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GNE Fleet Procurement - Printable Version

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RE: GNE Fleet Procurement - L469 YVK - 04 Aug 2020

(04 Aug 2020, 3:55 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Not sure of the real world figures, and I doubt GNE are likely to give them out, but from what I've read B9s seem to average around the 5mpg mark, whereas the StreetDecks are are closer to 8-9mpg
That is some saving if used in the right (no pun intended) conditions.


RE: GNE Fleet Procurement - streetdeckfan - 04 Aug 2020

(04 Aug 2020, 4:10 pm)L469 YVK wrote That is some saving if used in the right (no pun intended) conditions.
It all depends on the route, but I'd imagine in most scenarios the StreetDeck will be an awful lot cheaper to run.

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RE: GNE Fleet Procurement - Storx - 04 Aug 2020

There's always a massive debate about how Volvo pretty much messed up with the B5TL but is the B9TL all that people make it out to be aswell. For longer distance stuff it's ideal but in comparison to the B7TL they're not half as popular and it's no wonder as in reality places like London where most sales come from as the extra 2 litres really aren't needed. It's no wonder why in reality Volvo went for the B5TL but it just feels like they switched it from too powerful to too weak.

They should really make a 2 axis B8L (7.7L engine) for longer distance stuff could imagine it being quite popular.

They'd have one up on the Enviro and Streetdeck which are both 5/6 litres aswell and aren't ideal for longer stuff either.


RE: GNE Fleet Procurement - streetdeckfan - 04 Aug 2020

(04 Aug 2020, 7:04 pm)Storx wrote There's always a massive debate about how Volvo pretty much messed up with the B5TL but is the B9TL all that people make it out to be aswell. For longer distance stuff it's ideal but in comparison to the B7TL they're not half as popular and it's no wonder as in reality places like London where most sales come from as the extra 2 litres really aren't needed. It's no wonder why in reality Volvo went for the B5TL but it just feels like they switched it from too powerful to too weak.

They should really make a 2 axis B8L (7.7L engine) for longer distance stuff could imagine it being quite popular.

They'd have one up on the Enviro and Streetdeck which are both 5/6 litres aswell and aren't ideal for longer stuff either.

I disagree that the B5 is too weak, perhaps for what GNE needed for the X9/X10, but in general it's plenty powerful.

The issue is that they don't have a more powerful variant like the B8, but that's not a fault of the B5

Same with the StreetDeck, the issue isn't a lack of power, it's just not geared for higher speeds. At least they offer a 6 cylinder variant now

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RE: GNE Fleet Procurement - PH - BQA - 04 Aug 2020

(04 Aug 2020, 7:04 pm)Storx wrote There's always a massive debate about how Volvo pretty much messed up with the B5TL but is the B9TL all that people make it out to be aswell. For longer distance stuff it's ideal but in comparison to the B7TL they're not half as popular and it's no wonder as in reality places like London where most sales come from as the extra 2 litres really aren't needed. It's no wonder why in reality Volvo went for the B5TL but it just feels like they switched it from too powerful to too weak.

They should really make a 2 axis B8L (7.7L engine) for longer distance stuff could imagine it being quite popular.

They'd have one up on the Enviro and Streetdeck which are both 5/6 litres aswell and aren't ideal for longer stuff either.

The E400 is 6.7L I believe - which has been shown to be ample for the majority of work operators require a decker for, the only real exceptions up here would likely be the X9/X10 and X93. 

To be honest I think the B7TL was pretty much the sweet spot. Not too small an engine to stress it out constantly on routes such as the GNE X21 or ANEs plethora of express work, but not that big that it's overkill for a route that just runs about at a max of 30mph all day.

I don't think it's any real surprise that we're still seeing B7TLs used on some demanding routes right across the country. I wonder if Volvo came out with something similar now, given that many operators are seeing first hand how durable the B7 is in terms of sheer lifespan, how it would fare sales wise. I think they'd immediately get orders from Lothian and likely Transdev, but I wouldn't be surprised to see First and Arriva go in on it.


RE: GNE Fleet Procurement - Storx - 04 Aug 2020

(04 Aug 2020, 7:37 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I disagree that the B5 is too weak, perhaps for what GNE needed for the X9/X10, but in general it's plenty powerful.

The issue is that they don't have a more powerful variant like the B8, but that's not a fault of the B5

Same with the StreetDeck, the issue isn't a lack of power, it's just not geared for higher speeds. At least they offer a 6 cylinder variant now

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The problem is it is too weak though, it's in no-where land. People who want a powerful bus will go for for something more powerful as it's not good enough, the fact Transdev have changed has pretty much proved this.

Those who want a cheap bus will go for a Streetdeck or Enviro as they're cheaper.

Then those who want a Volvo bus and the B5TL is powerful enough  will go for the B5LH as it's better for the environment and more eco friendly. The sales for the B5TL has pretty much proved this as there's no-one who really use it.

[Image: table2.png]
https://volvobusesenvironmentblog.wordpress.com/2015/04/13/celebrating-800-hybrids-in-uk/

Also if that's true the improvement for the B5TL over the B9TL isn't particually great. Whatever way you look at the B5TL is doing horrendously sales wise in comparison to the B7TL/B9TL and you just have to look at GNE who bought one batch and then went straight back to the Streetdeck for the Angel / X21.

