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+--- Thread: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers (/showthread.php?tid=2207)
RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - DeltaMan - 18 Aug 2022
(18 Aug 2022, 6:26 pm)BusLoverMum wrote And clearly not interested in the views of those who work weekdays, 9-5
Sadly it's usually "an empty vessel makes the loudest noise" types that turn up to pre advertised stakeholder events. They are next to useless for getting meaningful feedback from folk that don't have transport front and centre in thier mind.
As perverse as it sounds they should not promote the event. They should just turn up and speak to "ordinary" people as they walk past. Go to the Blue Mall car park/bus station entrance and talk to folk
RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - Adrian - 18 Aug 2022
(18 Aug 2022, 6:26 pm)BusLoverMum wrote And clearly not interested in the views of those who work weekdays, 9-5
A shopping centre during the working day, as oppose to say a business park housing thousands of employees across multiple employers, where there's massive potential to improve public transport.
RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - omnicity4659 - 18 Aug 2022
There's a huge network of ANPR cameras, if the data can be anonymised and analysed it would give some idea of where trends in traffic flows are occurring. Then an interurban bus network can be formed around it.
At the moment, nobody actually knows where people are travelling to and from, not even agencies like National Highways. Counts of drivers are done as they drive past so can only give a good idea of traffic in that particular spot.
RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - BusLoverMum - 19 Aug 2022
(18 Aug 2022, 9:34 pm)omnicity4659 wrote There's a huge network of ANPR cameras, if the data can be anonymised and analysed it would give some idea of where trends in traffic flows are occurring. Then an interurban bus network can be formed around it.This sort of thing is done already. That's how those matrix signs inform you that it's going to take you 25 minutes to cover 10 minutes worth of A1.
At the moment, nobody actually knows where people are travelling to and from, not even agencies like National Highways. Counts of drivers are done as they drive past so can only give a good idea of traffic in that particular spot.
I don't think it's widespread in cities, yet, though. It's different people responsible for those roads.
RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - Ambassador - 19 Aug 2022
We've arranged for Nexus to visit our offices to talk transport but it's just their marketing team to be honest.
Trying to get GNE to attend is difficult. I travelled with a Colleague on the bus yesterday. We caught the X39 there and back. Journey out was fanastic - just as quick as catching a cab from town as she'd normally do. Driver was lovely (they tend to be on that route) bus was clean and although busy - seats secured.
The way back - 6140 turned up and it was rancid inside. It smelt musky, there was mould and broken seals around the windows. The paint was flaked off the grab bars and backs of the seats, grafitti on seat backs and seats incredibly poor as legroom was non existent and the ride quality poor.
It's genuinely put her off using the bus again as she found it what she called a 'stereotypical' journey as she imagines thats what all buses are like.
RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - F114TML - 19 Aug 2022
Better than ever! Mind, I've never had the best of relationships with Omnidekkas - I find the leg room barely existent.
On a different note, can't remember in which thread it was (thought this'd be the most appropriate for the response) but someone mentioned places like Dalton Park being built with cars in mind, well feast your eyes on this advert that's appeared on various buses:
![[Image: unknown.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/404364425043116033/1010213035736060025/unknown.png)
I think a Mr Stenning might have a few things to say about that.
RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - Andreos1 - 19 Aug 2022
(19 Aug 2022, 3:46 pm)F114TML wrote Better than ever! Mind, I've never had the best of relationships with Omnidekkas - I find the leg room barely existent.
On a different note, can't remember in which thread it was (thought this'd be the most appropriate for the response) but someone mentioned places like Dalton Park being built with cars in mind, well feast your eyes on this advert that's appeared on various buses:
I think a Mr Stenning might have a few things to say about that.
Not just yet. Maybe in a month or two once he finds he doesn't have any more work.
Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - Dan - 19 Aug 2022
(19 Aug 2022, 6:06 pm)Andreos1 wrote Not just yet. Maybe in a month or two once he finds he doesn't have any more work.
Why would he no longer have any work at Go North East?
Don’t Go North West use Best Impressions?
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RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - Unber43 - 19 Aug 2022
(19 Aug 2022, 7:45 pm)Dan wrote Why would he no longer have any work at Go North East?Sadly
Don’t Go North West use Best Impressions?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - Andreos1 - 19 Aug 2022
(19 Aug 2022, 7:45 pm)Dan wrote Why would he no longer have any work at Go North East?
