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+--- Thread: Go North East: Latest News & Discussion - January 2014 (/showthread.php?tid=1251)
RE: Go North East - Latest - Dan - 12 Jan 2014
(12 Jan 2014, 2:41 pm)Tom wrote Yeah, I guess the ''Whey-aye-Five-0'' Solar will be transferred to various depots, as an example, 4926 will go to Stanley to replace 8221, 4927 to Gateshead to replace 8229, 4928 and 4929 staying at Chester-le-Street to replace 8236 and 8237, then 4930 and 4931 to Percy Main to replace 8239 and 8241. I reckon 8238 will be replaced by a B10BLE.
Probably a lot simpler to just have 4926 replace 8236, 4927 replace 8237, and so on.
RE: Go North East - Latest - Andreos1 - 12 Jan 2014
Can anyone confirm the costs incurred in buying an SPD new compared to a Renown?
With them being a similar capacity, but one being lightweight and having a shorter lifespan, I wondered what difference there were.
Obviously there is fuel consumption, running and servicing costs to take into account too.
RE: Go North East - Latest - Tom - 12 Jan 2014
(12 Jan 2014, 2:45 pm)Dan wrote Probably a lot simpler to just have 4926 replace 8236, 4927 replace 8237, and so on.
Suppose so!
Well, bar the Deptford ones, these are the SPD's that need replacing:
8220 - Winlaton
8221 - Stanley
8229 - Gateshead
8236 - Chester-le-Street
8237 - Chester-le-Street
8238 - Chester-le-Street (Can't 4944 just be it's replacement?)
8239 - Percy Main
8241 - Percy Main
RE: Go North East - Latest - CatsFast101 - 12 Jan 2014
(12 Jan 2014, 2:52 pm)Tom wrote Suppose so!
Well, bar the Deptford ones, these are the SPD's that need replacing:
8220 - Winlaton
8221 - Stanley
8229 - Gateshead
8236 - Chester-le-Street
8237 - Chester-le-Street
8238 - Chester-le-Street (Can't 4944 just be it's replacement?)
8239 - Percy Main
8241 - Percy Main
8289 - Chester-Le-Street also.
I'd imagine the movements will probably see 4 Solars at Chester stay there to replace their vehicles with 1 moving across to Gateshead. 4 Renowns then off to Percy Main, Stanley & Winlaton. There's also 1 solar spare at Chester too not sure where that'll end up. Citaro5284 has just said that one solar will also move from Deptford. Maybe the Chester spare and one from Deptford as a regular allocation for the 71? Allowing X25/71 to be solar routes?
Deptford will gain 17 B9's. Lose 11 SPD's, 4 Renowns & 2 Solars which gives them like for like replacements.
RE: Go North East - Latest - Michael - 12 Jan 2014
What was the date for the B9's entering service on the Cobalt Clipper?
RE: Go North East - Latest - Greg in Weardale - 12 Jan 2014
(12 Jan 2014, 12:39 pm)Dan wrote Newcastle I agree will bring in the money, which is why a great deal of Enviro 400s have been purchased. Even still, you're looking at the latest batch (Hybrids) being from 2011. It's 2014 now.
South Shields... I agree less. Don't get me wrong, it will bring in a lot of money (there wouldn't be much point having its operations otherwise)... But I can't help but feel that if they were to play around with services and perhaps introduce a few more, they may be better off. They'd stand a higher chance of bigger profits and they would therefore be able to re-invest it into the fleets to provide customers with better vehicles.
In regards to plans putting profits before customer demand... I definitely disagree. Customers are who GNE get their profits from - if the demand is there and great enough, a service will be operated. If the demand for a service is small and it's not generating profit (run by run), that specific run will be axed. While it's great some operators justify operating underused services by looking at overall profit levels or looking at services they connect to, it's just not a particularly effective way of actually making a great deal of profit if you ask me.
Bus companies must provide a SERVICE and it should be the profit of each route on which it is judged rather than on a run-by-run basis; to provide a SERVICE you must accept some journeys will be less profitable but are essential for the service. Passengers need stability and constant changes make it extremely difficult for them and more likely that they'll change how they travel - go via rail or car if they can - as in much of their area GNE's competition is not from other bus companies but from other modes of travel. They aren't looking at their business as an overall NETWORK, with each route providing a SERVICE enabling people to get where they're going more or less when they want. Recent changes for example have cut the 1840 (approx) X21 from Newcastle to Bishop Auckland and curtailed the 1820 X7 from Middlesbrough at Peterlee instead of Sunderland - buses at times like this are essential if you are to provide a SERVICE. GNE are in a spiral of decline, they cut services so less people use them so they cut services .... this happened a few years ago but then with Peter Huntley came innovation and improvement, now we're back to decline and the 26th January changes highlight this. Yes, the economy has been difficult, but we're supposed to be over that and Go Ahead share price is well up. So come on, we need a much more positive approach and an overall NETWORK of comprehensive SERVICES.
