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+--- Thread: Gold Standard (/showthread.php?tid=720)
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Gold Standard - Malarkey - 24 Oct 2013
http://www.simplygo.com/Gold-Standard
I have been thinking over the past few days about instead of having "Gold Standard" on just the Doors of some of GNE Fleet i.e. Citaros/Versas, why not have as a "Corporate Identity", much like Stagecoach Gold and Arriva Sapphire. Which GNE already have the Foundations in place, but in my opinion choose to cover it up in a Route Branding, for example Laser and Drifter to name a Few.
Now I am a Big of Route Branding on some Routes, as some do have Meaning and Links to the Regions History and Wildlife etc, The Red Kite and The Lambton Worm being great examples of that. Whereas some Brands are just completely pointless like FAB56/57 and Pronto which have zero meaning at all.
I know everybody has a different opinion on Route Branding which has been discussed in great detail on the Route Branding Thread. But could having the "Gold Standard" as a Corporate Identity be a Solution and having it run alongside the Northern Branding and the exception of a Few Brands like Red Kite as stated above.
I have came up with a Livery on PaperBus based on the Mercedes Citaro and Wright Gemini 2, I'll do a few more upon a Request i.e. Versa and Streetlite and I'll add them to my Flickr Page.
Mercedes Citaro http://www.flickr.com/photos/adammalarkey/10458332253/
Wright Gemini 2
http://www.flickr.com/photos/adammalarkey/10458142066/
So what is everyone's opinions?
RE: Gold Standard - Michael - 24 Oct 2013
I think route branding is a good idea BUT it should be limited to certain routes only, like the Red Kite.
I see they still haven't updated their Gold Standard page...
Regular ‘Open Line’ sessions every Wednesday
Bit off GNE here, Wonder of Stagecoach's Gas buses would be classed as "Stagecoach Gold"?
RE: Gold Standard - Malarkey - 24 Oct 2013
(24 Oct 2013, 2:05 pm)Michael wrote I think route branding is a good idea BUT it should be limited to certain routes only, like the Red Kite.
I see they still haven't updated their Gold Standard page...
Regular ‘Open Line’ sessions every Wednesday
Bit off GNE here, Wonder of Stagecoach's Gas buses would be classed as "Stagecoach Gold"?
That's a good thought regarding the Gas Buses for Stagecoach, shame I never actually thought about that when they were first announced, I assumed they'd be in the Green Livery like the E400H's.
GNE should bring back Open Line as I think it was an excellent facility to be able use and speak to the Managing Directors to give thoughts on improving service or just making a general complaint etc.
Just another thought the "Gold Standard" Corporate Identity doesn't have to be just GNE either, it could spread across the Go-Ahead Division with the exception of London which would be even better come to think of it as it would provide competition to the Stagecoach Gold and Arriva Sapphire Brands.
RE: Gold Standard - Dan - 24 Oct 2013
Decided to move this over to the off-topic bus chat section as I feel it is best suited to this area of the forum.
RE: Gold Standard - Adrian - 24 Oct 2013
I don't know about Arriva and Stagecoach's versions, as I've never used one, but the GNE Gold Standard only seems to apply when it suits. It has huge potential if proper time and resource was put into it. I don't disagree any of the points, with exception of the below.
- At least 95 % of our journeys will run ‘on time’ – that’s no more than 5 minutes late or 1 minute early
- Open reporting of our punctuality and reliability performance to customers
I've previously asked for data on all X1 runs over a monthly period so that I can work out what % ran on time, and what ran within GNE's definition of 'on time'. Despite promising open reporting (which I believe my request was), I was told I couldn't have that information. I couldn't even have a percentage specific to that service.
Where is this data published? What is the sample?
- We will do our utmost to communicate to customers when disruption to service occurs
How exactly? I've asked several times in the past via both Facebook and Twitter where a service is, due to it not turning up at the published time. I've simply been given an apology and asked if I have managed to travel yet. If I reply to that, I'm told there are no reports.
