidently, are increasingly unreliable - as well as being horrendous from a driver and passenger POV. Again, makes perfect sense.

Bodes well for the CAZ then.

Taking the Ashington ones away makes zero sense if that's the logic. They'll be replaced by, having also replaced, a batch of Solo's which will also be oddballs at Ashington... Solo's which, evidently, are increasingly unreliable - as well as being horrendous from a driver and passenger POV. Again, makes perfect sense.

Is there any single deckers coming from any other Arriva area which are Euro 6 and due to be replaced.

If the Durham/Darlington ones are busier I don't necessarily disagree, as it is more/even profitable. Or are the MiniBus routes just being cut.

Bodes well for the CAZ then.

Taking the Ashington ones away makes zero sense if that's the logic. They'll be replaced by, having also replaced, a batch of Solo's which will also be oddballs at Ashington... Solo's which, evidently, are increasingly unreliable - as well as being horrendous from a driver and passenger POV. Again, makes perfect sense.

Assuming the 55 will be going to Ashington from the 30th October so guessing they want the batch together. Kind of makes sense than having an oddball batch of Solo's and Enviro's at Ashington (there's no space for minibuses under the Blyth redevelopment plans).

Wasn't they talk of investment in the Southern depots on here next year anyway, maybe it'll be going to Ashington instead of potentially Darlington. Not sure what mind, short Streetlite's maybe? since Optare buses have gone out of favour with Arriva.

Assuming the 55 will be going to Ashington from the 30th October so guessing they want the batch together. Kind of makes sense than having an oddball batch of Solo's and Enviro's at Ashington (there's no space for minibuses under the Blyth redevelopment plans).

No services are moving to Ashington at the end of October, so the 55 will need Euro 6 vehicles ahead of moving to Ashington (i.e not Solo's) if that is where it's moving to.

Assuming the 55 will be going to Ashington from the 30th October so guessing they want the batch together. Kind of makes sense than having an oddball batch of Solo's and Enviro's at Ashington (there's no space for minibuses under the Blyth redevelopment plans).

Wasn't they talk of investment in the Southern depots on here next year anyway, maybe it'll be going to Ashington instead of potentially Darlington. Not sure what mind, short Streetlite's maybe? since Optare buses have gone out of favour with Arriva.

As grounding is the primary issue here, it makes sense to move the E200s asap to prevent damage. Darlington is the obvious place to put them due to the large number of elderly Solos deployed there. Clearly the movement of Solos to Ashington will be a temporary measure to enable service delivery.  It would seem to follow that Euro 6 stock will be required from somewhere to satisfy CAZ requirements and there is sure to be a plan for this.. Meanwhile, Darlington has gained a partial early upgrade, something that was needed and had to be on the cards anyway, due to the age and condition of the 08 Solos. It stands to reason that further investment is going to have to follow to resolve the Ashington problem and to complete the required transition at Darlington. Arriva can only keep the knackered old stock going for so long after all,

As grounding is the primary issue here, it makes sense to move the E200s asap to prevent damage. Darlington is the obvious place to put them due to the large number of elderly Solos deployed there. Clearly the movement of Solos to Ashington will be a temporary measure to enable service delivery.  It would seem to follow that Euro 6 stock will be required from somewhere to satisfy CAZ requirements and there is sure to be a plan for this.. Meanwhile, Darlington has gained a partial early upgrade, something that was needed and had to be on the cards anyway, due to the age and condition of the 08 Solos. It stands to reason that further investment is going to have to follow to resolve the Ashington problem and to complete the required transition at Darlington. Arriva can only keep the knackered old stock going for so long after all,

You worry about the ability to get suitable Euro 6 stock in place for January(?) though, given how long vehicle orders are taking to be delivered across the country.

The reliability of the 57 in the meantime is also a worry, it was crippled with the previous allocation of Solos so you wonder how it'll be any better with these - I understand moving the Jesmond ones if they're confident on securing E6 vehicles by January, but surely keep the Ashington ones there until suitable replacements can be sourced given previous issues?

No services are moving to Ashington at the end of October, so the 55 will need Euro 6 vehicles ahead of moving to Ashington (i.e not Solo's) if that is where it's moving to.

