(02 Feb 2021, 8:20 pm)JP6004 wrote Says Go 2 Middlesbrough for me

(02 Feb 2021, 8:20 pm)JP6004 wrote Says Go 2 Middlesbrough for me

(02 Feb 2021, 4:34 pm)streetdeckfan wrote As per the latest fleet news update currently delivered is (assuming i haven't manage to screw up my copy and pasting)

7150 - OW15 WJZ - re-registered to GO02 MBR (quite possibly the worst private plate I've ever seen)
7152 - OW15 WKB - re-registered to XL09 NCL
7153 - OW15 WKC - re-registered to XL10 NCL
7154 - OW15 WKD - re-registered to X9 XLS
7155 - OW15 WKE - re-registered to X10 LNE
7156 - OW15 WKF - re-registered to X10 XLS


Having done a bit of checking on the DVLA site, GO02 NCL has also been registered so I'd imagine that'll go on 7151

(03 Feb 2021, 11:11 pm)busmanT wrote Seems like a waste of money to me, especially in the middle of a pandemic - I doubt the normal passengers will notice.

(03 Feb 2021, 11:11 pm)busmanT wrote Seems like a waste of money to me, especially in the middle of a pandemic - I doubt the normal passengers will notice.

(04 Feb 2021, 11:04 am)Andreos1 wrote It's those priorities again. 
I think the coaches are a positive step-change in what has been used recently, but like all the repaints, the faffing around with blinds, fluorescent lights on the sides of buses - these plates aren't really that important in the grand scheme of things.
Certainly not, compared to the ensuring the network is fit for purpose and people can get where they need to be. 
It's all fine and well having these things, but if it takes 2 or 3 buses to get to the hospital for appointments or  it's not possible to get home from a shift...
Sorting those things are the priority imo. Not cherished plates.

(04 Feb 2021, 12:39 pm)Dan wrote You have voiced this opinion lots of times recently, and it's rare that others contribute afterwards (I too have resisted comment until now), but couldn't you say much of this about every bus operator in the region?

Over the last few years especially; each of the 'big three' has reduced service levels, covering gaps as best as they can, in order to reduce costs and increase profitability. You have your views on this, and have voiced them in the past many times over the years, but this is the business model of bus companies, and you know that (despite the views and opinions you may have on it). These service reductions do obviously come at the detriment of the customer, and operators' desires to maintain as many links as possible probably adds layers of complexity to the network too. Very little has been done to develop the network and implement real, noticeable improvements. This is unfortunate, I agree.

The current funding arrangements (CBSSG) prevent operators from making significant changes to their networks, which is why services such as the 925 and 938 exist in Go North East's network currently. Go North East has made very minor changes to its network in response to customer feedback and by identifying gaps in the market where there is potential, such as the diversion of services 83/84 via Peel Retail Park, and the extension of the 10B service to Tyneview Retail Park.

Unlike most other operators in the country who have simply stood still during the past 10 months, Go North East has continued to invest and use this as an opportunity to deliver a positive impact in what they are able to control, which is their marketing and promotion of bus services (i.e. everything which, in your view, isn't important). Clearly it would not be ethical to promote bus use right now, when the government guidance is that passengers should only be making essential trips only on public transport, but repainting and refurbishing the fleet, and making real improvements in terms of the quality on-board, means that the company will be in a position to better promote their services as we emerge out of the current pandemic. Clearly we have opposing views here, but in the absence of being able to make a difference with the network right now, I think Go North East's actions over the last ten months are commendable.

I am not suggesting that everything Go North East has done of late will deliver improvements and allow the company to be in better standing to increase patronage post-COVID, such as your examples of the 'faffing around' with destination displays. Clearly that's not related, and the fact such changes have been avoided until the current MD's tenure would suggest who is responsible for it, but in the current climate the alternative would of course be to go down the route that Arriva has, where marketing teams have been centralised, and as we were reminded elsewhere on the forum recently, commercial team headcounts reduced, delivering absolutely no benefits whatsoever to their passengers.