RE: Go North East - Latest - CatsFast101 - 12 Jan 2014
Just thought aswell if the rumoured upgrade on the X7 occurs then there'll also be another 4 Renowns spare. Could we see the first B10's withdrawn? There'll be 6 spare if my calculations are correct.
RE: Go North East - Latest - ... - 12 Jan 2014
(10 Jan 2014, 6:30 pm)citaro5284 wrote Prince Bishops to be fitted with SCRT to reduce emissions. No new doubles deckers for the Prince Bishops then
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10927586.Cash_win_means_cleaner_bus_exhausts/?ref=rss
Ive just been reasing that the other 6 vehicles to be fitted are the Fast cats scania's. I bet the council's dont realise once it starts to interwork with the X36, that 5 out of the soon to be branded 11 vehicles that will be running on the X35s would be converted and will still be euro 3. Will the councils be increasing the funding for these vehicles or is GNE covering the cost to convert the other 5, or are they just being left at euro 3 while the council's are presuming that their funding has been used to upgrade 'fast cats X35' buses to euro 5.
RE: Go North East - Latest - cbma06 - 12 Jan 2014
(12 Jan 2014, 3:36 pm)dans_bus_photos wrote Ive just been reasing that the other 6 vehicles to be fitted are the Fast cats scania's. I bet the council's dont realise once it starts to interwork with the X36, that 5 out of the soon to be branded 11 vehicles that will be running on the X35s would be converted and will still be euro 3. Will the councils be increasing the funding for these vehicles or is GNE covering the cost to convert the other 5, or are they just being left at euro 3 while the council's are presuming that their funding has been used to upgrade 'fast cats X35' buses to euro 5.
Also on this site:
http://www.sunderland.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=8949
The deal was struck before GNE decided to run the X36 as Fastcats Brand and interwork with X35.
RE: Go North East - Latest - citaro5284 - 12 Jan 2014
(12 Jan 2014, 3:11 pm)Greg in Weardale wrote GNE are in a spiral of decline
Pretty powerful statement to put in the public domain. How do you justify this statement with over 14 million pound just recently spent on new vehicles?
RE: Go North East - Latest - Dan - 12 Jan 2014
(12 Jan 2014, 3:10 pm)Michael wrote What was the date for the B9's entering service on the Cobalt Clipper?
Like the Fab56 vehicles, the entry into service date has changed very frequently.
I don't think there's a date set in stone yet, but I'd guess Sun 26th Jan at the very earliest.
RE: Go North East - Latest - ... - 12 Jan 2014
(12 Jan 2014, 3:51 pm)cbma06 wrote Also on this site:
http://www.sunderland.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=8949
The deal was struck before GNE decided to run the X36 as Fastcats Brand and interwork with X35.
Yeah i understand that bit, but surely the councils are under the impression that they have paid for the fast cats buses that operate on the X35 to be upgraded to euro 5, but when 5205-09 join the fast cats brand they are still euro 3 and will be used on the X35s daily. In my opinion the council's should get their funding back to be used on other things, as upgrading the X35 to euro 5 when only just over half the vehicles will be upgraded seems daft. If they were to stay as stand alone services then i could understand, but having them interworking- id have said upgrade all the vehicles or none of them.
RE: Go North East - Latest - citaro5284 - 12 Jan 2014
(12 Jan 2014, 4:38 pm)dans_bus_photos wrote Yeah i understand that bit, but surely the councils are under the impression that they have paid for the fast cats buses that operate on the X35 to be upgraded to euro 5, but when 5205-09 join the fast cats brand they are still euro 3 and will be used on the X35s daily. In my opinion the council's should get their funding back to be used on other things, as upgrading the X35 to euro 5 when only just over half the vehicles will be upgraded seems daft. If they were to stay as stand alone services then i could understand, but having them interworking- id have said upgrade all the vehicles or none of them.
But how do you not know, GNE are paying for the rest themselves?
RE: Go North East - Latest - Michael - 12 Jan 2014
(12 Jan 2014, 4:36 pm)Dan wrote Like the Fab56 vehicles, the entry into service date has changed very frequently.
I don't think there's a date set in stone yet, but I'd guess Sun 26th Jan at the very earliest.
True, Hopefully they start entering service soon, any branded yet?
