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+--- Thread: Qualifying Agreement - A1058 Coast Road (/showthread.php?tid=4242)
Qualifying Agreement - A1058 Coast Road - RobinHood - 13 Feb 2023
(12 Feb 2023, 12:40 pm)L469 YVK wrote Unless GNE, Arriva and Nexus have other plans, a big trick has been missed to use this as an opportunity to sort the Coast Road out with a clean 5 minute service & joint ticketing.
I mentioned on this forum a few weeks ago that a Qualifying Agreement was already advanced for the Coast Road.
The JTC on Tuesday (21st) will vote to approve the agreement and it will start from 26 March.
Clean 5 minute headway and mutual ticket acceptance incoming...!
RE: Arriva North East March 2023 changes - L469 YVK - 13 Feb 2023
(13 Feb 2023, 8:12 pm)RobinHood wrote I mentioned on this forum a few weeks ago that a Qualifying Agreement was already advanced for the Coast Road.Exactly what's needed.
The JTC on Tuesday (21st) will vote to approve the agreement and it will start from 26 March.
Clean 5 minute headway and mutual ticket acceptance incoming...!
I hope it doesn't mean a 'diversion' of the 310 via Hadrian Park. Either split the 22 every 20 to Cobalt & Silverlink / Hadrian Park to replace the 311 with the 309 additionally via High Farm.....or reduce the 309/310/311 to every 30 mins each with the 310 via Cobalt and 309 additionally via High Farm.
The above would've been the perfect opportunity to get rid of an 'oddball' minibus service but nevertheless a sensible option if voted in.
RE: Arriva North East March 2023 changes - L469 YVK - 13 Feb 2023
On that note.......if anyone after some bedtime reading...........
https://northeastca.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/2023.02.21-JTC-Public-Agenda-Pack.pdf
RE: Arriva North East March 2023 changes - Storx - 13 Feb 2023
(13 Feb 2023, 10:45 pm)L469 YVK wrote On that note.......if anyone after some bedtime reading...........
https://northeastca.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/2023.02.21-JTC-Public-Agenda-Pack.pdf
306 - As is
307 - 310/311 combined
308 - As is
309 - As is
310 - Withdrawn
311 - Withdrawn
Says in there, just thought you'd like to know.
RE: Arriva North East March 2023 changes - Michael - 13 Feb 2023
(13 Feb 2023, 10:45 pm)L469 YVK wrote On that note.......if anyone after some bedtime reading...........
https://northeastca.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/2023.02.21-JTC-Public-Agenda-Pack.pdf
Page 25:
(13 Feb 2023, 11:12 pm)Storx wrote 306 - As is
307 - 310/311 combined
308 - As is
309 - As is
310 - Withdrawn
311 - Withdrawn
Says in there, just thought you'd like to know.
They want to start it 26th March 2023... could they do that, I thought VOSA had to be notified 56? days before any changes.
Edit: page 44-66 for:
Route changes
Times
Layover times
PVRS
RE: Arriva North East March 2023 changes - Storx - 13 Feb 2023
(13 Feb 2023, 11:13 pm)Michael wrote Page 25:
They want to start it 26th March 2023... could they do that, I thought VOSA had to be notified 56? days before any changes.
Not too sure, I thought similar aswell but the tenders are seem to be left to the wire aswell. Might be slightly less though somewhere is shouting 4 weeks but I'm not 100% sure.
RE: Arriva North East March 2023 changes - peter - 13 Feb 2023
(13 Feb 2023, 11:12 pm)Storx wrote 306 - As is
307 - 310/311 combined
308 - As is
309 - As is
310 - Withdrawn
311 - Withdrawn
Says in there, just thought you'd like to know.
For those that can't be bothered to trawl through the document, 306/307/308/309 would each run every 5 minutes (306 all journeys will run to Whitley Bay, with the terminus extended to Bournemouth Gardens where GNE's 1 currently terminates).
Proposed timetables show
306/308 interwork with a PVR of 15 (a reduction of 3)
307 and 309 standalone with PVR's of 6 and 8 respectively, 14 in total (a reduction of 2)
RE: Arriva North East March 2023 changes - L469 YVK - 14 Feb 2023
(14 Feb 2023, 6:44 am)citaro5284 wrote And not a single mention in the document about Stagecoach, 22 and Hadrian Park either.....Would've been a better option IMO. One thing Peter Huntley did right was remove the 315/316 / 75/76 out of Hadrian Park.......and Martijn later did right having a service not 'going in or back out' but bringing it back onto the Haymarket routes.
