(03 Jan 2024, 7:50 pm)Dans_bus_photos wrote I can understand Slatyford loosing 19204 but can't see why they'd loose any of the 58 plate deckers. Would seem slightly pointless replacing them with E400s of the same age.

Because that’s the business case for 11770-11780.
Debate can be ended now anyway - 19379 and 19382 are East Midlands bound. 19379 is off to Scunthorpe while 382 is bound for Grimsby.9

(04 Jan 2024, 3:15 pm)Kuyoyo wrote Because that’s the business case for 11770-11780.
Debate can be ended now anyway - 19379 and 19382 are East Midlands bound. 19379 is off to Scunthorpe while 382 is bound for Grimsby.9

Well by my working out there's still some unaccounted for yet so there's still some hope

Must say I don't particularly see the point in replacing 55 plate ALX400's with 58 plate Enviro 400's from another division, especially running in front line service. It's not exactly much of an improvement.

People slag off the Arriva fleet but the Stagecoach fleet is as bad, shockingly poor cascades.

The East Midlands fleet might aswell be a heritage fleet.

(04 Jan 2024, 5:07 pm)Storx wrote Must say I don't particularly see the point in replacing 55 plate ALX400's with 58 plate Enviro 400's from another division, especially running in front line service. It's not exactly much of an improvement.

People slag off the Arriva fleet but the Stagecoach fleet is as bad, shockingly poor cascades.

The East Midlands fleet might aswell be a heritage fleet.

i really do think that since when i worked at SNE and there was a plan in place where the big money making divisions were getting batches of new vehicles bi annually with a set fleet management plan, it does not feel like that is the case any more.

for example torquay and northampton getting brand new MMCs to try and bring up the standard of tourist and student services whilst dare i say it (again) a year round money making operation like the north east which traditionally has a higher percentage of people using public transport is slowly getting older and older buses or as i focused attention on recently busier and busier services which arent getting remedied

(04 Jan 2024, 3:15 pm)Kuyoyo wrote Because that’s the business case for 11770-11780.
Debate can be ended now anyway - 19379 and 19382 are East Midlands bound. 19379 is off to Scunthorpe while 382 is bound for Grimsby.9

Surely 19380 & 19381 are joining them. Are we expecting 19383/4/5/6/8 to be leaving the north east as well or are they staying at Slatyford? 19431-19435 are now at Slatyford unsure if 19436 is staying at Walkergate or transferring over.

Why are Newcastle depot double dockers been around for?

(04 Jan 2024, 6:00 pm)toward6931 wrote i really do think that since when i worked at SNE and there was a plan in place where the big money making divisions were getting batches of new vehicles bi annually with a set fleet management plan, it does not feel like that is the case any more.

for example torquay and northampton getting brand new MMCs to try and bring up the standard of tourist and student services whilst dare i say it (again) a year round money making operation like the north east which traditionally has a higher percentage of people using public transport is slowly getting older and older buses or as i focused attention on recently busier and busier services which arent getting remedied

tbf, I think it's more they have underinvested for the past 5 or so, in particular during COVID, and there's now a massive backlog which is just getting worse as the investment is still way too low. You can't just keep cutting routes, to get arid of the oldest buses in the fleet.

It'll be interesting to see what happens in 4 years, or so, as both Arriva and Stagecoach are in serious trouble without investment as they both went on a massive buying spree in the early 10's and it's starting to catch up already. On paper, using the 15 year rule, they should be starting now. Obviously Arriva has decided to just up the number instead, but that's a massive sticking plaster.

(04 Jan 2024, 8:17 pm)Storx wrote tbf, I think it's more they have underinvested for the past 5 or so, in particular during COVID, and there's now a massive backlog which is just getting worse as the investment is still way too low. You can't just keep cutting routes, to get arid of the oldest buses in the fleet.

