Arriva Future Orders
Arriva Future Orders
(30 Sep 2020, 8:51 am)mb134 It'll likely end up being sold off bit by bit - I wouldn't be at all surprised if the North East ops got split back into Northumbria and Durham County in any sale. The culture and mindset has always seemed to differ hugely between them.My prediction if the NE ops get sold:
Look at the Ashington, Blyth and Jesmond operations and imagine what someone like Alex Hornby would do with them, with Transdev behind it.
(30 Sep 2020, 8:51 am)mb134 It'll likely end up being sold off bit by bit - I wouldn't be at all surprised if the North East ops got split back into Northumbria and Durham County in any sale. The culture and mindset has always seemed to differ hugely between them.My prediction if the NE ops get sold:
Look at the Ashington, Blyth and Jesmond operations and imagine what someone like Alex Hornby would do with them, with Transdev behind it.
(30 Sep 2020, 1:43 pm)solsburian There was seemingly a lull in batch ordering during that period though, particularly with for larger buses until 2007 or so with the Enviros. Of course things shouldn't be replaced for the sake of it though I'm sure some of the fleet at the time would have faired much better with a GNE style refurb, or at least had a frequent cleaning regime.
TBH the Cityzens probably should have gone much sooner, they were absolute heaps from a fairly young age. I have "fond" memories of the leaking water through the light fittings, cracks where daylight would appear when going round a corner and mouldy side carpets.
(30 Sep 2020, 5:56 pm)L469 YVK My prediction if the NE ops get sold:
- Ashington > GNE
- Blyth > Stagecoach
- Jesmond > GNE & split between Riverside / Percy Main with a new depot replacing Percy Main. Stagecoach get 685 and 306
- Darlington & Belmont > Stagecoach with them also getting X12
- Stockton > GNE with X9/X10 moved or shared with Riverside
- Redcar & Whitby >Transdev
Fleet wise, I wouldn't see GNE wanting 7541-7552 due to shorter length & Voith gearboxes so I'd imagine they'd strike a deal with Stagecoach in return for extra VDL DB300s. Would come in handy for Misc & School workings as well as a few rare ventures out on the X30/X70/X71 due to their low height. Don't know what the PVR is but 7541-52 would perhaps come in handy on the Stagecoach 1 (Slatyford) due to their shorter length & tight turns & streets on the route.
(30 Sep 2020, 1:43 pm)solsburian There was seemingly a lull in batch ordering during that period though, particularly with for larger buses until 2007 or so with the Enviros. Of course things shouldn't be replaced for the sake of it though I'm sure some of the fleet at the time would have faired much better with a GNE style refurb, or at least had a frequent cleaning regime.
TBH the Cityzens probably should have gone much sooner, they were absolute heaps from a fairly young age. I have "fond" memories of the leaking water through the light fittings, cracks where daylight would appear when going round a corner and mouldy side carpets.
(30 Sep 2020, 5:56 pm)L469 YVK My prediction if the NE ops get sold:
- Ashington > GNE
- Blyth > Stagecoach
- Jesmond > GNE & split between Riverside / Percy Main with a new depot replacing Percy Main. Stagecoach get 685 and 306
- Darlington & Belmont > Stagecoach with them also getting X12
- Stockton > GNE with X9/X10 moved or shared with Riverside
- Redcar & Whitby >Transdev
Fleet wise, I wouldn't see GNE wanting 7541-7552 due to shorter length & Voith gearboxes so I'd imagine they'd strike a deal with Stagecoach in return for extra VDL DB300s. Would come in handy for Misc & School workings as well as a few rare ventures out on the X30/X70/X71 due to their low height. Don't know what the PVR is but 7541-52 would perhaps come in handy on the Stagecoach 1 (Slatyford) due to their shorter length & tight turns & streets on the route.
I can't see GNE or Stagecoach wanting the Arriva operations. The only depot making any kind of profit was Blyth, Ashington barely broke even and Jesmond has been a loss maker for years, add in covid and it becomes even less attractive.
