(16 Oct 2024, 8:00 pm)L469 YVK wrote Mam & Dad spent 1 hour getting back home on the 16:39 309 ex Newcastle. Before 2010 and Arriva's trial of the X8/X9 followed by their "pack 'em in and run 'em late im limp mode, tough s**t" approach......that journey would never be more than 30 minutes with the old 44!

It ain't perfect, but will be aiming to purchase as close to a Metro as a I can when entering the property market next year! Matchdays now even involve a lift to the Metro in most instances.

Instead of Arriva p***ing around with the 306 with some termimating in Marden or wherever, why can't NECA / ANor / GoNE stormach the 2x extra vehicles (28-1 if 306 curtailed in Tynemouth then +3 for X38) to have an X38 doing a loop of Marden, then Hillheads > NTGH > Billy Mill > Willington Square then non-stop to the Civic & Haymarket from there?

(17 Oct 2024, 12:03 pm)lewisparker1509 wrote Newcastle do not need another link to the coast, nor do they need an express service into town. If you want a fast way into town, get a metro. Your route fantasy's are very unrealisitic to say the least and seem like they would only benefit you, as it's what you so desperatley want.

If anything, there needs to be more links around Tynemouth and the Coast, especially with the Co-Op being closed for refurbishment. North Shields shops close earlier than an infant goes to bed, so more frequent evening links to shops would be ideal. A more requent service from Tynemouth to Preston Grange Morrisons would probably work best for Tynemouth residents, especially the elderly.

(17 Oct 2024, 9:26 am)Storx wrote That misses the point of the 306 extension which isn't there to connect to Newcastle. It's there to connect Whitley Bay - Marden - Morrisons Tynemouth / Pool - Tynemouth

There's no bus services bar the 317 which is a detour to Morrisons from any of those points and Marden and Tynemouth don't have a link to a supermarket, at all, without the 306. Unless they travelled to Byker which is completely unreasonable.

The vast majority of people in Marden walk to Cullercoats Metro Station bar the few which are at the Morrisons end who probably deserve something better really but not at the cost of the 306. Personally I think another service from the North, ie the 57/57A should be extended through instead of the 306 with that terminating at Tynemouth again which would give links further North and to the beach from SE Northumberland, also terminating at Tynemouth.

(17 Oct 2024, 12:15 pm)L469 YVK wrote To be honest, totally agree extending the 57/57A to Tynemouth and or North Shields.

But the 308/309 corridor including the 306 & 308 strongholds east of the A19 around Chirton & Billy Mill, have been crying out for an parallel express for a long time!

The 308 before COVID and excluding any SNCL Busways services (39, 40, 62, 63 etc) was presumably the most profitable in the North East after GoNE's 21.

(17 Oct 2024, 1:53 pm)Storx wrote See I don't think they do personally, the 309(X39) should be the service express imo with the 308 curtailed at Whitley Bay and going via Battle Hill.

I know the 308 in years past was the strongest, but at the same time there wasn't a huge business park there either and you just have to read the comments about the issues on the current X39 to see there's generally demand there even if it is only at peaks.

The 6 buses from Whitley Bay to Blyth is overkill aswell imo.

(17 Oct 2024, 2:25 pm)L469 YVK wrote But the big problem is off peak. Agree about the Cobalt situation during peak times, but off peak would be a risk commercially and wouldn't capture much 'leisure' traffic.

Via Billy Mill not only has fairly strong peak time flows, but has better leisure traffic opportunities.

- Nice day or event in Newcastle = Passengers wanting to head to Newcastle or the Coast and healthy loads

- NUFC home game = Queue of black & white shirts & scarves at stops with potential standing room only before hitting any non-stop sections

(17 Oct 2024, 3:13 pm)Storx wrote Not sure it would though like if you done the X39 doing this route including looping behind the cinema off peak only:


You've created a new link to Silverlink Retail Park and the cinema without having to walk around busy roundabouts. You just have to look at where like Arnison or Teesside Park and you'd pick a few people up. Right now it's a good 10 minute walk to the cinema.

There's absolutely nothing at the purple stops really where people want to be to create traffic. Remember these will have a quiet bus at this point since all the Blyth <> Whitley Bay traffic will be on the X39. Not to mention they'd gain a clean 10 minute service, unlike now where it's 8/12.

Not to mention if you done it the other way round the 309 would become completely pointless - it pretty much is anyway but the time difference would be substantial enough that there's no reason, bar going to Cobalt for anyone from New York to Blyth to use it at all. Least the 308 corridor has some traffic to make sense for both to actually exist.

