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+--- Thread: Leamside Line (/showthread.php?tid=726)
RE: Leamside Line - busmanT - 29 Oct 2021
(29 Oct 2021, 9:05 am)Adrian wrote As predicted, another knock back for the project to reopen the Leamside line: https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19680057.governments-rejects-study-reopening-leamside-line/, with the Government stating: "good potential in terms of transport and socio-economic benefits, the overall cost of the re-instatement (circa £600m) remains prohibitive”The restoring your railway fund only has £500m to fund all the reopenings, so it’s no surprise that the £600m bid for Leamside has been rejected. Don’t forget that the north east has got funding for the Northumberland line so we’ve not been totally forgotten.
As usual, there remains plenty of money when it comes to roads, with the A66 project for example being given £1 billion.
RE: Leamside Line - 54APhotography - 30 Oct 2021
(29 Oct 2021, 10:52 pm)busmanT wrote The restoring your railway fund only has £500m to fund all the reopenings, so it’s no surprise that the £600m bid for Leamside has been rejected. Don’t forget that the north east has got funding for the Northumberland line so we’ve not been totally forgotten.Typical of regime smoke and mirrors, whilst the Leamside line may have been included in that elimination process, it has been side swiped as it has been the table from 2018 with the DfT plans for increased capacity for the ECML.
Very convenient for Shapps to drop it into a mix where it would suffer instant elimination due to the length and costs of electrification, which was the Network Rail plan submitted in 2018.
It also nails shut the bid for Ferryhill to have a station, that was only remotely possible if the Leamside had a service from Newcastle.
As for the Ashington line, that has been batted about since 1992, and no matter how the regime spins it, the money for that isn't new money at all.,
RE: Leamside Line - Adrian - 31 Oct 2021
(29 Oct 2021, 10:52 pm)busmanT wrote The restoring your railway fund only has £500m to fund all the reopenings, so it’s no surprise that the £600m bid for Leamside has been rejected. Don’t forget that the north east has got funding for the Northumberland line so we’ve not been totally forgotten.
I guess in reality, it's no more ambitious than NECA bidding for more of a quarter of the pot of money available for BSIPs. Hopefully there's a plan B for that one though, whereas even the partial reopening of the Leamside seems to have been ruled out of this one.
This is the problem when the Government's 'levelling up' agenda is that everything needs to go through a competitive bidding process, rather than having deliverables being based on socio-economic benefit and need. It's an awful process, a one that forces regions to in-fight amongst themselves about which communities have the greatest need. Unless it changes, I'd suggest we have little hope of the North East getting the significant infrastructure investment it needs (apart from more tarmac)
RE: Leamside Line - 54APhotography - 31 Oct 2021
The reality nobody will accept is that the Leamside was on the table long before this pointless fund was devised. Side swiped deliberately meaning no more capacity on the ecml therefore adding to their desire to end HS2 at Manchester. Without the line this region is finished, no net zero, no serious investment. Buses are not the answer to this region's problems, rail is. This is typical of voting Tory, and this region will pay a heavy price for that.
RE: Leamside Line - Adrian - 31 Oct 2021
(31 Oct 2021, 7:16 pm)54APhotography wrote The reality nobody will accept is that the Leamside was on the table long before this pointless fund was devised. Side swiped deliberately meaning no more capacity on the ecml therefore adding to their desire to end HS2 at Manchester. Without the line this region is finished, no net zero, no serious investment. Buses are not the answer to this region's problems, rail is. This is typical of voting Tory, and this region will pay a heavy price for that.
I lived in Washington for most of my life, so know how long it has been campaigned for, and also the disappointment when the successive Governments have failed to act.
The line would provide so many benefits; not just to the ECML capacity, but also to be able to create the Wearside loop of the Metro and even allow Nissan to transport by Rail freight rather than diesel HGVs. Follingsby is also an expanding business park at last, and the amount of jobs Amazon has created there would be an ideal opportunity for a Metro station. It's literally in the perfect place.
