I've noticed on GNE's FB page that loads of complaints have been made about the Fab 56 and it's poor reliability. Here's what I suggest:

- The Sunderland to Newcastle section operates every 15 minutes Monday to Saturday daytime (half hourly evenings and Sundays) with a PVR of 11 B9TL's.

- The Concord to Newcastle section also operates every 15 minutes Monday to Saturday daytime and half hourly until 8-9pm and also half on a Sunday daytime until 6-7pm with the remaining 6 B9TL's.

- All in all, the frequency between Concord and Newcastle would be every 7-8 minutes Monday to Saturday daytime and every 15 minutes during the early - mid evening and also during Sunday daytime.

The 56 delays is because of the road works near Nissan

Why should the Sunderland-Concord part of the route decrease to every 15 mins...?

(27 Sep 2014, 5:51 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote I've noticed on GNE's FB page that loads of complaints have been made about the Fab 56 and it's poor reliability. Here's what I suggest:

- The Sunderland to Newcastle section operates every 15 minutes Monday to Saturday daytime (half hourly evenings and Sundays) with a PVR of 11 B9TL's.

- The Concord to Newcastle section also operates every 15 minutes Monday to Saturday daytime and half hourly until 8-9pm and also half on a Sunday daytime until 6-7pm with the remaining 6 B9TL's.

- All in all, the frequency between Concord and Newcastle would be every 7-8 minutes Monday to Saturday daytime and every 15 minutes during the early - mid evening and also during Sunday daytime.

People complain so half the route lose their current frequency? Ouch...

Not sure the 56 will ever be reliable in its current guise - very similar to the 21, in that the nature of the route (roadworks or not) is going to cause issues.

My own thoughts would be to split the service in someway.

Newcastle - Concord - express to Sunderland via A1231, Waterview Park/Fire Bridge HQ roundabout and then normal route from Southwick.
Concord - Sunderland on current frequency.

Should be doable without changing the fleet about too much.
Not sure about timings, someone may be able to work those out.

(28 Sep 2014, 6:25 pm)Andreos1 wrote Not sure the 56 will ever be reliable in its current guise - very similar to the 21, in that the nature of the route (roadworks or not) is going to cause issues.

My own thoughts would be to split the service in someway.

Newcastle - Concord - express to Sunderland via A1231, Waterview Park/Fire Bridge HQ roundabout and then normal route from Southwick.
Concord - Sunderland on current frequency.

Should be doable without changing the fleet about too much.
Not sure about timings, someone may be able to work those out.

Could it be done by keeping the current 56, but at a 20 minute frequency and introducing a new Express Service like Andreos suggests...

Mu suggestion

X56...Sunderland-Express to Washington Galleries-Springwell-Wrekenton-Express to Gateshead/Newcastle

Keep it at a 10 minute combined frequency

I'd say that due to not only the length of both the 21 and 56 but also the traffic south of Newcastle, that's why they often run late. It's like if the Cradlewell by pass wasn't built nearly 20 year ago, the same problems would happen with the 309 / 310. What GNE could do however, is add 6099 to the board and increase the timings as well as give more layover time at each end.

I think both the Q1 and Q2 should be reduced to operate every 15 minutes, and add a few minutes to the timetable to aid with the sometimes very poor reliability. Are there any Nexus timetables which aren't very tightly timed?

(30 Sep 2014, 3:04 pm)BJ10VUS wrote I think both the Q1 and Q2 should be reduced to operate every 15 minutes, and add a few minutes to the timetable to aid with the sometimes very poor reliability. Are there any Nexus timetables which aren't very tightly timed?

Would seem better, no one ever uses it


I think in the next few months we might see GNE do a trail run on the X7 both evenings and Sundays... 

(02 Oct 2014, 1:20 pm)Michael wrote Would seem better, no one ever uses it


I think in the next few months we might see GNE do a trail run on the X7 both evenings and Sundays... 