(17 Oct 2024, 3:27 pm)Rob44 wrote I once used the bus to get to and from the silverlink Odeon. Never again. Back to car after that. Still got the scares of nearly getting knocked over at serveral round a bouts !

(17 Oct 2024, 3:13 pm)Storx wrote Not sure it would though like if you done the X39 doing this route including looping behind the cinema off peak only:


You've created a new link to Silverlink Retail Park and the cinema without having to walk around busy roundabouts. You just have to look at where like Arnison or Teesside Park and you'd pick a few people up. Right now it's a good 10 minute walk to the cinema.

There's absolutely nothing at the purple stops really where people want to be to create traffic. Remember these will have a quiet bus at this point since all the Blyth <> Whitley Bay traffic will be on the X39. Not to mention they'd gain a clean 10 minute service, unlike now where it's 8/12.

Not to mention if you done it the other way round the 309 would become completely pointless - it pretty much is anyway but the time difference would be substantial enough that there's no reason, bar going to Cobalt for anyone from New York to Blyth to use it at all. Least the 308 corridor has some traffic to make sense for both to actually exist.

(17 Oct 2024, 7:42 pm)L469 YVK wrote Saying that.....maybe it would work with something like the following

GoNE X39 (every 30 mins) - As mentioned

ANor 306 (every 30 mins) - Same as now, but Tynemouth to Newcastle only

GoNE 307 (every 30 mins) - Same as now

ANor 308 (every 30 minutes) - Same as now but via Battle Hill Drive

GoNE 309 (every 30 mins) - Same as now Newcastle to Cobalt, then via New York Road and Norham Road North picking up same route as 307 to North Shields

57/57A - extended to North Shields & Ferry, maybe use Tanners Bank rather than Linskill Terrace to create some new links along the Fish Quay!

Billy Mill to Newcastle - Every 15 mins
Battle Hill & Coast Road / Station Road to Newcastle - Every 7-8 mins**
High Farm to Newcastle - Every 15 mins
Blyth to NTGH - Every 15 mins

** Would be every 6-9 through Battle Hill Drive

Current PVR - 33
- 57/57A - 5x
- 306/308 - 14x
- 307 - 6x
- 309 - 8x

New PVR - 30
- 57/57A - 7x
- 306/308 - 10x
- 307 - 4x
- 309 - 4x
- X38 - 5x

There you go, some faster and improved links with cleaner headways, as long as ALL Coast Road routes are ALWAYS double deck!

• Southern end of Norham Road where the new houses have a bus service.
  
• New houses at Holystone and also around The Range at Benton have an acceptable bus service to Newcastle (Hourly isn't that).
  
• Southend end of Monkseaton have a reasonable bus service (the W1 isn't that).
  
• New North Tyneside Loop linking most the major destination points which can be difficult currently, even if it's not the quickest (it's better than nothing).
  

(17 Oct 2024, 7:42 pm)L469 YVK wrote Saying that.....maybe it would work with something like the following

GoNE X39 (every 30 mins) - As mentioned

ANor 306 (every 30 mins) - Same as now, but Tynemouth to Newcastle only

GoNE 307 (every 30 mins) - Same as now

ANor 308 (every 30 minutes) - Same as now but via Battle Hill Drive

GoNE 309 (every 30 mins) - Same as now Newcastle to Cobalt, then via New York Road and Norham Road North picking up same route as 307 to North Shields

57/57A - extended to North Shields & Ferry, maybe use Tanners Bank rather than Linskill Terrace to create some new links along the Fish Quay!

Billy Mill to Newcastle - Every 15 mins
Battle Hill & Coast Road / Station Road to Newcastle - Every 7-8 mins**
High Farm to Newcastle - Every 15 mins
Blyth to NTGH - Every 15 mins

** Would be every 6-9 through Battle Hill Drive

Current PVR - 33
- 57/57A - 5x
- 306/308 - 14x
- 307 - 6x
- 309 - 8x

New PVR - 30
- 57/57A - 7x
- 306/308 - 10x
- 307 - 4x
- 309 - 4x
- X38 - 5x

There you go, some faster and improved links with cleaner headways, as long as ALL Coast Road routes are ALWAYS double deck!

(18 Oct 2024, 2:57 pm)Ambassador wrote All the X39 needs is what is has now but with more reliable allocations.