Ironically......the 307 would be the perfect service number if Nexus didn't throw money at 'minibuses' and it picked up Wiltshire Drive instead of Hadrian Park.
RE: Arriva North East March 2023 changes - RobinHood - 14 Feb 2023
(13 Feb 2023, 11:20 pm)Storx wrote Not too sure, I thought similar aswell but the tenders are seem to be left to the wire aswell. Might be slightly less though somewhere is shouting 4 weeks but I'm not 100% sure.It's normally 42 days notice to the traffic commissioner (after 28 days notice to the local authority) - combined period of 70 days.
However there is legislation in place permitting a reduction to 28 days notice for the traffic commissioner given the current uncertainty around funding. I suspect the local authorities won't request their 28 days notice given they are involved in this, so providing the registrations go in before end of the month, they will be in time.
RE: Arriva North East March 2023 changes - DeltaMan - 14 Feb 2023
(14 Feb 2023, 6:44 am)citaro5284 wrote And not a single mention in the document about Stagecoach, 22 and Hadrian Park either....."New direct link between Hadrian Park and North Shields town centre"
My guess is that the 306 will replace the 311!
RE: Arriva North East March 2023 changes - citaro5284 - 14 Feb 2023
(14 Feb 2023, 8:01 am)DeltaMan wrote "New direct link between Hadrian Park and North Shields town centre"
My guess is that the 306 will replace the 311!
It is the 310 (renumbered to 307) which will do Hadrian Park to North Shields.
RE: Arriva North East March 2023 changes - V514DFT - 14 Feb 2023
I dont see why they cant just leave it as the 310 and still have it serve Hadrian Park instead of pointlessly renumbering it 307
RE: Arriva North East March 2023 changes - Storx - 14 Feb 2023
(14 Feb 2023, 7:13 am)RobinHood wrote It's normally 42 days notice to the traffic commissioner (after 28 days notice to the local authority) - combined period of 70 days.
However there is legislation in place permitting a reduction to 28 days notice for the traffic commissioner given the current uncertainty around funding. I suspect the local authorities won't request their 28 days notice given they are involved in this, so providing the registrations go in before end of the month, they will be in time.
Thank you, knew I had read about it being 28 days somewhere so makes sense.
(14 Feb 2023, 8:44 am)V514DFT wrote I dont see why they cant just leave it as the 310 and still have it serve Hadrian Park instead of pointlessly renumbering it 307
Ease of numbering for people who never use the buses. 306/307: North Shields to Newcastle (Every 10 Minutes), 308/309: Whitley Bay to Newcastle (Every 10 Minutes)
Be interesting to see what happens with the 1, now the 306 is upto every 20 minutes, GoNorthEast tickets can be used on it (if you bother to buy one since there's no use elsewhere really) and quicker to get to Whitley Bay from Marden and also what happens with the 335 since Nexus must've forgot it exists as last time I checked that does Hadrian Park to North Shields. It's pretty much a waste of time the Eastern section other than Murton Village as it just duplicates other routes.
RE: Arriva North East March 2023 changes - L469 YVK - 14 Feb 2023
(14 Feb 2023, 8:44 am)V514DFT wrote I dont see why they cant just leave it as the 310 and still have it serve Hadrian Park instead of pointlessly renumbering it 307Think it's more to do with.....
- Odds - Arriva (Newcastle - Billy Mill)
- Evens - GNE (Newcastle - Battle Hill)
- North Shields area: 306 & 307
- Whitley Bay & Blyth: 308 & 309
The 307 (and current evening 310 journeys) for that matter is effectively the old 300 (2004-06) & 315/316 (2006-08).
Going in / out of Hadrian Park is a backwards step in my opinion. Has been that way now for 15 years (minus the evening 310 journeys) and should stay that way.
RE: Arriva North East March 2023 changes - Thomas12 - 14 Feb 2023
(14 Feb 2023, 9:24 am)Storx wrote Thank you, knew I had read about it being 28 days somewhere so makes sense.
Ease of numbering for people who never use the buses. 306/307: North Shields to Newcastle (Every 10 Minutes), 308/309: Whitley Bay to Newcastle (Every 10 Minutes)
Be interesting to see what happens with the 1, now the 306 is upto every 20 minutes, GoNorthEast tickets can be used on it (if you bother to buy one since there's no use elsewhere really) and quicker to get to Whitley Bay from Marden and also what happens with the 335 since Nexus must've forgot it exists as last time I checked that does Hadrian Park to North Shields. It's pretty much a waste of time the Eastern section other than Murton Village as it just duplicates other routes.
