Looks like the extension to Amazon in Washington is doing well, spotted this on Dan's Twitter:

Significant passenger growth on our Connections4 service to
@AmazonUK at Follingsby Park has seen additional duplicate runs added to the timetable, with even more to follow from the end of this month. Excellent that so many of their Associates are choosing bus to travel to work


https://twitter.com/Dan3942/status/1449426585589800962



Looks like more Amazon runs are being added, which is brilliant.

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As the September changes thread was closed, I had to make a new one - couldn't find an existing thread to place it in.

(17 Oct 2021, 11:03 am)Michael wrote Looks like the extension to Amazon in Washington is doing well, spotted this on Dan's Twitter:

Significant passenger growth on our Connections4 service to
@AmazonUK at Follingsby Park has seen additional duplicate runs added to the timetable, with even more to follow from the end of this month. Excellent that so many of their Associates are choosing bus to travel to work


https://twitter.com/Dan3942/status/1449426585589800962



Looks like more Amazon runs are being added, which is brilliant.

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As the September changes thread was closed, I had to make a new one - couldn't find an existing thread to place it in.

It's a shame there aren't any bus services for Amazon Durham, the nearest bus stop is Bowburn which is quite a trek.
They had a private bus service from Durham but I believe due to low numbers it was withdrawn.

My brother works there, and now has no choice but to get a lift into work every morning as it's impossible for him to travel by bus and get there on time

(17 Oct 2021, 11:11 am)streetdeckfan wrote It's a shame there aren't any bus services for Amazon Durham, the nearest bus stop is Bowburn which is quite a trek.
They had a private bus service from Durham but I believe due to low numbers it was withdrawn.

My brother works there, and now has no choice but to get a lift into work every morning as it's impossible for him to travel by bus and get there on time

Shame that, did Amazon provide the private service or was it the council?

Amazon should pay for the service, they make enough money to afford it.

(17 Oct 2021, 11:17 am)Michael wrote Shame that, did Amazon provide the private service or was it the council?

Amazon should pay for the service, they make enough money to afford it.

I believe it was provided by Amazon, but associates had to pay for the travel. 
I don't even think it was at a reduced rate, I may be wrong but I believe it was either £3 a day or £3 per journey.

Amazon Darlington and Amazon Washington seem to have a decent bus service, but Durham doesnt.
It's no wonder that traffic at Thinford coming from Bowburn is an absolute nightmare!

(17 Oct 2021, 11:03 am)Michael wrote Looks like the extension to Amazon in Washington is doing well, spotted this on Dan's Twitter:

Significant passenger growth on our Connections4 service to
@AmazonUK at Follingsby Park has seen additional duplicate runs added to the timetable, with even more to follow from the end of this month. Excellent that so many of their Associates are choosing bus to travel to work

https://twitter.com/Dan3942/status/1449426585589800962

Looks like more Amazon runs are being added, which is brilliant.

-------------

As the September changes thread was closed, I had to make a new one - couldn't find an existing thread to place it in.

I've noticed this and surprised by how many are using it. I was on the one that got to Follingsby (towards Heworth) at 05.41 on Monday morning, and our bus ended up leaving there pretty much full with standees. Despite a Follingsby-Heworth short departing full when we arrived there.

Same goes on the evening runs too. There's always a good few boarding/alighting there.  

(17 Oct 2021, 11:11 am)streetdeckfan wrote It's a shame there aren't any bus services for Amazon Durham, the nearest bus stop is Bowburn which is quite a trek.
They had a private bus service from Durham but I believe due to low numbers it was withdrawn.

My brother works there, and now has no choice but to get a lift into work every morning as it's impossible for him to travel by bus and get there on time

I know Arriva were asked about it prior to the development being completed, but nothing came of it, and obviously nothing since either. Believe the private bus was only put on for peak season (run up to Christmas)

Its completely bonkers and short-sighted for Arriva to not divert one of their existing services to serve the Amazon site, or to even work with them similar to what has been done for Follingsby or Darlington.

