(13 May 2020, 9:07 pm)Malarkey wrote ohh how I remember the days of Arriva operating what is now the 81/82 as the M3 in 2014, I specifically remember them operating through Barmston/Biddick several minutes early and then spending nearly 10 mins sitting at The Galleries heading towards Birtley, can see similar with GCT going forward and I do think they win a lot of contracts from the big 3 three year on year as they stipulate they'll use new fuel efficient buses, whereas if they matched what another operator was going to use vehicle wise then I think the latter would then keep the contract.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/adammalarkey/14400906258/in/album-72157649335867148/

(13 May 2020, 9:07 pm)Malarkey wrote ohh how I remember the days of Arriva operating what is now the 81/82 as the M3 in 2014, I specifically remember them operating through Barmston/Biddick several minutes early and then spending nearly 10 mins sitting at The Galleries heading towards Birtley, can see similar with GCT going forward and I do think they win a lot of contracts from the big 3 three year on year as they stipulate they'll use new fuel efficient buses, whereas if they matched what another operator was going to use vehicle wise then I think the latter would then keep the contract.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/adammalarkey/14400906258/in/album-72157649335867148/

(13 May 2020, 9:34 pm)streetdeckfan wrote A new vehicle isn't necessarily a better vehicle from a passengers perspective though. I'd much rather have a 5 year old GNE Streetlite than a brand new base spec E200
Do GCT spec the likes of WiFi and USB on their new vehicles?

(13 May 2020, 11:10 pm)Andreos1 wrote Aye, remember them having it for a year or two. Might be wrong, but I'm sure GNE then made it commercial for a bit, before they then said it wasn't sustainable and got Nexus to fund it again.

(14 May 2020, 11:25 am)Adrian wrote I'd agree with that, but only a mere 3% weighting of the bid is around 'enhanced customer experience' - which gives some indication of how little Nexus values these extra features. You could have the fastest Internet connection in the world, reclining seats and a sauna on board, but it would still only achieve a maximum of 3% of the weighting.

One thing that is rarely mentioned is the impact on effectively taking away next stop announcements from a service. I wonder if Nexus (or an operator for a commercial service) carry out any kind of equality impact assessment on this, as it would be interesting to see what the perceived impact is... comes back to making travel attractive, doesn't it? 

(13 May 2020, 9:34 pm)streetdeckfan wrote A new vehicle isn't necessarily a better vehicle from a passengers perspective though. I'd much rather have a 5 year old GNE Streetlite than a brand new base spec E200
Do GCT spec the likes of WiFi and USB on their new vehicles?

(14 May 2020, 3:33 pm)park5354 wrote 18/19 plate Fiats and 20 plate Mercs and ADL200MMC all have USB ports on them.

NO Wifi on any vehicle.

As 81/82/83/84 & 85/86 have to have a capacity of 36, then Solos or streetlites will be used.

(13 May 2020, 9:34 pm)streetdeckfan wrote A new vehicle isn't necessarily a better vehicle from a passengers perspective though. I'd much rather have a 5 year old GNE Streetlite than a brand new base spec E200
Do GCT spec the likes of WiFi and USB on their new vehicles?

(14 May 2020, 4:15 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Genuinely surprised that they spent the extra on the USB ports!

(14 May 2020, 4:15 pm)6049 wrote Don't forget that Washington's Solos do not have USB ports. WiFi and NSAs only.

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(14 May 2020, 5:57 pm)tyresmoke wrote They're likely all from dealer stock - especially to get them in service that quickly.

(14 May 2020, 6:53 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I get that they may not have had the highest spec vehicles on the route already, but my point was the age of a vehicle doesn't necessarily dictate how good it is from a customer perspective


That'll probably explain it, It would be very out of character for GCT to spend money on something that they're not contractually obliged to buy (and even then, they aren't exactly known for that either!)

(14 May 2020, 7:10 pm)tyresmoke wrote The E200's are probably Dawson Rentals motors to be honest

(14 May 2020, 6:53 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I get that they may not have had the highest spec vehicles on the route already, but my point was the age of a vehicle doesn't necessarily dictate how good it is from a customer perspective

(14 May 2020, 8:04 pm)park5354 wrote Collected from Sheffield, I believe, and they were originally white.

(15 May 2020, 7:21 am)idiot wrote If only Joe public knew that its because gne can't make enough profit on an evening and that's why the ticket can't be accepted

(15 May 2020, 8:18 am)6049 wrote Well no one is able to make a profit on it which is why Nexus have to secure it, and ticket acceptance appears to have been agreed?

People wouldn't expect a shop to stay open late if no one used it so the same principle applies to buses.

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(15 May 2020, 8:54 am)Andreos1 wrote If the shop wasn't proving popular, then it might look at a number of different things, including pricing structure and convenience. They certainly wouldn't see taxpayers support to let them stay open later. 

If these services aren't proving popular - then the question needs to be asked why.
Is the journey time? The frequency? The timetable? Pricing? Socio-economic factors? Something else? 
Once identified, those things need addressing. Just like the owners of the shop should do when they're looking at their business.
I can't see 'keeping it as it is' when it's not working, being too sustainable in the long run.

(15 May 2020, 8:54 am)Andreos1 wrote If the shop wasn't proving popular, then it might look at a number of different things, including pricing structure and convenience. They certainly wouldn't see taxpayers support to let them stay open later. 

If these services aren't proving popular - then the question needs to be asked why.
Is the journey time? The frequency? The timetable? Pricing? Socio-economic factors? Something else? 
Once identified, those things need addressing. Just like the owners of the shop should do when they're looking at their business.
I can't see 'keeping it as it is' when it's not working, being too sustainable in the long run.

