Arriva North East: Latest News & Discussion - April 2013
Arriva North East: Latest News & Discussion - April 2013
Vosa changes (4.4.13).. posted at 9:23am.. more may be added though the day.
PB0002032/9 - ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD, 1 ADMIRAL WAY, DOXFORD INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS PARK, SUNDERLAND, SR3 3XP
Variation Accepted: Operating between Newcastle, Haymarket and Dinnington Village given service number 45 effective from 26-May-2013. To amend Timetable.
PB0002032/340 - ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD, 1 ADMIRAL WAY, DOXFORD INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS PARK, SUNDERLAND, SR3 3XP
Variation Accepted: Operating between Blyth Bus Station and Whitley Bay given service number 53 effective from 26-May-2013. To amend Timetable.
PB0002032/342 - ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD, 1 ADMIRAL WAY, DOXFORD INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS PARK, SUNDERLAND, SR3 3XP
Variation Accepted: Operating between Newcastle, Haymarket Bus Station and Morpeth, Kirkhill given service number 42/43 effective from 26-May-2013. To amend Timetable.
PB0002032/347 - ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD, 1 ADMIRAL WAY, DOXFORD INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS PARK, SUNDERLAND, SR3 3XP
Variation Accepted: Operating between Newcastle, Haymarket Bus Station and Great Park given service number X40 effective from 26-May-2013. To amend Timetable.
(Is this a mistake or do they have thier own X40 around that area?), don't know arriva that well, as my area is stagecoach.
PB0002032/408 - ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD, 1 ADMIRAL WAY, DOXFORD INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS PARK, SUNDERLAND, SR3 3XP
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Great Park and Quorum Business Park given service number 332 effective from 26-May-2013.
PB0002032/442 - ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD, 1 ADMIRAL WAY, DOXFORD INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS PARK, SUNDERLAND, SR3 3XP
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Gosforth East Middle School
Finish Point: Great Park, Warkworth Woods
Via:
Service Number: 158
Service Type: School or Works
Effective Date: 26-MAY-2013
Other Details: School days.
PB0002032/443 - ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD, 1 ADMIRAL WAY, DOXFORD INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS PARK, SUNDERLAND, SR3 3XP
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Westerhope, All Saints College
Finish Point: Kenton Bar
Via:
Service Number: 128
Service Type: School or Works
Effective Date: 26-MAY-2013
Other Details: School days.
PB0002032/444 - ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD, 1 ADMIRAL WAY, DOXFORD INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS PARK, SUNDERLAND, SR3 3XP
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Nuns Moor Park
Finish Point: Gosforth, Central Middle School
Via:
Service Number: 117
Service Type: School or Works
Effective Date: 26-MAY-2013
Other Details: School days.
PB0002032/445 - ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD, 1 ADMIRAL WAY, DOXFORD INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS PARK, SUNDERLAND, SR3 3XP
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Regent Centre
Finish Point: Quorum Business Park
Via:
Service Number: 554
Service Type: Normal Stopping/Hail & Ride
Effective Date: 26-MAY-2013
Other Details: Mondays to Fridays.
(04 Apr 2013, 8:25 am)Michael PB0002032/347 - ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD, 1 ADMIRAL WAY, DOXFORD INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS PARK, SUNDERLAND, SR3 3XP
Variation Accepted: Operating between Newcastle, Haymarket Bus Station and Great Park given service number X40 effective from 26-May-2013. To amend Timetable.
(Is this a mistake or do they have thier own X40 around that area?), don't know arriva that well, as my area is stagecoach.
(04 Apr 2013, 8:25 am)Michael PB0002032/347 - ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD, 1 ADMIRAL WAY, DOXFORD INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS PARK, SUNDERLAND, SR3 3XP
Variation Accepted: Operating between Newcastle, Haymarket Bus Station and Great Park given service number X40 effective from 26-May-2013. To amend Timetable.
(Is this a mistake or do they have thier own X40 around that area?), don't know arriva that well, as my area is stagecoach.
Wonder if the 42, 43, 45 changes are timed to get in the way of the GNE x40 whilst clearing the way for the ANE x40?
If only they made as much effort when they held the contract, then they would still hold it.
The length of time they had to fix the massive amount of complaints they had about the Great Park service, without doing anything seems bonkers.
Does anyone know who will run the Match Day Park and Ride Services? As it was Arriva...
(04 Apr 2013, 10:55 pm)Andreos1 Wonder if the 42, 43, 45 changes are timed to get in the way of the GNE x40 whilst clearing the way for the ANE x40?
If only they made as much effort when they held the contract, then they would still hold it.
The length of time they had to fix the massive amount of complaints they had about the Great Park service, without doing anything seems bonkers.
Does anyone know who will run the Match Day Park and Ride Services? As it was Arriva...