- Regular cleaning every night and during the day.
Rubbish - and lots of it. I've been on the first bus of the day on several Gold Standard services, and there's visible dirt. A quick sweep on a night isn't classed as cleaning in my book. I'd also suggest the regular cleaning through the day doesn't happen either, unless someone can prove to me otherwise?
- Comprehensive guides with full timetable and route map, delivered door to door at key areas along the route, at least 14 days ahead of any changes.
I live equal distance from both an M1 and an X1 stop. I've never had a comprehensive guide with full timetable and route map delivered to my door. I did have a quick leaflet on the Connections 4, which was the first GNE publication to be posted to me, but I had to go and get a timetable myself.
- Regular ‘Open Line’ sessions every Wednesday
Do they happen? I've never seen one for about a year.
RE: Gold Standard - cbma06 - 24 Oct 2013
(24 Oct 2013, 6:50 pm)aureolin wrote I don't know about Arriva and Stagecoach's versions, as I've never used one, but the GNE Gold Standard only seems to apply when it suits. It has huge potential if proper time and resource was put into it. I don't disagree any of the points, with exception of the below.
I've previously asked for data on all X1 runs over a monthly period so that I can work out what % ran on time, and what ran within GNE's definition of 'on time'. Despite promising open reporting (which I believe my request was), I was told I couldn't have that information. I couldn't even have a percentage specific to that service.
Where is this data published? What is the sample?
How exactly? I've asked several times in the past via both Facebook and Twitter where a service is, due to it not turning up at the published time. I've simply been given an apology and asked if I have managed to travel yet. If I reply to that, I'm told there are no reports.
Rubbish - and lots of it. I've been on the first bus of the day on several Gold Standard services, and there's visible dirt. A quick sweep on a night isn't classed as cleaning in my book. I'd also suggest the regular cleaning through the day doesn't happen either, unless someone can prove to me otherwise?
I live equal distance from both an M1 and an X1 stop. I've never had a comprehensive guide with full timetable and route map delivered to my door. I did have a quick leaflet on the Connections 4, which was the first GNE publication to be posted to me, but I had to go and get a timetable myself.
Do they happen? I've never seen one for about a year.
OpenLine sessions was introduced by the ex MD Peter Huntley, but this new MD at GNE didn't want it no more
RE: Gold Standard - Adrian - 24 Oct 2013
(24 Oct 2013, 7:14 pm)cbma06 wrote OpenLine sessions was introduced by the ex MD Peter Huntley, but this new MD at GNE didn't want it no more
Disappointing really. I always found it useful. I think the companies are really missing a trick here, as it's one way of winning the public over at a time they really need public opinion.
RE: Gold Standard - Malarkey - 24 Oct 2013
(24 Oct 2013, 4:12 pm)Dan wrote Decided to move this over to the off-topic bus chat section as I feel it is best suited to this area of the forum.
No Problem Daniel, would it not be better under Bus Management and Infrastructure as it ties in with the Conversation on the Branding Thread.
RE: Gold Standard - Kuyoyo - 24 Oct 2013
(24 Oct 2013, 6:50 pm)aureolin wrote I don't know about Arriva and Stagecoach's versions, as I've never used one, but the GNE Gold Standard only seems to apply when it suits. It has huge potential if proper time and resource was put into it. I don't disagree any of the points, with exception of the below.
Here is the Stagecoach Gold 'Customer Charter'
http://www.stagecoachgold.com/uploads/customercharter.pdf
The main difference between the Stagecoach and Arriva versions (and, I presume, First's new 'Platinum' brand) are high-specification vehicles (Leather Seats, WiFi, Plug Sockets on 'Sapphire') plus a pledge whereas Go North East's 'Gold Standard' is just the pledge. They'd be a marketable difference if Stagecoach brought Gold to the North East against a GNE 'Gold Standard' route.