It'll be interesting to see what happens in 4 years, or so, as both Arriva and Stagecoach are in serious trouble without investment as they both went on a massive buying spree in the early 10's and it's starting to catch up already. On paper, using the 15 year rule, they should be starting now. Obviously Arriva has decided to just up the number instead, but that's a massive sticking plaster.

yes, the takeover didnt help either, i certainly think though that a 3 year plan of serious investment would certainly sort out the Newcastle and maybe Sunderland operations and then abit of work on the teeside operations wouldnt be far behind

(04 Jan 2024, 7:40 pm)ReDemPTiion wrote Surely 19380 & 19381 are joining them. Are we expecting 19383/4/5/6/8 to be leaving the north east as well or are they staying at Slatyford? 19431-19435 are now at Slatyford unsure if 19436 is staying at Walkergate or transferring over.

I believe all the 193xx examples are East Midlands bound.

(04 Jan 2024, 6:00 pm)toward6931 wrote i really do think that since when i worked at SNE and there was a plan in place where the big money making divisions were getting batches of new vehicles bi annually with a set fleet management plan, it does not feel like that is the case any more.

for example torquay and northampton getting brand new MMCs to try and bring up the standard of tourist and student services whilst dare i say it (again) a year round money making operation like the north east which traditionally has a higher percentage of people using public transport is slowly getting older and older buses or as i focused attention on recently busier and busier services which arent getting remedied

It was the same with South when I was there we had huge influxes of new vehicles and although there were some old ones most were brand new. You’d expect Newcastle to have a brand new fleet given its return to Group the older vehicles then cascaded to Sunderland Middlesbrough etc… I’m sure if it hadn’t of been for CAZ we’d still have had ALX300s in Newcastle.

(04 Jan 2024, 11:26 pm)Coastliner700 wrote It was the same with South when I was there we had huge influxes of new vehicles and although there were some old ones most were brand new. You’d expect Newcastle to have a brand new fleet given its return to Group the older vehicles then cascaded to Sunderland Middlesbrough etc… I’m sure if it hadn’t of been for CAZ we’d still have had ALX300s in Newcastle.

yes i agree with that, i spend alot of time split between Portsmouth and Newcastle and see alot of similarities, and a few old ex north east vehicles which i used to work on in Newcastle and then riding them as a punter in Pompey.

i think  2 batches of 15 short wheelbase MMCs to see of the darts, MANviros and eldest E200s is a good shout. 

1st delivery split between the Newcastle depots would allow a cascade to see off the MANviros and darts. 

2nd delivery a year later split between Sunderland and Stockton to cascade the newer of the E200s to the low cost depots allowing the eldest ones to go the journey.

again i think 2 batches over 2 years of 20 of the longer wheelbase MMCs would sort out the current fleet,  

a few E200s could be phased out around the Sunderland/Stockton and a handful of the shields ones due to increased passenger numbers in those areas. i estimate that would be no more than eight to ten vehicles. i think the first 20 new MMCs should go to slatyford, cascading ten of the 09 E300s and ten of 2016 MMCs. 

the MMCs with less seats than E300s but more than E200s could oust the E200s and the 24xxx 09 plate E300s could go to Sunderland in order to allow any remaining gas buses or if that situation has been resolved by then the non CAZ vehicles to then replace the eldest single decks around the Stockton area.

the second years batch of 20 could be split between Sunderland and Stockton to oust the eldest single decks around the fleet.

deckers are a different story which i will hold back on speculation at the moment in order to see what goes where after the current cascade

I'm sure the new ADL Enviro 400MMCs were in the end "stolen" by Stagecoach North East, they are the 116xx examples.

(05 Jan 2024, 1:43 am)Rapidsnap wrote I'm sure the new ADL Enviro 400MMCs were in the end "stolen" by Stagecoach North East, they are the 116xx examples.

Meant to go to Torquay weren't they?

(05 Jan 2024, 1:43 am)Rapidsnap wrote I'm sure the new ADL Enviro 400MMCs were in the end "stolen" by Stagecoach North East, they are the 116xx examples.

Reallocated, quite right in my opinion

(03 Jan 2024, 7:50 pm)Dans_bus_photos wrote I can understand Slatyford loosing 19204 but can't see why they'd loose any of the 58 plate deckers. Would seem slightly pointless replacing them with E400s of the same age.

Not only pointless, but irresponsible.

the E400MMCs that came met with the withdrawal of E400EH, ultimately cascading to Lincs etc further reduces the available DD fleet for Newcastle. Stagecoach bid for and won several scholars without making any additions to the fleet, therefore DD's are tied up or only available on services outside of the pressure times. 

