(18 May 2023, 6:45 pm)Michael wrote Seen this on another fourm:

Latest set of accounts for the year ending June 22 have been published and show a loss of over £4,000,000. Which is worse than the previous year.

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4 million loss?, that's crazy

(18 May 2023, 7:06 pm)Storx wrote It's really only £1.9m when you take the bs out but it's still not ideal mind.

(18 May 2023, 7:12 pm)Michael wrote Ah right, have you got the full info?

(18 May 2023, 7:29 pm)Storx wrote Aye, accounts are here - https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/02057284/filing-history

There's a £2.8m goodwill write off though which has knocked it to make it look worse because the value of the whole company has took a hit. There's absolutely nothing positive there mind and is pretty much all about cuts.

The COVID funds has dropped from £22m to £11m though. Not much more to say really.

(18 May 2023, 7:32 pm)Michael wrote Thank you!

That's not good, if its all about cuts 

(18 May 2023, 7:44 pm)Storx wrote Yeah, all about rationalisation of routes, backroom reductions etc, they're straight from it. Mind this is 7 months ago though. The last MD (I always spell his name wrong ha) did resign though and wasn't forced out.

(18 May 2023, 9:35 pm)mb134 wrote Jumped before pushed springs to mind. 

His tenure was a disaster, seemed to have no idea how to rationalise spending post-Covid, and it'll take a lot of work for the staff who are left to get the company back to where it was.

(19 May 2023, 6:36 am)DaveFromUpNorth wrote £4m loss

If you look closely it is not really a loss and pretty much break even

The liabilities to be paid out within 1 year had reduced to bizarrely a similar figure

The operating costs for CLS depot will be a saving aswell as the sale of the site  although yeah it is a one off offsett cash injection

£4M loss would of been capital expenditure to install Electric charging at Riverside as well as purchase of new buses etc... And diesel has been around £1.70-£1.80 a litre however wholesale is going down and average cheapest is around £1.41.9 £1.46.9 or just over 150p a litre  at present that £4m will be saved just in fuel alone  

Those figures in the balance sheet seem fair and nothing to be worried about

(19 May 2023, 6:36 am)DaveFromUpNorth wrote £4m loss

If you look closely it is not really a loss and pretty much break even

The liabilities to be paid out within 1 year had reduced to bizarrely a similar figure

The operating costs for CLS depot will be a saving aswell as the sale of the site  although yeah it is a one off offsett cash injection

£4M loss would of been capital expenditure to install Electric charging at Riverside as well as purchase of new buses etc... And diesel has been around £1.70-£1.80 a litre however wholesale is going down and average cheapest is around £1.41.9 £1.46.9 or just over 150p a litre  at present that £4m will be saved just in fuel alone 

Those figures in the balance sheet seem fair and nothing to be worried about

(19 May 2023, 8:31 am)Storx wrote I don't want to be a dick but your just completely wrong here. 

The loss was £1.9m there's no other ways of putting it. 

Capital expenditure doesn't affect the profit and loss at all and just affects the balance sheet so buying electric chargers etc won't change it and as someone said after fuel is hedged. The losses come on the balance sheet as depreciation over the life of the asset (15 years for buses etc) 

Not to mention that there's £11m worth of Covid funds there and Co. Durham has just cut the concessonary pass rebursal rate.

It's grim reading (hence the cuts left, right and centre).

(19 May 2023, 4:18 pm)busmanT wrote The forthcoming replacement of Bus Recovery Grant by BSOG+ of about only 50% of the value ain’t going to help either…..

(20 May 2023, 5:49 pm)Unber43 wrote How on earth have they lost 4 million

(20 May 2023, 6:41 pm)Dan wrote For the same reasons all bus operators have seen a huge loss of revenue: poor patronage recovery following the pandemic.

Profits were hardly strong at GNE pre-Covid, and have been in constant decline since 2015.

The issues with Go North East’s finances have likely been exacerbated by fares which are, in the main, too cheap. The previous Managing Director took a huge gamble by reducing and simplifying fares. Unfortunately this did not result in the growth required for the scheme to wash its face.

One could argue this was due to the early recovery of services following the pandemic, or due to the poor operational performance (now, in the main, a thing of the past)… Who knows.

The large loss of revenue paired with ever-increasing costs (including a real terms pay increase of 15-20% in July 2022 to help attract and retain driving staff) is a recipe for disaster.

The new executive team in place at Go North East seem far more cost-focused - this is evident through a distinct lack of repaints/refurbishments, spend on discretionary items, the early termination of some loss-making contracts, and a well-publicised restructure of clerical staff and management.