I would be a good idea to run on a Sunday, even if it was shortened to turn round at Seaham, Peterlee or even go into Dalton Park on Sundays...

I imagine it would get quite good numbers on a Sunday morning to Sunday Mid-Afternoon, there is a load of people who goto the Car Boot Sale near Seaham Hall, put a bus stop close to the Car Boot entrance and I reckon it will work without too much of an effort

X34 - Hartlepool - Peterlee - Easington Lane - Rainton Bridge Npower - Houghton le Spring - Doxford International - Sunderland

62 - Sunderland - Grangetown - Ryhope - New Seaham - Dalton Park - Murton - Hetton le Hole - Rainton Bridge Npower

(02 Oct 2014, 5:08 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote X34 - Hartlepool - Peterlee - Easington Lane - Rainton Bridge Npower - Houghton le Spring - Doxford International - Sunderland

62 - Sunderland - Grangetown - Ryhope - New Seaham - Dalton Park - Murton - Hetton le Hole - Rainton Bridge Npower

How about this

Combine it with the 61 and run on a loop

Something like this

Modified 61: Sunderland-Grangetown-Ryhope-Dalton Park-Murton(Woods Terrace, Pit Road, Cornwall Estate, Webb Avenue, Barnes Road, Station Estate), it would change number at either Dalton Park or Murton Station to 62 and head to Rainton the way... you suggest and from there closely follow the 20/20A/X35 route from Houghton-Sunderland

Apologies if I am over complicating thingds here

Or just go back towards Murton after reaching Doc Park?

(02 Oct 2014, 6:27 pm)marxistafozzski wrote How about this

Combine it with the 61 and run on a loop

Something like this

Modified 61: Sunderland-Grangetown-Ryhope-Dalton Park-Murton(Woods Terrace, Pit Road, Cornwall Estate, Webb Avenue, Barnes Road, Station Estate), it would change number at either Dalton Park or Murton Station to 62 and head to Rainton the way... you suggest and from there closely follow the 20/20A/X35 route from Houghton-Sunderland

Apologies if I am over complicating thingds here

To be fair it would actually be easier just extend the current 61 from Murton to Rainton Bridge, rather than have a Brand New Route which more or less duplicates it.

(02 Oct 2014, 7:09 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote To be fair it would actually be easier just extend the current 61 from Murton to Rainton Bridge, rather than have a Brand New Route which more or less duplicates it.

I see what you mean mate, I would keep the 61 as it is, every 15 minutes and slot your Rainton Bridge idea into that, 1ph to start with Murton-Sunderland would have a combined 12 minute frequency, if it was a success, slot another one in, possibly extend it onto Houghton...

61Auplicate 61 to Murton Station then Hetton-North Road-Rainton Bridge-Houghton

Gives Murton a link to Houghton

Not sure what PVR would be needed, am I right in saying the 61 currently has a PVR of 5 during the day, I am guessing your idea would require a PVR of 7/8

(02 Oct 2014, 1:20 pm)Michael wrote Would seem better, no one ever uses it

The Q1 currently takes 18 minutes from Gateshead Interchange to Central Station and 16 minutes going the other way. I think adding at least 3 minutes could stop running in twos, but could also reduce the PVR from 4 to 3.

A round trip on the Q2 takes 37 minutes, although I think that a few minutes could also be added. On a 15 minute frequency, rather than 10, the PVR could be reduced from 4 to 3.

Not sure where two Versas could go? Possibly a spare for 'The Orbit' and 'South Tyne'?

(02 Oct 2014, 7:37 pm)BJ10VUS wrote The Q1 currently takes 18 minutes from Gateshead Interchange to Central Station and 16 minutes going the other way. I think adding at least 3 minutes could stop running in twos, but could also reduce the PVR from 4 to 3.

A round trip on the Q2 takes 37 minutes, although I think that a few minutes could also be added. On a 15 minute frequency, rather than 10, the PVR could be reduced from 4 to 3.