(04 Apr 2013, 10:55 pm)Andreos1 Wonder if the 42, 43, 45 changes are timed to get in the way of the GNE x40 whilst clearing the way for the ANE x40?
If only they made as much effort when they held the contract, then they would still hold it.
The length of time they had to fix the massive amount of complaints they had about the Great Park service, without doing anything seems bonkers.
Does anyone know who will run the Match Day Park and Ride Services? As it was Arriva...
(05 Apr 2013, 6:40 am)Kuyoyo(04 Apr 2013, 10:55 pm)Andreos1 Wonder if the 42, 43, 45 changes are timed to get in the way of the GNE x40 whilst clearing the way for the ANE x40?
If only they made as much effort when they held the contract, then they would still hold it.
The length of time they had to fix the massive amount of complaints they had about the Great Park service, without doing anything seems bonkers.
Does anyone know who will run the Match Day Park and Ride Services? As it was Arriva...
Well, now Arriva are running it commercially, the Contract is effectively null and void, as a contracted service cannot be in competition with a commerical one.
(05 Apr 2013, 6:40 am)Kuyoyo(04 Apr 2013, 10:55 pm)Andreos1 Wonder if the 42, 43, 45 changes are timed to get in the way of the GNE x40 whilst clearing the way for the ANE x40?
If only they made as much effort when they held the contract, then they would still hold it.
The length of time they had to fix the massive amount of complaints they had about the Great Park service, without doing anything seems bonkers.
Does anyone know who will run the Match Day Park and Ride Services? As it was Arriva...
Well, now Arriva are running it commercially, the Contract is effectively null and void, as a contracted service cannot be in competition with a commerical one.
(05 Apr 2013, 10:03 am)Andreos1(05 Apr 2013, 6:40 am)Kuyoyo(04 Apr 2013, 10:55 pm)Andreos1 Wonder if the 42, 43, 45 changes are timed to get in the way of the GNE x40 whilst clearing the way for the ANE x40?
If only they made as much effort when they held the contract, then they would still hold it.
The length of time they had to fix the massive amount of complaints they had about the Great Park service, without doing anything seems bonkers.
Does anyone know who will run the Match Day Park and Ride Services? As it was Arriva...
Well, now Arriva are running it commercially, the Contract is effectively null and void, as a contracted service cannot be in competition with a commerical one.
Not disputing you, but never heard that one before about a contracted service not being allowed to be in competition with a commercial one.
So does that include contracted scholars or other works services running from one defined point and terminating in the same area? Say like a Nexus contracted service from Team Valley contracted to GNE to Heworth, but followed closely behind by a Loop?
Or a DCC service from Park View in Chester le Street, running to Woodstone Village, Bournmoor/Fencehouses behind a 71 or 78?
Then you have the 15/15a, 20/20a and the Bishop/Durham ANE services picking people up from outside the Durham Park and Ride car parks too as well as the Airshow, Gateshead Flower Show/Saltwell Park Fireworks display and Great North Run events when both contracted and commercial services run...
(05 Apr 2013, 10:03 am)Andreos1(05 Apr 2013, 6:40 am)Kuyoyo(04 Apr 2013, 10:55 pm)Andreos1 Wonder if the 42, 43, 45 changes are timed to get in the way of the GNE x40 whilst clearing the way for the ANE x40?
If only they made as much effort when they held the contract, then they would still hold it.
The length of time they had to fix the massive amount of complaints they had about the Great Park service, without doing anything seems bonkers.
Does anyone know who will run the Match Day Park and Ride Services? As it was Arriva...
Well, now Arriva are running it commercially, the Contract is effectively null and void, as a contracted service cannot be in competition with a commerical one.
Not disputing you, but never heard that one before about a contracted service not being allowed to be in competition with a commercial one.
So does that include contracted scholars or other works services running from one defined point and terminating in the same area? Say like a Nexus contracted service from Team Valley contracted to GNE to Heworth, but followed closely behind by a Loop?
Or a DCC service from Park View in Chester le Street, running to Woodstone Village, Bournmoor/Fencehouses behind a 71 or 78?
Then you have the 15/15a, 20/20a and the Bishop/Durham ANE services picking people up from outside the Durham Park and Ride car parks too as well as the Airshow, Gateshead Flower Show/Saltwell Park Fireworks display and Great North Run events when both contracted and commercial services run...
Surely it would depend on whether or not the land is privately owned? So if the landowners at Great Park restricted access to 'pass holders' or contractors (in this case caterers, GNE etc), then Arriva couldn't access the site.
If Arriva feel as though they can operate the service on a commercial basis, then from GNE's point of view, it will boil down to the terms of the contract i.e have GNE been paid up front to deliver the service? Are GNE taking a percentage of all fares? Or is there something where it stiplulates GNE have sole operator access to the site etc.
I can see what your saying about the contract, but surely it is down to the terms within that.