Stagecoach are alienating far too many with their use of E200/E300 on traditional DD routes, SCNE just another cash cow with a Yes man in charge.

(05 Jan 2024, 2:48 pm)54APhotography wrote Not only pointless, but irresponsible.

the E400MMCs that came met with the withdrawal of E400EH, ultimately cascading to Lincs etc further reduces the available DD fleet for Newcastle. Stagecoach bid for and won several scholars without making any additions to the fleet, therefore DD's are tied up or only available on services outside of the pressure times. 

Stagecoach are alienating far too many with their use of E200/E300 on traditional DD routes, SCNE just another cash cow with a Yes man in charge.

E200s should never be used on DD routes. I have saw it least once a day on the 38/22 in recent days. An E300 can work on some quiet journeys but not at peak times. You’ve got many deckers tied up on contract work. Surely if they bid for these contracts they should have obtained extra deckers for those rather than steal from main routes

(05 Jan 2024, 3:43 pm)Coastliner700 wrote E200s should never be used on DD routes. I have saw it least once a day on the 38/22 in recent days. An E300 can work on some quiet journeys but not at peak times. You’ve got many deckers tied up on contract work. Surely if they bid for these contracts they should have obtained extra deckers for those rather than steal from main routes

If CAZ wasn't an issue, I would have been content for some of the ALX400s that are now getting disposed of throughout the group to finish their working lives up here either on the contracts or covering for newer vehicles that are on contracts provided there was a plan in place for Thier replacement within a 2 year period.

I hate to say it but judging by the current cycles of procurement SNE will probably not receive any new brand new deckers for 2 or 3 years now. Even if for an extremely unlikely example they received cascaded 2014 MMCs from Manchester those vehicle's are ten years old this year

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(05 Jan 2024, 7:37 am)Storx wrote Meant to go to Torquay weren't they?

The issue I have was that SC South west has had a higher percentage of investment in recent years compared to SNE, but outside of tourist season the profits are quite low. I'm not against other divisions receiving investment but as pointed out when SNE is a cash cow subsidising other divisions investment that gets my goat abit

2 hybrids on 22 today and one on 38 so when those leave there is going to be even more issues with single deckers on them routes. Think they should have kept the better hybrids not lost them all.

(05 Jan 2024, 7:31 pm)toward6931 wrote If CAZ wasn't an issue, I would have been content for some of the ALX400s that are now getting disposed of throughout the group to finish their working lives up here either on the contracts or covering for newer vehicles that are on contracts provided there was a plan in place for Thier replacement within a 2 year period.

I hate to say it but judging by the current cycles of procurement SNE will probably not receive any new brand new deckers for 2 or 3 years now. Even if for an extremely unlikely example they received cascaded 2014 MMCs from Manchester those vehicle's are ten years old this year

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The issue I have was that SC South west has had a higher percentage of investment in recent years compared to SNE, but outside of tourist season the profits are quite low. I'm not against other divisions receiving investment but as pointed out when SNE is a cash cow subsidising other divisions investment that gets my goat abit

I see an E200 on the 38 and think exactly the same. It is the highest profit making division besides Manchester so seems completely wrong it has such an aging fleet. If anything the new buses should have been extra not replacing things.

Then I see the 18 a double decker carrying 10 people if lucky. I know what the contract states and maybe 1/2 journeys require them not the entire day but it’s a complete waste of double deckers especially at the weekend when an E200 would be ideal. That won’t be helping the situation.

(06 Jan 2024, 1:13 pm)Coastliner700 wrote I see an E200 on the 38 and think exactly the same. It is the highest profit making division besides Manchester so seems completely wrong it has such an aging fleet. If anything the new buses should have been extra not replacing things.

Then I see the 18 a double decker carrying 10 people if lucky. I know what the contract states and maybe 1/2 journeys require them not the entire day but it’s a complete waste of double deckers especially at the weekend when an E200 would be ideal. That won’t be helping the situation.