The company is very clearly now in a turnaround. I suspect it will be a long time before any “gambles” to improve revenue will be taken - new fare initiatives, network changes, or otherwise.

The fact operators will only receive around 50% of the Government support they currently receive from 1 July, paired with alleged reductions in ENCTS payments from local authorities (as has been suggested is the reason for impending cuts at Arriva) won’t do any good at all for the profits of any operators in the region.


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(20 May 2023, 6:48 pm)Unber43 wrote Do we know if SCNE/ANE have made any profits, or when/if we will know?

Are GNE in a profitable state, as ending July 22 was nearly a year ago

(20 May 2023, 6:48 pm)Unber43 wrote Do we know if SCNE/ANE have made any profits, or when/if we will know?

Are GNE in a profitable state, as ending July 22 was nearly a year ago

(20 May 2023, 7:43 pm)Storx wrote Stagecoach made £3.9m upto Y/E Apr' 22 (excluding intercompany loans).
Arriva accounts are delayed.

Stagecoach has £9.5m in government grants though including the Covid funds and made £6.5m or so before Covid to put it into context. I wouldn't be surprised to see Stagecoach is in dire state as much as other operators outside of the core Newcastle routes which a monkey could run.

(20 May 2023, 8:24 pm)Unber43 wrote Is that SCNE? Also yeah if GNE had 3-4 more strong routes like the 21, like SCNE do in Newcastle.

(20 May 2023, 8:31 pm)Storx wrote Just the T&W Depots, the Stockton area depots are a separate company, someone posted it just before me believe they made loss without checking.

Yeah, Stagecoach pretty much have all the goldmine routes in Newcastle and to be fair in Sunderland aswell really.

Teesside sounds like it's in a dire state and if the rumoured pensioner pass cuts come in could mean big trouble in some areas, in particular Hartlepool, as whenever I see buses down there passing by the few times I'm there it's full of them. Mind it could be toxic in Derwentside / East Durham aswell, it's been cut to the bone already especially with GNE and Arriva done it years ago pretty much.

(20 May 2023, 6:41 pm)Dan wrote The new executive team in place at Go North East seem far more cost-focused - this is evident through a distinct lack of repaints/refurbishments, spend on discretionary items, the early termination of some loss-making contracts, and a well-publicised restructure of clerical staff and management.

The company is very clearly now in a turnaround. I suspect it will be a long time before any “gambles” to improve revenue will be taken - new fare initiatives, network changes, or otherwise.

The fact operators will only receive around 50% of the Government support they currently receive from 1 July, paired with alleged reductions in ENCTS payments from local authorities (as has been suggested is the reason for impending cuts at Arriva) won’t do any good at all for the profits of any operators in the region.


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(20 May 2023, 10:52 pm)Ambassador wrote In a turnaround? Fares are too cheap…uh huh….ok….

Until we get back to a point of public service being properly supported (and properly operated with that cash) and spend less time worrying about a faceless corporate entities profits then nothing will improve. It’ll be interesting to see how Liverpool and Manchesters franchised networks work out and whether we can follow that model regionally alas, I’ve even less faith in our regional leaders and nexus/Gannons whingy transport coalition than I do in GNE

(20 May 2023, 10:52 pm)Ambassador wrote In a turnaround? Fares are too cheap…uh huh….ok….

Until we get back to a point of public service being properly supported (and properly operated with that cash) and spend less time worrying about a faceless corporate entities profits then nothing will improve. It’ll be interesting to see how Liverpool and Manchesters franchised networks work out and whether we can follow that model regionally alas, I’ve even less faith in our regional leaders and nexus/Gannons whingy transport coalition than I do in GNE

(21 May 2023, 7:40 am)busmanT wrote Some GNE fares are clearly below the price that they need to be - Concord to Sunderland £2.30 single for example.

it will be interesting to see if Manchester can afford franchising - we won’t know until at least 2026 once all areas are franchised.
It will also be interesting to find out what the Bee Network fares are when Andy B announces them next month.

(21 May 2023, 7:40 am)busmanT wrote Some GNE fares are clearly below the price that they need to be - Concord to Sunderland £2.30 single for example.

(21 May 2023, 6:09 pm)deanmachine wrote Really? I'd argue £2.30 is about right for travel from Concord into Sunderland. It's a cross city fare after all, the old pricing used to be quite ridiculous imo.

(21 May 2023, 8:56 pm)Ambassador wrote Pre Covid. Birtley to Newcastle was £3.80, the same distance miles wise. 

Someone is either being massively undercharged or hugely overcharged….