Not sure where two Versas could go? Possibly a spare for 'The Orbit' and 'South Tyne'?

Having another Versa for the South Tyne would be good.
At least then, Saturdays and school holidays could see a full branded allocation opposed to one Scania and the rest branded (required Mon-Fri for the scholar contract requirement).

(02 Oct 2014, 7:42 pm)Dan wrote Having another Versa for the South Tyne would be good.
At least then, Saturdays and school holidays could see a full branded allocation opposed to one Scania and the rest branded (required Mon-Fri for the scholar contract requirement).

The South Tyne 88 no longer runs onto the scholars 819 so the addition of another Versa would be useful to standardise the 88/88A allocation.

Would fancy Malarkey taking on the Nexus 23 route (Barley Mow - Washington)

Perhaps an extended 82/83

My only observations would be axing the short and fresh air carrying short runs between Barley Mow and Birtley Crematorium if that helps with working

Sorry guys but I've just managed to work this one out:

If GNE ever decided to increase both the 309 / 310 to both every 30 minutes each during the evening (15 mins between Cobalt South and Newcastle) but only wanted to add 1 extra bus, they could do this:

- 58 would remain unchanged. No 310's would be re-routed via Hadrian Park and would just serve normal route.

- 310 would operate every 30 minutes throughout the whole route with no evening PVR change which currently stands at 3.

- 309 would operate every 30 minutes between Newcastle and Whitley Bay continuing to Blyth hourly. The Newcastle to Blyth runs would operate with a PVR of 2 as it does now. However, the Newcastle to Whitley Bay run PVR would be 1 but it would interwork with some 17A journeys.

- The 17A would only operate to Whitley Bay Town Centre and not the seafront during the evenings. It would have 1 hourly board between Wallsend Metro and Whitley Bay Town Centre operating with a PVR of 2 MPD's. Buses would have a 2 minute layover at Wallsend Metro and a 23 minute layover in Whitley Bay Town Centre but reliability shouldn't be an issue during the evening with it being a local route. There would however be another hourly running board (making up the 30 minute 17A frequency) including the short 309 workings with a PVR of 3 B9TL's but branding shouldn't be an issue and would perhaps create more brand awareness of the Cobalt Clipper. The fuel costs shouldn't be much more than a B10BLE and should be the same if not slightly cheaper after the flybrid technology has been fitted next year. The timings would something like this:

17A / 309 with a PVR of 3 B9TL's:
Haymarket (309): 15
Whitley Bay Park Avenue (309): 52
Whitley Bay HSBC (17A): 55
Wallsend Metro (17A): 43
Wallsend Metro (17A): 45
Whitley Bay Park Avenue (17A): 32
Whitley Bay HSBC (309): 35
Haymarket (309): 12

17A with a PVR of 2 MPD's:
Whitley Bay HSBC (17A): 25
Wallsend Metro (17A): 13
Wallsend Metro (17A): 15
Whitley Bay Park Avenue (17A): 02

Also, this would save on fuel costs with the pool van for the additional 309 journeys between Newcastle and Whitley Bay not being required to go all the way to New York and a change over would either happen in North Shields or if the office is closed, in Percy Main with only a short drive required from the depot on Norham Road. At the end of the day, Arriva interwork the X21/35 with Sapphire E400's during the evenings and on Sundays so the branding shouldn't be an issue neither should the vehicle type be.

(04 Oct 2014, 7:12 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote Sorry guys but I've just managed to work this one out:

If GNE ever decided to increase both the 309 / 310 to both every 30 minutes each during the evening (15 mins between Cobalt South and Newcastle) but only wanted to add 1 extra bus, they could do this:

- 58 would remain unchanged. No 310's would be re-routed via Hadrian Park and would just serve normal route.

- 310 would operate every 30 minutes throughout the whole route with no evening PVR change which currently stands at 3.