(17 Oct 2021, 1:25 pm)Adrian wrote I've noticed this and surprised by how many are using it. I was on the one that got to Follingsby (towards Heworth) at 05.41 on Monday morning, and our bus ended up leaving there pretty much full with standees. Despite a Follingsby-Heworth short departing full when we arrived there.

Same goes on the evening runs too. There's always a good few boarding/alighting there.  


I know Arriva were asked about it prior to the development being completed, but nothing came of it, and obviously nothing since either. Believe the private bus was only put on for peak season (run up to Christmas)

Its completely bonkers and short-sighted for Arriva to not divert one of their existing services to serve the Amazon site, or to even work with them similar to what has been done for Follingsby or Darlington.

I'd have thought it'd be relatively trivial to divert either the X12 or 56 to Amazon, since they pass very close.

(17 Oct 2021, 11:03 am)Michael wrote Looks like the extension to Amazon in Washington is doing well, spotted this on Dan's Twitter:

Significant passenger growth on our Connections4 service to
@AmazonUK at Follingsby Park has seen additional duplicate runs added to the timetable, with even more to follow from the end of this month. Excellent that so many of their Associates are choosing bus to travel to work


https://twitter.com/Dan3942/status/1449426585589800962



Looks like more Amazon runs are being added, which is brilliant.

-------------

As the September changes thread was closed, I had to make a new one - couldn't find an existing thread to place it in.

Excellent news. It's amazing what happens when a bus takes people to places of employment. 
Hopefully it is the start to a range of services to that area and it gives operators inspiration to do it in other areas too.

Do many use the middle of the night journey on the 4 (the one that starts at 2.06am)?

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(17 Oct 2021, 6:02 pm)big mac wrote Do many use the middle of the night journey on the 4 (the one that starts at 2.06am)?

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Decent loads most nights, not as busy as the early morning runs though, no dupes needed.

(17 Oct 2021, 4:16 pm)Andreos1 wrote Excellent news. It's amazing what happens when a bus takes people to places of employment. 
Hopefully it is the start to a range of services to that area and it gives operators inspiration to do it in other areas too.

They should extend the likes of the 57/58/67/69 from Heworth & Wardley to provide links across Gateshead to Amazon. 

You could even divert the odd 56 along Downhill Lane/Follingsby Lane to Follingby Park to provide links in the peaks back to Sunderland.

Furthermore with the withdrawal of the SNS and the 56 no longer being on diversion via Cherry Blossom Way/A1231 their is no service through the business park area again where Amazon are present alongside Nissan and Vantec, so why not extend the 82 from Waterview Park to Follingsby Park via Cherry Blossom Way and Downhill Lane/Follingsby Lane to Follingsby Park providing a link through multiple core business areas back to Washington. You could even divert the 50 via Cherry Blossom Way/A1231 and Peel Retail Park to Concord in order to provide some improved links from across the entire route.

(17 Oct 2021, 6:51 pm)Malarkey wrote You could even divert the odd 56 along Downhill Lane/Follingsby Lane to Follingby Park to provide links in the peaks back to Sunderland.

Would the all-night 56 journeys tie in with any of the shift times there?

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(17 Oct 2021, 6:54 pm)big mac wrote Would the all-night 56 journeys tie in with any of the shift times there?

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It already does, that's why there's the 4 during the night.

(17 Oct 2021, 6:51 pm)Malarkey wrote They should extend the likes of the 57/58/67/69 from Heworth & Wardley to provide links across Gateshead to Amazon. 

You could even divert the odd 56 along Downhill Lane/Follingsby Lane to Follingby Park to provide links in the peaks back to Sunderland.

Furthermore with the withdrawal of the SNS and the 56 no longer being on diversion via Cherry Blossom Way/A1231 their is no service through the business park area again where Amazon are present alongside Nissan and Vantec, so why not extend the 82 from Waterview Park to Follingsby Park via Cherry Blossom Way and Downhill Lane/Follingsby Lane to Follingsby Park providing a link through multiple core business areas back to Washington. You could even divert the 50 via Cherry Blossom Way/A1231 and Peel Retail Park to Concord in order to provide some improved links from across the entire route.

