(16 Sep 2023, 10:15 am)Fleetmaster wrote I drive all over County Durham and Northumberland for work, and have been quite surprised at how effective a bland corporate livery is in making sure I have absolutely no interest in where these buses go anymore.

I just see numbers, and they don't mean anything, not least since it is not a given that the number 52 you saw in one remote village is the same one you saw a few towns over. The uniformity is even worse given there are now only a few vehicle types in use, the length and frequency much less the traffic type being no determinant to what turns up in in bland red. Not that the paying punter should really have to become a bus nerd to be able to comprehend the utility of the network.

The real tragedy is, given how many of GNEs routes actually travel vast distances while still somehow finding the time to call in at assorted nooks and crannies, it is exactly where route branding would make sense.

London uses route branding too btw, when it is trying to grow new markets and transform travel habits. That was of course the whole damn point of branding the GNE fleet in the first place.

(16 Sep 2023, 10:15 am)Fleetmaster wrote I drive all over County Durham and Northumberland for work, and have been quite surprised at how effective a bland corporate livery is in making sure I have absolutely no interest in where these buses go anymore.

I just see numbers, and they don't mean anything, not least since it is not a given that the number 52 you saw in one remote village is the same one you saw a few towns over. The uniformity is even worse given there are now only a few vehicle types in use, the length and frequency much less the traffic type being no determinant to what turns up in in bland red. Not that the paying punter should really have to become a bus nerd to be able to comprehend the utility of the network.

The real tragedy is, given how many of GNEs routes actually travel vast distances while still somehow finding the time to call in at assorted nooks and crannies, it is exactly where route branding would make sense.

London uses route branding too btw, when it is trying to grow new markets and transform travel habits. That was of course the whole damn point of branding the GNE fleet in the first place.

(16 Sep 2023, 2:24 pm)Shrek wrote Over the years, I've had plenty of people ask me if the 47 has been yet, never have they asked if the Red Kite has turned up. I think outside of the bus community, most people don't even notice or care about the branding.

(16 Sep 2023, 2:24 pm)Shrek wrote Over the years, I've had plenty of people ask me if the 47 has been yet, never have they asked if the Red Kite has turned up. I think outside of the bus community, most people don't even notice or care about the branding.

(16 Sep 2023, 3:44 pm)Andreos1 wrote The number of times I've heard it referred to as 'The Northern' or heard people refer to a bus number that no longer exists, but the route does - quite remarkable.

All that money. All that time. 
Anyway, got to go, I need to get the shopping from Savacentre. Hopefully the 194 isn't too late.

(16 Sep 2023, 6:53 pm)Fleetmaster wrote Bustimes.org is all anyone needs to figure out the where/when/what regarding journeys they already plan to make, whether in the next few days or next few minutes.

Branding is the best way to alert potential future customers that a bus does actually exist can meet their future needs. It worked for me, several times.

This doesn't matter in London because most people have no real choice but to use the bus, and are deeply envious of those lucky few who have other options, regardless of whether that is a tube/train or a taxi/car. TfL is making a big effort to brand SUPERLOOP precisely because they know that in those outer areas, where people actually have a choice, usually a private car, they already know those people really wouldn't notice that the X26 has been renumbered the SL3, let alone the reason for that is because it has a slightly faster and more direct route and runs far more frequently as part of a nominal outer London loop. To those people, a bus is just a bus, easily ignored if you have no pressing need to know the network.

That is what a bland corporate identity does. Most people are normal, they don't spend their days remembering the number of the various buses they see in their daily lives, or poring over network maps, just on on off chance they one day might need that specific route.

Evolution is a powerful force, and it has given humans an uncanny ability to spot patterns in the visual environment for a reason. Evolution knows nothing of numbers and maps.

I only know the X1 that works its way through tiny streets in deepest darkest Durham is the same X1 that I see every time I arrive arrive Newcastle by bus, because it's branded. I have no pressing need to make that journey today, but who knows what tomorrow brings. Those places are well within my daily sphere.

What I do know from basic common sense, is that up here in the north east, there is absolutely no reason to assume an X1 seen in two different places tens of miles apart, is the same route. 

(16 Sep 2023, 6:53 pm)Fleetmaster wrote Bustimes.org is all anyone needs to figure out the where/when/what regarding journeys they already plan to make, whether in the next few days or next few minutes.