(30 Sep 2020, 7:05 pm)Driver9*** I can't see GNE or Stagecoach wanting the Arriva operations. The only depot making any kind of profit was Blyth, Ashington barely broke even and Jesmond has been a loss maker for years, add in covid and it becomes even less attractive.
(30 Sep 2020, 7:05 pm)Driver9*** I can't see GNE or Stagecoach wanting the Arriva operations. The only depot making any kind of profit was Blyth, Ashington barely broke even and Jesmond has been a loss maker for years, add in covid and it becomes even less attractive.
(30 Sep 2020, 7:05 pm)Driver9*** I can't see GNE or Stagecoach wanting the Arriva operations. The only depot making any kind of profit was Blyth, Ashington barely broke even and Jesmond has been a loss maker for years, add in covid and it becomes even less attractive.
(30 Sep 2020, 7:05 pm)Driver9*** I can't see GNE or Stagecoach wanting the Arriva operations. The only depot making any kind of profit was Blyth, Ashington barely broke even and Jesmond has been a loss maker for years, add in covid and it becomes even less attractive.
(30 Sep 2020, 6:45 pm)Storx I know your trying to do this for competition reasons but Blyth, Jesmond and Ashington need to go to the same operator (and not GNE - they've already butchered N. Tyneside as it is).
That's exactly what the CMA would want.
As others have said I'd rather have someone like Transdev personally to bring something new to the area who don't cut services all the time and are actually quite creative at times but aren't Arriva just getting floated on the stock exchange instead now anyway rather than sold..?
Redcar & Whitby would fit their profile a lot better and potentially tie in with their existing North Yorks Blazefield operations.
Also why would GNE want DB300's when they're all based at Blyth and already have Enviros in their fleet it makes no sense to bring a random bus into the fleet that they've never worked with and never will work with since Arriva own the VDL rights in the UK and the 308 ones can't move out of N. Tyneside anyway as they've had Euro 6 mods done.
Arriva's 7541-7552 in comparison to GNE's 6338-6355 are not to GNE's spec. Wrong seats, wrong length and wrong gearbox to start with. These would be perfect for Stagecoach particularly on tighter routes either in Newcastle or elsewhere. On the other hand, DB300's would fill the role perfectly fulfilled by GNE's B7TLs and OmniDekkas. Don't know if they'd cope with some of the more fierce parts of the X70/X71 though if they had to cover for a 'low height' decker on the X30/X70/X71 board haha!
(30 Sep 2020, 6:45 pm)Storx I know your trying to do this for competition reasons but Blyth, Jesmond and Ashington need to go to the same operator (and not GNE - they've already butchered N. Tyneside as it is).
That's exactly what the CMA would want.
As others have said I'd rather have someone like Transdev personally to bring something new to the area who don't cut services all the time and are actually quite creative at times but aren't Arriva just getting floated on the stock exchange instead now anyway rather than sold..?
Redcar & Whitby would fit their profile a lot better and potentially tie in with their existing North Yorks Blazefield operations.
Also why would GNE want DB300's when they're all based at Blyth and already have Enviros in their fleet it makes no sense to bring a random bus into the fleet that they've never worked with and never will work with since Arriva own the VDL rights in the UK and the 308 ones can't move out of N. Tyneside anyway as they've had Euro 6 mods done.
Arriva's 7541-7552 in comparison to GNE's 6338-6355 are not to GNE's spec. Wrong seats, wrong length and wrong gearbox to start with. These would be perfect for Stagecoach particularly on tighter routes either in Newcastle or elsewhere. On the other hand, DB300's would fill the role perfectly fulfilled by GNE's B7TLs and OmniDekkas. Don't know if they'd cope with some of the more fierce parts of the X70/X71 though if they had to cover for a 'low height' decker on the X30/X70/X71 board haha!
