I notice there is a tender out for services 351 and 359, due to start on 3rd September. I'm assuming the 351 is a direct replacement for the 51, and the 359 will be a Whitley Bay to Backworth service.

There is also a tender out for service 335 - not sure if this is because of a change to route, or GCT have been stripped of the contract (wouldn't be surprised as the reliability is awful)

Could 351/359 be handed out together so they could just interwork.

Could 351/359 be handed out together so they could just interwork.

If the 51 is staying to it's current route then I'd imagine they would interwork.

It would be inefficient to have the 51 as a standalone route, as it would mean massive layovers at each end based on current timings.

So the 359 is back from the dead again,interesting they've started using old route numbers again

I notice there is a tender out for services 351 and 359, due to start on 3rd September. I'm assuming the 351 is a direct replacement for the 51, and the 359 will be a Whitley Bay to Backworth service.

There is also a tender out for service 335 - not sure if this is because of a change to route, or GCT have been stripped of the contract (wouldn't be surprised as the reliability is awful)

I'm not going to leak the routes but all 3 are interworking, it's just one tender. I'll leave it there though - if someone else wants to leak them, that's their choice.

I'm not going to leak the routes but all 3 are interworking, it's just one tender. I'll leave it there though - if someone else wants to leak them, that's their choice.

Interesting. I haven’t seen any tenders for the 553, hopefully a replacement is tendered for that. It gets quite busy at least between Freeman and Wallsend.

Interesting. I haven’t seen any tenders for the 553, hopefully a replacement is tendered for that. It gets quite busy at least between Freeman and Wallsend.

Assuming it'll be later if they do, there's nothing for the 352/353 on evenings and Sunday's either and I can't imagine them leaving no bus at all between Cramlington and Killingworth.

I don't know what the third service is, but the 351 & 359 alone are a bit of a waste IMO.

351:
- Can easily be done using a PVR of 2x if Wiltshire Drive missed and limited stop along the Coast Road. Wiltshire Drive picked up commercially instead by another service.

359:
- 354 changed to do NT Hospital loop instead of Cobalt.
- Backworth - Whitley Bay link still there with change at NT Hospital onto 308/309 every 10 minutes.

It's not just the above examples, but there really needs to be a major clean up of the secondary & tendered services across North Tyneside & Newcastle.

I don't know what the third service is, but the 351 & 359 alone are a bit of a waste IMO.

351:
- Can easily be done using a PVR of 2x if Wiltshire Drive missed and limited stop along the Coast Road. Wiltshire Drive picked up commercially instead by another service.

359:
- 354 changed to do NT Hospital loop instead of Cobalt.
- Backworth - Whitley Bay link still there with change at NT Hospital onto 308/309 every 10 minutes.

It's not just the above examples, but there really needs to be a major clean up of the secondary & tendered services across North Tyneside & Newcastle.

You're ignoring one connection there though which the 343/344/54 covered and it's quite a big one. There's more to it that than this and I wouldn't be surprised if it's changed beforehand as there's potential to be hell on from a certain area.

You're ignoring one connection there though which the 343/344/54 covered and it's quite a big one. There's more to it that than this and I wouldn't be surprised if it's changed beforehand as there's potential to be hell on from a certain area.

Forest Hall,and Killingworth, the only bus it has to the hospital is the 335, but that takes an almighty tour of North Tyneside before it actually gets to the hospital, and getting a bus to the coast now wont even be a thing when the 54 is gone, those areas once upon a time had the 343/344/355 to the coast and the hospital (excluding the 355), then it was the 17 and 53, then when the 53 was swapped and the 17 was axed, Forest Hall lost its link to the hospital altogether, while Killingworth had the 54, swapping buses isnt an issue if you're 30 like me, but what about the elderly and/or disabled, what about if you're not very good with buses, its like the entire public is expected to have knowledge about every single bus

I don't know what the third service is, but the 351 & 359 alone are a bit of a waste IMO.

351:
- Can easily be done using a PVR of 2x if Wiltshire Drive missed and limited stop along the Coast Road. Wiltshire Drive picked up commercially instead by another service.

359:
- 354 changed to do NT Hospital loop instead of Cobalt.
- Backworth - Whitley Bay link still there with change at NT Hospital onto 308/309 every 10 minutes.

