(21 Aug 2024, 3:36 pm)Storx wrote In fairness, it's much of the same really and they're both as bad as each other. Not sure what is has to do with GoNorthEast though, what'aboutery at it's finest.

BSIP propping up 'goldmines' is completely unacceptable. Arriva Northumbria & Northumberland CC have used the funding pretty well and actually secured some decent links such as the improved 57/57A (minus the Solos), 43 extension to Morpeth etc.

Anything that's a 'goldmine' or core route, should be ran fully commercially (or mostly) for 1 year with an increased frequency....then if deemed non-profitable despite being socially essential / demand warranted, then BSIP comes in at that point paying for any losses incurred during the 1 year trial + future funding.

For BSIP funding, GNE's priorities should've been:

- Restoring a faster Newcastle to Lanchester link whilst restoring links from West & South Stanley to Gateshead

- Better evening & Sunday service on X73 Stanley to MetroCentre only

- Blackhill - Quicker peak time journeys on X70/X71 or maybe an all day extension of one of the services

- Faster Tyne Valley to Newcastle service (11/604) instead of propping up the 10/10A/10B

- 25/725 restored to full route

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if GNE end up using BSIP to try and restore the X9.....but that comes with other issues such as lack of suitable vehicles being available....which can't be resolved unless changes are made in Derwentside to either routes, interworking patterns or vehicle allocations (some boards being changed to single deck).

A tad off topic but I’m half expecting DRT to replace Taxibuses

Just had another thought about the BSIP and Derwentside (NOT vehicle allocations)

Is it not time GNE try something different out of the box? They're quick....but most of the Derwentside to Newcastle services (except the X45, 47 and to an extent the X73) are lucky to see anything other than farmers fields and rely on peak time commuter flows (Sunniside, Whickham and Dunston).

Arriva Northumbria have on their Blyth & Ashington 'X' routes.........
- Cramlington
- Bedlington
- Nelson Ind Estate
- Regent Centre
- Gosforth High Street

All of the above have something going for them and clearly places people want to be. Think Stanley to MetroCentre and the 'proper' Team Valley (not just Team Valley North). Yes, would be more 45-50 minutes sending 'X' buses via MetroCentre or Team Valley, but they'd actually be places people want to go to for some reason or another. And lets face it, the X32 is already in that timing territory.

A 5-10 minute inconvenience, but could grow passenger numbers and actually improve services with increased frequencies etc and stable income.

(22 Aug 2024, 4:54 pm)L469 YVK wrote Just had another thought about the BSIP and Derwentside (NOT vehicle allocations)

Is it not time GNE try something different out of the box? They're quick....but most of the Derwentside to Newcastle services (except the X45, 47 and to an extent the X73) are lucky to see anything other than farmers fields and rely on peak time commuter flows (Sunniside, Whickham and Dunston).

Arriva Northumbria have on their Blyth & Ashington 'X' routes.........
- Cramlington
- Bedlington
- Nelson Ind Estate
- Regent Centre
- Gosforth High Street

All of the above have something going for them and clearly places people want to be. Think Stanley to MetroCentre and the 'proper' Team Valley (not just Team Valley North). Yes, would be more 45-50 minutes sending 'X' buses via MetroCentre or Team Valley, but they'd actually be places people want to go to for some reason or another. And lets face it, the X32 is already in that timing territory.

A 5-10 minute inconvenience, but could grow passenger numbers and actually improve services with increased frequencies etc and stable income.

Personally I'd go backwards if I was looking at routes around there and restore the following routes

6: No Changes (Basically 43), Every 30 Minutes
7: X73 Route (Basically 44), Every 30 Minutes
----
6/7: Every 15 Minutes Combined, Stanley to Metrocentre / Newcastle

X70/X71/X30/X31, All via Lobley Hill / Gateshead
X32/X72/X73: Withdrawn 

X97: X30 to Whickham then via around X97 loop, Every 30 Minutes
96/97: Both Every 30 Minutes, 15 Minutes Combined

It's much better that the mess than what's around there now and means you'd end up with 30 minute services to Newcastle / Metrocentre from everywhere. There's no reason why the expresses should be going via Whickham, and Whickham have slow services to take them to their destination anyway.

I haven't worked it out but it shouldn't be many extra buses (if any).