- 309 would operate every 30 minutes between Newcastle and Whitley Bay continuing to Blyth hourly. The Newcastle to Blyth runs would operate with a PVR of 2 as it does now. However, the Newcastle to Whitley Bay run PVR would be 1 but it would interwork with some 17A journeys.

- The 17A would only operate to Whitley Bay Town Centre and not the seafront during the evenings. It would have 1 hourly board between Wallsend Metro and Whitley Bay Town Centre operating with a PVR of 2 MPD's. Buses would have a 2 minute layover at Wallsend Metro and a 23 minute layover in Whitley Bay Town Centre but reliability shouldn't be an issue during the evening with it being a local route. There would however be another hourly running board (making up the 30 minute 17A frequency) including the short 309 workings with a PVR of 3 B9TL's but branding shouldn't be an issue and would perhaps create more brand awareness of the Cobalt Clipper. The fuel costs shouldn't be much more than a B10BLE and should be the same if not slightly cheaper after the flybrid technology has been fitted next year. The timings would something like this:

17A / 309 with a PVR of 3 B9TL's:
Haymarket (309): 15
Whitley Bay Park Avenue (309): 52
Whitley Bay HSBC (17A): 55
Wallsend Metro (17A): 43
Wallsend Metro (17A): 45
Whitley Bay Park Avenue (17A): 32
Whitley Bay HSBC (309): 35
Haymarket (309): 12

17A with a PVR of 2 MPD's:
Whitley Bay HSBC (17A): 25
Wallsend Metro (17A): 13
Wallsend Metro (17A): 15
Whitley Bay Park Avenue (17A): 02

Also, this would save on fuel costs with the pool van for the additional 309 journeys between Newcastle and Whitley Bay not being required to go all the way to New York and a change over would either happen in North Shields or if the office is closed, in Percy Main with only a short drive required from the depot on Norham Road. At the end of the day, Arriva interwork the X21/35 with Sapphire E400's during the evenings and on Sundays so the branding shouldn't be an issue neither should the vehicle type be.

17 doesn't justify B9TLs.

(04 Oct 2014, 8:01 pm)Tom wrote 17 doesn't justify B9TLs.

Looks like Davey is Firing Blanks

But it would only be during the evenings (not on Sundays) and on an hourly basis out of the 2x journeys ph that the 17A would run using a B9TL. Just think of it like how ANE interwork the X21 and 35 on an evening. And my mistake about the 310, the current evening PVR is 2 so there would be 2 extra buses including the one for the short 309 and 17A  that would be required. One 17A per hour would still run using MPD's on a board just for the 17A

Can anyone confirm if the 93/94 are secured on a night/Sunday around the East Gateshead Industrial areas or if they are commercial?
Apart from a match day, once the factories close and college classes end, there seems to be very little passenger demand.

Probably worth re-routing in full or part.

(08 Oct 2014, 8:30 am)Andreos1 wrote Can anyone confirm if the 93/94 are secured on a night/Sunday around the East Gateshead Industrial areas or if they are commercial?
Apart from a match day, once the factories close and college classes end, there seems to be very little passenger demand.

Probably worth re-routing in full or part.

You still have the Old Fold and, potentially, residents from the Gateshead Quays area (e.g. those luxury flats which are apparently mostly empty) who might use those services.

  

*New Service*
55 - Washington Galleries - Glebe - Washington Village - Barmston - Peel Retail Park - Sulgrave - Concord - Donwell - Springwell Village - Wrekenton - Q.E. Hospital - Gateshead Interchange - Newcastle City Centre
Operating Every 30 Minutes providing a Bus 5/6 Minutes or Less from Washington Galleries/Concord to Newcastle City Centre alongside Services 56 and X1.

X56 - Sunderland - Monkwearmouth - Carley Hill - Witherwack - Hylton Red House - Downhill - Boldon - Wardley - Heworth - Gateshead Interchange - Newcastle Eldon Square 
A simple Re-Numbering/Rebranding of the Current X36, I would think this would entice current FAB56 Passengers to use the Service a lot more from Sunderland and Newcastle, Maintaining Current Frequency of Every 30 Minutes.

