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+--- Thread: July 2023 changes (/showthread.php?tid=4319)
July 2023 changes - Michael - 25 May 2023
8th July:
PB0003954/1079
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED X6 (X6) Peterlee Sunderland
PB0003954/1289
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED 208 Easington Village Peterlee
RE: July 2023 changes - Unber43 - 25 May 2023
well isn't that convenient
RE: July 2023 changes - Iamtheone8483748 - 25 May 2023
Will this be an increase or decrease in service?
July 2023 changes - cbma06 - 25 May 2023
(25 May 2023, 6:56 pm)Unber43 wrote well isn't that convenient
The 208 is dcc contract, so will be a retiming issue between Peterlee and Easington to coincide with Arriva 22/23 bus changes
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RE: July 2023 changes - Unber43 - 25 May 2023
(25 May 2023, 7:03 pm)Iamtheone8483748 wrote Will this be an increase or decrease in service?X6 I assume increase
July 2023 changes - cbma06 - 25 May 2023
(25 May 2023, 7:10 pm)Unber43 wrote X6 I assume increase
Can’t see that to be quite honest really, increasing the x6 to half hourly will cost GNE use of another bus , plus at least 2 more drivers wages etc… , if the x6 needed more capacity then it would be more of putting a single decker on than a solo.
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RE: July 2023 changes - F114TML - 25 May 2023
Probably just retiming a couple journeys to make them fit with the 208 changes.
RE: July 2023 changes - Unber43 - 25 May 2023
(25 May 2023, 7:19 pm)cbma06 wrote Can’t see that to be quite honest really, increasing the x6 to half hourly will cost GNE use of another bus , plus at least 2 more drivers wages etc… , if the x6 needed more capacity then it would be more of putting a single decker on than a solo.Why not GNE already do remote change overs for the 208/206 afaik, only the 201/209/210 interwork with the X6 currently, if they timed it right they could all interwork.
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RE: July 2023 changes - Storx - 25 May 2023
(25 May 2023, 7:47 pm)Unber43 wrote Why not GNE already do remote change overs for the 208/206 afaik, only the 201/209/210 interwork with the X6 currently, if they timed it right they could all interwork.
Those 5 routes are all contract routes so they'll make money regardless. The X6 isn't. They're losing money left right and centre, they won't be expanding on corridors where another operator is dropping buses as no-one uses it imo.
The pensioner pass farce down there won't help either. It might being the opposite and it becoming peak only runs to get the bus to Peterlee and vice versa (I don't know though) but that would leave no service between Seaham and Peterlee at all.
RE: July 2023 changes - Jimmi - 25 May 2023
(25 May 2023, 7:55 pm)Storx wrote Those 5 routes are all contract routes so they'll make money regardless. The X6 isn't. They're losing money left right and centre, they won't be expanding on corridors where another operator is dropping buses as no-one uses it imo.Surely, if the demand was there for 2 direct GNE buses an hour between Peterlee and Sunderland then you would've thought that the X7 wouldn't have been withdrawn?
The pensioner pass farce down there won't help either. It might being the opposite and it becoming peak only runs to get the bus to Peterlee and vice versa (I don't know though) but that would leave no service between Seaham and Peterlee at all.
Part of the proposals for the 22/23 did suggest at looking to revise the times of the 208 to better align up with the new 22/23 times, the changes also suggested that there would be 4 direct buses left overall between Peterlee and Sunderland although I think that's counting the 61.
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RE: July 2023 changes - Storx - 25 May 2023
(25 May 2023, 8:48 pm)Jimmi wrote Surely, if the demand was there for 2 direct GNE buses an hour between Peterlee and Sunderland then you would've thought that the X7 wouldn't have been withdrawn?
Part of the proposals for the 22/23 did suggest at looking to revise the times of the 208 to better align up with the new 22/23 times, the changes also suggested that there would be 4 direct buses left overall between Peterlee and Sunderland although I think that's counting the 61.
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Yeah totally agreed, it's just one of those corridors where people just don't seem to travel and I'm not really surprised there's not exactly anything at either end to seriously commute without doubling back to where the jobs actually are ie. Doxford Park which are car orientated, similar to the offices at Peterlee.
I'm surprised the 22/23 is around at all, I've seen it a couple times now with around 4 people on at rush hour. Never a sign of a successful route. I have a feeling it's more a political move to avoid the, 'Arriva is based in Sunderland and don't serve the city,' type of criticism.