RE: Leamside Line - 54APhotography - 01 Nov 2021
(31 Oct 2021, 7:25 pm)Adrian wrote I lived in Washington for most of my life, so know how long it has been campaigned for, and also the disappointment when the successive Governments have failed to act.Agree entirely and the Amazon subject was laid in front of the DfT when planning was being considered, the response was it would form part of a new transport network to inject prosperity.. Grant Shapps said that... Network Rail had twice submitted plans, one electrified, one not. In fact Shapps himself last year said it was crucial for future HS2 trains running to Newcastle, hinting Trans Pennine could run via Washington as a method of increasing overall capacity. Then this fund was dreamt up. Six projects already close to signing off were thrown into it including Leamside. It stood no chance in bare financial terms.
The line would provide so many benefits; not just to the ECML capacity, but also to be able to create the Wearside loop of the Metro and even allow Nissan to transport by Rail freight rather than diesel HGVs. Follingsby is also an expanding business park at last, and the amount of jobs Amazon has created there would be an ideal opportunity for a Metro station. It's literally in the perfect place.
It is far more than just another old railway line, without it we cant expect any improvement of train services, cant have any future HS2 trains (if that is even likely now), and the meagre investment won't grow because our transport links can't cope..
RE: Leamside Line - busmanT - 01 Nov 2021
(01 Nov 2021, 8:24 am)54APhotography wrote Agree entirely and the Amazon subject was laid in front of the DfT when planning was being considered, the response was it would form part of a new transport network to inject prosperity.. Grant Shapps said that... Network Rail had twice submitted plans, one electrified, one not. In fact Shapps himself last year said it was crucial for future HS2 trains running to Newcastle, hinting Trans Pennine could run via Washington as a method of increasing overall capacity. Then this fund was dreamt up. Six projects already close to signing off were thrown into it including Leamside. It stood no chance in bare financial terms.Might the Leamside line feature in the forthcoming Integrated Rail Plan?
It is far more than just another old railway line, without it we cant expect any improvement of train services, cant have any future HS2 trains (if that is even likely now), and the meagre investment won't grow because our transport links can't cope..
RE: Leamside Line - 54APhotography - 01 Nov 2021
I don't think the money will come from this regime. The times I banged on about this when European development money could have been partly available, just infuriates me why people of this region gave an ounce of trust to the successive régimes since 2010 that have strangled every ounce of investment out of this region.
RE: Leamside Line - V514DFT - 01 Nov 2021
Especially with all this Cop-26 and saving the planet b****ks,you'd think re-opening lines and getting less vehicles on the road would be a welcomed plan
RE: Leamside Line - Andreos1 - 01 Nov 2021
(01 Nov 2021, 7:03 pm)54APhotography wrote I don't think the money will come from this regime. The times I banged on about this when European development money could have been partly available, just infuriates me why people of this region gave an ounce of trust to the successive régimes since 2010 that have strangled every ounce of investment out of this region.
Not a tory or fan of them by any stretch of the imagination. But would the scheme be eligible for ERDF money?
Bearing in mind when the line was closed and the membership for the 25 years or so that followed.
RE: Leamside Line - 54APhotography - 01 Nov 2021
The funds could have been made available through the regional development fund under that auspices of ONE and South Tyneside Council. Railtrack did the work, the development money would have helped stations which would have safeguarded the line. As it was the work done to reopen the line was wasted, the signalling cable was stolen and track was lifted. The reports of the Leamside being closed since the 1960s are absolute rubbish, the line was still in use into the 90s and it was the embankment fire north of Tursdale which closed the line, today the entire embankment would have to be removed and replaced.
RE: Leamside Line - Andreos1 - 02 Nov 2021
(01 Nov 2021, 9:36 pm)54APhotography wrote The funds could have been made available through the regional development fund under that auspices of ONE and South Tyneside Council. Railtrack did the work, the development money would have helped stations which would have safeguarded the line. As it was the work done to reopen the line was wasted, the signalling cable was stolen and track was lifted. The reports of the Leamside being closed since the 1960s are absolute rubbish, the line was still in use in tbe80a and it was the embankment fire north of Tursdale which closed the line.