The 335 serves sections of route that the 42/42A used to serve in North Shields/Billy Mill, as well as Westminster Avenue. There are no other routes there, although I’m not sure what the demand is like. (Pretty low, I’d imagine)
RE: Arriva North East March 2023 changes - Storx - 14 Feb 2023
(14 Feb 2023, 9:35 am)Thomas12 wrote The 335 serves sections of route that the 42/42A used to serve in North Shields/Billy Mill, as well as Westminster Avenue. There are no other routes there, although I’m not sure what the demand is like. (Pretty low, I’d imagine)
Aye I get that but it's about 100m to Billy Mill Lane (53 / 308) or Malvern Road (317). I get that there used to be bus routes there but when councils are skint, not sure it's the best use of tax payer funds to be honest. Especially when one is subsidised and the other is dying (53) while other routes were planned to be lost altogether like the 51 through route or M6 at Jesmond Vale which are a hell of a lot more worthwhile serving areas with next to nothing.
Any subsidised services should be serving places where there's no bus services at all like Murton Village imo.
RE: Arriva North East March 2023 changes - NEbushopper - 14 Feb 2023
Will arriva day tickets be accepted on the 307/309 and vice versa?
or is ticketing information still yet to come?
RE: Arriva North East March 2023 changes - Thomas12 - 14 Feb 2023
(14 Feb 2023, 4:49 pm)NEbushopper wrote Will arriva day tickets be accepted on the 307/309 and vice versa?
or is ticketing information still yet to come?
Yes, that is the plan
RE: Arriva North East March 2023 changes - V514DFT - 14 Feb 2023
'This is the Cobalt and Coast 307 service to North Shields' doesnt quite have the same ring to it
RE: Arriva North East March 2023 changes - L469 YVK - 14 Feb 2023
(14 Feb 2023, 5:08 pm)V514DFT wrote 'This is the Cobalt and Coast 307 service to North Shields' doesnt quite have the same ring to itIt's been the 310 for nearly 13 years now and should just stay as that.
Now the 307.......we all know what that would've been appropriate for but doubt it will happen unless Arriva go to the begging bowl later down the line.
As for these changes, my main criticisms are....
- 306 should be pulled out of Battle Hill - would reduce PVR of 306/308 to 14x if also kept as terminating at Whitley Bay Town Centre. Further freeing resource for Arriva. Could also be an argument for the 309 to additionally serve High Farm but not needed for obvious reasons as Arriva / Nexus have 'jumped to the rescue' leaving the 307 untouched through that part.
- Evenings.......309 & 307 departures ex Newcastle should be xx:10 and xx:40 with the 306 & 308 at xx:20 & xx:50. Would give more of an even headway between the 308 & 309 for whole of the route and provide better times around Cobalt shift patterns towards the Coast.
- Evening 306 & 308 , why no interworking pattern when the 306 gets a massive layover in Tynemouth and 308 gets stretched for time when demand can be higher at certain times / events during the evening.
RE: Arriva North East March 2023 changes - V514DFT - 14 Feb 2023
(14 Feb 2023, 5:23 pm)L469 YVK wrote It's been the 310 for nearly 13 years now and should just stay as that.Yup 307 better suited to the 51 which is what it was before the whole 2010 farce, its been the 310 for that long which people are well and truely used to now, its just upsetting the apple cart for the sake of it to keep the numbering geeks happy
Now the 307.......we all know what that would've been appropriate for but doubt it will happen unless Arriva go to the begging bowl later down the line.
As for these changes, my main criticisms are....
- 306 should be pulled out of Battle Hill - would reduce PVR of 306/308 to 14x if also kept as terminating at Whitley Bay Town Centre. Further freeing resource for Arriva. Could also be an argument for the 309 to additionally serve High Farm but not needed for obvious reasons as Arriva / Nexus have 'jumped to the rescue' leaving the 307 untouched through that part.
- Evenings.......309 & 307 departures ex Newcastle should be xx:10 and xx:40 with the 306 & 308 at xx:20 & xx:50. Would give more of an even headway between the 308 & 309 for whole of the route and provide better times around Cobalt shift patterns towards the Coast.
- Evening 306 & 308 , why no interworking pattern when the 306 gets a massive layover in Tynemouth and 308 gets stretched for time when demand can be higher at certain times / events during the evening.