It's not just the above examples, but there really needs to be a major clean up of the secondary & tendered services across North Tyneside & Newcastle.

No operator is going to provide a Wiltshire Drive to Newcastle service commercially - Arriva have tried it without luck, GNE did previously.

Given the large number of Nexus tendered services in North Tyneside they could tidy them up if they wanted.

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Assuming it'll be later if they do, there's nothing for the 352/353 on evenings and Sunday's either and I can't imagine them leaving no bus at all between Cramlington and Killingworth.

I assume that Nexus will negotiate directly with the operators for odd evening and Sunday journey on their services.

Forest Hall,and Killingworth, the only bus it has to the hospital is the 335, but that takes an almighty tour of North Tyneside before it actually gets to the hospital, and getting a bus to the coast now wont even be a thing when the 54 is gone, those areas once upon a time had the 343/344/355 to the coast and the hospital (excluding the 355), then it was the 17 and 53, then when the 53 was swapped and the 17 was axed, Forest Hall lost its link to the hospital altogether, while Killingworth had the 54, swapping buses isnt an issue if you're 30 like me, but what about the elderly and/or disabled, what about if you're not very good with buses, its like the entire public is expected to have knowledge about every single bus

Honestly can't disagree, there's been some pretty brutal cuts recently mind. I can't say much but one of the routes isn't going to go down well and it's probably not what people expect even known I'm not surprised it's happening either with the budget cuts around.

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No operator is going to provide a Wiltshire Drive to Newcastle service commercially - Arriva have tried it without luck, GNE did previously.

Given the large number of Nexus tendered services in North Tyneside they could tidy them up if they wanted.

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I assume that Nexus will negotiate directly with the operators for odd evening and Sunday journey on their services.

Aye possibly, I know the 353 has been subsidised for years, be interesting to see if they bother with the 352 at all as it's not really needed that much.

No operator is going to provide a Wiltshire Drive to Newcastle service commercially - Arriva have tried it without luck, GNE did previously.

Given the large number of Nexus tendered services in North Tyneside they could tidy them up if they wanted.

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I assume that Nexus will negotiate directly with the operators for odd evening and Sunday journey on their services.

Really Wiltshire Drive isn't commercially viable, shocking news. Considering the way certain people bang on about it

Really Wiltshire Drive isn't commercially viable, shocking news. Considering the way certain people bang on about it

As part of a commercial service such as the 307, it would be.

Using Hadrian Park as an example, the 57 & 58 had that exact same issue as people on other parts of the route between Battle Hill and Newcastle wanted the 306/308/309/310 instead. And to some extent, the 311 suffered the same issue given that it ran 6 or 7 minutes behind the 310.

My whole point about the 22, 307 and 351 is that commercial resource where available needs to be better utilised rather than throwing more money at tendered services. The 351 through Wiltshire Drive still won't do anything to get people out of their cars with an 'hourly' service. But a slight re-jigg of the 307 and 22 could change that and offer better services to more people.

As part of a commercial service such as the 307, it would be.

Using Hadrian Park as an example, the 57 & 58 had that exact same issue as people on other parts of the route between Battle Hill and Newcastle wanted the 306/308/309/310 instead. And to some extent, the 311 suffered the same issue given that it ran 6 or 7 minutes behind the 310.

My whole point about the 22, 307 and 351 is that commercial resource where available needs to be better utilised rather than throwing more money at tendered services. The 351 through Wiltshire Drive still won't do anything to get people out of their cars with an 'hourly' service. But a slight re-jigg of the 307 and 22 could change that and offer better services to more people.

The Wiltshire Drive is pointless. I've used the 51 through there and the amount of people that use it wouldn't warrant a service every 30 minutes. The 307 would have to be approved for the Coast Road Agreement. If that was the case then the 309 would have to go via Wiltshire Drive as well as part of the agreement. The 41A is the only service I've seen that gets busy through that section. Also how the 22 would work is anyone guess. It doesn't even go anywhere near Wiltshire Drive. The 22 is fine going to Silverlink and Cobalt. And has been since 2015

The Wiltshire Drive is pointless. I've used the 51 through there and the amount of people that use it wouldn't warrant a service every 30 minutes. The 307 would have to be approved for the Coast Road Agreement. If that was the case then the 309 would have to go via Wiltshire Drive as well as part of the agreement. The 41A is the only service I've seen that gets busy through that section. Also how the 22 would work is anyone guess. It doesn't even go anywhere near Wiltshire Drive. The 22 is fine going to Silverlink and Cobalt. And has been since 2015

But people around Wiltshire Drive don't use the 51 as it's too infrequent. They either walk to Station Road and use the 307, 309 or Coast Road / Station Road for them all, or use alternative means of transport. Some people ex Newcastle get off the main services just after the Wills train bridge too.