RE: July 2023 changes - Drifter60 - 26 May 2023
(25 May 2023, 8:48 pm)Jimmi wrote Surely, if the demand was there for 2 direct GNE buses an hour between Peterlee and Sunderland then you would've thought that the X7 wouldn't have been withdrawn?
Part of the proposals for the 22/23 did suggest at looking to revise the times of the 208 to better align up with the new 22/23 times, the changes also suggested that there would be 4 direct buses left overall between Peterlee and Sunderland although I think that's counting the 61.
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Hardly surprised to see the 22/23 cutback on the Sunderland end of the routes, as people have said they’re rarely carrying huge numbers. I think my overall opinion is that the bus network is a mess. Really the suggestion that the X6 go half hourly isn’t too crazy, although I can’t see it happening in the current climate, as you’re left with Arriva offering 2 buses per hour taking 45 minutes whereas GNE’s X6 does it 10 minutes quicker. And really counting the 61 which takes over an hour to get from point to point, is rather stretching it a bit. But this is where I think bus networks fall down now, as competition is all but dead. Arriva and GNE could compete on a roughly similar corridor with Arriva having a longer journey time, but serving the villages and GNE having a quicker journey that serves less areas but does go via the key travel areas. But they don’t do that, too risky…
RE: July 2023 changes - Unber43 - 26 May 2023
THe only reason I think the X6 could be improved frequency wise is the fact that it is always busy both ways. But aswell 208 is standalone.
X6 could be timed to leave 10 mins before the 22/23 leaves
July 2023 changes - Jimmi - 26 May 2023
In an ideal world, this is where all this partnership stuff would come in handy, especially with mutual ticket acceptance, you could now roughly time it so there's a 15 minute frequency between Dalton Park and Sunderland between the 22/23 & 61 and have the 60 slot in between to offer a 7/8 minute frequency between Westlea and Sunderland.
The way things are now, competition is pretty much dead and think the only way forward is some joined up thinking and more partnerships like what has been done along the Coast Road with the 306-309.
RE: July 2023 changes - Unber43 - 26 May 2023
But the thing is, thats two difference companies fighting for profitablity, really the only reason 306-309 thing was done was because GNE/ANE never wanted to give up any compeition it wasn't done for passengers it was done to save their pocket, as they didn't need GNE/ANE at every 3 mins along the coast road. (presumable the 306/308 where every 15 mins each)
Where as Arriva has already slashed competition. I wonder whether the 61 could see an increase and do a loop around Easington, Dalton Park, Sunderland. but I doubt that would happen unless ANE totally pulled out of Sunderland
RE: July 2023 changes - purplesolo - 26 May 2023
(26 May 2023, 6:15 am)WUnber43 wrote THe only reason I think the X6 could be improved frequency wise is the fact that it is always busy both ways. But aswell 208 is standalone.The X6 is never ‘always’ busy both ways. Busiest journey is the 8am from Park Lane as we get all the office workers from Spectrum, rest of the time we don’t get close to filling a solo. Not unusual to leave Peterlee empty either.
X6 could be timed to leave 10 mins before the 22/23 leaves
RE: July 2023 changes - Unber43 - 26 May 2023
Tbf we must be seeing different loads as when I see them its always busy going in and out of Sunderland, also both ways doesn't necessarily mean From Peterlee to Sunderland the entire way
RE: July 2023 changes - Michael - 26 May 2023
(25 May 2023, 6:46 pm)Michael wrote 8th July:
PB0003954/1079
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED X6 (X6) Peterlee Sunderland
PB0003954/1289
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED 208 Easington Village Peterlee
Both down as a timetable change - according to the CSV on VOSA.
RE: July 2023 changes - Unber43 - 26 May 2023
(26 May 2023, 8:05 am)Michael wrote Both down as a timetable change - according to the CSV on VOSA.If it was a frequency increase, would that show up seperately?
RE: July 2023 changes - Michael - 26 May 2023
(26 May 2023, 8:14 am)Unber43 wrote If it was a frequency increase, would that show up seperately?
Honestly not sure, I think it depends how the company submits them to VOSA.
RE: July 2023 changes - RobinHood - 26 May 2023
X6 is a frequency increase, presumably in response to Arriva reduction on the 22/23.
It clear from the amount of chopping and changing that has happened between Peterlee and Sunderland (even before COVID-19), that it doesnt justify the level of resource being thrown at it.
Conversely, I see 23/24 buses between Peterlee and Hartlepool are normally very well used, still surprised GNE gave that up, as it is clearly worth more than Peterlee to Sunderland.
