(21 Jul 2019, 9:29 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I have to disagree with you there, especially with ENCTS and Network One pass holders, they typically use the service regularly, so I would imagine have experience with both operators. Once you've used both a couple times, you're going to get a preference for one over the other whether you're an enthusiast or not. Let's think of it another way, & I'm going to assume that you're not a supermarket enthusiast, and I'm going to guess that you have a supermarket that you prefer to go to. For example, I have a ALDI & just round the corner, but I'll travel further to go to Sainsbury's because I prefer their food, even if it costs a bit more. For some people it's not about convenience, it's about the quality.

(21 Jul 2019, 9:24 pm)Ryland wrote Seen the x4 service today but on the screeñ it's destination was shown at redcar instead of Middlesbrough any particular reason

(21 Jul 2019, 9:58 pm)Jimmi wrote It's a bit of both really I feel, some will have a certain preference to one service or another be it journey time, cost, comfort and whatever else but some will accept others at points, I often see concession pass holders in places simply jump on whichever bus turns up first, I use the 7 which stops in the same part of Durham Bus Station as the 6 & X21 and I regularly see some just get the first bus leaving towards Bishop Auckland, some but not all and same with the Network One passes in Tyne & Wear, I see some get on the X12 in Birtley towards Newcastle at times when it gets to the bus stop before the 21, everyone's way of doing things is different, for example your point in shopping if I just want something like a chocolate bar I will often go to wherever is the nearest to where I am although sometimes does come down to cost as well.

(20 Jul 2019, 10:04 pm)streetdeckfan wrote </p><p>
</p><p><br></p><p>Even if I didn't have my GNE pass, I would happily pay the extra to not travel Arriva!&nbsp;</p><p>During CTBW I thought I'd&nbsp;pay the £1 and only use Arriva for the day. Fair to say, by the time the time I got to Spennymoor on the 6, I was regretting the decision as the X21 was directly in front, with it's leather seats, tables and sockets. Once I got to Newcastle (via the X12, which was also a mistake), I decided to try the 'new' e400s they have on the X21, and if I'm being honest, Arriva's 'high spec' Sapphire buses are just on par with GNE's standard spec, except with an order of magnitude more rattles!</p><p>On the way back home, I didn't fancy subjecting myself to the X12 again, so took the X21 and relaxed in comfort.</p><p><br></p><p>I don't have any statistics to back up, but I regularly see a lot more passengers get on the X21 over the 6 at Durham, so I think regular passengers do appreciate the nicer buses.</p><p>In fact, my mother (who knows less than nothing about buses) got the GNE X46 to Crook over the Arriva X46 because it "looked nicer". She didn't even know they were ran by two different companies.&nbsp;</p><p><br></p><p>So basically what I'm saying is, in a situation where the average person wants to get the bus, and they're not tied to any particular operator (ENCTS, Network One, one off user etc.), and the buses go to the same place, I'd be willing to bet that the majority would pick a bus the nicer bus. Network One and ENCTS, in particular as they would be more likely to try both operators</p><p>

(21 Jul 2019, 9:24 pm)Ryland wrote Seen the x4 service today but on the screeñ it's destination was shown at redcar instead of Middlesbrough any particular reason

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<p>
</p><p><br></p><p>Probably not enough capacity&nbsp;</p><p>Couldn't the solos transfer to redcar as extra then that can relief 1759 and 4316&nbsp; to be withdrawn</p>

(25 Jul 2019, 10:53 pm)Multi21 wrote Is it just me or has this just become an Arriva bashing? Anyone got anything good to say about Arriva for a change?

Also in answer the question. It's highly likely 1417 will be back in new livery. Estimated time for its return is very soon... Watch this space!

(25 Jul 2019, 10:53 pm)Multi21 wrote Is it just me or has this just become an Arriva bashing? Anyone got anything good to say about Arriva for a change?

Also in answer the question. It's highly likely 1417 will be back in new livery. Estimated time for its return is very soon... Watch this space!

(26 Jul 2019, 5:06 pm)S830OFT wrote If Arriva invested more in areas that have a high proportion of bus user's, it would make their service more attractive, and more sustainable...

Blyth still operate MPDs which have never had a repaint, and still run around Northumberland in the outdated 1998 livery...

Ashington have Solos which are many years behind a repaint, yet Arriva only take 'certain' services into consideration of upgrades.

I hope when Arriva is sold, the new operators take all vehicles, and all services into consideration of a standard approach which ensures each service recives similar investment, although I would exclude this from their premium brands.