309 wouldn't need to go via Wiltshire Drive for starters and it's frequent enough to keep a service on Station Road, allowing the 307 to.

To clear your last bit up about the 22, this is what I'd suggest for all the services concerned........

- 22 - Split after Churchill Street, every 20 mins to Silverlink & Cobalt or every 20 minutes to Hadrian Park.

- 307 - Omits Hadrian Park and serves Wiltshire Drive instead.

- 309 - Extra minute between High Farm and Coast Road / Station Road, allowing a 13/7 split with the 307 between Middle Engine Lane and High Farm. 1 minute also removed between New York and NT Hospital ex Newcastle.

- 306/308 - Both get 1 extra minute between Willington Square and Coast Road / Station Road.

- 351 - Omits Wiltshire Drive and after Coast Road / Station Road, operates non-stop to the Civic Centre, St Mary's and Haymarket. Allows service to run standalone with a PVR of 2x if needed.

I don't know why were talking about the 351 again, when it interworks with the 359 which is needed for other reasons so it's not saving any PVR's.

But people around Wiltshire Drive don't use the 51 as it's too infrequent. They either walk to Station Road and use the 307, 309 or Coast Road / Station Road for them all, or use alternative means of transport. Some people ex Newcastle get off the main services just after the Wills train bridge too.

309 wouldn't need to go via Wiltshire Drive for starters and it's frequent enough to keep a service on Station Road, allowing the 307 to.

To clear your last bit up about the 22, this is what I'd suggest for all the services concerned........

- 22 - Split after Churchill Street, every 20 mins to Silverlink & Cobalt or every 20 minutes to Hadrian Park.

- 307 - Omits Hadrian Park and serves Wiltshire Drive instead.

- 309 - Extra minute between High Farm and Coast Road / Station Road, allowing a 13/7 split with the 307 between Middle Engine Lane and High Farm. 1 minute also removed between New York and NT Hospital ex Newcastle.

- 306/308 - Both get 1 extra minute between Willington Square and Coast Road / Station Road.

- 351 - Omits Wiltshire Drive and after Coast Road / Station Road, operates non-stop to the Civic Centre, St Mary's and Haymarket. Allows service to run standalone with a PVR of 2x if needed.

Of course, GNE tried a half hourly 307 to Newcastle via Wiltshire Drive some years ago (with minibuses) and it was a complete flop. Most Wiltshire Drive passengers walk from Station Road or the Coast Rd.

Removing 307 from Hadrian Park would mean Hadrian Park to Newcastle passengers being dragged through Wallsend and Byker on the 22, a much longer journey.

Of course, GNE tried a half hourly 307 to Newcastle via Wiltshire Drive some years ago (with minibuses) and it was a complete flop. Most Wiltshire Drive passengers walk from Station Road or the Coast Rd.

Because the service was wholly dependent on Wiltshire Drive! Would be a totally different case with the current 307.

Removing 307 from Hadrian Park would mean Hadrian Park to Newcastle passengers being dragged through Wallsend and Byker on the 22, a much longer journey.

5 minutes more than the 57/58? Not forgetting the better bus priority measures such as Byker Bridge and the links in the City Centre too.

Why not leave the 22 alone and either send the 12 or Q3 up there i' d probably opt for the Q3, meaning the 41/41A couldbe canned at the same time, hey if push comes to shove, they could probably do something with the 18

Why not leave the 22 alone and either send the 12 or Q3 up there i' d probably opt for the Q3,  meaning the 41/41A couldbe canned at the same time,  hey if push comes to shove, they could probably do something with the 18

tbf the 41/41A is still commercial, probably better to leave it like that. The Q3 would be one hell of a route from end to end.