Don’t Go North West use Best Impressions?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What? You mean the cronyism is going to continue?
RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - Andreos1 - 25 Aug 2022
(18 Aug 2022, 3:41 pm)Andreos1 wrote https://twitter.com/transport_north/status/1560265714249764865?t=b03JVSyzTUe90qFgjTaO4g&s=19
I'd go, but I'd have to drive there...
https://twitter.com/transport_north/status/1562711607511519233?t=ahEnGPTqN2rxQSJEJxKxUA&s=19
The next event has been announced.
RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - nova347 - 11 Oct 2022
When it comes to declining passenger numbers, the number of routes that have been cut completely, and the frequency dropped all have an effect. I know I get the 60 basically daily and almost always most of the seats are full if not completely rammed especially in the mornings and from 3 pm, even midday journeys are quite busy.
Not to mention I go to college in Sunderland and the 20/20A/35 have been extremely busy over the past few weeks since I've started going back to college. I think the frequency drop will have a big impact on how many people use the bus, I'm currently learning to drive and before the July changes and then the September changes I was still planning to get the bus to college even when I pass but now, the '60s are always packed, 61's are rammed. And the 20/20A/35 towards college are just rammed all the time, the cancellation of the 55 and the X20 and the drop in frequency of the 60/61 have affected that decision and as soon as I pass I will start driving. As for me getting the bus was the best option, as I get the 5-25 weekly ticket for £18, which was £17, so now I'm paying more for a more limited service.
And not to mention my Aunt who has a car nearly always gets the bus when going to Newcastle, Durham, Consett, Stanley etc, but now since the X70 has been cut she gets the car. By cutting links your cutting your passenger numbers.
Even since the 65 has been cut, a lot of my friends who go to Durham Sixth Form & New Durham College get the car now because the buses are late and are a nightmare.
I understand the issue when it comes to the lack of drivers, and I would rather have a limited service than no service at all but if you look at all the cuts and then compare the number of services that are cut it looks like they're just barely getting any new drivers. Hopefully, once the driver shortage etc has been resolved then more services will get reinstated, and even if they get reinstated, you need to gain the passengers back that you've lost.
If the 60 returns to every 12 minutes, I would hope for 10 (I know that's never going to happen), and the X20 comes back, and 55 comes back, even once an hour, with the 62 coming back as that was getting decent loading.
Also, the X6 just gets rammed all the time, I know it works with the Peterlee Purples, but it needs a large bus.
The 47 cuts so on a night it only runs to Blackhall Mill, which doesn't help when it comes to connections and passenger experience. Not to mention on match days and any other Newcastle Night with the delays.
A lot of the service changes made in July need to be reverted. Then once things are back to the way they were Pre-Covid which will be a while then GNE needs to work on other links.
One thing I've noticed when I've looked at GNE to Stagecoach, particularly in Sunderland is that I would call Stagecoach more domestic and GNE more long haul. As most of SNE Sunderland routes operate in and around Sunderland connecting communities, and for me, at least the only GNE service which really does that are the 39s and the 35s. When it comes to GNE they no longer link to like Newcastle, Washington, Seaham, Stanley, Chester, Consett etc, but Stagecoach stays and links the local communities.
Look at the A690 for example, the 35/20's and before the X20 & 55 just fly straight up them but Stagecoach goes into those estates, and covers them where GNE don't, as if any of them wants to get into Sunderland they would have to walk for ages to get a GNE bus, but Stagecoach serve closer. It's great having large connections and that's great for marketing, but its no use if your buses, a lot of the time don't really serve the local community as much in Sunderland as SNE, as instead of going to like Durham, they might go to Newcastle or South Shields instead.
GNE needs to solidify the routes they already offer then expand and start to challenge Stagecoach and expand in local areas.
Not to mention to try and challenge Arriva, especially in County Durham, even if it's just a couple month trial for a new service or ask people where they want to go, and where would they like connections to.
Look at the 22/23/24, that would be great for GNE to take over those routes, I know just copying them exactly won't work but offer cheaper fairs and the same connections and advertise it, posters through doors would do a lot of different, talk about the benefits, such as stronger connection etc.
Saying get the 22 to Sunderland then jump straight on the 56 with your Under 25 day ticket, Or get the 24 to Peterlee from Hartlepool to connect with frequent service to Newcastle.