RE: Gold Standard - CatsFast101 - 24 Oct 2013
In regards to 'cleaning' I think GNE's idea of 'cleaning' is a quick bit sweep as I've seen day-old bus tickets on many bus services, old papers stuffed down the side etc. I've seen a man come on certain buses at various times of the day with a sweeping brush but only ever on the 20/X35/56, never ever seen someone do it on a 60/42/35.
95% journeys run on time. There's no evidence to support this, who's knows if this true or not? I find it hard to believe.
They never notify of services breaking down, not running or operating late. As you say you ask them on Facebook/Twitter they say 'No reports, have you traveled yet' 'No' 'Please contact us on email' and then an hour late 'I'm afraid the service broke down, apologies'
I've never known them hand out timetables to residents, know one I know has ever had one.
Open line sessions were axed, tbf they were just enthusiasts asking question about buses, fleet and allocations.
RE: Gold Standard - citaro5284 - 24 Oct 2013
(24 Oct 2013, 9:10 pm)CatsFast101 wrote In regards to 'cleaning' I think GNE's idea of 'cleaning' is a quick bit sweep
Wrong!
(24 Oct 2013, 9:10 pm)CatsFast101 wrote 95% journeys run on time. There's no evidence to support this, who's knows if this true or not? I find it hard to believe.
What proof do you have that they do not?
(24 Oct 2013, 9:10 pm)CatsFast101 wrote They never notify of services breaking down, not running or operating late. As you say you ask them on Facebook/Twitter they say 'No reports, have you traveled yet' 'No' 'Please contact us on email' and then an hour late 'I'm afraid the service broke down, apologies'
Do Stagecoach and Arriva?
(24 Oct 2013, 9:10 pm)CatsFast101 wrote I've never known them hand out timetables to residents, know one I know has ever had one.
Did I not read recently have some people had Connections 4 leaflets pushed through some letterboxes?
(24 Oct 2013, 9:10 pm)CatsFast101 wrote Open line sessions were axed, tbf they were just enthusiasts asking question about buses, fleet and allocations.
Correct.....not getting used as it was intended
RE: Gold Standard - CatsFast101 - 24 Oct 2013
(24 Oct 2013, 9:31 pm)citaro5284 wrote Wrong!
What proof do you have that they do not?
Do Stagecoach and Arriva?
Did I not read recently have some people had Connections 4 leaflets pushed through some letterboxes?
Correct.....not getting used as it was intended
Well like I say there's no two ways about it, cleaning could be improved.
We don't have nah proof either way that's the problem, I recall stagecoach having a list of journey taking from a sample on board buses.
No they don't. But that don't make it right. Two (or three) wrongs don't make a right.
Yes Connections4 have, but it's the only example to date. If this is a sign of the new way and things to come then all well in good, a positive step forward.
RE: Gold Standard - Malarkey - 24 Oct 2013
Only time i've seen a bus getting cleaned during the day is on the X66, which happens on a Daily Basis, As for the Timetables there is always loads of them on Buses or in the Travel Shop so no need really to send them through post unless it's Consultation.
Quite surprised nobody has commented about having it as an Actual Corporate Livery as I had mentioned in my original post and thoughts on the Livery I had came up with on the Citaro/Gemini.
RE: Gold Standard - MrFozz - 25 Oct 2013
I aint a fan of branding in it's current form, but what I would love to see is a return to Regional Identities, with each region having a degree of autonomy from top management, along the lines of the early 90's split
Wear Buses - Deptford and Washington
Go Northern - Chester-le-Street and Stanley
Go-Gateshead - Gateshead and Winlaton
Coastline - Percy Main
A new Tynedale Travel - Hexham
The Low Cost Units becoming OK Travel
To go with Mr Malarkeys idea of a Gold Standard brand, each area could have it's own dedicated Gold Standard services and staff as a sub-brand of it's area e.g. Wear Gold, Northern Gold, Gateshead Gold, Gold Coast and Tynedale Gold...
