Well as its a quiet Sunday morning I thought I would round up our orders for this year... Most of these have been mentioned and/or hinted at on various Facebook groups already.

10 VDL Pulsar - Stockton -Service 5/5A (Sapphire spec)
14 VDL Pulsar - Redcar/Whitby - Service X3/X4/4 (Sapphire spec)
8 VDL Pulsar - Jesmond - Service 306
5 VDL Pulsar - Darlington - Service 1/5 (may go to Durham svc 23)
6 ADL Enviro 400 - Ashington - Service X21/X22 (Sapphire spec)
6 unknown double deck -Ashington/Alnwick -Service X18

Total 49

This should enable us to bin what's left of the Prestiges and make a good start on the Darts too, especially with so many Solos freed up by cascades.
X21/X22 Sapphire will be also getting 8 E400 refurbished, likely to be 7514-21

Well as its a quiet Sunday morning I thought I would round up our orders for this year... Most of these have been mentioned and/or hinted at on various Facebook groups already.

10 VDL Pulsar - Stockton -Service 5/5A (Sapphire spec)
14 VDL Pulsar - Redcar/Whitby - Service X3/X4/4 (Sapphire spec)
8 VDL Pulsar - Jesmond - Service 306
5 VDL Pulsar - Darlington - Service 1/5 (may go to Durham svc 23)
6 ADL Enviro 400 - Ashington - Service X21/X22 (Sapphire spec)
6 unknown double deck -Ashington/Alnwick -Service X18

Total 49

This should enable us to bin what's left of the Prestiges and make a good start on the Darts too, especially with so many Solos freed up by cascades.
X21/X22 Sapphire will be also getting 8 E400 refurbished, likely to be 7514-21

E400's? The only reason Arriva are probably getting them is because they've got them on the cheap after 7510's going up in flames! Arriva should've made the most of the last year of Euro 5 and put an order in for some Volvo B9TL Gemini 2's with 310bhp. They're far better than them rubbish turbocharged E400's and are pure workhorses! Out of the 34 that GNE had in service before they ordered a further 34, there's only been a few minor problems on the TTX batch and only one has had to be sent for a warranty repair. Arriva should've ordered 37 for the X10, X11, X15, X18, X21 and X22.

I agree there, seems very odd that they are getting E400's? Surely even VDL Gemini 2's would have done the job? Wonder why they ordered them?

Speaking of which; this is going to cause a heavy shuffle around of new vehicles? I wonder how true my idea of bringing Temsa's to Durham is? Probably quite likely......

I agree there, seems very odd that they are getting E400's? Surely even VDL Gemini 2's would have done the job? Wonder why they ordered them?

E400s are still available with Euro5 engines (along with the rest of the Enviro range, Optare vehicles with Cummins engines and Wright Streetlites) due to the UK National Small Series Type Approval which allows each of the stated manufacturers to build vehicles to Euro5 specifications for an order of no more than 250. As Volvo, VDL, Mercedes, Scania and MAN don't have UK-based plants, they can only take orders to Euro6 (hence First have a complete Volvo-free bus order book this year with just 6 Volvo coaches with Plaxton bodywork on order). Hence the reason for no Geminis for Arriva, the DB300 no longer exists at Euro6 as Wright have gone from a semi-integral (effectively the chassis under the Gemini is 90% VDL and 10% Wright) to a full integral with a Mercedes engine (the Streetdeck).

Speaking of which; this is going to cause a heavy shuffle around of new vehicles? I wonder how true my idea of bringing Temsa's to Durham is? Probably quite likely......

12 Temsas will be leaving Redcar depot later this year I understand - Redcar will be keeping 4715-20, 4701-6 and 4707/9-13 will transfer to two depots, Durham being one of those mentioned at present.

12 Temsas will be leaving Redcar depot later this year I understand - Redcar will be keeping 4715-20, 4701-6 and 4707/9-13 will transfer to two depots, Durham being one of those mentioned at present.

Iv'e never being on a Temsa, are they any good?

I think there may be an element of keeping the brand the same across the 2 services with ordering some new vehicles to go along with existing vehicles in the fleet. They haven't had major issues operating on the Ashington expresses so I don't forsee any problems with operating new E400s on the X21/X22?! Seems to be a one man crusade from a few angles against E400s.