(26 Jul 2019, 5:06 pm)S830OFT wrote If Arriva invested more in areas that have a high proportion of bus user's, it would make their service more attractive, and more sustainable...
&nbsp;

(26 Jul 2019, 5:53 pm)RobinHood wrote </p><p>
</p><p><br></p><p>I think you've explained it really there.</p><p><br></p><p>Lack of investment isn't Arrivas fault, it's DB.</p><p>Every since Brexit was a thing, the value of the pound against the Euro has fallen, so their expected profit margin has decreased organically.</p><p><br></p><p>Hence the now lack of investment and sale.</p><p><br></p><p>The sooner Arriva get DB off of their back, the better for everyone - Arriva employees included.</p><p>

(26 Jul 2019, 6:04 pm)streetdeckfan wrote </p><p>
</p><p><br></p><p>But why would Arriva 'waste' money improving services in areas that already have a high proportion of bus users. The lack of competition means that Arriva can get away with not investing anything as passengers have no choice but to use their service</p><p></p><p>

(26 Jul 2019, 8:16 pm)S830OFT wrote </p><p>
</p><p>If that was the case, why did Arriva launch Brand New Buses onto the Sapphire X21/X22, when there is very little competition...</p><p><br></p><p>The likes of the 22/23/24 services are similar to the 56/57/57A, although only the first set of services have been upgraded to a premium standard.</p><p><br></p><p>Let's not forget that the 57A is the key direct service linking&nbsp;Hartlepool with Durham, yet has no features available compared to service 24, which takes longer to reach Durham.</p><p><br></p><p>I think with service investment it is based on a pick &amp; choose basis, as soms services that are in their 'premium brands' don't warrant them.</p><p>

(26 Jul 2019, 6:53 pm)Andreos1 wrote </p><p>
</p><p><br></p><p>Hasn't the investment model been the same prior to DB? United, Tees&nbsp;and Northumbria never really saw huge investment.&nbsp;</p><p><br></p><p>The Oly's in early 80's,&nbsp;Lynxes/Volvo Oly's etc in mid/late 90's and a boat&nbsp;load of cascades either side.&nbsp;</p><p>

(26 Jul 2019, 8:16 pm)S830OFT wrote If that was the case, why did Arriva launch Brand New Buses onto the Sapphire X21/X22, when there is very little competition... The likes of the 22/23/24 services are similar to the 56/57/57A, although only the first set of services have been upgraded to a premium standard. Let's not forget that the 57A is the key direct service linking Hartlepool with Durham, yet has no features available compared to service 24, which takes longer to reach Durham. I think with service investment it is based on a pick & choose basis, as soms services that are in their 'premium brands' don't warrant them.

(26 Jul 2019, 8:26 pm)BusLoverMum wrote Competition. 22/23/24 all have stiff competition from gne on significant stretches of their routes. On short hops and,&nbsp;at least until recently, for season tickets,&nbsp;they compete in price hut they also need to compete in comfort and features. 56/57/57a don't really have any competition & save the SB 58, which is hardly a luxury service and seem to carry a high proportion of bus pass users.

(26 Jul 2019, 8:47 pm)L469 YVK wrote </p><p>
</p><p><br></p><p>Trying to think of NMS' key orders:</p><p>- 1986/87 Leyland Olympians</p><p>- 1989 Optare Deltas</p><p>- 1994 Volvo Olympian Palatine II (Cummins L10)</p><p>- 1995/96 Scania N113 East Lancs Cityzens</p><p>- 1995/96 Scania L113 East Lancs Europeans</p><p>- 1996/97 Scania L113 East Lancs Europeans</p><p>- 1996/97 Volvo Olympian Palatine II (Volvo D10)</p><p>- 1997/98&nbsp;DAF SB3000 Plaxton Prima</p><p>

(26 Jul 2019, 9:14 pm)Jimmi wrote BusLoverMum summed it up but I feel there is more to add...

Obviously the services chosen to be upgraded are done on a pick and choose basis, you would pick a service that has a potential to benefit from an upgrade, many of the services under Sapphire brand run in urban areas that has the likelihood of gaining passengers from and sure enough numbers shot right up on many of these services after being upgraded.

The Durham to Hartlepool thing, the number seemingly making this full journey ain't a massive amount (really, I have to say this again! [emoji57]) and with the 22/23/24 &amp; 56/57/57A it's a fair lot of passing from a village to a town/city centre or another village for shopping and whatever else like people in Wheatley Hill going to Durham, Peterlee or Sunderland.

The 22/23/24 run later in some form than the 56/57/57A do with the 57/57A winding down between 6 &amp; 7pm wheras the 22 &amp; 24 run later, granted the 56 runs into the night now (in place of X12) but it is allocated buses off other services due to interworking patterns so what would the point be in insisting in 'premium buses' on a service that only runs like 07:00 - 19:00 Monday to Saturday over a service that runs most of the day, would only make sense if these buses were allocated elsewhere in the evenings.