I am guessing candidates for Gold Services would be(the first what come to mind, the more used services)
Deptford: 20, 35, 42, 56
Washington: X1
Gateshead: X9, X10
Chester: 21
Stanley: ???
Winlaton: ???
Hexham: ???
Just a thought
Re: RE: Gold Standard - Adrian - 25 Oct 2013
(24 Oct 2013, 9:31 pm)citaro5284 wrote What proof do you have that they do not?
Maybe you can chase up the data I asked for under the 'open reporting' policy then.
RE: Gold Standard - BJ10VUS - 25 Oct 2013
I thought the "95% of journeys run on time" was a VOSA target anyway?
RE: Gold Standard - Chris - 25 Oct 2013
It is, although there are plans to increase it to 100% I understand.
Is it currently 95% of all journies, or 95% of monitored journies?
Am I right in thinking that a journey can run late part of the route, but as long as it leaves its monitored timing point on time (or within VOSA's definitions) then it's classed as on time?
RE: Gold Standard - Chris - 25 Oct 2013
The whole branding/gold standard debate is an interesting one, certainly one with a lot of mileage in it. Bearing in mind the old "opinions are like ar*eholes..." saying, heres mine:
First up, Northern. Keep it. Lighten the shade maybe, add a dash of white (I'm thinking the old Northern proud of our routes era) but get rid of any reference to Go North East. It just confuses things in my opinion. Interestingly, people from my neck of the woods with no interest in buses whatsover still refer to "The Northern". Use it, harness it. Go North East as a name means nothing.
Next up, I'd keep the brandings specific to a local area as is. I'm thinking East Durham, Tynedale Links, Venture. One base colour, couple of vinyls, job done.
Your high profile express routes (Tyne Tees e.g) & trunk routes (Angel, Red Kite etc) keep as branded. Decent paint job, higher quality vinyls etc - enough to tell the difference in quality between a local East Durham for example, if that makes sense.
The rest, get rid (Pulse, Fab 57 etc). Northern livery, maybe with route specific lettering.
I've been impressed with recent efforts (revised Ten, TTX, Angel, Tynedale Links) - to me they give off an impression of quality. And so they should, obviously the vehicles help.
I just think, if you're going to do it, do it properly. Too many dilutes the whole thing. I can totally understand why they've gone down this route, I just think it's gone a bit too far.
RE: Gold Standard - BJ10VUS - 25 Oct 2013
(25 Oct 2013, 11:52 am)Chris wrote It is, although there are plans to increase it to 100% I understand.
Is it currently 95% of all journies, or 95% of monitored journies?
Am I right in thinking that a journey can run late part of the route, but as long as it leaves its monitored timing point on time (or within VOSA's definitions) then it's classed as on time?
"On time" means departures no more than 1 minute early/5 minutes late. I think the change was to get rid of the 1 minute early and change it to 0 minutes early. Not sure 100% is a realistic target, really?
RE: Gold Standard - Chris - 25 Oct 2013
(25 Oct 2013, 12:46 pm)BJ10VUS wrote "On time" means departures no more than 1 minute early/5 minutes late. I think the change was to get rid of the 1 minute early and change it to 0 minutes early. Not sure 100% is a realistic target, really?
Exactly, can't be done. The industry in general and the likes of route one are lobbying the TC to change their minds, lets hope common sense prevails.
RE: Gold Standard - Andreos1 - 25 Oct 2013
(25 Oct 2013, 11:12 am)BJ10VUS wrote I thought the "95% of journeys run on time" was a VOSA target anyway?
and then you get the regulated journies... Fare enough if a service is frequent, less so when people are left standing for 30mins+ with no alternative.
My personal thoughts to branding are explained in the branding thread.