Qualifying Agreement - A1058 Coast Roaf - L469 YVK - 14 Feb 2023
For any discussion or suggestions related to the proposed Qualifying Agreement covering services 306/308/309/310/311.
RE: Qualifying Agreement - A1058 Coast Roaf - L469 YVK - 15 Feb 2023
Ones that's popped into my head......
- To maintain effective service delivery, could GNE not be the lead 'controller' for service delivery (with Arriva supervisors / managers also having access). Obviously this would mean a subfleet for Blyth if Arriva needed to fit radios.
RE: Qualifying Agreement - A1058 Coast Roaf - Storx - 15 Feb 2023
(15 Feb 2023, 7:00 am)L469 YVK wrote Ones that's popped into my head......
- To maintain effective service delivery, could GNE not be the lead 'controller' for service delivery (with Arriva supervisors / managers also having access). Obviously this would mean a subfleet for Blyth if Arriva needed to fit radios.
Why would GNE be the lead when it's Arriva's corridor and both have totally different ways of regulating services.
Also the reason the long layovers are at the Tynemouth / Whitley Bay end is because if things are delayed at Blyth then they just swap the bus out using buses usually from the X7 - X11.
RE: Qualifying Agreement - A1058 Coast Roaf - Economic505 - 15 Feb 2023
Nexus should be the lead controller. Once we have the NE Combined Authority , Nexus should get beefed up powers similar to TF Manchester and TFL. Since we the tax payer are giving millions in subsidies, this is the perfect time to end deregulation.
RE: Qualifying Agreement - A1058 Coast Roaf - streetdeckfan - 15 Feb 2023
(15 Feb 2023, 7:53 am)Economic505 wrote Nexus should be the lead controller. Once we have the NE Combined Authority , Nexus should get beefed up powers similar to TF Manchester and TFL. Since we the tax payer are giving millions in subsidies, this is the perfect time to end deregulation.I'd have more confidence in Arriva and GNE working in competition on the corridor than Nexus having control of it!
Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk
RE: Qualifying Agreement - A1058 Coast Roaf - Storx - 15 Feb 2023
(15 Feb 2023, 7:53 am)Economic505 wrote Nexus should be the lead controller. Once we have the NE Combined Authority , Nexus should get beefed up powers similar to TF Manchester and TFL. Since we the tax payer are giving millions in subsidies, this is the perfect time to end deregulation.
Unless there's radical change within Nexus personally I'd hate that. They're incompetent at the finest and blame everyone but the King for their problems.
Noticed it's now Stadlers fault for the train cancellations which is nothing new.
Gannon, Hughes and co need the boot but they're pretty much unelected on the transport board.
The stuff in Manchester is a mess aswell and is politically motivated more than anything.
RE: Qualifying Agreement - A1058 Coast Roaf - Economic505 - 15 Feb 2023
(15 Feb 2023, 8:15 am)Storx wrote Unless there's radical change within Nexus personally I'd hate that. They're incompetent at the finest and blame everyone but the King for their problems.I guess there has to be a new body set up, or Nexus reconstituted. The idea of giving bus companies the power is unpalatable as a tax payer. Basically I ‘m paying GNE to feck around with pretty liveries while they slash and burn.
Noticed it's now Stadlers fault for the train cancellations which is nothing new.
Gannon, Hughes and co need the boot but they're pretty much unelected on the transport board.
The stuff in Manchester is a mess aswell and is politically motivated more than anything.
RE: Qualifying Agreement - A1058 Coast Roaf - Storx - 15 Feb 2023
(15 Feb 2023, 9:03 am)Economic505 wrote I guess there has to be a new body set up, or Nexus reconstituted. The idea of giving bus companies the power is unpalatable as a tax payer. Basically I ‘m paying GNE to feck around with pretty liveries while they slash and burn.
Aye neither really work. Least London get to vote for theirs with their Mayor who controls it.
Agreed though but then again Nexus piss about with awful art and ridiculous videos which are pointless while feral kids are running around wild.
Lose / lose to me.
RE: Qualifying Agreement - A1058 Coast Roaf - Economic505 - 15 Feb 2023
(15 Feb 2023, 9:20 am)Storx wrote Aye neither really work. Least London get to vote for theirs with their Mayor who controls it.I agree especially about the kids. They always on scrambler bikes near where I live, wrecking the grass etc yet the police never do anything. However, the traffic police are usually around , targeting drivers etc. it pisses me off.
Agreed though but then again Nexus piss about with awful art and ridiculous videos which are pointless while feral kids are running around wild.
Lose / lose to me.