Why not leave the 22 alone and either send the 12 or Q3 up there i' d probably opt for the Q3,  meaning the 41/41A couldbe canned at the same time,  hey if push comes to shove, they could probably do something with the 18

Sending the Q3 up there would mean a, near enough, 1 hour journey time from Hadrian Park to the city centre. Pretty much double the current time, which I imagine would kill usage. 

It comes back to newer estate developments being pretty horrendous for bus routing. Hadrian Park is a prime example of this, but others include Great Park (both sections, but particularly the part served by the X46)

Sending the Q3 up there would mean a, near enough, 1 hour journey time from Hadrian Park to the city centre. Pretty much double the current time, which I imagine would kill usage. 

It comes back to newer estate developments being pretty horrendous for bus routing. Hadrian Park is a prime example of this, but others include Great Park (both sections, but particularly the part served by the X46)

To be fair the main side of the Great Park isn't too bad now the new road is open. The Stagecoach X47 could easily extend through and serve the other side and give links from Kingston Park etc.

Even if it meant splitting it into 2 and having one doing it one direction and the other the opposite. Imagine it being quicker than the Q3 aswell now that goes for a mystery tour around Jesmond. Obviously bus companies are as innovate as a type writer lately though so it won't happen.

Sending the Q3 up there would mean a, near enough, 1 hour journey time from Hadrian Park to the city centre. Pretty much double the current time, which I imagine would kill usage. 

It comes back to newer estate developments being pretty horrendous for bus routing. Hadrian Park is a prime example of this, but others include Great Park (both sections, but particularly the part served by the X46)

I think a Q3 and 41/41A merger would be overkill.

The 22 although funded by Cobalt, doesn't justify a 10 minute service to Cobalt.

The point I'm trying to make as a taxpayer, is why is Nexus hellbent on relying on tendered services (hourly should I add), when better value for money could be obtained working in partnetship with operators such as GNE & Stagecoach?

I'll take the argument about previous GNE attempts to serve Wiltshire Drive, but the 'old' 307 was solely dependent on Wiltshire Drive as was the 57/58/311 for Hadrian Park. Re-routing the current 307 would be a totally different ball game altogether with the North Shields - High Farm section and Coast Road / Station Road to Newcastle Haymarket section supporting things.

Sending the Q3 up there would mean a, near enough, 1 hour journey time from Hadrian Park to the city centre. Pretty much double the current time, which I imagine would kill usage. 

It comes back to newer estate developments being pretty horrendous for bus routing. Hadrian Park is a prime example of this, but others include Great Park (both sections, but particularly the part served by the X46)

Thats my bad, i keep forgetting the Q3 goes through Jesmond now, in fairness the previous 307 attempts didnt really help as they started in pretty random places, like Benton ASDA,didnt really make sense (to me anyway) always seemed to me that that version of the 307 was just there for the 17 so there wasnt a bus sitting around doing nothing, the 51 weirdly i thought had potential, as the 355 seemed to do well, i guess it boils down to this, most routes now are trying to serve a demand from the yesteryear just for the sake of nostalgia, and in some places its like trying to polish a turd, look at GNE's 1 as a prime example, extended to the Metrocentre, then unextended, then extended again, i believe they did it with Wrekenton aswell, then unextended it, then re-extended it, instead of looking and saying "that bit works, lets leave it alone", they piss about with it, sorry to pick on GNE there, its the first example i could think of

I think a Q3 and 41/41A merger would be overkill.

The 22 although funded by Cobalt, doesn't justify a 10 minute service to Cobalt.

The point I'm trying to make as a taxpayer, is why is Nexus hellbent on relying on tendered services (hourly should I add), when better value for money could be obtained working in partnetship with operators such as GNE & Stagecoach?

I'll take the argument about previous GNE attempts to serve Wiltshire Drive, but the 'old' 307 was solely dependent on Wiltshire Drive as was the 57/58/311 for Hadrian Park. Re-routing the current 307 would be a totally different ball game altogether with the North Shields - High Farm section and Coast Road / Station Road to Newcastle Haymarket section supporting things.

The 41/41A is a commercial service. Send the 22 into Hadrian Park and the 41/41A is in trouble so GNE won't be approving that anytime soon. They're losing their turf to cover a road that people can use their services anyway for most of it.

Nexus and the bus companies are not friends hence why Nexus slag them off at every opportunity. Personally I could imagine certain Nexus individuals being intolerable to work with and pretty much all councillors are intolerable.