RE: Go North East - Latest - citaro5284 - 12 Jan 2014
(12 Jan 2014, 4:43 pm)Michael wrote True, Hopefully they start entering service soon, any branded yet?
How many times do you have to ask if they have been branded or in service. anyone would think you wanted to know
RE: Go North East - Latest - Michael - 12 Jan 2014
(12 Jan 2014, 4:45 pm)citaro5284 wrote How many times do you have to ask if they have been branded or in service. anyone would think you wanted to know
, just wondering, being here long enough!
RE: Go North East - Latest - Dan - 12 Jan 2014
(12 Jan 2014, 4:43 pm)Michael wrote True, Hopefully they start entering service soon, any branded yet?
I don't think so.
NL63XBZ is at Heysham today though:
![[Image: Go%20North%20East%20NL63XBZ%20140112%20Heysham-L.jpg]](http://malsfotofile.smugmug.com/HeyshamDocks/Go-Ahead-Group/i-rC89xVx/0/L/Go%20North%20East%20NL63XBZ%20140112%20Heysham-L.jpg)
Photo credit to Malcolm Jones.
RE: Go North East - Latest - ... - 12 Jan 2014
(12 Jan 2014, 4:43 pm)citaro5284 wrote But how do you not know, GNE are paying for the rest themselves?
You right i dont know, but surely that would be the logical thing to do though? as GNE are the ones who have decided to interwork the service after the councils have provided the funding for the amount of vehicles required for a stand alone service.
RE: Go North East - Latest - CatsFast101 - 12 Jan 2014
(12 Jan 2014, 4:56 pm)dans_bus_photos wrote You right i dont know, but surely that would be the logical thing to do though? as GNE are the ones who have decided to interwork the service after the councils have provided the funding for the amount of vehicles required for a stand alone service.
To be fair, GNE have started to interwork the services to improve the X35's reliability which will benefit passengers it's not been used to lower the PVR etc. It means that the 11 vehicles needed can be put to use to improve the service. I totally take your point that all the soon to be Fast Cats vehicles need to be upgraded otherwise it's not been used as it should, and hopefully as Citaro5284 suggests GNE will pay for the rest.
RE: Go North East - Latest - northtynelinks2 - 12 Jan 2014
(12 Jan 2014, 4:50 pm)Dan wrote I don't think so.
NL63XBZ is at Heysham today though:
Photo credit to Malcolm Jones.
Why has that taken so long to get there? Seems strange, and im guessing the other missing 3 were there aswell?
RE: Go North East - Latest - Dan - 12 Jan 2014
(12 Jan 2014, 5:38 pm)northtynelinks2 wrote Why has that taken so long to get there? Seems strange, and im guessing the other missing 3 were there aswell?
The Christmas period was inevitably going to cause delays. It is perhaps why Wrights did not follow any sort of 'schedule' at all, with three or more vehicles arriving some days before Christmas - notably in a rather random order too.
RE: Go North East - Latest - Greg in Weardale - 12 Jan 2014
(12 Jan 2014, 4:29 pm)citaro5284 wrote Pretty powerful statement to put in the public domain. How do you justify this statement with over 14 million pound just recently spent on new vehicles?
I don't deny that they have invested a great deal in vehicles recently, (as have other companies to a certain extent) but the positive, vibrant approach of the company of a couple of years ago seems to have disappeared and the level of service they are providing now is declining bit by bit as the constant changes are nibbling away at the edges of many routes (as in the two examples I gave), hence less people will travel so more cuts will be made ..... This will continue as long as they keep looking at each individual journey rather than being determined to provide an overall service on each route including less popular journeys which are however an integral and essential part of that service. To provide a reasonable overall service, routes such as X3, X7 and X21 which may not justify an evening or Sunday operation and have an hourly or half hourly frequency during the day, should really have first journeys throughout arriving at each end by 0730/0745 and last journeys departing about 1830. Anything less than that is not really a service and recent changes have often cut routes below this acceptable level of service hence less passengers will travel.
RE: Go North East - Latest - gtom - 12 Jan 2014
Greg, I have no idea what your agenda is. Were you denied employment? Were you fired? There's some obvious vitriol in your comments yet I cannot understand why.
Because GNE have cut unprofitable poorly used services you declare them to be in decline? Financial figures disagree. It seems very personal with you. I think you need to move into reality. The services you mention are poorly used, changing them won't make any more people use them.
The X3 is not and has never been a popular well used service. It has been cut. People need to accept this
RE: Go North East - Latest - park5354 - 12 Jan 2014
(12 Jan 2014, 4:50 pm)Dan wrote I don't think so.
NL63XBZ is at Heysham today though:
Photo credit to Malcolm Jones.
wonder if wrights will correct the rear destination before it leaves Heysham.