The fact is, they weren't. Whether that was because the scheme didn't meet the ERDF criteria at the timr or for another reason, I'm not sure we will ever know.
You are right, it didn't close in the 60's. That was when regular passenger services ended.
The ECML diversions stopped in the late 80s if I remember right and I'm sure there were still freight runs until the early 90s.
Having lived close to the line at various stages of the line for quite a few years from the early 90s onwards, it was clear that although officially mothballed - that once the cable and trackbed was stolen and crossings tarmaced over, it was going to take a lot to re-open it.
It was used as a shortcut, it was used by people to hang-out and socialise, it was used by thieves and vandals too. There was no adequate fencing and I'm pretty sure there's been no heavy maintenance carried out on the bridges or the viaduct either.
I am definitely in the pro-Leamside Line camp. I think the benefits of getting it going again are potentially huge.
Given the issues and delays in getting passenger trains on to the B&T line (where infrastructure is largely intact) and there was a concerted campaign by not only politicians and locals - I do wonder if the Leamside will ever will re-open.
RE: Leamside Line - Ds1197 - 02 Nov 2021
Victoria viaduct looked like it was in disrepair the last time I seen it which I think its grade listed and don't network rail still own the track bed of the leamside line
RE: Leamside Line - 54APhotography - 02 Nov 2021
(02 Nov 2021, 8:47 am)Andreos1 wrote The fact is, they weren't. Whether that was because the scheme didn't meet the ERDF criteria at the timr or for another reason, I'm not sure we will ever know.The primary problem in the funding for what would have been Metro expansion to Washington, was dogged with infighting and Gateshead council, which throughout the period of investment were a problem and still are today. look at the difference in redevelopment away from the riverside..
You are right, it didn't close in the 60's. That was when regular passenger services ended.
The ECML diversions stopped in the late 80s if I remember right and I'm sure there were still freight runs until the early 90s.
Having lived close to the line at various stages of the line for quite a few years from the early 90s onwards, it was clear that although officially mothballed - that once the cable and trackbed was stolen and crossings tarmaced over, it was going to take a lot to re-open it.
It was used as a shortcut, it was used by people to hang-out and socialise, it was used by thieves and vandals too. There was no adequate fencing and I'm pretty sure there's been no heavy maintenance carried out on the bridges or the viaduct either.
I am definitely in the pro-Leamside Line camp. I think the benefits of getting it going again are potentially huge.
Given the issues and delays in getting passenger trains on to the B&T line (where infrastructure is largely intact) and there was a concerted campaign by not only politicians and locals - I do wonder if the Leamside will ever will re-open.
The line itself was abandoned in 1992, the embankment fire went on for years and the repairs were extensive, Railfreight weren't interested, it was InterCity that the costs were allocated to due to the need for a diversion route during upgrades to the main line, The last diversions of HST and a couple of 91 drags were in late 1991.
Network Rail removed the track after a wholesale period of theft, first cables ,then sections of rail and other equipment. The line was then prepared for relaying using steel sleepers which NR claimed were ideal for this route, having failed miserably on the S&C.
For reasons only the DfT and Network Rail know that didn't happen, then then reasoning was increased capacity for Eurostar trains running to Edinburgh. That was cloud cuckoo land from the outset. HS2 trains were the primary reason for increased capacity when submitted in 2018, as now it seems Leeds will certainly not get HS2, or even a new route to Manchester, that is now academic.
The Metro debacle continued throughout the investment period and the route chosen is as is, not the much wanted route via Wardley, Usworth and Washington with a deviation at FenceHouses to join the Pallion line to get to Sunderland.
I hope in the future a change comes with government and this network can grow, the Leamside is key, the old line via Brasside to Newton Hall is largely intact and the span of the river wear remains in good order, so Durham via conurbations is definitely on. I think most people accept that north east Durham is extremely poorly served by public transport, much information on this has been handed to Kevan Jones and Mary Kelly Foy and they both support the 'branch' and mainline revival.