(30 Sep 2020, 10:39 am)V514DFT I agree, i cant really comment on Blyth services, but i know the 08 solos are showing their age now big time,some of them sound like crap aswellThe entire minibus fleet is an absolute disgrace. I think the newest Solos are 9 or 10 years old, Blyth and Ashington are still using 15 year old Darts.
(30 Sep 2020, 10:39 am)V514DFT I agree, i cant really comment on Blyth services, but i know the 08 solos are showing their age now big time,some of them sound like crap aswellThe entire minibus fleet is an absolute disgrace. I think the newest Solos are 9 or 10 years old, Blyth and Ashington are still using 15 year old Darts.
(30 Sep 2020, 7:20 pm)L469 YVK
- I know your trying to do this for competition reasons but Blyth, Jesmond and Ashington need to go to the same operator (and not GNE - they've already butchered N. Tyneside as it is). That's exactly what the CMA would want.As others have said I'd rather have someone like Transdev personally to bring something new to the area who don't cut services all the time and are actually quite creative at times but aren't Arriva just getting floated on the stock exchange instead now anyway rather than sold..?Redcar & Whitby would fit their profile a lot better and potentially tie in with their existing North Yorks Blazefield operations.Also why would GNE want DB300's when they're all based at Blyth and already have Enviros in their fleet it makes no sense to bring a random bus into the fleet that they've never worked with and never will work with since Arriva own the VDL rights in the UK and the 308 ones can't move out of N. Tyneside anyway as they've had Euro 6 mods done.Arriva's 7541-7552 in comparison to GNE's 6338-6355 are not to GNE's spec. Wrong seats, wrong length and wrong gearbox to start with. These would be perfect for Stagecoach particularly on tighter routes either in Newcastle or elsewhere. On the other hand, DB300's would fill the role perfectly fulfilled by GNE's B7TLs and OmniDekkas. Don't know if they'd cope with some of the more fierce parts of the X70/X71 though if they had to cover for a 'low height' decker on the X30/X70/X71 board haha!
(30 Sep 2020, 7:20 pm)L469 YVK
- I know your trying to do this for competition reasons but Blyth, Jesmond and Ashington need to go to the same operator (and not GNE - they've already butchered N. Tyneside as it is). That's exactly what the CMA would want.As others have said I'd rather have someone like Transdev personally to bring something new to the area who don't cut services all the time and are actually quite creative at times but aren't Arriva just getting floated on the stock exchange instead now anyway rather than sold..?Redcar & Whitby would fit their profile a lot better and potentially tie in with their existing North Yorks Blazefield operations.Also why would GNE want DB300's when they're all based at Blyth and already have Enviros in their fleet it makes no sense to bring a random bus into the fleet that they've never worked with and never will work with since Arriva own the VDL rights in the UK and the 308 ones can't move out of N. Tyneside anyway as they've had Euro 6 mods done.Arriva's 7541-7552 in comparison to GNE's 6338-6355 are not to GNE's spec. Wrong seats, wrong length and wrong gearbox to start with. These would be perfect for Stagecoach particularly on tighter routes either in Newcastle or elsewhere. On the other hand, DB300's would fill the role perfectly fulfilled by GNE's B7TLs and OmniDekkas. Don't know if they'd cope with some of the more fierce parts of the X70/X71 though if they had to cover for a 'low height' decker on the X30/X70/X71 board haha!
(30 Sep 2020, 7:47 pm)Storx I know where your coming from but for someone living in the area it would be horrendous. It's bad enough as it is the fact we have a Metro line 2 mile away and the only ticket you can use on both is a £10.90 explorer ticket or pay a inflated price for a return on the bus by both GNE (19) - £4 or something stupid now I believe and Arriva (57) - £3.401 & 2 would be Stagecoach as they're Blyth routes. Agree with what you're saying but would the CMA agree after the red meat fiasco?
At least we can get a bus pass we can use to Newcastle, Whitley, Cramlington, Blyth etc. If you split the depots we'd need one for Newcastle / Blyth then a second one for Whitley / Cramlington. You don't realise how much you'd cripple the network around here which would lead to cuts (X7, tagged onto the end of the X63) sort of stunts leading to less people using buses, night buses gone and so on. At Blyth the X10/X11/308 might do well but the rest of the routes would really struggle.