RE: July 2023 changes - Jimmi - 26 May 2023
(26 May 2023, 10:38 am)RobinHood wrote X6 is a frequency increase, presumably in response to Arriva reduction on the 22/23.
It clear from the amount of chopping and changing that has happened between Peterlee and Sunderland (even before COVID-19), that it doesnt justify the level of resource being thrown at it.
Conversely, I see 23/24 buses between Peterlee and Hartlepool are normally very well used, still surprised GNE gave that up, as it is clearly worth more than Peterlee to Sunderland.
Peterlee to Hartlepool is clearly the better half of the route given its due to retain 4 buses an hour on this section on the 23/24.
That said, I saw a 23 heading along Ryhope Road, Sunderland towards Hartlepool around 1130 on Saturday morning and it was carrying a decent loading.
Form my experiences at least some trips can be busy, others aren't and not everyone's going to/from Sunderland between Peterlee and Sunderland you will get short hops plus people heading towards Dalton Park.
July 2023 changes - Dan - 26 May 2023
(26 May 2023, 10:38 am)RobinHood wrote X6 is a frequency increase, presumably in response to Arriva reduction on the 22/23.
It clear from the amount of chopping and changing that has happened between Peterlee and Sunderland (even before COVID-19), that it doesnt justify the level of resource being thrown at it.
Conversely, I see 23/24 buses between Peterlee and Hartlepool are normally very well used, still surprised GNE gave that up, as it is clearly worth more than Peterlee to Sunderland.
With the notification period now required, Go North East would not have been aware of any changes to the Arriva services at the time of providing pre-notification to local authorities of their changes from the same date.
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RE: July 2023 changes - Unber43 - 26 May 2023
Is there a reason why there are so many changes for different companies on the same date?
(26 May 2023, 5:21 pm)Dan wrote With the notification period now required, Go North East would not have been aware of any changes to the Arriva services at the time of providing pre-notification to local authorities of their changes from the same date.That's even better for GNE
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RE: July 2023 changes - busmanT - 26 May 2023
(26 May 2023, 6:15 am)Unber43 wrote THe only reason I think the X6 could be improved frequency wise is the fact that it is always busy both ways. But as well 208 is standalone.A frequency increase on the X6 won't cost an extra bus - there already is a peak only school bus in Peterlee/Seaham.
X6 could be timed to leave 10 mins before the 22/23 leaves
There are numerous trips by vans between Sunderland and Peterlee to do driver reliefs on the 206 & 208, which would be eliminated with an X6 frequency increase so as well as no extra bus required little extra mileage.
RE: July 2023 changes - Unber43 - 26 May 2023
(26 May 2023, 6:16 pm)busmanT wrote A frequency increase on the X6 won't cost an extra bus - there already is a peak only school bus in Peterlee/Seaham.Pretty sure I mentioned that or smth similar earlier?
There are numerous trips by vans between Sunderland and Peterlee to do driver reliefs on the 206 & 208, which would be eliminated with an X6 frequency increase so as well as no extra bus required little extra mileage.
RE: July 2023 changes - Economic505 - 26 May 2023
(26 May 2023, 5:21 pm)Dan wrote With the notification period now required, Go North East would not have been aware of any changes to the Arriva services at the time of providing pre-notification to local authorities of their changes from the same date.When travelling between
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Hartlepool and Sunderland , it pays to get a train. The bus journey is an absolute pain in the ass.
RE: July 2023 changes - Storx - 27 May 2023
(26 May 2023, 8:44 pm)Economic505 wrote When travelling between
Hartlepool and Sunderland , it pays to get a train. The bus journey is an absolute pain in the ass.
Arguably people should be doing that journey by train really, it makes no sense anyone using the bus. It's just the rail on the Durham Coast is terrible aswell.
RE: July 2023 changes - Unber43 - 27 May 2023
(27 May 2023, 7:48 am)Storx wrote Arguably people should be doing that journey by train really, it makes no sense anyone using the bus. It's just the rail on the Durham Coast is terrible aswell.The bus is £2, the train is £7.10 each way
I've done both the 22/23 both are awful journeys, but I would defo take them if I could save £10.
RE: July 2023 changes - F114TML - 27 May 2023
(26 May 2023, 6:52 am)purplesolo wrote The X6 is never ‘always’ busy both ways. Busiest journey is the 8am from Park Lane as we get all the office workers from Spectrum, rest of the time we don’t get close to filling a solo. Not unusual to leave Peterlee empty either.I've been on plenty of X6 journeys that are quite cosy.