(21 Aug 2024, 11:52 am)DeltaMan wrote Indeed so. The difference being that Stagecoach actually registered a permanent timetable position post COVID at the end of 2022. So this could be classed as a legitimate enhancements. 

Whereas GNE still appears to be, from a traffic commissioner perspective, still in "temporary" mode. So it appears they are getting paid to restore something that should have been 7/8 mins to begin with.

I disagree. With how busy most of those services can be during the day, supported by the fact there's a business case to use BSIP money to increase frequency, there's absolutely no way that this should be seen as a good use of public funds. 

These services are more than capable of standing on their feet commercially, but I suspect Stagecoach will be looking at it with the view that it doesn't matter how many people are stood or are crammed on, because less buses on the road/less driver compliment required, equals a bigger margin. 

Given that we're very likely moving into franchising (or better), the remainder of the money should be allocated onto long-term bus infrastructure projects.

PB0003954/1402 701 St Peter's Campus St Peter's Campus City Campus, Clanny House 9 Sep 2024

I take this, is going back to its time for Sunderland Uni starting again.

Another variation has gone in for the Q3/Q3X :

PB0003954/690
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED Q3 (Q3, Q3X) Brunton Park Wallsend

(29 Aug 2024, 4:44 pm)Michael wrote Another variation has gone in for the  Q3/Q3X :

PB0003954/690
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED Q3 (Q3, Q3X) Brunton Park Wallsend

Any idea what it is. Possibly the additional journey or to sort the terrible evening journey?

(29 Aug 2024, 7:15 pm)Aaron21 wrote Any idea what it is. Possibly the additional journey or to sort the terrible evening journey?

The late Saturday evening journeys have been retimed.

Do GNE actually have the deckers to run the 21 every 7 minutes when the schools go back?

Will assume this pretty much marks the end of the Angel brand short term with the corporate stuff now in majority

(30 Aug 2024, 12:41 pm)Ambassador wrote Do GNE actually have the deckers to run the 21 every 7 minutes when the schools go back?

Will assume this pretty much marks the end of the Angel brand short term with the corporate stuff now in majority

The loss of 20-30 school contracts and introduction of the 10 or so single-door ex-London E400s at Consett (displacing the “interim” Hybrid replacement fleet) on the 16 should mean that there is sufficient scope to increase frequencies on double-deck routes, albeit with buses backfilled by lower-quality spares. All the OmniDekkas have been withdrawn and without these frequency increases I suspect some Volvo B7 or B9 would have been too.

Noticed the other day just two Angels were out on the 21, with the rest of the allocation comprising ex-London Volvo B9 and E400… On paper there is/was two Angel branded spare StreetDeck on the current frequency, so…!

(30 Aug 2024, 9:00 am)XQ Zero wrote The late Saturday evening journeys have been retimed.

Thanks for pointing out what has changed. What an absolute dogs dinner the Q3 timetable has become!

There is a nice, straightforward headway on evenings Sunday to Friday, but Saturdays are completely different with an abysmal headway which no customer is going to be able to remember nor understand.

I am a firm believer that headways on an evening should be kept as close as possible all week long, as bus users on an evening tend to be fairly regular customers who remember that their buses are due at x minutes past each hour.

I appreciate demand levels are higher on a Saturday evening (which is probably why there is a different timetable on Saturday evenings - I dare say GNE are running that commercially unlike the rest of the week), and the number of pedestrians as well as congestion in Newcastle City Centre is far worse, but there is no excuse for not working with Nexus to create a clockface headway which works best for both parties on secured and commercial journeys, which is kept the same all week long.

Blindly following real time information data to create a timetable is not acting in the interests of customers.

(31 Aug 2024, 7:07 am)Dan wrote Thanks for pointing out what has changed. What an absolute dogs dinner the Q3 timetable has become!

There is a nice, straightforward headway on evenings Sunday to Friday, but Saturdays are completely different with an abysmal headway which no customer is going to be able to remember nor understand.

I am a firm believer that headways on an evening should be kept as close as possible all week long, as bus users on an evening tend to be fairly regular customers who remember that their buses are due at x minutes past each hour.

I appreciate demand levels are higher on a Saturday evening (which is probably why there is a different timetable on Saturday evenings - I dare say GNE are running that commercially unlike the rest of the week), and the number of pedestrians as well as congestion in Newcastle City Centre is far worse, but there is no excuse for not working with Nexus to create a clockface headway which works best for both parties on secured and commercial journeys, which is kept the same all week long.