But before any of that could happen GNE needs to sort their shit out with the current routes/cuts and drivers, bring back old routes to improve connections then expand, and cover more ground, increase passenger numbers, yes this might be a while away and some times it might not work but they're never going to improve is all they do is cut services and shrink their passenger base.
RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - BusLoverMum - 11 Oct 2022
The services competing with the 22 /23/24 are precisely the ones that gne have all but eliminated over the past few years. Clearly not enough people had a use for them.
The city vs county divide between stagecoach and other operators stems back to the operators that stagecoach and gne took over from. What would benefit those routes the most is better multi-operator ticket options outside of the nexus area, particularly for those of us who would pay full adult fares.
RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - streetdeckfan - 11 Oct 2022
(11 Oct 2022, 6:40 pm)BusLoverMum wrote The services competing with the 22 /23/24 are precisely the ones that gne have all but eliminated over the past few years. Clearly not enough people had a use for them.
The city vs county divide between stagecoach and other operators stems back to the operators that stagecoach and gne took over from. What would benefit those routes the most is better multi-operator ticket options outside of the nexus area, particularly for those of us who would pay full adult fares.
I really do think having better multi-operator tickets would solve a good proportion of the problems with the public transport.
In particular, if an operator can't be arsed to run a service on an evening or a Sunday *cough* X21 to West Auckland *cough*, then you should be able to use the GNE ticket on another operators service that follows the same route.
RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - nova347 - 11 Oct 2022
(11 Oct 2022, 6:40 pm)BusLoverMum wrote The services competing with the 22 /23/24 are precisely the ones that gne have all but eliminated over the past few years. Clearly not enough people had a use for them.I would love a multi-operator ticket, that's not ridiculously priced, because if all the services in the North East were served under one operator, let's say GNE, I still think a GNE weekly ticket would be £18, and that's why I think we should have publicly owned public transport.
The city vs county divide between stagecoach and other operators stems back to the operators that stagecoach and gne took over from. What would benefit those routes the most is better multi-operator ticket options outside of the nexus area, particularly for those of us who would pay full adult fares.
RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - streetdeckfan - 11 Oct 2022
(11 Oct 2022, 7:13 pm)nova347 wrote I would love a multi-operator ticket, that's not ridiculously priced, because if all the services in the North East were served under one operator, let's say GNE, I still think a GNE weekly ticket would be £18, and that's why I think we should have publicly owned public transport.
But who would run said publicly owned public transport, I certainly wouldn't trust any of the councils, or heaven forbid, Nexus to run it!
I doubt public transport would be that affordable either, and there would be none of the niceties that we've come to expect.
RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - Unber43 - 11 Oct 2022
(11 Oct 2022, 7:02 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I really do think having better multi-operator tickets would solve a good proportion of the problems with the public transport.If you're going to have a multi-operator ticket, whats the point of having 3 different major bus companies.
In particular, if an operator can't be arsed to run a service on an evening teatime or a Sunday *cough* X21 to West Auckland *cough*, then you should be able to use the GNE ticket on another operators service that follows the same route.
Its the same thing I rant about when GCT/JH Coaches win a contract it just puts people off, as if you're going to the Metrocentre, or Newcastle you need to buy another ticket, which is why services in Arriva territory/GNE territory/SC Territory which are contracted should be given to them. It would atleast give them a chance if the operator advertises services
I don't see why GNE/SCNE/Arriva don't use TikTok, they can just create a page and advertise services whether thats for SCNE X24, Arrivas 22/23/24 Connections, GNE X21/20/21/X45 etc
RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - Adrian - 11 Oct 2022
(11 Oct 2022, 7:13 pm)nova347 wrote I would love a multi-operator ticket, that's not ridiculously priced, because if all the services in the North East were served under one operator, let's say GNE, I still think a GNE weekly ticket would be £18, and that's why I think we should have publicly owned public transport.
Whilst I'm an advocate for publicly owned public transport, it doesn't need publicly owned public transport to happen. There's legislation to introduce this in the Buses Act under Enhanced Partnerships (essentially what the BSIP is part of), but like everything else, it needs a willingness to work together to happen and a level of Government funding to make it both attractive and affordable.