RE: Leamside Line - Adrian - 02 Nov 2021
(02 Nov 2021, 9:00 am)Ds1197 wrote Victoria viaduct looked like it was in disrepair the last time I seen it which I think its grade listed and don't network rail still own the track bed of the leamside line
Yeah, they own all the track bed and infrastructure still. Although most of the track was removed during 2012, supposedly to deter theft (despite being a decade after 2 miles of it was nicked in Penshaw during 2003) and because it was deemed life-expired by Network Rail.
There was an FOI response here (dated 2017) that stated the Viaduct is in a fair state of repair: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/grade_ii_listed_victoria_viaduct
I've been up there last year when out walking, and although you cannot get onto the Viaduct itself anymore, it doesn't look in too bad a condition apart from I wouldn't trust holding the railings, as they are definitely in need of repair. There's also proper walking routes below and it doesn't look in bad condition from under either. I'm no structural engineer though!
There's fencing with a gate at each side (as below) now, so you can't use it to walk between Washington and Penshaw. When the gates originally went up, the locks kept getting cut off to reopen it as a through route, but I believe the gate at the Penshaw side has now been welded shut by Network Rail. I'd say it seems to have worked as a deterrent to some degree, as the Washington side is really overgrown now.
![[Image: 98453712-2950698421712108-4281949362781403748-n.jpg]](https://i.ibb.co/TTFBQQj/98453712-2950698421712108-4281949362781403748-n.jpg)
RE: Leamside Line - Adrian - 02 Nov 2021
(02 Nov 2021, 8:47 am)Andreos1 wrote The fact is, they weren't. Whether that was because the scheme didn't meet the ERDF criteria at the timr or for another reason, I'm not sure we will ever know.
You are right, it didn't close in the 60's. That was when regular passenger services ended.
The ECML diversions stopped in the late 80s if I remember right and I'm sure there were still freight runs until the early 90s.
Having lived close to the line at various stages of the line for quite a few years from the early 90s onwards, it was clear that although officially mothballed - that once the cable and trackbed was stolen and crossings tarmaced over, it was going to take a lot to re-open it.
It was used as a shortcut, it was used by people to hang-out and socialise, it was used by thieves and vandals too. There was no adequate fencing and I'm pretty sure there's been no heavy maintenance carried out on the bridges or the viaduct either.
I am definitely in the pro-Leamside Line camp. I think the benefits of getting it going again are potentially huge.
Given the issues and delays in getting passenger trains on to the B&T line (where infrastructure is largely intact) and there was a concerted campaign by not only politicians and locals - I do wonder if the Leamside will ever will re-open.
The last train was 1991 from what I can see, although I think that was a charter/rail tour, rather than a freight train. That date will tie in with when the Freightliner terminal at Follingsby closed.
A lot of the lineside cabinets and such remained for a good few years after the line was mothballed. I remember seeing the damaged and empty cabinets still there around 1994/95, along with signs of digging where they'd been trying to nick cabling between. I recall the Usworth signal box and track over the level crossing road remained for a good few years too, although severely damaged over the years before being demolished.
RE: Leamside Line - 54APhotography - 02 Nov 2021
(02 Nov 2021, 10:23 am)Adrian wrote Yeah, they own all the track bed and infrastructure still. Although most of the track was removed during 2012, supposedly to deter theft (despite being a decade after 2 miles of it was nicked in Penshaw during 2003) and because it was deemed life-expired by Network Rail.Much of the route needs considerable vegetation removal, having cycled all of the routes that interject with the line it is not surprising given the 30 years of uncontrolled growth, the bridge at Leamside on station road itself is shrouded in trees.
There was an FOI response here (dated 2017) that stated the Viaduct is in a fair state of repair: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/grade_ii_listed_victoria_viaduct
I've been up there last year when out walking, and although you cannot get onto the Viaduct itself anymore, it doesn't look in too bad a condition apart from I wouldn't trust holding the railings, as they are definitely in need of repair. There's also proper walking routes below and it doesn't look in bad condition from under either. I'm no structural engineer though!