Is it any different to another operator running something to Rainton Bridge? Yes GNE have the contracted 921, 922 and 923, as well as operating the commercial 20a and 35a, but if someone else wishes to run a service to the Nexus stops on a public highway, then I dont understand the problems in them doing so.
Looking at DCC axing the funding for tendered/contracted routes. If GNE/ANE chose to operate those routes commercially, who could stop them?
The contract holder has ended the contract (just as it did with the ANE x40) and it is left to the operators discretion what they then do - in the case of the DCC work, the operators didnt do much. In the case of the Great Park contract, Arriva have taken the decision to operate it themselves.
Great Park is publicly owned land though. Understand there are rising bollards there, but it would be the same situation as Wrekenton bus link, or Doxford International for example. If a genuine bus service wants to serve, they'd have to ensure the bus can drop the rising bollard.
I wasn't aware around contracts being null and void, if it's running in direct competition with a commercial service, as pointed out by Kuyoyo. However, that completely makes sense! I'd be concerned if tax payer money was being thrown at something that someone wants to run as a business anyway.
(05 Apr 2013, 11:57 am)aureolin Great Park is publicly owned land though. Understand there are rising bollards there, but it would be the same situation as Wrekenton bus link, or Doxford International for example. If a genuine bus service wants to serve, they'd have to ensure the bus can drop the rising bollard.
I wasn't aware around contracts being null and void, if it's running in direct competition with a commercial service, as pointed out by Kuyoyo. However, that completely makes sense! I'd be concerned if tax payer money was being thrown at something that someone wants to run as a business anyway.
(05 Apr 2013, 11:57 am)aureolin Great Park is publicly owned land though. Understand there are rising bollards there, but it would be the same situation as Wrekenton bus link, or Doxford International for example. If a genuine bus service wants to serve, they'd have to ensure the bus can drop the rising bollard.
I wasn't aware around contracts being null and void, if it's running in direct competition with a commercial service, as pointed out by Kuyoyo. However, that completely makes sense! I'd be concerned if tax payer money was being thrown at something that someone wants to run as a business anyway.
(05 Apr 2013, 12:02 pm)Andreos1 The thought about tax payer money concerned me, but if the contract was null and void, would compensation (tax payer money) be paid out to GNE, who through no fault of their own, would be out of pocket.
Again, detail like this would be within the contract.
(05 Apr 2013, 12:02 pm)Andreos1 The thought about tax payer money concerned me, but if the contract was null and void, would compensation (tax payer money) be paid out to GNE, who through no fault of their own, would be out of pocket.
Again, detail like this would be within the contract.
The key point here is who is paying for the contract.
If its an organisation that has a social resposibility, nexus, DCC, NCC ect then it is in there best intrests not to secure a service that a operator will run at there own risk or is being contracted to operate.
Anyone with the cash to spend can offer a contract on any grounds they so wish.
You must remember that Secured service and Contracted service are two different things.
I have had a look on the Great Park website. There is a section on there about previous changes to services and may give a clue about funding (obviously the service info is obsolete)
'From Sunday 30th May the network of bus services to NGP was significantly enhanced. The changes include the introduction of a direct link to the City Centre on the new X40 Park and Ride service and the introduction of service 46 between the City Centre and Featherstone Grove. These changes have been introduced in response to requests from local residents and to provide a new service to the new Neighbourhood Centre to the south east of the SAGE building. The service improvements have been funded jointly by the NGP Consortium and Newcastle City Council, who continue to work together to deliver high quality sustainable transport links to and within the NGP development as part of the Travel Plan Strategy. The Travel Plan Strategy sets out the commitment of the NGP Consortium to delivering a wide range of transport projects over the coming months and years, from bus services to cycle paths and lots in between. We'll keep you updated on future plans and improvements and for more information on the new bus services please visit www.nexus.org.uk/bus or email rob.bettison@travelplanservices.co.uk'
Having looked into who the NGP partnership are, these are the developers i.e Persimmion, Barratt. Now either they are funding the service from their own pockets along with Newcastle City Council, or residents pay some sort of service charge, which contributes towards the service.
This sort of thing happens all the time in South Yorkshire, one area I have a bit of experience/knowledge of - quite often happens that another operator wins the evening tender for a route operated by First during the day. First will then operate the evening service commercially, voiding the tender, just to stop other companies getting work. Stagecoach do the same thing.
In this case it could be interesting, as the tender is not paid for by Nexus, it's by Great Park themselves.
As Kuyoyo mentioned the same thing was done by Go North East in Peterlee in October when they lost a lot of the tendered services to another operator, suddenly they became commercially viable and now almost the entire East Durham network is commercially operated mileage (with a few exceptions).
7460 T307 FGN Arriva NE ALX400 on the X24 to Durham
http://www.flickr.com/photos/adammalarke...otostream/