I think there's a level of desire there in the North East, but the big question is the one of funding. We only got a tiny fraction of what was required for the North East BSIP, so it'd sharp run out if it was thrown at funding a proper multi-operator integrated ticketing system.
RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - Unber43 - 11 Oct 2022
(11 Oct 2022, 7:31 pm)streetdeckfan wrote But who would run said publicly owned public transport, I certainly wouldn't trust any of the councils, or heaven forbid, Nexus to run it!I know I might get a hit of "hate" for this, but I would want GNE to run it, they have the best service for passengers, yes cancellations aren't great but the fleet presentation is so but better, they also have things such as USB's, Tables, Wireless Charges (however they need to be bigger), Wifi that will attract people who use the car.
I doubt public transport would be that affordable either, and there would be none of the niceties that we've come to expect.
idk it just seems GNE cares more about their fleet than SC/Arriva. Pre-COVID it was large investments every 2 years. And their ticket structure is better than any other and cheaper fares. It was something ridiculous like £1.80 from Sunderland to Peterlee, im pretty sure the 22 is like £3, might be more.
RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - streetdeckfan - 11 Oct 2022
(11 Oct 2022, 7:33 pm)Unber43 wrote If you're going to have a multi-operator ticket, whats the point of having 3 different major bus companies.
Its the same thing I rant about when GCT/JH Coaches win a contract it just puts people off, as if you're going to the Metrocentre, or Newcastle you need to buy another ticket, which is why services in Arriva territory/GNE territory/SC Territory which are contracted should be given to them. It would atleast give them a chance if the operator advertises services
I don't see why GNE/SCNE/Arriva don't use TikTok, they can just create a page and advertise services whether thats for SCNE X24, Arrivas 22/23/24 Connections, GNE X21/20/21/X45 etc
You're right, there is no point in having 3 different major operators. Because they've all colluded to carve out their own monopolies in different areas, which is against the spirit of competition. And when one does decide it wants to compete in an area, a shitshow ensues! I'm honestly surprised Arriva has done nothing about the 21 and X21 extensions yet!
As for TikTok, it's an absolute crock of shite, and the sooner that fad disappears the better!
(11 Oct 2022, 7:36 pm)Adrian wrote Whilst I'm an advocate for publicly owned public transport, it doesn't need publicly owned public transport to happen. There's legislation to introduce this in the Buses Act under Enhanced Partnerships (essentially what the BSIP is part of), but like everything else, it needs a willingness to work together to happen and a level of Government funding to make it both attractive and affordable.
I think there's a level of desire there in the North East, but the big question is the one of funding. We only got a tiny fraction of what was required for the North East BSIP, so it'd sharp run out if it was thrown at funding a proper multi-operator integrated ticketing system.
I'd be open to something like franchising, but quality has to be a major factor in awarding the contracts. If someone like GCT scooped up all the contracts, I'm sure everyone would quit public transport altogether!
RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - Unber43 - 11 Oct 2022
(11 Oct 2022, 7:38 pm)streetdeckfan wrote You're right, there is no point in having 3 different major operators. Because they've all colluded to carve out their own monopolies in different areas, which is against the spirit of competition. And when one does decide it wants to compete in an area, a shitshow ensues! I'm honestly surprised Arriva has done nothing about the 21 and X21 extensions yet!Arriva don't care, i pretty sure thats clear DB wants to get rid of them.
As for TikTok, it's an absolute crock of shite, and the sooner that fad disappears the better!
TikTok, might be crap, however its a great piece for companies advertising.
Also another thing if they were going to work together when im on GNE I have different expectations to SC/Arriva, with GNE i expect USB's/Wifi where it is allocated, most of SC buses don't even have Wifi since the pandemic.
RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - Adtrainsam - 11 Oct 2022
(11 Oct 2022, 7:33 pm)Unber43 wrote If you're going to have a multi-operator ticket, whats the point of having 3 different major bus companies.There's no region-specific advertising on TikTok. Other social media apps like Instagram can use your phone's location to show region-targeted marketing. Partially why you see GNE/Metro ads on TV and Instagram, but not TikTok, as they'd be pointless to be advertising their services to someone who lives outside the North East.