There's fencing with a gate at each side (as below) now, so you can't use it to walk between Washington and Penshaw. When the gates originally went up, the locks kept getting cut off to reopen it as a through route, but I believe the gate at the Penshaw side has now been welded shut by Network Rail. I'd say it seems to have worked as a deterrent to some degree, as the Washington side is really overgrown now.
It's a lot of work, and has to be done if the region is to keep a toe in.
RE: Leamside Line - Andreos1 - 22 Dec 2021
https://lm.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sunderlandecho.com%2Fnews%2Ftransport%2Fleamside-line-reopening-plans-set-to-be-unveiled-in-the-new-year-3502407&h=AT10NHMQjI7F643lFF-d2gFhfRzA86BjrZ2N2tzVkNM11HYou9mT7y4jwNu37LXsSEmtH-U6cwQuMEF2nF41LeUJAs75jiV5N0bj_8B-OZNxpJ9aCg3rz3GuH2IEAYRB
Potential reprieve for Leamside Line?
RE: Leamside Line - 54APhotography - 22 Dec 2021
(22 Dec 2021, 3:27 pm)Andreos1 wrote https://lm.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sunderlandecho.com%2Fnews%2Ftransport%2Fleamside-line-reopening-plans-set-to-be-unveiled-in-the-new-year-3502407&h=AT10NHMQjI7F643lFF-d2gFhfRzA86BjrZ2N2tzVkNM11HYou9mT7y4jwNu37LXsSEmtH-U6cwQuMEF2nF41LeUJAs75jiV5N0bj_8B-OZNxpJ9aCg3rz3GuH2IEAYRBFunding. The main stumbling block, plus councils that don't co-operate. £625m the lightest estimate. With OLE £1bn.
Potential reprieve for Leamside Line?
RE: Leamside Line - deanmachine - 22 Dec 2021
(22 Dec 2021, 3:27 pm)Andreos1 wrote https://lm.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sunderlandecho.com%2Fnews%2Ftransport%2Fleamside-line-reopening-plans-set-to-be-unveiled-in-the-new-year-3502407&h=AT10NHMQjI7F643lFF-d2gFhfRzA86BjrZ2N2tzVkNM11HYou9mT7y4jwNu37LXsSEmtH-U6cwQuMEF2nF41LeUJAs75jiV5N0bj_8B-OZNxpJ9aCg3rz3GuH2IEAYRB
Potential reprieve for Leamside Line?
Read this article the other day, I'll believe it when I see it, I don't understand who would fund it if not Central Government? Nexus wouldn't be interested and neither would Durham, who else would pay for it?
RE: Leamside Line - busmanT - 22 Dec 2021
(22 Dec 2021, 5:04 pm)deanmachine wrote Read this article the other day, I'll believe it when I see it, I don't understand who would fund it if not Central Government? Nexus wouldn't be interested and neither would Durham, who else would pay for it?The North East was awarded £600m recently through the City Regions Sustainable Transport Settlement - BUT the money being released is dependent on there being a Mayoral Combined Authority rather than the current two CAs (with one having a mayor) and transport being run by a "Joint Committee".
Release of the funds will only take place if the North East has a single CA and an elected mayor (as it the case in the other 7 city regions).
That's why in the Integrated Rail Plan is says "....the Government considers that the case for re-opening the Leamside route would be best considered as part of any future city region settlement."