Dennis Trident 2 based vehicles have always been rubbish:

- 7430 to 7435 couldn't cope on the 602 and Arriva had to bring in a batch of Volvo B10BLE's from Scotland. They then went to Blyth on the 308 and again, couldn't cope. Finally at Jesmond, they could only work Monday to Saturday daytime on the 306 and because they were worn they were when only 5 year old, Palatine 2's and Volvo B10BLE's had to operate the evening and Sunday 306 journeys to give the ALX400's a rest.

- GNE 3801 to 3804 ; 3858 to 3879 had to get the temperature sensors removed when new due to the fact that they constantly overheated. They struggled on several routes. They couldn't cope with thw Coaster extension to Kibblesworth / Wrekenton. They couldn't cope on the Angel when CLS gave Percy Main some Omnicities in exchange for the Lolynes. Ex London castoffs have to be brought up to replace the Lolynes. Lolynes have had trouble on the X25 and can't cope with the route.

- SNEW NK07 HBL went up in smoke in Killingworth as did Arriva's 7510 in Felton.

- Arriva 7501 to 7506 struggled on the 308 and literally crawled up the slip roads on the Coast Road. They were sluggish and they were requiring heavy maintenace at only 3 year old.
[/quote]

Well as its a quiet Sunday morning I thought I would round up our orders for this year... Most of these have been mentioned and/or hinted at on various Facebook groups already.

10 VDL Pulsar - Stockton -Service 5/5A (Sapphire spec)
14 VDL Pulsar - Redcar/Whitby - Service X3/X4/4 (Sapphire spec)
8 VDL Pulsar - Jesmond - Service 306
5 VDL Pulsar - Darlington - Service 1/5 (may go to Durham svc 23)
6 ADL Enviro 400 - Ashington - Service X21/X22 (Sapphire spec)
6 unknown double deck -Ashington/Alnwick -Service X18

Total 49

This should enable us to bin what's left of the Prestiges and make a good start on the Darts too, especially with so many Solos freed up by cascades.
X21/X22 Sapphire will be also getting 8 E400 refurbished, likely to be 7514-21

Interesting that 2 routes that always used to need deckers will be all single deck operated with the new arrivals

Interesting that 2 routes that always used to need deckers will be all single deck operated with the new arrivals

How many more passengers can be carried on deckers?

GNE's Tens 85 total including standees against Arriva's 685 Scanias 77 including standees.

Hardly seems worth it . . .

How many more passengers can be carried on deckers?

GNE's Tens 85 total including standees against Arriva's 685 Scanias 77 including standees.

Hardly seems worth it . . .

If it means 8 passengers aren't being left behind at a bus stop, then it definitely does seem worth it in my eyes...

How many more passengers can be carried on deckers?

GNE's Tens 85 total including standees against Arriva's 685 Scanias 77 including standees.

Hardly seems worth it . . .

Fair point but thinking of the customer experience I would rather be on the GNE 10 as opposed to being one of 77 crushed into a Scania on the 685.

Iv'e never being on a Temsa, are they any good?

I have only been on a Temsa on one occasion and it was one of the worst buses that I have travelled on. The heating was poor and from discussing this with fellow passengers it appears to be a common issue with the Temsa. The seats were uncomfortable and the bus seemed to be sadly lacking power to negotiate any up hill gradient. My experience might not be the norm based on a one off journey but I will avoid the Temsa next time even if that means taking a DAF or a Dart.

I have only been on a Temsa on one occasion and it was one of the worst buses that I have travelled on. The heating was poor and from discussing this with fellow passengers it appears to be a common issue with the Temsa. The seats were uncomfortable and the bus seemed to be sadly lacking power to negotiate any up hill gradient. My experience might not be the norm based on a one off journey but I will avoid the Temsa next time even if that means taking a DAF or a Dart.

Thank's i rarely use Arriva so wasn't sure on how good they were.

Might have to try them one day.

If it means 8 passengers aren't being left behind at a bus stop, then it definitely does seem worth it in my eyes...

Would love to see the difference in prices between the two vehicles for the sake of 8 extra passengers.

Would love to see the difference in prices between the two vehicles for the sake of 8 extra passengers.