Its the same thing I rant about when GCT/JH Coaches win a contract it just puts people off, as if you're going to the Metrocentre, or Newcastle you need to buy another ticket, which is why services in Arriva territory/GNE territory/SC Territory which are contracted should be given to them. It would atleast give them a chance if the operator advertises services
I don't see why GNE/SCNE/Arriva don't use TikTok, they can just create a page and advertise services whether thats for SCNE X24, Arrivas 22/23/24 Connections, GNE X21/20/21/X45 etc
Arriva, being a more national company have started doing some 'general' TikTok ads ... about how to catch a bus. In Liverpool!
RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - BusLoverMum - 11 Oct 2022
What's the point of 8 major supermarkets and lots of other little ones when they all sell baked beans, bread and milk?
RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - streetdeckfan - 11 Oct 2022
(11 Oct 2022, 10:41 pm)BusLoverMum wrote What's the point of 8 major supermarkets and lots of other little ones when they all sell baked beans, bread and milk?Imagine if the 8 major supermarkets agreed not to open stores in each others territory, so if you lived in Gateshead you had no choice but to shop at Asda, or if you lived in Durham you had to shop at Sainsbury's.
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RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - Rob44 - 12 Oct 2022
(11 Oct 2022, 11:07 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Imagine if the 8 major supermarkets agreed not to open stores in each others territory, so if you lived in Gateshead you had no choice but to shop at Asda, or if you lived in Durham you had to shop at Sainsbury's.
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exactly this.
How many times has a NIS bus drove past your bus stop? Or entered eldon sq or DCC bus station and pulled out NIS. Wouldnt do this if they had competition on the route who would pick up your ££££
RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - Storx - 12 Oct 2022
(11 Oct 2022, 7:38 pm)streetdeckfan wrote You're right, there is no point in having 3 different major operators. Because they've all colluded to carve out their own monopolies in different areas, which is against the spirit of competition. And when one does decide it wants to compete in an area, a shitshow ensues! I'm honestly surprised Arriva has done nothing about the 21 and X21 extensions yet!
Catch 22 is there's not enough money to go around for competition so if you had multiple companies doing one route then other marginal services will suffer which are currently propped up by them.
You just have to look at North Tyneside where there's 15 buses an hour or whatever it is now on the Coast Road. Go off the Coast Road and it's a skeleton service at best. It's the same down in Birtley aswell.
Pricing and lack of interworking tickets is the biggest issue in the North East. Eradicate that issue then who operates the buses is just irrelevant.
RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - streetdeckfan - 12 Oct 2022
(12 Oct 2022, 7:18 am)Rob44 wrote exactly this.
How many times has a NIS bus drove past your bus stop? Or entered eldon sq or DCC bus station and pulled out NIS. Wouldnt do this if they had competition on the route who would pick up your ££££
Funnily enough, GNE seem fairly happy to let passengers from West Auckland and the south end of Bishop get the Arriva 6 with the amount of times they curtail it at Bishop.
And, to be honest I'd have absolutely no problem with that, if I could use my GNE ticket on the Arriva 6. But I can't.
I have to fork out an extra £1.40 to get the 6 or X1 into Bishop to then catch the X21 from there.
Even bringing back the deal they had during COVID would be a good step in the right direction, there's little reason to not allow it if the passenger already has a day or weekly ticket since I probably wouldn't pay for the extra ticket anyway!
RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - Ambassador - 12 Oct 2022
We're essentially talking a North East oyster (which seems beyond the capability of nexus) or franchising to solve it.
The latter seems more likely though with the current economic climate I can't see the govt rushing to hand out too many more subsidies for metro mayor areas
RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - F114TML - 12 Oct 2022
(12 Oct 2022, 10:13 am)Ambassador wrote We're essentially talking a North East oyster (which seems beyond the capability of nexus) or franchising to solve it.Surely all we need for that is tap-on-tap-off facilities on buses that use the POP card? (Can you use the pop card in that fashion on the buses that do have that facility?)
The latter seems more likely though with the current economic climate I can't see the govt rushing to hand out too many more subsidies for metro mayor areas
RE: Reversing the decline in passenger numbers - deanmachine - 12 Oct 2022
(12 Oct 2022, 7:18 am)Rob44 wrote exactly this.
How many times has a NIS bus drove past your bus stop? Or entered eldon sq or DCC bus station and pulled out NIS. Wouldnt do this if they had competition on the route who would pick up your ££££
Aye I'm sure if GNE had more competition they'd start ignoring driver's hours left right and centre. Makes sense.