With all this in mind, I say all the services under the 'premium brands' are far more worthy of this treatment than the likes of the 57A which only really does anything between Durham and Bowburn, most times I see the 57A on the Trimdon Village to Hartlepool stretch the numbers are in single figures and doesn't operate in the evenings and Sundays. The only thing I can potentially see upgrading the stock on 56/57/57A is the fact GNE opted to pull out of Coundon which likely saw a slight rise in numbers from Coundon on the 56 but then again there's virtually no competition on the 56/57/57A routes now so that's less for Arriva to worry about.

(26 Jul 2019, 10:18 pm)streetdeckfan wrote At risk of 'Arriva bashing' again, I feel like the Sapphire brand is a joke at this point. What is supposed to 'make my journey sparkle'? Because as far as I can tell, all they've done is stick a few stickers up that say 'Sapphire'. It's the same old buses that they run on any other route. And what is the difference between a MAX and Sapphire service other than the name? Not to be a GNE evangelist, but as I said previously, their 'standard' spec is equal to or higher than Arriva's Sapphire, even on the X21/X22. As much as I see people complain about them, I think the tables were a great idea, I'm always using them to work on the bus, plus it gives me a seat with legroom! I'm not surprised GNE dropped Coundon, I only ever saw a couple people stay on the 18. And if I'm being totally honest, I'm very surprised they actually extended the X21 to Tindale, people I speak to at the stop let the X21 go by and get the 6 as they say the X21 takes too long because of the route it takes through Woodhouse

(26 Jul 2019, 10:53 pm)V514DFT wrote Werent metroriders in production from 1993-1997

(26 Jul 2019, 10:07 pm)Storx wrote </p><p><br></p><p>I might be wrong here but if I'm right the first Arriva bus bought for their respective depot at Ashington would be the Centros in 2007 and Redcar the Temsa / Pulsars in 2009 not sure what they got first.</p><p><br></p><p>It's no where near that bad currently and you have to give credit to DB for sorting out the complete mess they got when they inheritied it regardless to how little they're putting in now.<br></p><p>

(26 Jul 2019, 11:22 pm)Jimmi wrote When Sapphire was launched it seemed to be more of a big deal as Arriva North East hadn't really had any buses with WiFi, e-leather seats or charging ports of any form prior to the introduction of Sapphire on service 7 back in late 2013 (only X66 coaches and Durham Park &amp; Rides had WiFi pre Sapphire IIRC), over time more routes went Sapphire and then MAX came along with Sapphire still being the 'premium' offering for a while but later the MAX spec basically became the same minus the next stop announcements although Darlington MAX buses gained NSAs due to council requests or something. Now Sapphire and standard is more or less the same spec apart from being a different colour inside and out and no NSAs although Temsas haven't gained WiFi or USBs in their recent refurbs. I would say at this stage Sapphire, MAX &amp; Frequenta is just a brand in the same sense as 'Angel' or 'Castles Express' is to GNE to some extents although personally I feel it is somewhat better to have a pretty standard spec for all routes and brands like GNE are doing.&nbsp;

(26 Jul 2019, 11:41 pm)Multi21 wrote </p><p>
</p><p><br></p><p>Anyone else screaming 4646 - 4659 2005 stock? 4660 - 4664 07 Plates</p><p>7501 - 7516? 57 plates</p><p>Lowlanders 57 plates..&nbsp;</p><p>Solos 08s..</p><p>Darts 05s</p><p>

(26 Jul 2019, 10:07 pm)Storx wrote </p><p>
</p><p><br></p><p>Metroriders aswell, not sure on the date on them.</p><p><br></p><p>The pre DB Arriva wasn't particually the best neither but some people seem to forget&nbsp;the investment between 2001 and 2007 apart from Operation Overdrive was just as bad imo. In fact unless I missed some buses, Arriva Northumbria between 2001 and 2006 got the 3 commanders, and a few darts and that's the lot other than some rather questionable cascades such as the ex London Olympians on the 308, the Europeans branding for the Ashington Express buses when they were well past it, Metro Riders over 10 year old running flagship services often etc.</p><p><br></p><p>I might be wrong here but if I'm right the first Arriva bus bought for their respective depot at Ashington would be the Centros in 2007 and Redcar the Temsa / Pulsars in 2009 not sure what they got first.</p><p><br></p><p>It's no where near that bad currently and you have to give credit to DB for sorting out the complete mess they got when they inheritied it regardless to how little they're putting in now.<br></p><p>

(27 Jul 2019, 10:46 am)Storx wrote <p>
</p><p><br></p><p>I know I mentioned them (Operation Overdrive)? I was talking specifically about the two depots Redcar and Ashington and the first bus which theygot after they were rebranded under Arriva. Overdrive was Durham / Darlington. Stockton had the cadets, Jesmond the Volvo's and Tridents then Blyth the Commanders and few darts.<br></p>

(26 Jul 2019, 8:07 pm)Citaro5338 wrote Does anyone know why 1801 is off as every 57/57A board that should be 1801 is a Solo. Haven't seen it for 2 weeks at least.