Blindly following real time information data to create a timetable is not acting in the interests of customers.

Even the Sunday-Friday timetable is odd. From 7pm, you've got the following gaps between buses from St Peters Basin: 25min, 35min, 60min, then 30min for the rest of the evening. I've no idea how they've ended up with a random gap of an hour around 8pm.

I've also noticed that on Sundays, the short Q3 from St Peters Basin only runs as far as Pilgrim Street (19.52, 20.52, 21.52, 22.52) and start at Market Street East. Monday-Friday, the 19.10 runs to Haymarket, then the 21.52 and 22.52 only as far as Pilgrim Street and starts Market Street East. On a Saturday, all the shorts run to/from Haymarket, except for the 23.22, which ends at Pilgrim Street?!

The customer may as well be stood spinning the wheel of fortune, predicting where their bus departs from this time.

Saturday is completely bonkers, and you're right, no customer is going to remember that. What's more likely to happen, is they'll go out for a bus that they've just missed, get pissed off by it, and end up using another form of transport. Then the bus loses out again, thanks to bad management.

Is this the product of having commercial meetings on VOR deckers? Service design that is nothing short than crackpot! I don't know who they're developing this timetable for, but it's as sure not the customer.

I personally don't understand why the Q3 exists North of Newcastle, as it is, least it had a point when it served the Great Park but now it is literal definition of pointless.

It literally duplicates the X46 and 49 on the unique bit and shadows the 35/43/44/45 along other parts of the route.

The 35/X46/Q3/49 badly need to be managed better imo and controlled into a few routes ie.

Q1: Fawdon - Gosforth - Newcastle - St Peters - Wallsend
Q2: Featherstone Grove - Regent Centre - Hollywood Avenue - Gosforth - Newcastle - St Peters
Q3: Great Park - Brunton Lane - Regent Centre - Gosforth - Jesmond - Newcastle - St Peters 

The fact they're all subsidised or have multiple existing subsidises (Q3) shouldn't make it exactly impossible to do, even if it meant GNE running them all with some of them electric and something else for the others (won't be enough if I'm correct).

(31 Aug 2024, 6:58 am)Dan wrote The loss of 20-30 school contracts and introduction of the 10 or so single-door ex-London E400s at Consett (displacing the “interim” Hybrid replacement fleet) on the 16 should mean that there is sufficient scope to increase frequencies on double-deck routes, albeit with buses backfilled by lower-quality spares. All the OmniDekkas have been withdrawn and without these frequency increases I suspect some Volvo B7 or B9 would have been too.

Noticed the other day just two Angels were out on the 21, with the rest of the allocation comprising ex-London Volvo B9 and E400… On paper there is/was two Angel branded spare StreetDeck on the current frequency, so…!

I know I’ve argued buses are point to point people movers on the Durham Rd corridor bu the stuff being served up on the Durham runs is…vintage. The bus that 20 years ago took you to Durham standing in for the one that is running around on the 93/94/51/52/S2 because they’re close to the depot is a hard sell

Added to the new generation of elite drivers. (We need a thread on how bad this lot of new drivers truly are) it’s all a bit…hello 444 4444 Dean Taxis 

If you can’t manage your flagship route (the press release actually showed the hybrids) then what hope have you got

(31 Aug 2024, 10:18 am)Adrian wrote Even the Sunday-Friday timetable is odd. From 7pm, you've got the following gaps between buses from St Peters Basin: 25min, 35min, 60min, then 30min for the rest of the evening. I've no idea how they've ended up with a random gap of an hour around 8pm.

I've also noticed that on Sundays, the short Q3 from St Peters Basin only runs as far as Pilgrim Street (19.52, 20.52, 21.52, 22.52) and start at Market Street East. Monday-Friday, the 19.10 runs to Haymarket, then the 21.52 and 22.52 only as far as Pilgrim Street and starts Market Street East. On a Saturday, all the shorts run to/from Haymarket, except for the 23.22, which ends at Pilgrim Street?!

The customer may as well be stood spinning the wheel of fortune, predicting where their bus departs from this time.

Saturday is completely bonkers, and you're right, no customer is going to remember that. What's more likely to happen, is they'll go out for a bus that they've just missed, get pissed off by it, and end up using another form of transport. Then the bus loses out again, thanks to bad management.