Jesmond less so but Ashington and Blyth badly need to be the same operator or you'd cripple the SE Northumberland network as similar patterns would happen in other areas aswell. Cowpen for example has 3 services X8 (Stagecoach), 1 and 2 (GNE) it just wouldn't work. Bedlington Station. 1 (Stagecoach), 19 (GNE), X21 (GNE) for another. Once the train comes (if it does) it'll be ever worse as all 3 of those places will have the train aswell.
Agreed on Whitby being a good combination for Transdev though.
(30 Sep 2020, 7:47 pm)Storx I know where your coming from but for someone living in the area it would be horrendous. It's bad enough as it is the fact we have a Metro line 2 mile away and the only ticket you can use on both is a £10.90 explorer ticket or pay a inflated price for a return on the bus by both GNE (19) - £4 or something stupid now I believe and Arriva (57) - £3.401 & 2 would be Stagecoach as they're Blyth routes. Agree with what you're saying but would the CMA agree after the red meat fiasco?
At least we can get a bus pass we can use to Newcastle, Whitley, Cramlington, Blyth etc. If you split the depots we'd need one for Newcastle / Blyth then a second one for Whitley / Cramlington. You don't realise how much you'd cripple the network around here which would lead to cuts (X7, tagged onto the end of the X63) sort of stunts leading to less people using buses, night buses gone and so on. At Blyth the X10/X11/308 might do well but the rest of the routes would really struggle.
Jesmond less so but Ashington and Blyth badly need to be the same operator or you'd cripple the SE Northumberland network as similar patterns would happen in other areas aswell. Cowpen for example has 3 services X8 (Stagecoach), 1 and 2 (GNE) it just wouldn't work. Bedlington Station. 1 (Stagecoach), 19 (GNE), X21 (GNE) for another. Once the train comes (if it does) it'll be ever worse as all 3 of those places will have the train aswell.
Agreed on Whitby being a good combination for Transdev though.
Would the CMA have an issue with GNE buying back the routes they sold to Arriva when they got rid of Bishop? As far as I know, it was a one way deal as in GNE didn't get any routes in return like they did when they swapped Hexham.
Which services were actually involved in that deal? I can't find any information about it online
(30 Sep 2020, 8:59 pm)L469 YVK 1 & 2 would be Stagecoach as they're Blyth routes. Agree with what you're saying but would the CMA agree after the red meat fiasco?
(30 Sep 2020, 8:59 pm)L469 YVK 1 & 2 would be Stagecoach as they're Blyth routes. Agree with what you're saying but would the CMA agree after the red meat fiasco?
I'd imagine there'd be competition issues with either Stagecoach or GAG if they were to look into taking over any ANE depots - though Stagecoach probably less so.
Aside from Stagecoach and GAG, the only real contender would be Transdev. First are in an even worse position than Arriva, I don't see NatEx wanting any and below that I doubt anyone would be an improvement on the current regime.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind Stagecoach coming into Northumberland. They know how to procure appropriate vehicles for express routes, they have a smart and professional brand and have a higher base standard than most other companies. Aside from that Transdev, with a similar approach to Blazefield, would also be interesting.
(30 Sep 2020, 7:05 pm)Driver9*** I can't see GNE or Stagecoach wanting the Arriva operations. The only depot making any kind of profit was Blyth, Ashington barely broke even and Jesmond has been a loss maker for years, add in covid and it becomes even less attractive.
(30 Sep 2020, 7:05 pm)Driver9*** I can't see GNE or Stagecoach wanting the Arriva operations. The only depot making any kind of profit was Blyth, Ashington barely broke even and Jesmond has been a loss maker for years, add in covid and it becomes even less attractive.
(30 Sep 2020, 9:45 pm)mb134 I'd imagine there'd be competition issues with either Stagecoach or GAG if they were to look into taking over any ANE depots - though Stagecoach probably less so.