I think a Citaro (heavy weight single decker) is £180k, and a Volvo B9TL/Gemini 2 is £200k - when equipped with Wi-Fi, power sockets etc.

You can get a rough idea from the above, but I also agree with GuyParkRoyal's point too... If it meant I was standing with about 30 other people on an OmniCity compared to standing with about 10 people on a Gemini... Think I'd go with the double decker.

I think a Citaro (heavy weight single decker) is £180k, and a Volvo B9TL/Gemini 2 is £200k - when equipped with Wi-Fi, power sockets etc.

You can get a rough idea from the above, but I also agree with GuyParkRoyal's point too... If it meant I was standing with about 30 other people on an OmniCity compared to standing with about 10 people on a Gemini... Think I'd go with the double decker.

Yes, you can.

I was thinking from an economics/purchasing depts point of view when I posted though.

For the sake of 8 passengers, is it worth buying a smaller, cheaper vehicle and upping the frequency or a bigger, more expensive one and reducing frequency.

For the sake of 8 passengers, is it worth buying a smaller, cheaper vehicle and upping the frequency or a bigger, more expensive one and reducing frequency.

Assuming the frequency was to stay the same with a double decker (not sure where the reduction in frequency comes into play?), buying additional smaller single decked vehicles to meet the same seats per hour is likely to be more expensive in the long run.

With a bigger frequency comes more costs (insurance, various equipment a company uses to track vehicles etc, destination display equipment, drivers' wages etc).

Assuming the frequency was to stay the same with a double decker (not sure where the reduction in frequency comes into play?), buying additional smaller single decked vehicles to meet the same seats per hour is likely to be more expensive in the long run.

With a bigger frequency comes more costs (insurance, various equipment a company uses to track vehicles etc, destination display equipment, drivers' wages etc).

I think you've got the prices wrong - single deckers can cost anywhere from £110k upto £180k, deckers from £180k upwards. Oblivious it costs more for any extra on the vehicles (ie WiFi, plug sockets etc). So, in reality, Arriva's OmniCitys on the 85/685 will each cost minimum £40k less than one of the B9s on the Ten. And additionally, as Arriva Bus & Coach is the main dealer for VDL in this country, Arriva get a discount on the Pulsars.

I think you've got the prices wrong - single deckers can cost anywhere from £110k upto £180k, deckers from £180k upwards.

Trying buying a Mercedes Citaro for £110k. Daniel is more near the mark by the time VAT is added, that is for sure!

Assuming the frequency was to stay the same with a double decker (not sure where the reduction in frequency comes into play?), buying additional smaller single decked vehicles to meet the same seats per hour is likely to be more expensive in the long run.

With a bigger frequency comes more costs (insurance, various equipment a company uses to track vehicles etc, destination display equipment, drivers' wages etc).

The 10 is probably a good example of that (cant think of ANE examples off the top of my head).

If you think about when it was all single deck operation and ran on the greater frequency between Hexham and Newcastle - compared to the current frequency on the deckers, with a smaller PVR, but similar seats per hour on the route.

I imagine costs equated to wages etc are better currently, but that could be reduced slightly, with it costing more per hour to run a bigger vehicle as well as the greater purchase price.

Trying buying a Mercedes Citaro for £110k. Daniel is more near the mark by the time VAT is added, that is for sure!

Different markers=different prices. A normal-spec Pulsar is going to cost a lot less than a normal-spec Citaro.

The 10 is probably a good example of that (cant think of ANE examples off the top of my head).

If you think about when it was all single deck operation and ran on the greater frequency between Hexham and Newcastle - compared to the current frequency on the deckers, with a smaller PVR, but similar seats per hour on the route.

I imagine costs equated to wages etc are better currently, but that could be reduced slightly, with it costing more per hour to run a bigger vehicle.

Even talking about GNE on the Arriva thread - anyone would think you were obsessed with GNE

I wouldn't imagine that upping the frequency across the day would be economic - though running duplicates during peak times could work.

Anybody know the relative costs of running the MPDs against the deckers

Drivers wages will be constant (big assumption), fuel will vary as will depreciation of the vehicle (capital cost versus lifetime) and servicing/repairs.