However, I have to agree that the GNE Gold Standard (and Easyaccess Guarantee)seems a bit half hearted and lacklustre compared to other operators, particularly when it comes to the regular feedback relating to broken ramps or drivers not calling taxi's on the fb page.
If a company (whoever it is) is going to make a promise or gurantee, they need to stick to it.
RE: Gold Standard - Chris - 25 Oct 2013
(25 Oct 2013, 12:51 pm)Andreos1 wrote My personal thoughts to branding are explained in the branding thread.
Good point, think I've probably posted this in the wrong thread.
I don't use buses as much as I would like to these days, is regulation a big thing up here? I know in London it is. I guess if you regulate or don't regulate, there will always be winners and losers. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
RE: Gold Standard - Malarkey - 25 Oct 2013
For me as much as I love Branding I do think now that it has past it time as I feel it is starting to lack creativity and thought, Look at the New Drifter Brand, apparently it's going to be pretty much the same as the Coaster Brand.
I will give GNE credit where credit is due as they have tried to change the style of Branding to a Simplistic but Effective one on the Tynedale Xpress for example which similar to Trent Bartons Liveries. I think GNE should go for change now and make the "Gold Standard" a Corporate Livery, the Infrastructure is already in place and they have the Buses/Routes under Gold Standard but without the Identity as it is Covered up.
I think it could be a Major Benefit if GNE were to Capitalize on it more, plus they could make Major Saving in the long run on Repaints, Yeah at First they'd have to Repaint the Fleet which would take time and cost a lot of Money and would take a Year or 2 maybe more to fully Implement. But after that they'd be Saving Money. Lothian Buses are a excellent Example when it comes to a Repainting Program as they've been doing there's for a good few years now.
Also by Capitalizing on the Gold Standard more I think it would also allow for GNE to Branch out more in areas such as Bishop Auckland/Darlington where they were Unsuccessful with the OK1, If they were offer Passengers in that Area a better Deal and Buses and also Services to that of what Arriva are offering with Sapphire which starts this Sunday on Service 7 Durham - Darlington, would the OK1 if GNE had did what I am proposing over a Year ago been more Successful than what it was?
So if GNE were to Implement "Gold Standard" as a Corporate Livery from 2014, The following Services would fall under "Gold Standard".
Angel 21
Blaydon Racers 49/49A/49B/49C
Citylink 58
Coaster 1
Cobalt Clipper 309/310
Cobalt Connect 19
Connections 4
Crusader 27
Drifter 60
Diamond 43/44
FAB 56
Laser 35/35A/35B/35C
Lambton Worm 34/34A
Pronto X21
Quaylink Q1/Q2
Red Arrows X1
Red Kite 45/46
Saltwell Park 53/54
Silver Arrows 2A/2C
Simplicity 39 TBC/42
South Tyne 88/88A
Sunderland Connect 700
Ten
Tyne Tees Xpress X9/X10
Whey Aye 50
X66
Now here is where we have Major Probelm, There is way too many Routes that fall under "Gold Standard", and what GNE would need is an Equal Balance between this and the Northern Brand. A few of the Brands on the list above as already discussed would be taken off as they'd be the Select few Brands we as Enthusiasts would keep.
RE: Gold Standard - BJ10VUS - 25 Oct 2013
(25 Oct 2013, 12:51 pm)Andreos1 wrote and then you get the regulated journies... Fare enough if a service is frequent, less so when people are left standing for 30mins+ with no alternative.
I think the 21 and 27 are particularly bad at this, with services being turned around at Chester-le-Street instead of Durham and Gateshead instead of Newcastle.
RE: Gold Standard - Andreos1 - 25 Oct 2013
(25 Oct 2013, 1:01 pm)Chris wrote Good point, think I've probably posted this in the wrong thread.
I don't use buses as much as I would like to these days, is regulation a big thing up here? I know in London it is. I guess if you regulate or don't regulate, there will always be winners and losers. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
A bus I was on the other day was late, supposed to be regulated and switched to NIS towards the last couple of miles of the journey according to the radio - the driver apparently refused, because 'there was no sign of the following bus'.