Most people start work between 8 and 9 and finish between 4 and 6 which is what the 22X and X39 offer. It's not ideal in between having to use the 309 as it takes an age comparatively.

Links to places like Heworth and Gateshead (as the X39 previously did) would be more useful but at the moment the X39 is designed around operational convenience and not passenger growth

More could be made of the 19 to connect at Percy Main and Northumberland Park Metro stations to offer faster connections

(17 Oct 2024, 9:25 pm)Storx wrote See I'd probably more services than that and personally go for something like this:


So you'd have

X38 - Orange Route (Every 20 Minutes) - Newcastle to Blyth Express via Cobalt

33: Light Blue (Every 30 Minutes) - Newcastle to Wiltshire Drive
34: Purple (Every 30 Minutes) - Newcastle to Whitley Bay via Holystone
35:  Green (Every 30 Minutes) - Newcastle to North Shields via Meadowell

36/37: Dark Blue (Every 20 Minutes Each) - Newcastle to North Tyneside Loop

33/34/35/36/37: Every 5 Minutes Combined, Newcastle to Station Road

It's basically just going backwards and restoring the 315/316 in a new form and the 308 being reinvented but on the 309 corridor instead through Cobalt. With 3 less frequent services doing the niggly bits which are awkward (basically the old 305/307/355 in bits) so people in the likes of Verne Road aren't having to go on a magical mystery tour.

Plus you'd also get:

• Southern end of Norham Road where the new houses have a bus service.
  
• New houses at Holystone and also around The Range at Benton have an acceptable bus service to Newcastle (Hourly isn't that).
  
• Southend end of Monkseaton have a reasonable bus service (the W1 isn't that).
  
• New North Tyneside Loop linking most the major destination points which can be difficult currently, even if it's not the quickest (it's better than nothing).
  

Obviously not really possible without franchising, but imo it would be a much better service than what's there now. The duplication from New York to Blyth, in particular, is just stupid imo. It's crazy the amount of houses which have popped up in recent years and the bus services (as usual) just haven't turned up.

(18 Oct 2024, 9:04 pm)L469 YVK wrote You know what it is.....they're a pretty strong set of changes and really like them. Yes would be a bit of a re-jigg and getting used to, but would open up some decent links and actually integrates all the hard to reach areas into a streamlined corridor.

My only question for the X39:

- Would it serve Silverlink during peak times (in the according Ncl > Cobalt flow) or via Middle Engine Lane? Don't suppose it would be an issue if coordinated with the 36/37 and alternative arrangements clearly communicated with passengers.

(16 Oct 2024, 3:50 pm)BusLoverMum wrote Also not reversed, pre-covid, GNE ran 6 buses per hour between Newcastle and Durham, 8 at peak times, in some combination of 21 and X21. It’s still only 4 . When they show up.

One thing I have seen for the first time in however long is morning dupes on the 50, though - though some mornings that ends up being 2 streetlites running together. I’ve not seen it as pointless as a streetlites and a solo, yet, though it wouldn’t surprise me as there has been a solo and an double decker, some mornings.

(19 Oct 2024, 8:29 pm)Jimmi wrote Previously, it was 4bph on service 21 and 2bph on service X21 (6 bph with extra X21's at peak times) - a few months prior to covid, they experimented with running the X21 every 15 mins between Newcastle & Durham during off peak (half hourly still towards Bishop) but was something which never returned post covid.
Their arguments probs being that there's 6bph between Durham Bus Station & the Arnison Centre on the 21/50/X20 then after that it's nothing till CLS and suggests 4bph is enough to head from Durham to Newcastle - anyone with a degree of sanity would get the train which takes 10-15 mins rather than crawl through Low Fell at peak times, I have started doing the train to reach Newcastle from Durham as the 21/X21 feels slower and slower each time I do it (and can't keep to time) - Arriva cutting the X12 to hourly between Durham and Newcastle also hasn't helped. Sure enough, last time I did a hop on the train to Newcastle, passengers who alighted from the same 7 at Durham as me also used the train to reach Newcastle.

(20 Oct 2024, 7:33 am)L469 YVK wrote Would there be much impact if Low Fell was binned off the X21 during Monday to Saturday daytimes? The X21 never used to stop in Low Fell until 2016 when the first StreetDecks were introduced. Would give flexibility to come off at Lobley Hill and then via Lobley Hill Rd & Bensham Road as an alternative if Low Fell is packed.