• Those fluorescent lights on the sides of the buses (which, not to be pedantic or owt, are actually LED strips) are actually really useful at lighting up the bus stop at night, many a times I've got off the bus into a massive puddle because I couldn't see!
  
• The tables allow people to work on the bus, I for one always have my laptop out and get work done on the bus, which would be nigh on impossible with the standard seating layout as there's not enough room to open the laptop properly.
  
• USB ports and sockets are actually incredibly useful, I use my phone a lot and with mobile ticketing having a topped up battery can mean the difference between getting home and being stranded
  
• WiFi can be useful, although the 100mb data limit makes it basically useless for me
  

(04 Feb 2021, 2:01 pm)idiot wrote The USBs are useless. That slow at charging. Tend to stick to my power bank.. Unless I'm on Prince Bishops or fab 56s with proper plugs!

(04 Feb 2021, 2:01 pm)idiot wrote The USBs are useless. That slow at charging. Tend to stick to my power bank.. Unless I'm on Prince Bishops or fab 56s with proper plugs!

(04 Feb 2021, 2:22 pm)6049 wrote Depends on if you've got the right cable. My old phone which "fast charging", was full from about 40% in about 3/4 of an hour on one of the new StreetDecks. My new phone with the same lead charged about 10-15% in around 15mins which isn't bad. I can't use the wireless chargers though as my phone case must be too thick to allow it to work at full efficiency.

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

• Extended 1 to Cobalt
  
• Extended 22 to Cobalt
  
• New 22X to Cobalt
  
• New buses 39/40/62/63
  
• Reduced service 18 from Forest Hall
  
• Reduced 1 from Four Lane Ends
  
• All evening and Sunday services ran by Stagecoach
  

• Extended 306 to Whitley
  
• Extended 51A to Holystone
  
• No new buses
  
• No reductions bar a few very late evening services.
  
• All evening and Sunday services ran by Arriva
  

• Repainted some panels and changed seat covers on B9TL's
  
• Retrimmed Quaylinks
  
• Few extra evening 19 services to Cramlington
  
• Reduced 309/310 to every 20 minutes
  
• Reduced 1 to every 20 minutes
  
• Lost links from Gateshead and beyond from Coast Road and Battle Hill (58)
  
• Downgraded the buses on 11/41/42
  
• No new buses that are still here
  
• Butchered the 40/41 in half
  
• Scrapped half of the 42 (tax payers now paying for it).
  
• Most evening and Sunday services paid by the tax payer and not ran by GNE
  

(04 Feb 2021, 2:25 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I've had the opposite issues, the 240v sockets rarely work properly on the StreetDecks/B5s (even the brand new StreetDecks) whereas the USB ports pretty much always work.

They're not the fastest chargers in the world, but they charge my phone from 20-100% on the X21 journey.

The only time I really use the 240v sockets is to charge my laptop (which is against the rules, but yolo), but they can only handle it when the laptop is turned off, apparently the inverter they use isn't powerful enough for a gaming laptop playing at full power (not that I've ever tried or course!)

(04 Feb 2021, 6:11 pm)Storx wrote I'm sorry but the upgrades to WiFi and other stuff doesn't account for the cuts that GNE have done in certain areas and I agree with Andreos1 strongly.

(04 Feb 2021, 6:47 pm)Dan wrote One of your positives for Arriva is that they run their own evening and Sunday services, but a lot of these are either tendered or receive a de-minimis payment, just like Go North East's services. The difference between them is that Arriva retained their contracts, and they weren't awarded to another operator, as we've seen with Go North East. Come on, Storx, be fair.

There's absolutely no denying the improvements Stagecoach have made, but this has arguably come at the detriment of Go North East's services in this area (exactly what you're complaining about). If there aren't enough customers between the two operators, and passengers have given their custom to Stagecoach (despite all the whizzy gadgets and better marketing from Go North East), then ultimately this will result in service reductions due to the abstraction it has caused. North Tyneside is heavily over-bussed as it's incredibly competitive, and there are no where near enough passengers for all three operators to make a profit.