The 57, 67 and 69 all go around Wardley in a loop so it'd be rather difficult to split it in half it's quite a diversion going from the Felling Bypass North to Wardley. Also if you diverting the 56 then you're taking buses from Nissan, it's pretty much the only service serving it other than the infrequent 50.

imo I know it's not the right thread but the best 2 services to run along there would be SNE's X24 and X34. The former is never busy anyway really, I'm sure the X34 punters wouldn't mind if in return they got an evening and Sunday service. If you timetabled it right, it would be every 15 minutes and would only take roughly 20 minutes from Newcastle. You'd also give IAMP and Nissan an express service to Newcastle aswell.

(17 Oct 2021, 7:18 pm)Storx wrote The 57, 67 and 69 all go around Wardley in a loop so it'd be rather difficult to split it in half it's quite a diversion going from the Felling Bypass North to Wardley. Also if you diverting the 56 then you're taking buses from Nissan, it's pretty much the only service serving it other than the infrequent 50.

imo I know it's not the right thread but the best 2 services to run along there would be SNE's X24 and X34. The former is never busy anyway really, I'm sure the X34 punters wouldn't mind if in return they got an evening and Sunday service. If you timetabled it right, it would be every 15 minutes and would only take roughly 20 minutes from Newcastle. You'd also give IAMP and Nissan an express service to Newcastle aswell.

You could do the Wardley Loop in reverse so they go around clockwise rather than anti clockwise but they'd have to go down to White Mare Pool Roundabout then back up the otherside onto Leam Lane then head along to Follingsby Park from their but as you say that would to a significant diversion adding further time to the route.

(17 Oct 2021, 11:11 am)streetdeckfan wrote It's a shame there aren't any bus services for Amazon Durham, the nearest bus stop is Bowburn which is quite a trek.
They had a private bus service from Durham but I believe due to low numbers it was withdrawn.

My brother works there, and now has no choice but to get a lift into work every morning as it's impossible for him to travel by bus and get there on time

You could upgrade the X20 to Double Deckers (7), and extend it to BowBurn, every 30 mins. 

Or Create a 20A every 20 mins, 20 goes back down to 10. 20A to BowBurn Amazon just from Sunderland to Durham.

(17 Oct 2021, 9:46 pm)Keeiajs wrote You could upgrade the X20 to Double Deckers (7), and extend it to BowBurn, every 30 mins. 

Or Create a 20A every 20 mins, 20 goes back down to 10. 20A to BowBurn Amazon just from Sunderland to Durham.

There's a much bigger commercial risk in GNE extending a service outside of their territory to serve Amazon compared to the Follingsby example. The 4 being revised to serve Amazon was only a very slight variation to the route - not a 20 minute extension. 

I think the problem with the Bowburn site for Arriva is it would mean taking one of the 56/57A/X12 out of Coxhoe which they clearly didn't want to do so again it would involve putting on a new service from Durham to the site which as I said is much more of a commercial risk

(18 Oct 2021, 12:29 am)peter wrote I think the problem with the Bowburn site for Arriva is it would mean taking one of the 56/57A/X12 out of Coxhoe which they clearly didn't want to do so again it would involve putting on a new service from Durham to the site which as I said is much more of a commercial risk

No they wouldn't it would just be a small extension down to the roundabout in front of the building and double back on itself back to the A1 roundabout, effectively the same type of loop the 4 does at Follingsby, absolutely madness that Arriva doesn't have the initiative to do such a move.

(17 Oct 2021, 6:51 pm)Malarkey wrote They should extend the likes of the 57/58/67/69 from Heworth & Wardley to provide links across Gateshead to Amazon. 

You could even divert the odd 56 along Downhill Lane/Follingsby Lane to Follingby Park to provide links in the peaks back to Sunderland.