Dennis Trident 2 based vehicles have always been rubbish:

- 7430 to 7435 couldn't cope on the 602 and Arriva had to bring in a batch of Volvo B10BLE's from Scotland. They then went to Blyth on the 308 and again, couldn't cope. Finally at Jesmond, they could only work Monday to Saturday daytime on the 306 and because they were worn they were when only 5 year old, Palatine 2's and Volvo B10BLE's had to operate the evening and Sunday 306 journeys to give the ALX400's a rest.

- GNE 3801 to 3804 ; 3858 to 3879 had to get the temperature sensors removed when new due to the fact that they constantly overheated. They struggled on several routes. They couldn't cope with thw Coaster extension to Kibblesworth / Wrekenton. They couldn't cope on the Angel when CLS gave Percy Main some Omnicities in exchange for the Lolynes. Ex London castoffs have to be brought up to replace the Lolynes. Lolynes have had trouble on the X25 and can't cope with the route.

- SNEW NK07 HBL went up in smoke in Killingworth as did Arriva's 7510 in Felton.

- Arriva 7501 to 7506 struggled on the 308 and literally crawled up the slip roads on the Coast Road. They were sluggish and they were requiring heavy maintenace at only 3 year old.

[/quote]

Having driven 7432-5 at Durham, it seems like the problem with these 4 has been the lack of TLC. Since 7434 has had its repaint, its a real workhorse, it keeps time better than most Pulsars and just laughs at hills; at times you have to remind yourself that it's a Trident because it certainly doesn't behave like one - 7432/5 have also had work done to their engines and are significantly improved on what they were when they first arrived at Belmont.

Even talking about GNE on the Arriva thread - anyone would think you were obsessed with GNE

Did you not see the little disclaimer about examples like?

But yeah, I dream about GNE. Obsessed with them.
I have a little folder in the shed that Mrs Andreos1 doesn't know about, dedicated to all things GNE

Different markers=different prices. A normal-spec Pulsar is going to cost a lot less than a normal-spec Citaro.

But Dan quoted a Citaro at that price, not a Pulsar. Even still are you sure a Pulsar is £110k, that is more like a price of a Versa or Streetlite, then add 20% VAT on.

I have a little folder in the shed that Mrs Andreos1 doesn't know about, dedicated to all things GNE

I bet you do!

I bet you do!

Don't tell anyone.
You can have a peek one day if you want...

Don't get too excited (cos we all know how much you love them) but there are blueprints for destination display kits too!
I even have a prototype of a MobiMASTER ICU 402!

Dennis Trident 2 based vehicles have always been rubbish:

- 7430 to 7435 couldn't cope on the 602 and Arriva had to bring in a batch of Volvo B10BLE's from Scotland. They then went to Blyth on the 308 and again, couldn't cope. Finally at Jesmond, they could only work Monday to Saturday daytime on the 306 and because they were worn they were when only 5 year old, Palatine 2's and Volvo B10BLE's had to operate the evening and Sunday 306 journeys to give the ALX400's a rest.

- GNE 3801 to 3804 ; 3858 to 3879 had to get the temperature sensors removed when new due to the fact that they constantly overheated. They struggled on several routes. They couldn't cope with thw Coaster extension to Kibblesworth / Wrekenton. They couldn't cope on the Angel when CLS gave Percy Main some Omnicities in exchange for the Lolynes. Ex London castoffs have to be brought up to replace the Lolynes. Lolynes have had trouble on the X25 and can't cope with the route.

- SNEW NK07 HBL went up in smoke in Killingworth as did Arriva's 7510 in Felton.

- Arriva 7501 to 7506 struggled on the 308 and literally crawled up the slip roads on the Coast Road. They were sluggish and they were requiring heavy maintenace at only 3 year old.

[/quote]

bloody hell, what is your problem with these buses, if they were so bad why would Arriva and stagecoach continue to invest in them, look at the amount if E400's in the stagecoach fleet, and look at how very little problems they have. 19151 only went up in smoke because something got stuck in the engine (think it was a matress) so you cant blame the bus. Touching on the lolynes i think they are great buses, and theyve certainly lasted throughout the years, with not that many issues, yes fair enough some have had problems but that's mainly age related, i think you just need to end your little war against the E400 and just got on with them, along with your hatred for the 308