It does in part support Andreos1's argument that operators need to get the basics (predominantly pricing!) right first, before thinking about any whizzy gadgets, but where I disagree with him, is that he seems to have the belief that the two are mutually exclusive. As I mentioned in my previous post, the current limitations of government support for bus services does mean that 'the basics' can't be changed, but in ordinary circumstances, there's no reason why operators can't do both. It just seems that they rarely do (and that goes for all three, not just Go North East).

And whilst Stagecoach have undeniably done great work in North Tyneside, please don't forget about poor old Sunderland, where they have significantly reduced the network...

(04 Feb 2021, 12:39 pm)Dan wrote You have voiced this opinion lots of times recently, and it's rare that others contribute afterwards (I too have resisted comment until now), but couldn't you say much of this about every bus operator in the region?

Over the last few years especially; each of the 'big three' has reduced service levels, covering gaps as best as they can, in order to reduce costs and increase profitability. You have your views on this, and have voiced them in the past many times over the years, but this is the business model of bus companies, and you know that (despite the views and opinions you may have on it). These service reductions do obviously come at the detriment of the customer, and operators' desires to maintain as many links as possible probably adds layers of complexity to the network too. Very little has been done to develop the network and implement real, noticeable improvements. This is unfortunate, I agree.

The current funding arrangements (CBSSG) prevent operators from making significant changes to their networks, which is why services such as the 925 and 938 exist in Go North East's network currently. Go North East has made very minor changes to its network in response to customer feedback and by identifying gaps in the market where there is potential, such as the diversion of services 83/84 via Peel Retail Park, and the extension of the 10B service to Tyneview Retail Park.

Unlike most other operators in the country who have simply stood still during the past 10 months, Go North East has continued to invest and use this as an opportunity to deliver a positive impact in what they are able to control, which is their marketing and promotion of bus services (i.e. everything which, in your view, isn't important). Clearly it would not be ethical to promote bus use right now, when the government guidance is that passengers should only be making essential trips only on public transport, but repainting and refurbishing the fleet, and making real improvements in terms of the quality on-board, means that the company will be in a position to better promote their services as we emerge out of the current pandemic. Clearly we have opposing views here, but in the absence of being able to make a difference with the network right now, I think Go North East's actions over the last ten months are commendable.

I am not suggesting that everything Go North East has done of late will deliver improvements and allow the company to be in better standing to increase patronage post-COVID, such as your examples of the 'faffing around' with destination displays. Clearly that's not related, and the fact such changes have been avoided until the current MD's tenure would suggest who is responsible for it, but in the current climate the alternative would of course be to go down the route that Arriva has, where marketing teams have been centralised, and as we were reminded elsewhere on the forum recently, commercial team headcounts reduced, delivering absolutely no benefits whatsoever to their passengers.

(04 Feb 2021, 6:11 pm)Storx wrote I'm sorry but the upgrades to WiFi and other stuff doesn't account for the cuts that GNE have done in certain areas and I agree with Andreos1 strongly.

Looking at North Tyneside alone in the last 5 years, you can slate Arriva as much as you want but the damage one operator has done to the area outweighs the other 2 considerably. To just to give a quick summary to prove my point.

Stagecoach

• Extended 1 to Cobalt
  
• Extended 22 to Cobalt
  
• New 22X to Cobalt
  
• New buses 39/40/62/63
  
• Reduced service 18 from Forest Hall
  
• Reduced 1 from Four Lane Ends
  
• All evening and Sunday services ran by Stagecoach
  

Arriva

• Extended 306 to Whitley
  
• Extended 51A to Holystone
  
• No new buses
  
• No reductions bar a few very late evening services.
  
• All evening and Sunday services ran by Arriva
  

GoNorthEast

• Repainted some panels and changed seat covers on B9TL's
  
• Retrimmed Quaylinks
  
• Few extra evening 19 services to Cramlington
  
• Reduced 309/310 to every 20 minutes
  
• Reduced 1 to every 20 minutes
  
• Lost links from Gateshead and beyond from Coast Road and Battle Hill (58)
  
• Downgraded the buses on 11/41/42
  
• No new buses that are still here
  
• Butchered the 40/41 in half
  
• Scrapped half of the 42 (tax payers now paying for it).
  