Is this the product of having commercial meetings on VOR deckers? Service design that is nothing short than crackpot! I don't know who they're developing this timetable for, but it's as sure not the customer.

Are these some of the first changes implemented by the new Head of Commercial with a history of wrecking networks in Aberdeen? 

Timetables that make no logical sense are to be expected if that is the case.

(01 Sep 2024, 5:37 pm)PH - BQA wrote Are these some of the first changes implemented by the new Commercial Director with a history of wrecking networks in Aberdeen? 

Timetables that make no logical sense are to be expected if that is the case.

Solos permanently allocated to the 21 also to be expected.

(01 Sep 2024, 6:00 pm)R852 PRG wrote Solos permanently allocated to the 21 also to be expected.

Defining an allocation and sticking to it would be an improvement nowadays.

21 allocation looks as expected. 7 Streetdecks vs the PVR of 18 with Tyne Valley Tens, Crusaders and London cast offs making up the rest

One of the Angels is looping around on the 94 and a handful are on the X21 too.

(02 Sep 2024, 12:57 pm)Ambassador wrote 21 allocation looks as expected. 7 Streetdecks vs the PVR of 18 with Tyne Valley Tens, Crusaders and London cast offs making up the rest
 
One of the Angels is looping around on the 94 and a handful are on the X21 too.

They stuck a Versa on the one hitting Gateshead Stadium just after the match finished at the weekend. 

Appreciate a Versa is better than nowt, but there must have been a decker kicking around somewhere.

(02 Sep 2024, 12:57 pm)Ambassador wrote 21 allocation looks as expected. 7 Streetdecks vs the PVR of 18 with Tyne Valley Tens, Crusaders and London cast offs making up the rest

One of the Angels is looping around on the 94 and a handful are on the X21 too.

What on Earth is happening at Riverside?

Too many vehicles and not enough engineering staff?

Washy seem to do a good job keeping their StreetDecks on the X1. Arriva Northumbria Blyth who effectively operate the predecessor to the StreetDeck (DB300) keep their 15 and 13 year old examples ticking by, arguably on tougher work.

StreetDecks should not be struggling on the likes of the 21, which is arguably no more difficult than Arriva's 308 between Durham and Newcastle.

Maybe Riverside need to drop some routes! 10A extended to Consett in place of the 47 with Consett picking up some boards (if they didn't have to interwork it with the short 10A or 10/10B)? Or.....X21 moved to Consett and crewed out of the Stanley bait room, doing remote reliefs at Chester Le Street? Washington could also be an alternative depending how much room & resource they have.

(02 Sep 2024, 7:07 pm)L469 YVK wrote What on Earth is happening at Riverside?

Too many vehicles and not enough engineering staff?

Washy seem to do a good job keeping their StreetDecks on the X1. Arriva Northumbria Blyth who effectively operate the predecessor to the StreetDeck (DB300) keep their 15 and 13 year old examples ticking by, arguably on tougher work.

StreetDecks should not be struggling on the likes of the 21, which is arguably no more difficult than Arriva's 308 between Durham and Newcastle.

Maybe Riverside need to drop some routes! 10A extended to Consett in place of the 47 with Consett picking up some boards (if they didn't have to interwork it with the short 10A or 10/10B)? Or.....X21 moved to Consett and crewed out of the Stanley bait room, doing remote reliefs at Chester Le Street? Washington could also be an alternative depending how much room & resource they have.

The real answer is opening a super depot in the Birtley area and shutting Washington in the process. The routes are just too far away from the depot so if something is slightly wrong with them they're too far from the depot to be sorted.

It's a mess, but it was always going to happen as you can't regulate it at all when they shut Chester Le Street without any real though. Just another cost cutting exercise.

Mind the DB300 and Streetdeck or SB200 and Streetlite aren't comparable, two completely different vehicles.

(02 Sep 2024, 7:10 pm)Storx wrote The real answer is opening a super depot in the Birtley area and shutting Washington in the process. The routes are just too far away from the depot so if something is slightly wrong with them they're too far from the depot to be sorted.

It's a mess, but it was always going to happen as you can't regulate it at all when they shut Chester Le Street without any real though. Just another cost cutting exercise.