There are the examples given above by BJ10VUS, someone (possibly Fozz) mentioned about the x1 running short to Hetton, the 78 has been stopped more than once or misses out Chester South Burns.
The old 21a on a Sunday when it ran to Peterlee was always missing in action.
RE: Gold Standard - Malarkey - 25 Oct 2013
(25 Oct 2013, 3:28 pm)Andreos1 wrote A bus I was on the other day was late, supposed to be regulated and switched to NIS towards the last couple of miles of the journey according to the radio - the driver apparently refused, because 'there was no sign of the following bus'.
There are the examples given above by BJ10VUS, someone (possibly Fozz) mentioned about the x1 running short to Hetton, the 78 has been stopped more than once or misses out Chester South Burns.
The old 21a on a Sunday when it ran to Peterlee was always missing in action.
FAB56 is another example, Everytime I in Gateshead there is one or 2 terminating in the Interchange, proves the reliability of the service is poor, as for the 21 there is a Short Working Every 15 Mins to Chester le Street
RE: Gold Standard - citaro5284 - 25 Oct 2013
(25 Oct 2013, 3:54 pm)Adam Malarkey wrote FAB56 is another example, Everytime I in Gateshead there is one or 2 terminating in the Interchange, proves the reliability of the service is poor
Everytime - Are you sure?
RE: Gold Standard - Malarkey - 25 Oct 2013
(25 Oct 2013, 4:12 pm)citaro5284 wrote Everytime - Are you sure?
Everytime i'm Gateshead which is like every few weeks, but must happen daily due to lateness
December 18th 2012 - On Layover in Gateshead Interchange Due to lateness
http://www.flickr.com/photos/adammalarkey/8283748511/in/set-72157636048699315
May 30th 2013 - On Layover in Gateshead Interchange due to lateness
http://www.flickr.com/photos/adammalarkey/8893987593/
August 7th 2013 - Coming off the Layover on the Wrong side of the of the Bus Station due to lateness
http://www.flickr.com/photos/adammalarkey/9465398099/in/set-72157633040126278
So there is 3 Occasions I have accounted for due to lateness in the Past Year.
RE: Gold Standard - citaro5284 - 25 Oct 2013
(25 Oct 2013, 4:27 pm)Adam Malarkey wrote Everytime i'm Gateshead which is like every few weeks, but must happen daily due to lateness
December 18th 2012 - On Layover in Gateshead Interchange Due to lateness
http://www.flickr.com/photos/adammalarkey/8283748511/in/set-72157636048699315
May 30th 2013 - On Layover in Gateshead Interchange due to lateness
http://www.flickr.com/photos/adammalarkey/8893987593/
August 7th 2013 - Coming off the Layover on the Wrong side of the of the Bus Station due to lateness
http://www.flickr.com/photos/adammalarkey/9465398099/in/set-72157633040126278
So there is 3 Occasions I have accounted for due to lateness in the Past Year.
So, 3 times since 18 December 2012, and then you say it is a daily occurrence. The service operates 7 days a week, so since the 18th Dec, it will have operated 310 days and everyone of the other 307 days there would have been a journey terminated at Gateshead purely down to late operation. Somehow, I do not think so, but I will take a look at the lost mileage and let you know.
RE: Gold Standard - Malarkey - 25 Oct 2013
(25 Oct 2013, 4:37 pm)citaro5284 wrote So, 3 times since 18 December 2012, and then you say it is a daily occurrence. The service operates 7 days a week, so since the 18th Dec, it will have operated 310 days and everyone of the other 307 days there would have been a journey terminated at Gateshead purely down to late operation. Somehow, I do not think so, but I will take a look at the lost mileage and let you know.
No problem Citaro5284, These photos were taken at peak times also between 4pm and 6pm so the School Run would of had an impact on Lateness.