(15 May 2020, 11:11 am)6049 wrote Having been on the Washington minibuses, the simple reason is they travel between two or three shopping centres and interchanges on indirect routes which serve older populations who don't venture out as much on a night. If they do venture out, they have their pass which does not generate much money in small numbers. Therefore Nexus deem it worthy of support.

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(15 May 2020, 11:28 am)Andreos1 wrote And that goes back to my points about what GNE could do to increase bums on seats? 
Are younger people not using it, because they're too infrequent? Is it because it's not taking them where they need to be? Is it because taxis in Washington are king? Is it down to the connections or facilities at Concord or the Galleries and the timetables not connecting to other buses?
There's so many factors at play, other than just that it goes between the different shopping centres, indirectly and its handy for the older population getting to the Westwood.

(15 May 2020, 11:37 am)6049 wrote Some of the kids do use them, again though the majority have CAT tickets which don't bring in much money as it's subsidised travel as well.

The main routes - i.e. the 4 and X1 do retain enough custom on a night most of the time. However, because the 4 especially runs almost directly through the centre of Washington many choose to just walk to or from that route home. It's only really if you live in Barmston, Ayton, Blackfell, Rickleton, Harraton or Teal Farm that you would require a connection- and with the exception of Teal Farm, all are served at least half hourly throughout the day.

At least in my experience


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(15 May 2020, 11:49 am)Andreos1 wrote I think you make some good points there and I agree about the 4 and X1, but if you're coming from Teal Farm and heading to Newcastle for a night out or meal, are you really going to hang around at the galleries waiting for connections there and back? Depending on your timings, you could be waiting the best part of a 30mins, just to get a bus to Newcastle. Dread to think what it would be like coming back, but guessing it could be the best part of an hour hanging around once they're off the X1. 
There's 90mins of an evening hanging around, plus travel time. 

At the Birtley end, you have problems during the day with punters on the new estate unable to get a bus down to Durham Road. They can get a bus up, but again, there's no incentive for them to use public transport - particularly if they can only use it in one direction. 
Similarly, if you're in Barley Mow, you have a regular bus during the day, but might have to walk to/from Portobello Road on a night to get anywhere. 

There's three barriers that I can think of straight away, that once removed or changed - could have a positive impact. 
Instead, they're left as they are. Yet people wonder why the buses need subsidies and why numbers are low.

(15 May 2020, 12:20 pm)6049 wrote The Teal Farm connection is correct heading towards Newcastle. You would miss the X1 by around 4 or 5mins. The return is better. If you get the X1 on the hour from Newcastle, there's only a 5mins wait for the 86 returning to Teal Farm. Teal Farm is the oddity of GNE in Washington as it's about the only place not served during the day. This is another part of the system where integrated ticketing would benefit passengers - you'd have to buy a single on the 37 and then buy a Purple day ticket or buy a Day Rover.

The Birtley end, I agree with. The problem is partly down to the layout of Birtley, there's nowhere to turn the bus round unless you moved the terminus to Mount Pleasant. However, then you run into another problem where you'd be turning the bus up Harris Bank which is a nasty enough road to come down before they put the traffic management in.

The main problem is that an increase in frequency may be beneficial in the long term to increaae passenger numbers, but in the short term they'd be unsustainable to do unless subsidised which is unlikely. So we're in a vicious circle which doesn't benefit anyone and is hard to break out of.

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(15 May 2020, 2:34 pm)Andreos1 wrote So getting back to Teal Farm is do-able, assuming you get the xx.00 X1 back and there's no delays on the trip?
I take your points about Teal Farm, but to me that shows how fragmented the system is. 
How about Blackfell, Harraton or Lambton and the same journey to/from Newcastle? 

As for Birtley, I think there are many options.
Harras Bank was served in both directions for a good while. The white lines outside the doctors heading down the hill were moved back, so buses could head up. 
There was the circular style service which operated in alternate patterns around Birtley.
Then there could be all sorts of alternative routes in and around Birtley that ensure you can get to and from certain parts and avoid Harras Bank. 

Whether its frequency, changed timings, variationst to routes, ticket integration or whatever else - between us, we've identified a number of problems and possible causes to low numbers and the need to have it subsidised (without even getting on to the should it be/shouldn't it be question). 
The question now, is whether anything will be done (innovative or not) or if we just see a constant repeat of what we see now till the money runs out.

(13 May 2020, 9:07 am)streetdeckfan wrote https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/nexus-contract-service-changes-17-may-2020

Looks like ticket acceptance has been agreed

(14 May 2020, 11:25 am)Adrian wrote One thing that is rarely mentioned is the impact on effectively taking away next stop announcements from a service. I wonder if Nexus (or an operator for a commercial service) carry out any kind of equality impact assessment on this, as it would be interesting to see what the perceived impact is... comes back to making travel attractive, doesn't it?

(17 May 2020, 10:09 am)Michael wrote What was the passenger numbers like on a Sunday, for the 135/136 during day time?, I've used the 135 after 8pm and its always empty so not surprised its funded by NEXUS however I'm still surprised to read the 39 still isn't busy on a night.

(17 May 2020, 10:28 am)deanmachine wrote Sunday daytime it normally is quiet, you can often do entire trips with no passengers, but there can be some where you can actually get a decent load, although that might be if a 35A is running late.

The 39 is very quiet on a night on the areas of the route it doesn't share with the 2, but once again, depends on if other buses are running late. Honestly the late 39s weren't very popular for Deptford drivers due to tight running times, especially if you catch people who could have gotten a 2 in the city centre. It's never busy on the Pennywell side, and after Ryhope heading to Doxy.