Mind the DB300 and Streetdeck or SB200 and Streetlite aren't comparable, two completely different vehicles.

It's a good job they aren't planning to introduce some complicated electric stock onto the 21 with not much infrastructure on the route to support it...

Can someone clarify who is responsible for the Q3/Q3X service -Is it Nexus or GNE and what exactly are the funding issues for this service. Given Its electric vehicles surely it should be more of a flagship service. The current changes ignoring the politics of the GNP which to be honest are boring are well below par with the MF early evening provision just not fit for purpose, Saturdays early evening provision surpasses the entire Saturday daytime frequencies with intervals of 15,16,19, mins, all crazy. Sundays is a flat 30min frequency with one deviation around 6pm. As for the areas it serve surely it should connect directly with Byker Metro - Is the Walker - Wallsend M-S day service really required. So much more innovation/connectivity could be generated in connecting it to Byker or Walker Metro stations.

I see the wonderful great park people ain't happy with gne changes or in fact anyone. This Q3X is the most pointless service in existence. The nexus timetable details it being 4 minutes quicker than the Q3 half the time. The fact it's just via Great North Road is pathetic

Go North East should have listened to Great Park people. They wanted a quicker service to town. Which I remind you was was a consultation back in November last year and the changes didn't come into play till March. The nexus website detailed the Q3 would be moved out of Osborne Road yet here we are in the September changes and look what happened. Q3 cut from Great Park & still serving Osborne Road. So what do they do. Yea let's make a whole.new service. Make it peak times only and confuse the daylight out of the passengers.

Yesterday many people on the Q3X (the about 4 of them) wondering why it doesn't serve Osborne Road. The Q3X is a waste of a service and has no reason to exist. The dest even stats "fast via Great North Road " no it ain't since it stops everywhere so no fast. What makes the X part

(03 Sep 2024, 2:57 pm)Aaron21 wrote I see the wonderful great park people ain't happy with gne changes or in fact anyone. This Q3X is the most pointless service in existence. The nexus timetable details it being 4 minutes quicker than the Q3 half the time. The fact it's just via Great North Road is pathetic

Go North East should have listened to Great Park people. They wanted a quicker service to town. Which I remind you was was a consultation back in November last year and the changes didn't come into play till March. The nexus website detailed the Q3 would be moved out of Osborne Road yet here we are in the September changes and look what happened. Q3 cut from Great Park & still serving Osborne Road. So what do they do. Yea let's make a whole.new service. Make it peak times only and confuse the daylight out of the passengers.

Yesterday many people on the Q3X (the about 4 of them) wondering why it doesn't serve Osborne Road. The Q3X is a waste of a service and has no reason to exist. The dest even stats "fast via Great North Road " no it ain't since it stops everywhere so no fast. What makes the X part

The Great Park got a quicker bus service to Newcastle. A small minority decided that it wasn't the one they wanted though.

The Q3 shouldn't exist, at all, North of Newcastle in it's current form. The Q3 also shouldn't exist East of St Peter's either and that should be an extended 18. It's absolutely ridiculous the tax payer is subsidising 5 buses an hour between St Peter's and Titan Road currently. 

North of Newcastle, it should be 2 services, one doing the X46 route and the other doing the 49 route both half hourly, combining every 15 minutes working with the 43/44/45 to give a 5 minute bus service between North Gosforth and Newcastle.

It's a complete mess and shows deregulation at it's worst.

(03 Sep 2024, 4:16 pm)Storx wrote The Great Park got a quicker bus service to Newcastle. A small minority decided that it wasn't the one they wanted though.

The Q3 shouldn't exist, at all, North of Newcastle in it's current form. The Q3 also shouldn't exist East of St Peter's either and that should be an extended 18. It's absolutely ridiculous the tax payer is subsidising 5 buses an hour between St Peter's and Titan Road currently. 

North of Newcastle, it should be 2 services, one doing the X46 route and the other doing the 49 route both half hourly, combining every 15 minutes working with the 43/44/45 to give a 5 minute bus service between North Gosforth and Newcastle.

It's a complete mess and shows deregulation at it's worst.

The Great Park Transport Advisory Board are effectively a Quango. From everything I've read, they've decided what to do. Be prepared for more of this sort of thing when anybody gets a whiff of power and control.

If the Q3 PVR is down will we see some of the Yutongs debranded soon?