Furthermore with the withdrawal of the SNS and the 56 no longer being on diversion via Cherry Blossom Way/A1231 their is no service through the business park area again where Amazon are present alongside Nissan and Vantec, so why not extend the 82 from Waterview Park to Follingsby Park via Cherry Blossom Way and Downhill Lane/Follingsby Lane to Follingsby Park providing a link through multiple core business areas back to Washington. You could even divert the 50 via Cherry Blossom Way/A1231 and Peel Retail Park to Concord in order to provide some improved links from across the entire route.

My initial thoughts were to see connections from places other than Heworth or Washington. Something like the X24 or X34 like Storx suggested.

Finding out where these passengers are coming from and obtaining that data would be ideal.
I'm sure sticking a GNE bod on board a few of the runs would be a quick, cheap and cost effective way of finding out where the demand is coming from.
Assuming that the current set up of forcing everyone to go to Heworth and on to the 4, from places like Hebburn or Jarrow, will continue to work is quite short sighted imo.
They need to step it up and offer alternatives before the cold weather kicks in, before people start to lift share or to be able sort out driving lessons. These 'associates' will get to know each other and inevitably, they will start to develop working relationships.
They've got a captive audience at the mo, but need to maintain or grow it. Otherwise you end up with a 93/94 situation and the inevitable delays with the buses stuck in commuter traffic.

(17 Oct 2021, 11:11 am)streetdeckfan wrote It's a shame there aren't any bus services for Amazon Durham, the nearest bus stop is Bowburn which is quite a trek.
They had a private bus service from Durham but I believe due to low numbers it was withdrawn.

My brother works there, and now has no choice but to get a lift into work every morning as it's impossible for him to travel by bus and get there on time

Could Arriva operate certain journeys on service 56 as 56A and run the 56A from Bowburn down past Amazon and continue down the road past Tursdale and then left at roundabout then along the road and enter Conforth to continue normal route with service 56, it would provide more links for Amazon workers, and yes it will miss out Coxhoe altogether, but Coxhoe will still have journeys on the 56 plus the 57 and X1.


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(18 Oct 2021, 12:15 pm)deanmachine wrote No they wouldn't it would just be a small extension down to the roundabout in front of the building and double back on itself back to the A1 roundabout, effectively the same type of loop the 4 does at Follingsby, absolutely madness that Arriva doesn't have the initiative to do such a move.

The 4 is a high frequency service so it doesn't make much difference - the 56/57/X12 etc are all half hourly services which admittedly offer a 10-minute combined frequency but don't all interwork. Looking at the timetable it would be about a 4 minute round trip to serve Amazon. The 56 timetable is too tight so would need another bus adding in, the 57/57A would be risky cause that would reduce the layover time at Durham before going onto the 49/49A so then that interworking would need to be looked at. The best option would probably be the X12 but then you're extending journey times even further when you've already got the Teeside Park extension. It's all well and good saying Arriva could just extend to serve Amazon but if it was that simple don't you think they'd have already done it like they have in Darlington?

(18 Oct 2021, 12:41 pm)cbma06 wrote Could Arriva operate certain journeys on service 56 as 56A and run the 56A from Bowburn down past Amazon and continue down the road past Tursdale and then left at roundabout then along the road and enter Conforth to continue normal route with service 56, it would provide more links for Amazon workers, and yes it will miss out Coxhoe altogether, but Coxhoe  will still have journeys on the 56 plus the 57 and X1.


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If your going to redirect buses via Amazon then the best bus would be the 7. It currently has a 15 minute layover in Durham and it would only take an extra few minutes and provide a new link from the bottom end of Durham to Darlington aswell with a 30 minute service on it so it's not too infrequent and the other half of the route would be still every 30 minutes where most of is duplicated by other routes anyway.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.68923...00!3e0!5i1 - There's barely any time different on the two routes, not sure it could cope with the additional pax though.