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/city-region-sustainable-transport-settlements-developing-proposals/city-region-sustainable-transport-settlements-guidance-for-mayoral-combined-authorities
Leamside Line - Adrian - 11 Jan 2022
New business plan for Sunderland and South Tyneside Metro extension unveiled: https://www.sunderlandecho.com/business/new-business-plan-for-sunderland-and-south-tyneside-metro-extension-unveiled-3523383
Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
RE: Leamside Line - 54APhotography - 26 Jan 2022
(11 Jan 2022, 8:30 pm)Adrian wrote New business plan for Sunderland and South Tyneside Metro extension unveiled: https://www.sunderlandecho.com/business/new-business-plan-for-sunderland-and-south-tyneside-metro-extension-unveiled-3523383Quite surprised on a facebook thread of the Sunderland Echo, that when it was pointed out a directly elected mayor could hold the key to investment for the Leamside, the response was a lot of laughter emojis and derisory comments.. Seems the incumbent council majority has little fear of a public vote on an elected mayor.. I had a rare off-road cycle along the line from South Hlyton to Penshaw and along side to Shiney Row, and later off the C2C alongside the Leamside to Seven Houses on Monday and noticed the trackbed in many areas is the home of drinking gangs, thought occurred to me that if Nexus were to operate battery operation and cab signalling might be the best course, the trackbed is not secure anywhere..
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RE: Leamside Line - Andreos1 - 04 Feb 2022
https://twitter.com/tobynhughes/status/1489518222248484864?t=7-FrI-DWfuXGD-YwC6lUrg&s=19
One to keep an eye on?
RE: Leamside Line - MurdnunoC - 04 Feb 2022
(04 Feb 2022, 10:12 am)Andreos1 wrote https://twitter.com/tobynhughes/status/1489518222248484864?t=7-FrI-DWfuXGD-YwC6lUrg&s=19
One to keep an eye on?
To echo the comments of respondants to Tobyn"s tweet: there's no real reason why a station at Gatehsead Quays couldn't go ahead irrespective of whether the Leamside Line is restored.
It wouldn't be too hard to get to Follingsby either.
RE: Leamside Line - busmanT - 04 Feb 2022
(04 Feb 2022, 10:12 am)Andreos1 wrote https://twitter.com/tobynhughes/status/1489518222248484864?t=7-FrI-DWfuXGD-YwC6lUrg&s=19
One to keep an eye on?
One minute re-opening the Leamside Line is to take freight trains off the ECML; next minute it's to allow a frequent Metro service to run to Washington (and perhaps to Sunderland and from South Shields); and now with a new station at Gateshead Quays it sounds like a heavy rail stopping service is going to operate as well.
The fact that these people are out sightseeing on a cold and windy day suggests some real action soon - I predict that the first thing the new Mayor of the North East (excluding Durham) will do is announce the re-opening of the Leamside Line.
RE: Leamside Line - Andreos1 - 04 Feb 2022
(04 Feb 2022, 11:41 am)MurdnunoC wrote To echo the comments of respondants to Tobyn"s tweet: there's no real reason why a station at Gatehsead Quays couldn't go ahead irrespective of whether the Leamside Line is restored.One of the replies was about making the business case stack up and there being more chance of it working with trains from the Leamside Line joining those from the Durham Coast.
It wouldn't be too hard to get to Follingsby either.
RE: Leamside Line - 54APhotography - 05 Feb 2022
(04 Feb 2022, 5:58 pm)Andreos1 wrote One of the replies was about making the business case stack up and there being more chance of it working with trains from the Leamside Line joining those from the Durham Coast.The location of the station would presumably be between the site of the old Gateshead East platforms and the bridge over Oakwellgate? Perhaps the shoots of a park and ride?
RE: Leamside Line - Andreos1 - 05 Feb 2022
(05 Feb 2022, 9:09 am)54APhotography wrote The location of the station would presumably be between the site of the old Gateshead East platforms and the bridge over Oakwellgate? Perhaps the shoots of a park and ride?I'm not sure how feasible it would be to put on the old site.
My own thoughts were that it would be somewhere down by the Sage itself. Maybe opposite the bingo where theres a car park currently.
RE: Leamside Line - MurdnunoC - 05 Feb 2022
(05 Feb 2022, 10:06 am)Andreos1 wrote I'm not sure how feasible it would be to put on the old site.
My own thoughts were that it would be somewhere down by the Sage itself. Maybe opposite the bingo where theres a car park currently.
That's my understanding of where any proposed station would be situated.