(19 Oct 2024, 8:29 pm)Jimmi wrote Previously, it was 4bph on service 21 and 2bph on service X21 (6 bph with extra X21's at peak times) - a few months prior to covid, they experimented with running the X21 every 15 mins between Newcastle & Durham during off peak (half hourly still towards Bishop) but was something which never returned post covid.
Their arguments probs being that there's 6bph between Durham Bus Station & the Arnison Centre on the 21/50/X20 then after that it's nothing till CLS and suggests 4bph is enough to head from Durham to Newcastle - anyone with a degree of sanity would get the train which takes 10-15 mins rather than crawl through Low Fell at peak times, I have started doing the train to reach Newcastle from Durham as the 21/X21 feels slower and slower each time I do it (and can't keep to time) - Arriva cutting the X12 to hourly between Durham and Newcastle also hasn't helped. Sure enough, last time I did a hop on the train to Newcastle, passengers who alighted from the same 7 at Durham as me also used the train to reach Newcastle.

The extra morning 50 was a recent introduction (typically allocated a StreetLite as it drops onto the 8 afterwards), as was extending a 16A to start from Harelaw Bank Top - although the article also proclaims about an extra X15 and X21 like its a new thing/improvement (these have existed for 10+ years now!!!):  https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/extra-capacity-durham-student-buses

(18 Oct 2024, 7:33 pm)Storx wrote To be honest, I'm surprised they've never worked with Stagecoach about extending the 22 through to Northumberland Park. Should be only 1 bus and they'd have a very frequent 10 minute service, not to mention the benefits from other areas especially with the Northumberland Line. From someone on it, it would be quite a handy little connection if I needed to go to down that way for whatever reason. Be as quick than going around the Metro loop.

Cobalt is a right old dead end point for the route and it's no surprise they're pretty much always dead. Not to mention they could cash in when the Metro goes kaput every other week.

(17 Oct 2024, 9:25 pm)Storx wrote See I'd probably more services than that and personally go for something like this:


So you'd have

X38 - Orange Route (Every 20 Minutes) - Newcastle to Blyth Express via Cobalt

33: Light Blue (Every 30 Minutes) - Newcastle to Wiltshire Drive
34: Purple (Every 30 Minutes) - Newcastle to Whitley Bay via Holystone
35:  Green (Every 30 Minutes) - Newcastle to North Shields via Meadowell

36/37: Dark Blue (Every 20 Minutes Each) - Newcastle to North Tyneside Loop

33/34/35/36/37: Every 5 Minutes Combined, Newcastle to Station Road

It's basically just going backwards and restoring the 315/316 in a new form and the 308 being reinvented but on the 309 corridor instead through Cobalt. With 3 less frequent services doing the niggly bits which are awkward (basically the old 305/307/355 in bits) so people in the likes of Verne Road aren't having to go on a magical mystery tour.

Plus you'd also get:

• Southern end of Norham Road where the new houses have a bus service.
  
• New houses at Holystone and also around The Range at Benton have an acceptable bus service to Newcastle (Hourly isn't that).
  
• Southend end of Monkseaton have a reasonable bus service (the W1 isn't that).
  
• New North Tyneside Loop linking most the major destination points which can be difficult currently, even if it's not the quickest (it's better than nothing).
  

Obviously not really possible without franchising, but imo it would be a much better service than what's there now. The duplication from New York to Blyth, in particular, is just stupid imo. It's crazy the amount of houses which have popped up in recent years and the bus services (as usual) just haven't turned up.

(21 Oct 2024, 1:39 am)V514DFT wrote They could probably extend the 22 to Backworth, even if its only 1 an hour giving Backworth better and direct links

---

Pretty strong set of suggestions, but what about the dupe numbers, shame the numbering "system" is all over the place, otherwise you could of had 11,12,13,14/14A, the X38 is fine

(19 Nov 2024, 3:40 pm)L469 YVK wrote On the 351 now and quite surprised at the loadings for supposedly a 'micky mouse' hourly ran subsidised service.

If franchising came about or maybe GoNE/Arriva/NECA did further Coast Road changes, could easily be justified properly integraging into the Coast Road group of services, maybe more frequent Newcastle to Holystone or every 30 mins full route!

(20 Nov 2024, 8:13 am)RMF1254 wrote Bigger buses are what is needed now before it starts to lose these passengers from the ‘traditional’ part of the route. Standing is now the norm at certain times of the day as more people from Holystone Park, East Benton and Fallow Park are using the service.