• Most evening and Sunday services paid by the tax payer and not ran by GNE
  

It's all good having a hub and spoke network but when the hubs are dominated by operators who aren't the spokes then it's no wonder the spokes are failing miserable. (Whitley / Shields, Arriva dominate - Wallsend, Stagecoach dominate). It's all good refurbishing and upgrading buses on the same handful of bus routes (20, 21, X21, Consett expresses, X9/X10, 4, 53/54, 56, X1 etc) but for someone who doesn't live on those routes there's no incentive at all to use GNE especially when your bus changes route or timetable every other week with no upgrades at all (Sunderland, North Tyneside and South Shields networks) bar it's now not a 15 year old Omnicity it's now a 10 year old Versa instead (which are much worse).

(04 Feb 2021, 11:22 pm)L469 YVK wrote The 309/310/311 is actually a very clever but simple idea.

Before the changes:
- Total PVR was 25 (309/310/57)
- Passengers along the Coast Rd didn't want Central Newcastle, they wanted St Mary's & Haymarket
- Due to 309 needing to go standalone, this resulted in inefficient driver rostering as a driver (correct me if wrong) couldn't do 5 hours on the 309 (2hr30 round trip) due to time in the pool van needing to be taken into account.

Basically, they've ironed all 3x of the above problems out whilst maintaining an even more frequent service as well as a regular service on individual routes.

If Arriva dropped the 306 & 308 frequency to every 20 mins (10 combined) but made sure all journeys were double deck operated, they'd maintain roughly the same seats per hour on combined sections. And if Blyth to Billy Mill was proving too popular for a 20 min service (unlikely post COVID), introducing a parallel half hourly X38 would make more sense.

As for the Marden part of the 306, Arriva could extend the 51A via Murton Village and at the same time.......gain extra funding by partially replacing the 359.

(04 Feb 2021, 11:03 pm)Ambassador wrote Ah but Andreos a decent service doesn’t get you the much needed approval of transport dinosaur Roger French who seems to be inexplicably adored by those in power in bus companies despite having extremely archaic views. He is however very easily impressed by a paint job and a retweet.

Screenshot_20210205_081655_com.android.chrome.jpg (Size 854.07 KB | Downloads 49)

(04 Feb 2021, 9:53 pm)Andreos1 wrote Some excellent points here which really ram home how operators are working (or were working) prior to the pandemic.

Once people remove the apparent glitz and glamour or take off the rose-tinted specs, things can be pretty poor.

(05 Feb 2021, 11:44 am)ian foster wrote Don't forget the complete mess Arriva made of the North Tyneside and SE Northumberland services back in 2010. Especially when they withdrew the 44 from Hazelrigg to Whitley Bay. If there was any excuse not yo use the bus and use the car then this was it. Every bus that has served Marden since has been useless taking the best part of an hour or more to get to Newcastle. No we don't want Battle Hill or Cobalt or to go via Tynemouth and North Shields first before a slow dawdle up the coast road.

(05 Feb 2021, 12:03 pm)Dan wrote Yes, but that doesn’t suit the agenda here. It seems that Andreos1 would prefer to focus on the negatives of Go North East (nobody is denying the service reductions over the years being negative) and ignore that Arriva and Stagecoach are both guilty of doing the same, just without the same marketing (sorry, titivating) efforts going alongside it.

I made the point about Stagecoach carving up the Sunderland network time and time again yesterday, and that was disregarded too, as it doesn’t suit the agenda.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(04 Feb 2021, 12:39 pm)Dan wrote You have voiced this opinion lots of times recently, and it's rare that others contribute afterwards (I too have resisted comment until now), but couldn't you say much of this about every bus operator in the region?

Over the last few years especially; each of the 'big three' has reduced service levels, covering gaps as best as they can, in order to reduce costs and increase profitability. You have your views on this, and have voiced them in the past many times over the years, but this is the business model of bus companies, and you know that (despite the views and opinions you may have on it). These service reductions do obviously come at the detriment of the customer, and operators' desires to maintain as many links as possible probably adds layers of complexity to the network too. Very little has been done to develop the network and implement real, noticeable improvements. This is unfortunate, I agree.