To be fair the main side of the Great Park isn't too bad now the new road is open. The Stagecoach X47 could easily extend through and serve the other side and give links from Kingston Park etc.

Even if it meant splitting it into 2 and having one doing it one direction and the other the opposite. Imagine it being quicker than the Q3 aswell now that goes for a mystery tour around Jesmond. Obviously bus companies are as innovate as a type writer lately though so it won't happen.

I hadn't actually realised that had opened up now, would absolutely make sense for the X47 to be extended through to cover the west side of the estate.

Time wise, it would probably have to take around 5 mins to get from the estate to the first stop in Kingston Park to break even time wise with the Q3 - but obviously you're also introducing new connections with Kingston Park and Cowgate. That said, if you were to extend the Q3 to cover that half, it would probably also increase in time by a couple of minutes too, so I reckon if Stagecoach could do it in sub-10 minutes it would be about on par. 

The Jesmond addition to the Q3 is a huge bit of extra time really, Haymarket to the first stop in Great Park is bang on 30 minutes on a regular journey. As a comparison, you could be in the following places from Haymarket in 30 mins or less:

• Cramlington - Dudley Lane Shops (27 mins on an X10/11, 29 mins on an X9).
  
• Morpeth - all stops up until Sun Inn (30 mins or less on X14/5/8, even Morpeth Bus Station is only 32 minutes). 
  
• Bedlington - Red Lion (30 mins on an X22)
  
• Dinnington - Front Street (29 mins on 44/45)
  

I hadn't actually realised that had opened up now, would absolutely make sense for the X47 to be extended through to cover the west side of the estate.

Time wise, it would probably have to take around 5 mins to get from the estate to the first stop in Kingston Park to break even time wise with the Q3 - but obviously you're also introducing new connections with Kingston Park and Cowgate. That said, if you were to extend the Q3 to cover that half, it would probably also increase in time by a couple of minutes too, so I reckon if Stagecoach could do it in sub-10 minutes it would be about on par. 

The Jesmond addition to the Q3 is a huge bit of extra time really, Haymarket to the first stop in Great Park is bang on 30 minutes on a regular journey. As a comparison, you could be in the following places from Haymarket in 30 mins or less:

• Cramlington - Dudley Lane Shops (27 mins on an X10/11, 29 mins on an X9).
  
• Morpeth - all stops up until Sun Inn (30 mins or less on X14/5/8, even Morpeth Bus Station is only 32 minutes). 
  
• Bedlington - Red Lion (30 mins on an X22)
  
• Dinnington - Front Street (29 mins on 44/45)
  

Yeah opened a few month ago.

Agreed though, it's only roughly 23 minutes to Kingston Park Road - this stop https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kingst...?entry=ttu so should be competitive especially since as far as I'm aware the X47 gets a clean run at peak times which can't be said about the car park through Gosforth, Blue House Roundabout or Osbourne Road joining the Coast Road.

It'd probably have to be split into 2 though, because of the loop around Brunton Park which just wouldn't work, one via Windsor Drive West and another East as I wouldn't want to force someone to do a mystery magical tour of the Great Park to get home.

It's just a shame someone forgot to build bus stops, but sure they could be retrofitted. Mind either way I'd very surprised if Nexus don't reroute the 342 through it soon.

The 41/41A is a commercial service. Send the 22 into Hadrian Park and the 41/41A is in trouble so GNE won't be approving that anytime soon. They're losing their turf to cover a road that people can use their services anyway for most of it.

Nexus and the bus companies are not friends hence why Nexus slag them off at every opportunity. Personally I could imagine certain Nexus individuals being intolerable to work with and pretty much all councillors are intolerable.

But although the 22 would steal a few 'local' fares of the 41/41A, Stagecoach agreeing to send the 22 into Hadrian Park would reduce the bigger risk to GNE, which would be a 20 minute extension of the 22 to Whitley Bay every 20 minutes, effectively killing off the 1.

Thinking logically, I'm assuming the 335/351/359 tender might be something like this:

351 - Newcastle to Whitley Bay
359 - Killingworth to Whitley Bay (via Murton)
335 - Killingworth to Hadrian Park.

From my maths, this could be done with 5 buses. I don't really see any need for the section beyond Hadrian Park on the 335 if 359 can serve Murton.