Branding is the best way to alert potential future customers that a bus does actually exist can meet their future needs. It worked for me, several times.

This doesn't matter in London because most people have no real choice but to use the bus, and are deeply envious of those lucky few who have other options, regardless of whether that is a tube/train or a taxi/car. TfL is making a big effort to brand SUPERLOOP precisely because they know that in those outer areas, where people actually have a choice, usually a private car, they already know those people really wouldn't notice that the X26 has been renumbered the SL3, let alone the reason for that is because it has a slightly faster and more direct route and runs far more frequently as part of a nominal outer London loop. To those people, a bus is just a bus, easily ignored if you have no pressing need to know the network.

That is what a bland corporate identity does. Most people are normal, they don't spend their days remembering the number of the various buses they see in their daily lives, or poring over network maps, just on on off chance they one day might need that specific route.

Evolution is a powerful force, and it has given humans an uncanny ability to spot patterns in the visual environment for a reason. Evolution knows nothing of numbers and maps.

I only know the X1 that works its way through tiny streets in deepest darkest Durham is the same X1 that I see every time I arrive arrive Newcastle by bus, because it's branded. I have no pressing need to make that journey today, but who knows what tomorrow brings. Those places are well within my daily sphere.

What I do know from basic common sense, is that up here in the north east, there is absolutely no reason to assume an X1 seen in two different places tens of miles apart, is the same route.

(16 Sep 2023, 5:33 pm)MurdnunoC wrote I saw a DFDS branded bus on the 16 in Stanley today, yet I am unable to find any comms regarding the new extension between Stanley and Tyne Commission Quay. Does this service still go to Consett?

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(16 Sep 2023, 7:36 pm)Chris 1 wrote I would have said turning up and consistently delivering a service is the best way to alert customers the bus can meet their needs? Preferably roughly on time. A missing branded bus is as infuriating as a missing corporate bus. Similar to comments above, folk round my way still refer The Northern and route numbers that haven’t existed for 20 years or more.

Stagecoach for example don’t operate round my way. If I ever had the need to visit say Throckley, I know that the 22 will do me fine. General day to day observation has alerted me to this, rather than the fizz and froth of a branded bus.

(16 Sep 2023, 8:02 pm)Storx wrote Have to relate to this, mind I'd use the X82 - tongue in cheek as it's 10x quicker.

The brands have just caused confusion imo since some of them have been changed more times than GoNorthEast have pissed around with the local routes in Washington.

Are we going for the Creme Drifter, Green Drifter, The 9's, The Sunderland Blues, The Sunderland Violets, East Durham Explorer or Corporate bus? As that's what has been on the 61/9/61/61A in the past decade and no doubt there's other routes even worse.

Also if someone can use BusTimes, I'd be concerned if they don't understand the number of the route. BusTimes is not user friendly unless ironically you know the route number you want as brands aren't mentioned on there...?

(16 Sep 2023, 9:10 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Branding works extremely well in Stanley. I'm off to Amsterdam tomorrow on that DFDS branded 16 I saw earlier today.

(16 Sep 2023, 10:13 pm)Shrek wrote I know this is a very small sample size, but I know eight people who regularly get the X1 between Washington and Newcastle. I sent them a message tonight asking if they know what the brand name for the x1 is. Only one or the eight knew.

I honestly don't think branding has a big impact for the majority, though clearly for the a small number it will.

(16 Sep 2023, 7:15 pm)Fleetmaster wrote Where I live, the main street in places like Horden, is a tiny back street. The whole place is a tiny backwater. 

If Go North East doesn't want people to know there are direct bus links from major hubs to these tiny distant places, unless they are unlucky enough to have to make this journey as a regular commuter, so be it.

In my travels, I noticed a few points of interest in places like Horden that I might want to make a specific trip to one day. I have access to a car, and don't mind using the combination of bike and train either. It is only because I have a good idea of hwo vast GNE's operating area is, that I would even know to look up whether a direct bus exists, in some nightmare future where the whole network is one red blob. Others probably don't know these things, just like they don't spend a second perusing network maps and publicity just out of general interest.

(16 Sep 2023, 10:32 pm)Andreos1 wrote In which case, you've yet again contradicted yourself, because the X1 goes nowhere near Horden.