The current funding arrangements (CBSSG) prevent operators from making significant changes to their networks, which is why services such as the 925 and 938 exist in Go North East's network currently. Go North East has made very minor changes to its network in response to customer feedback and by identifying gaps in the market where there is potential, such as the diversion of services 83/84 via Peel Retail Park, and the extension of the 10B service to Tyneview Retail Park.

Unlike most other operators in the country who have simply stood still during the past 10 months, Go North East has continued to invest and use this as an opportunity to deliver a positive impact in what they are able to control, which is their marketing and promotion of bus services (i.e. everything which, in your view, isn't important). Clearly it would not be ethical to promote bus use right now, when the government guidance is that passengers should only be making essential trips only on public transport, but repainting and refurbishing the fleet, and making real improvements in terms of the quality on-board, means that the company will be in a position to better promote their services as we emerge out of the current pandemic. Clearly we have opposing views here, but in the absence of being able to make a difference with the network right now, I think Go North East's actions over the last ten months are commendable.

I am not suggesting that everything Go North East has done of late will deliver improvements and allow the company to be in better standing to increase patronage post-COVID, such as your examples of the 'faffing around' with destination displays. Clearly that's not related, and the fact such changes have been avoided until the current MD's tenure would suggest who is responsible for it, but in the current climate the alternative would of course be to go down the route that Arriva has, where marketing teams have been centralised, and as we were reminded elsewhere on the forum recently, commercial team headcounts reduced, delivering absolutely no benefits whatsoever to their passengers.

(05 Feb 2021, 1:07 pm)Drifter60 wrote But I think the point being made is what you describe as “not standing still” and “continue to invest” is being done in the wrong places. The main things in the last year are new buses on the X10. The coaches, as Andreos1 and others have said, is an improvement for the service, but these were committed to before the pandemic. So I’m not overly convinced on the investment and improvements within the last ten months? They’ve done the *usual* mid life repaints and internal refurb of the Fab 56 B9s and now the Connections 4 citaros. The Washington solos are the only repaint that wouldn’t be due now, and while the livery (except the name, in my opinion) looks good, I’m not sure we can say the change from ‘indigo’ to ‘little pinks’ is a passenger priority. And I must admit, I’m also of the opinion of these X9/X10 number plates being pointless at best, surely if the number plates what people are looking at, not the branded livery of the coach, I’d get in touch with the designer of the livery!

---

But I think the point being made is what you describe as “not standing still” and “continue to invest” is being done in the wrong places. Or being done in such a minor way just to ‘save face’. The main things in the last year are new buses on the X10. The coaches, as Andreos1 and others have said, is an improvement for the service, but these were committed to before the pandemic. So I’m not overly convinced on the investment and improvements within the last ten months? They’ve done the *usual* mid life repaints and internal refurb of the Fab 56 B9s and now the Connections 4 citaros. The Washington solos are the arguably only repaid that wouldn’t be due now. 
I must admit, I’m also of the opinion of these number plates being pointless at best, surely if the number plates what people are looking at, not the branded livery of the coach, I’d get in touch with the designer of the livery!

(05 Feb 2021, 12:23 pm)Rob44 wrote As a user of the 44 in my younger days abit the Newcastle to hazlerigg section i was under the impression this service was pulled due to low numbers of passengers from whitly to Newcastle and the problems to service had keeping to time. I did shopping for my parents in Newcastle every Saturday morning and each time i get the 1000am or 1030am bus back to the rigg hardly anyone would alight from this service. and that was me getting on a either Newgate street or blacket street which were the fisrt stop in Newcastle to unload.

(05 Feb 2021, 1:25 pm)streetdeckfan wrote The coaches weren't committed to before the pandemic. In fact, if my memory serves me right, the plan wasn't to upgrade the X9/X10 for another year or two (and even then, they'd basically ruled out buying coaches and were looking at the more heavy duty service buses), until the opportunity came up to swap the StreetDecks they already had on order for Oxford's coaches.