It does make you wonder why Walkergate still have 8 E200s for the 317 which have a PVR of 5, but frequently has E300/E400s allocated to the 317. And you've got 27631 at Shields? which I can't understand why its there since it can't be used on the X34. Would make more sense sending it to Sunderland, 27726 to Walkergate and 36468 to Shields. Not ideal but an E300 is better than an E200. 
To tidy up the E200s would also make more sense sending 36467 back to Hartlepool, 36979 to Sunderland and 36478 to Shields.

(06 Jan 2024, 9:38 pm)Dans_bus_photos wrote It does make you wonder why Walkergate still have 8 E200s for the 317 which have a PVR of 5, but frequently has E300/E400s allocated to the 317. And you've got 27631 at Shields? which I can't understand why its there since it can't be used on the X34. Would make more sense sending it to Sunderland, 27726 to Walkergate and 36468 to Shields. Not ideal but an E300 is better than an E200. 
To tidy up the E200s would also make more sense sending 36467 back to Hartlepool, 36979 to Sunderland and 36478 to Shields.

The same as X63 wasn’t it originally a single deck route with the E300s transferred after alx300s left yet that often a decker even the 317 has deckers on occasionally

(05 Jan 2024, 3:43 pm)Coastliner700 wrote E200s should never be used on DD routes. I have saw it least once a day on the 38/22 in recent days. An E300 can work on some quiet journeys but not at peak times. You’ve got many deckers tied up on contract work. Surely if they bid for these contracts they should have obtained extra deckers for those rather than steal from main routes

There's literally like 4 seats between them. Those 4 seats might be needed on the X47 or whatever, they'll not make bot all difference on a decker route which will be overcapacity regardless.

Why mess up two bus routes instead of one?

Should the 116XX,s should have some branding like the 1128X examples

(08 Jan 2024, 9:26 am)GoNorthEast6050 wrote Should the 116XX,s should have some branding like the 1128X  examples

I disagree tbh.
The 39/40 branded ones end up on other routes more frequently than not. The branding for SNE on the 19/23/73 plates should be "East <--> West Connections every few mins via city centre". That way every route that needs a decker at Walkergate is relevant. And should stay prioritised on the routes below. 
1 (11609-11620) PVR=12
22 (11300/11501-03/11607/11608 & 11770 - 11780) PVR = 16
39/40 (11281-11299) PVR = 19 (9 & 10 individually)

This means that if they venture onto the anything else but the 18 or 317 then the sub-branding will make perfect sense. And different areas get new/newer buses instead of just the West Road or Walker/Wallsend. I would move the X63 to Slatyford and combine with the 72 (see service suggestions for more info) which should alleviate but not solve the pressure of Decker's.

(08 Jan 2024, 1:50 pm)logidoodah wrote I disagree tbh.
The 39/40 branded ones end up on other routes more frequently than not. The branding for SNE on the 19/23/73 plates should be "East <--> West Connections every few mins via city centre". That way every route that needs a decker at Walkergate is relevant. And should stay prioritised on the routes below. 
1 (11609-11620) PVR=12
22 (11300/11501-03/11607/11608 & 11770 - 11780) PVR = 16
39/40 (11281-11299) PVR = 19 (9 & 10 individually)

This means that if they venture onto the anything else but the 18 or 317 then the sub-branding will make perfect sense. And different areas get new/newer buses instead of just the West Road or Walker/Wallsend. I would move the X63 to Slatyford and combine with the 72 (see service suggestions for more info) which should alleviate but not solve the pressure of Decker's.

What's the point in that? Might aswell just keep them corporate if they don't actually advertise anything specific imo.

Walkergate 12080 is going a very interesting way on its trip. It went to White maire pool and came back to the depot then went to North Shields Hub to Tynemouth to Whitley Bay to New York then via Shiremoor to Killingworth looped round the bus station were home barging is and is now following the 37 route to Cramlington from Killingworth

will be doing risk assessments or an engineering test run

(08 Jan 2024, 7:23 pm)Storx wrote What's the point in that? Might aswell just keep them corporate if they don't actually advertise anything specific imo.

Because if someone sees every few mins its attractive. Also said that as it would be corporate livery with the branding on the windows as now.

39731 is now at stockton

39731 want here at Stockton depot for.