Not necessarily, there's an exception clause in the CAZ that you can continue to run vehicles that don't hit the criteria as long as there's an order in so as long as there's an order in for something Euro 6 then they can run them indefinitely.

https://www.breathe-cleanair.com/exemptions

"Vehicles awaiting replacement or retrofitting, where evidence is supplied that a compliant vehicle has been ordered or proof that the vehicle has been accepted for retrofitting by an approved supplier and is awaiting work to take place."

As grounding is the primary issue here, it makes sense to move the E200s asap to prevent damage. Darlington is the obvious place to put them due to the large number of elderly Solos deployed there. Clearly the movement of Solos to Ashington will be a temporary measure to enable service delivery.  It would seem to follow that Euro 6 stock will be required from somewhere to satisfy CAZ requirements and there is sure to be a plan for this.. Meanwhile, Darlington has gained a partial early upgrade, something that was needed and had to be on the cards anyway, due to the age and condition of the 08 Solos. It stands to reason that further investment is going to have to follow to resolve the Ashington problem and to complete the required transition at Darlington. Arriva can only keep the knackered old stock going for so long after all,

Yeah totally agreed, I wouldn't be surprised if there's not a second order anyway which gets shot of all the Solo's bar the 11/61 plate. Durham still have a few lingering on which badly need to go aswell tbh and Arriva seem to be one of the big operators actually buying buses atm which is rather ironic.

At the end of the day, the transfer does make sense. Clearly Arriva have decided to rationalise the minibus network in Newcastle as a result of Jesmond closing. With the 46 going and the 51 moving to full size buses you're only looking at the 55 which is 2/3 buses max. What happens with the 55 come CAZ remains to be seen. I reckon it could stay 30 minutes full time and interwork with something, or end up withdrawn as well. The 57/57A, while I appreciate there may be reliability issues with the Solo's there, you're gonna get reliability issues with the Solo's anywhere. Darlington has a large Solo fleet and there's nothing else for the E200's made surplus at Jesmond to go on. It makes sense to upgrade the Darlo locals and keep the MMC's together. Plus Ashington has just gotten all the double deckers so not like it's deprived of investment.

Not necessarily, there's an exception clause in the CAZ that you can continue to run vehicles that don't hit the criteria as long as there's an order in so as long as there's an order in for something Euro 6 then they can run them indefinitely.

https://www.breathe-cleanair.com/exemptions

"Vehicles awaiting replacement or retrofitting, where evidence is supplied that a compliant vehicle has been ordered or proof that the vehicle has been accepted for retrofitting by an approved supplier and is awaiting work to take place."


Yeah totally agreed, I wouldn't be surprised if there's not a second order anyway which gets shot of all the Solo's bar the 11/61 plate. Durham still have a few lingering on which badly need to go aswell tbh and Arriva seem to be one of the big operators actually buying buses atm which is rather ironic.

Forgot about that - guess it'll help give them time to work out what isn't going to ground out. I know that ANE aren't the only operator to have issues with the E200MMCs design in terms of clearance, First Aberdeen also have issues with theirs (https://flic.kr/p/2mgP81f) for example, so the Streetlite DF may be an option

While it is good to see the investment, it is going to be needed sooner rather than later as more CAZs inevitably spring up. Would imagine the target will be to rid the fleet of all Solo's and B7TLs by next year if the rumours of planned investment in ADC are true?

Would be interesting to know where they are suffering the grounding out issues considering they've operated Mini Pointer Darts of similar length across the Northumbria area for many years without issues.

 The 57/57A, while I appreciate there may be reliability issues with the Solo's there, you're gonna get reliability issues with the Solo's anywhere. Darlington has a large Solo fleet and there's nothing else for the E200's made surplus at Jesmond to go on. It makes sense to upgrade the Darlo locals and keep the MMC's together. Plus Ashington has just gotten all the double deckers so not like it's deprived of investment.

The main issue with the Solo reliability on the 57 is the length and frequency of the service though. Most of the Darlington minibus routes are reasonably frequent as far as I can remember, and are reasonably close to base should an issue develop. The 57 goes approximately 20 miles away from it's depot, and if there's an issue at the southern end the next run is definitely not running - so you're then leaving folk with a 2 hour gap in the service. 

I don't disagree with Darlington needing theirs replaced, I just question the logic of returning life expired vehicles to a route that they were struggling to operate reliably.