(16 Sep 2023, 10:30 pm)Storx wrote It's not, let's be honest for most people it's because they have no alternative. No-one would use the buses up here, if they had a choice because of the absolutely shambles of the service they're providing especially with GoNorthEast and Arriva. I wouldn't be surprised if 99% of people in the real world would be happy if GoNorthEast went bust and their route was took over by someone else. Imagine it being similar for Arriva aswell.

It'd be very interesting if they done a genuine poll of the approval ratings for them as I wouldn't be surprised if it's well below 20%. Of course, not the ones that are done on the buses which are as reliable as a donkey. Infact that might actually get you there, when there's 3 hour gaps like on some routes today.

(16 Sep 2023, 10:43 pm)Fleetmaster wrote To labour the point, the branding is not there to attract the attention of people already familiar with the service because they use it regularly. It would be no surprise that those people can just about tell the approaching bus has the right number. I doubt they even notice if the destination is wrong. And in that specific case, as far as I know, it no longer even has a name. It used to be the Red Arrow, now it is just the red variant of X-Lines. The gold and red makes it instantly recognizable. That is the brand, in simple terms.

(17 Sep 2023, 12:07 am)mb134 wrote This seems to be quite a pessimistic view on things. 

As I think I've said on here before, I commute daily by bus. I have a car parked outside which I could use, and occasionally do if it's going to be a long day. The bus is unbranded and on an hourly frequency. 

In the past year of me using it, it hasn't shown up in the AM on one occasion (breakdown), and on the way home on one occasion. It's generally very punctual, the fares outside of the £2 cap aren't too bad, and the vehicle is generally pretty clean inside. In that year, I've watched the service go from carrying 15-20 or so on my morning commute to well over 40 most mornings across the entire journey, and it appears to be getting even busier the past couple of weeks. I imagine the people using that service are probably pretty happy with the delivery of it, and the money they're paying to use it. 

Maybe the folks that get my bus don't grumble too much, but even on the few occasions where stuff has gone wrong (gridlocked traffic, bus late because of roadworks, ridiculous council road closures and diversions etc.) they generally seem pretty understanding and have a laugh about it rather than getting irate with the driver or wishing it was ran by First Bus/NatEx/Lothian/insert bus company name here.

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You seem to be suggesting that branding is used to attract new customers to a service, and is the only way of achieving this. 

In my reply to Storx I've highlighted that the service I use on a daily basis is completely unbranded, yet has ballooned in popularity over the past year of me using it. There's also been very little in the way of promotion of the service as far as I've seen. How do you propose they've managed this?

(16 Sep 2023, 8:02 pm)Storx wrote Have to relate to this, mind I'd use the X82 - tongue in cheek as it's 10x quicker.

The brands have just caused confusion imo since some of them have been changed more times than GoNorthEast have pissed around with the local routes in Washington.

Are we going for the Creme Drifter, Green Drifter, The 9's, The Sunderland Blues, The Sunderland Violets, East Durham Explorer or Corporate bus? As that's what has been on the 61/9/61/61A in the past decade and no doubt there's other routes even worse.

Also if someone can use BusTimes, I'd be concerned if they don't understand the number of the route. BusTimes is not user friendly unless ironically you know the route number you want as brands aren't mentioned on there...?

(16 Sep 2023, 10:13 pm)Shrek wrote I know this is a very small sample size, but I know eight people who regularly get the X1 between Washington and Newcastle. I sent them a message tonight asking if they know what the brand name for the x1 is. Only one or the eight knew.

I honestly don't think branding has a big impact for the majority, though clearly for the a small number it will.

(19 Sep 2023, 8:29 pm)Drifter60 wrote Oh you forgot the SimpliCity Purple Versas and then the plain Silver Mercs cast offs from the 2A! The 61 has to be the worst, but sure there’s others not far behind!

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Ask your sample if they knew the Red Arrows bus! I think whilst people probably never referred to it as such, people noticed the name. I think it was a daft decision to change it really, although I know why they did it.

(19 Sep 2023, 8:29 pm)Drifter60 wrote

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Ask your sample if they knew the Red Arrows bus! I think whilst people probably never referred to it as such, people noticed the name. I think it was a daft decision to change it really, although I know why they did it.

(19 Sep 2023, 9:09 pm)Shrek wrote "the bus that's always late" ?