56 - Sunderland - Southwick - Hylton Castle - Nissan - Sulgrave - Concord - Donwell - Springwell Village - Wrekenton - Q.E. Hospital - Gateshead Interchange - Newcastle City Centre
57 - Newcastle City Centre - Gateshead Interchange - Q.E. Hospital - Beacon Lough Estate - Leam Lane Estate - Heworth - West Boldon - Hylton Castle - Southwick - Sunderland
Operating a Combined Frequency of Every 7/8 Minutes Between Sunderland and Newcastle with Service 57 providing New Links to Sunderland from Beacon Lough/Leam Lane Estate and West Boldon, Service 58 Extends to Wardley in place of the 57 which will Non Stop between Heworth and West Boldon.

58 - Wardley - Heworth - Leam Lane Estate - Felling Square - Deckham - Gateshead Interchange - Newcastle City Centre 
59 - Heworth - Leam Lane Estate - Felling Square - Deckham - Gateshead Interchange - Newcastle City Centre - Coast Road - Battle Hill Drive - Hadrian Park
Service 58 Extends to Wardley in place of Service 57, While the Extended 58 Runs to Hadrian Park are Re-Numbered to Service 59, Operating a Combined Every 10 Minutes.

(10 Oct 2014, 6:47 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote X56 - Sunderland - Monkwearmouth - Carley Hill - Witherwack - Hylton Red House - Downhill - Boldon - Wardley - Heworth - Gateshead Interchange - Newcastle Eldon Square 
A simple Re-Numbering/Rebranding of the Current X36, I would think this would entice current FAB56 Passengers to use the Service a lot more from Sunderland and Newcastle, Maintaining Current Frequency of Every 30 Minutes.

56 - Sunderland - Southwick - Hylton Castle - Nissan - Sulgrave - Concord - Donwell - Springwell Village - Wrekenton - Q.E. Hospital - Gateshead Interchange - Newcastle City Centre
57 - Newcastle City Centre - Gateshead Interchange - Q.E. Hospital - Beacon Lough Estate - Leam Lane Estate - Heworth - West Boldon - Hylton Castle - Southwick - Sunderland
Operating a Combined Frequency of Every 7/8 Minutes Between Sunderland and Newcastle with Service 57 providing New Links to Sunderland from Beacon Lough/Leam Lane Estate and West Boldon, Service 58 Extends to Wardley in place of the 57 which will Non Stop between Heworth and West Boldon.

I have to say i like these ideas, what buses would the X56 and 57 use? 

(10 Oct 2014, 6:53 pm)Michael wrote I have to say i like these ideas, what buses would the X56 and 57 use? 

With the Reduction in Freequency on the 56, this would allows 50% of the 56's PVR to become Available, so therefore it could use the B9TL's but may need a 3 or 4 more Vehicles on top of that, not entirely sure though.

@AdamY
It would still be worth sending round the Old Fold, but I would miss out the section between Neilson Road and the college. Never seen it stop at any of the those stops beyond 9pm, unless there is a match on.

Another underused portion of a service on a night is the Gillas Lane section of the 20. Maybe worth alternating the half hourly 20, so that one does the 20 route, the other the 20a. The 20a couldn't pick any fewer people up than the 20 does at times and could be timed to alternate with the 4 along Dairy Lane.

(10 Oct 2014, 9:14 pm)Andreos1 wrote @AdamY
It would still be worth sending round the Old Fold, but I would miss out the section between Neilson Road and the college. Never seen it stop at any of the those stops beyond 9pm, unless there is a match on.

It would be interesting to see how much time (and mileage) would be saved by re-routing these services via Felling-by-Pass and Park Lane instead of Neilson Road, Saltmeadows Road and Hawkes Road on an Evening and Sunday. I can't see it being much though.