Aside from Stagecoach and GAG, the only real contender would be Transdev. First are in an even worse position than Arriva, I don't see NatEx wanting any and below that I doubt anyone would be an improvement on the current regime.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind Stagecoach coming into Northumberland. They know how to procure appropriate vehicles for express routes, they have a smart and professional brand and have a higher base standard than most other companies. Aside from that Transdev, with a similar approach to Blazefield, would also be interesting.
(30 Sep 2020, 9:45 pm)mb134 I'd imagine there'd be competition issues with either Stagecoach or GAG if they were to look into taking over any ANE depots - though Stagecoach probably less so.
Aside from Stagecoach and GAG, the only real contender would be Transdev. First are in an even worse position than Arriva, I don't see NatEx wanting any and below that I doubt anyone would be an improvement on the current regime.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind Stagecoach coming into Northumberland. They know how to procure appropriate vehicles for express routes, they have a smart and professional brand and have a higher base standard than most other companies. Aside from that Transdev, with a similar approach to Blazefield, would also be interesting.
(30 Sep 2020, 9:56 pm)mb134 2018 accounts for Northumbria reported a £1.2m profit after tax, so I highly doubt that only Blyth was making "any kind of profit". Most recent accounts for GNE have their profit at £2.8m after tax - so there's not a huge difference (when we take into account that that's only half of ANEs accounts).
Equally, you say that Ashington barely broke even - that'll be why they have (by far) the newest fleet out of the three depots then...
(30 Sep 2020, 9:56 pm)mb134 2018 accounts for Northumbria reported a £1.2m profit after tax, so I highly doubt that only Blyth was making "any kind of profit". Most recent accounts for GNE have their profit at £2.8m after tax - so there's not a huge difference (when we take into account that that's only half of ANEs accounts).
Equally, you say that Ashington barely broke even - that'll be why they have (by far) the newest fleet out of the three depots then...
(30 Sep 2020, 10:02 pm)streetdeckfan With GNE, you also have to take into account that they've actually made investments in the fleet and built a new depot, so that would take up some of their profits
The fact that Arriva have made little to no investment, and only made £1.2 million in profit is quite worrying.
That's only averaging just over £3,000 profit per day
Or about £18 per vehicle per day (assuming I got my maths right!)
(30 Sep 2020, 10:02 pm)streetdeckfan With GNE, you also have to take into account that they've actually made investments in the fleet and built a new depot, so that would take up some of their profits
The fact that Arriva have made little to no investment, and only made £1.2 million in profit is quite worrying.
That's only averaging just over £3,000 profit per day
Or about £18 per vehicle per day (assuming I got my maths right!)
(30 Sep 2020, 10:02 pm)streetdeckfan With GNE, you also have to take into account that they've actually made investments in the fleet and built a new depot, so that would take up some of their profits
The fact that Arriva have made little to no investment, and only made £1.2 million in profit is quite worrying.
That's only averaging just over £3,000 profit per day
Or about £18 per vehicle per day (assuming I got my maths right!)
(30 Sep 2020, 10:02 pm)streetdeckfan With GNE, you also have to take into account that they've actually made investments in the fleet and built a new depot, so that would take up some of their profits
The fact that Arriva have made little to no investment, and only made £1.2 million in profit is quite worrying.
That's only averaging just over £3,000 profit per day
Or about £18 per vehicle per day (assuming I got my maths right!)
(30 Sep 2020, 10:11 pm)Storx Investments don't affect profits or losses. Just saying.
(30 Sep 2020, 10:11 pm)Storx Investments don't affect profits or losses. Just saying.
(30 Sep 2020, 10:14 pm)streetdeckfan But aren't the vehicles purchased by the group rather than GNE themselves and then 'leased' so would go down as an expense?
(30 Sep 2020, 10:14 pm)streetdeckfan But aren't the vehicles purchased by the group rather than GNE themselves and then 'leased' so would go down as an expense?