(18 Oct 2021, 5:22 pm)Storx wrote If your going to redirect buses via Amazon then the best bus would be the 7. It currently has a 15 minute layover in Durham and it would only take an extra few minutes and provide a new link from the bottom end of Durham to Darlington aswell with a 30 minute service on it so it's not too infrequent and the other half of the route would be still every 30 minutes where most of is duplicated by other routes anyway.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.68923...00!3e0!5i1 - There's barely any time different on the two routes, not sure it could cope with the additional pax though.

That’s a good idea

(18 Oct 2021, 5:38 pm)cbma06 wrote That’s a good idea

Yeah, they could potentially work with DCC and try and nab the 112 subsidy aswell since everything would be pretty much covered by the 8A, 56, 86 and the new 7 (the only bit without a bus Metal Bridge -> Ferry Hill)

What GNE could do is perhaps, get the 59 and make it Mon-Sun via Amazon, Mon-Sat Every 30 mins, 2 buses. Maybe some older Citaros

(18 Oct 2021, 7:15 pm)Keeiajs wrote What GNE could do is perhaps, get the 59 and make it Mon-Sun via Amazon, Mon-Sat Every 30 mins, 2 buses. Maybe some older Citaros

Service 59 is a secured service from Durham council, it’s a Sunday service as Arriva does the Monday to Saturday service as a 57/57A


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(18 Oct 2021, 7:18 pm)cbma06 wrote Service 59 is a secured service from Durham council, it’s a Sunday service as Arriva does the Monday to Saturday service as a 57/57A


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Yeah, but I don't really know if Durham County Council will mind, aslong as they only pay for the Sunday route. 

But I mean GNE could trial it every 20 mins with 2 Citaros. See how it goes for a few month. Then if it does become popular put it proper route down there.

(18 Oct 2021, 6:39 pm)Storx wrote Yeah, they could potentially work with DCC and try and nab the 112 subsidy aswell since everything would be pretty much covered by the 8A, 56, 86 and the new 7 (the only bit without a bus Metal Bridge -> Ferry Hill)

One downside however is it would put the times on the 7 completely out of whack diverting one via Amazon & Bowburn. Done a quick rough mock up using the times (see below) from the existing X12 from Bowburn to Durham although think my estimated 11 mins from Ferryhill is a bit tight. Would have to be direct otherwise you effectively end up with a 56A and it wouldn't be able to go through Metal Bridge itself owing to the low bridge.

To keep this on track with GNE, if they were to run there probs be best if they were to trial a service there would either be best to run a standalone service as a trial or extend another Durham service, my suggestion being X5/X15 to offer better Cross city connections like how the 21 is now running to Brandon.

(18 Oct 2021, 12:41 pm)cbma06 wrote Could Arriva operate certain journeys on service 56 as 56A and run the 56A from Bowburn down past Amazon and continue down the road past Tursdale and then left at roundabout then along the road and enter Conforth to continue normal route with service 56, it would provide more links for Amazon workers, and yes it will miss out Coxhoe altogether, but Coxhoe  will still have journeys on the 56 plus the 57 and X1.

It shouldn't always be a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul in order to serve a new area. There's clearly a market in serving Amazon sites, as GNE have shown with their extension of the 4... no one has lost out with that; people have gained with later services.

(18 Oct 2021, 6:39 pm)Storx wrote Yeah, they could potentially work with DCC and try and nab the 112 subsidy aswell since everything would be pretty much covered by the 8A, 56, 86 and the new 7 (the only bit without a bus Metal Bridge -> Ferry Hill)

Why should DCC subsidise it? We live in a deregulated market, and it shouldn't be up to a local authority to provide a bus, just because the dominant commercial operator aren't willing to do anything different to what they've done for the last 30 years.

If every new development/employment site fell to the local authority to sort out transport from/to, we might as well change legislation and allow council-owned bus companies again.

Could always extend some Angels down to Amazon.

(19 Oct 2021, 1:46 pm)Rapidsnap wrote Could always extend some Angels down to Amazon.

I think the people of Bowburn would almost rejoice at having an alternative to being cramped up on an aging Solo, being transported in worse conditions than legally allowed for livestock.