(04 Aug 2020, 8:18 pm)mb134 wrote The E400 is 6.7L I believe - which has been shown to be ample for the majority of work operators require a decker for, the only real exceptions up here would likely be the X9/X10 and X93. 

To be honest I think the B7TL was pretty much the sweet spot. Not too small an engine to stress it out constantly on routes such as the GNE X21 or ANEs plethora of express work, but not that big that it's overkill for a route that just runs about at a max of 30mph all day.

I don't think it's any real surprise that we're still seeing B7TLs used on some demanding routes right across the country. I wonder if Volvo came out with something similar now, given that many operators are seeing first hand how durable the B7 is in terms of sheer lifespan, how it would fare sales wise. I think they'd immediately get orders from Lothian and likely Transdev, but I wouldn't be surprised to see First and Arriva go in on it.

Ah yeah it is 6.7L, I always thought it was the engine around 5.9L which I believe Arriva's Gemini's have.

Yeah I have totally agree on the B7TL though, perfect bus and the fact they pretty much dominated in London but then we're being rattled between Leeds and York and Middlesbrough and Newcastle at the same time and still are on the Cityzap.

Personally I don't get why they don't ditch the B5TL and push the B5LH and make a 2 axis B8L which is (7.7 litre). Could imagine the likes of Transdev and even GNE would take them in seconds if they weren't overpriced since they've (particually Transdev) been loyal to Volvo for years.


RE: GNE Fleet Procurement - L469 YVK - 04 Aug 2020

The Cummins 6.7 ISB unit (250bhp) has been good though over recent years.

And I believe the examples used on the X93 were shot after Blyth got their hands on them first whereas Ashington's original batch were fine bar 7510.

If anything, the E400 & E400MMC has become more "heavy duty" over recent years in comparison to the B5TL & StreetDeck.


RE: GNE Fleet Procurement - deanmachine - 04 Aug 2020

Is the E400 really that good though? Every time I'm on an X34 they really don't feel as quick as Volvo deckers, although granted, I drive the Volvos, and I've only ever been a passenger on E400s. However they do feel like they really struggle on the A184, which I've never experienced in any bus I've driven myself.


RE: GNE Fleet Procurement - L469 YVK - 04 Aug 2020

(04 Aug 2020, 10:21 pm)deanmachine wrote Is the E400 really that good though? Every time I'm on an X34 they really don't feel as quick as Volvo deckers, although granted, I drive the Volvos, and I've only ever been a passenger on E400s. However they do feel like they really struggle on the A184, which I've never experienced in any bus I've driven myself.
They're 10 year old and have Voith gearboxes fitted rather than ZF which is the preferred gearbox for endurance, high speed and distance work.

Arriva's classic E400s at Ashington fly down Fisher Lane & A1 on the X14/X15/X18/X21/X22


RE: GNE Fleet Procurement - streetdeckfan - 05 Aug 2020

(04 Aug 2020, 9:16 pm)Storx wrote The problem is it is too weak though, it's in no-where land. People who want a powerful bus will go for for something more powerful as it's not good enough, the fact Transdev have changed has pretty much proved this.

Those who want a cheap bus will go for a Streetdeck or Enviro as they're cheaper.

Then those who want a Volvo bus and the B5TL is powerful enough  will go for the B5LH as it's better for the environment and more eco friendly. The sales for the B5TL has pretty much proved this as there's no-one who really use it.

[Image: table2.png]
https://volvobusesenvironmentblog.wordpress.com/2015/04/13/celebrating-800-hybrids-in-uk/

Also if that's true the improvement for the B5TL over the B9TL isn't particually great. Whatever way you look at the B5TL is doing horrendously sales wise in comparison to the B7TL/B9TL and you just have to look at GNE who bought one batch and then went straight back to the Streetdeck for the Angel / X21.

Isn't the B5H considerably more expensive than even the standard B5 though? Depending on the route the increased price may not be recoverable in the fuel savings. Plus, going from that it looks as thought the StreetDecks and B5LH are pretty much on par in terms of fuel economy!

Hypothetically, if a bus does 200 miles a day, which seems about average for some of GNE's routes. At a fuel price of £1.20 it'd cost about £215 per day with a B9, £185 with a B5, and £135 with a B5H. If we extrapolate that over a year, in fuel alone they'd be looking at around £75k for the B9, £65K for the B5, and just under £50k for the B5H.
Now, going from the lifespan of the Hybrid system on the Coaster Hybrids, they're looking at removing it after 7 years.
So after 7 years, the fuel savings of going with a B5 over a B9 would only be around £70k, but going with the hybrid over the B9 would be the best part of £200k (not far from the price of a new StreetDeck!)

Obviously these figures are probably not realistic in the slightest, but with the StreetDecks supposedly getting the same economy as the Hybrids, you can see why they went with the StreetDecks over the B5s for the Angel! But, like you say, if you want a B5, it totally makes sense to go for the Hybrid instead!