RE: Go North East - Latest - Dan - 12 Jan 2014
(12 Jan 2014, 7:37 pm)CatsFast101 wrote On another note does anyone think it might be nice for all the route maps to be designed similar to the way they are the bus briefings?
Oh yes, I'd love that.
Think the only disadvantage would be when it comes to long services which cross multiple zone boundaries, it could be hard to make.
(12 Jan 2014, 7:39 pm)park5354 wrote wonder if wrights will correct the rear destination before it leaves Heysham.
You'd have expected them to do it before it arrived at Heysham whilst on the production line, but nope!
Expect it'll be delivered like that and sorted when here.
RE: Go North East - Latest - Adrian - 12 Jan 2014
(12 Jan 2014, 7:37 pm)CatsFast101 wrote Ah okay, I've seen it there now, looks a little out of place on the page- could be smaller.
On another note does anyone think it might be nice for all the route maps to be designed similar to the way they are the bus briefings?
Yes! Arriva do this and it's a good reference if you're unfamiliar with a route. e.g. http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/uploadedfiles/Services/North_East/nedu24,24X_271013_020913m.pdf
RE: Go North East - Latest - park5354 - 12 Jan 2014
(12 Jan 2014, 2:52 pm)Tom wrote Suppose so!
Well, bar the Deptford ones, these are the SPD's that need replacing:
8220 - Winlaton
8221 - Stanley
8229 - Gateshead
8236 - Chester-le-Street
8237 - Chester-le-Street
8238 - Chester-le-Street (Can't 4944 just be it's replacement?)
8239 - Percy Main
8241 - Percy Main
probably keep 4926-31 at Chester as replacements for 8236, 8237, 8238 and 8289, allowing 4944 to replace 8229 at Gateshead. Wonder if 4911 will replace 8220 at Winlaton.
RE: Go North East - Latest - Dan - 12 Jan 2014
(12 Jan 2014, 7:41 pm)ADLEnviro wrote After reading comments about two of the major operators in our area I've did a little research and have come to the following on fleet replacment.
As a lot of people seem to think GNEs fleet replacement is massive compared to SNEs the figure's actually show something else.
Over the last 10 years the new vehicles entering the fleet are.
Go North East 357
Stagecoach North East 355
So SNE has a much higher percentage of fleet renewal over the last 10 years than GNE dose.
Anybody fancy doing Arriva????
In the past ten years (vehicle new in 2003-2013), Arriva have 338 vehicles - providing NEB's fleet lists are correct, that is.
Will those figures be as close by the end of 2015 though, do you think? You've got 160+ vehicles from GNE - will ANE/SNE match that? I'll be impressed if so, and very surprised.
RE: Go North East - Latest - gtom - 12 Jan 2014
(12 Jan 2014, 7:41 pm)ADLEnviro wrote After reading comments about two of the major operators in our area I've did a little research and have come to the following on fleet replacment.
As a lot of people seem to think GNEs fleet replacement is massive compared to SNEs the figure's actually show something else.
Over the last 10 years the new vehicles entering the fleet are.
Go North East 357
Stagecoach North East 355
So SNE has a much higher percentage of fleet renewal over the last 10 years than GNE dose.
Anybody fancy doing Arriva????
I think GNE are excellent at telling us about what they are doing, hence the perception.
May sound silly but having a corporate set livery as Stagecoach does can see new buses slip by the general public as they don't look any different (to a degree) to the old bus. Same livery, nicer seats inside as opposed to the fanfare around The Purple Pumper or whatever GNE brands something
RE: Go North East - Latest - Dan - 12 Jan 2014
(12 Jan 2014, 7:46 pm)Dan wrote In the past ten years (vehicle new in 2003-2013), Arriva have 338 vehicles - providing NEB's fleet lists are correct, that is.
Will those figures be as close by the end of 2015 though, do you think? You've got 160+ vehicles from GNE - will ANE/SNE match that? I'll be impressed if so, and very surprised.
For the record, vehicles new between 2003-2013, according to NEB's fleet lists (obviously includes second hand purchases and the coaches in GNE's case):
ANE: 338 new vehicles between 2003-2013
GNE: 451 new vehicles between 2003-2013
SNE: 396 new vehicles between 2003-2013 (including the 17 gas buses purchased last year)
Suddenly not as close as I had previously thought using your figures for GNE/SNE, and I suspect the gap will get even bigger by the end of 2015. Ample opportunity to catch up from 2016 onwards though, as I expect it'll only be one or two batches of vehicles for a branded service rather than huge replacement schemes such as the ones GNE are currently undergoing.