(02 Oct 2020, 11:07 pm)Bazza wrote You’re missing the point.    Arriva seem to be an easy target on here.  The negativity for them is astounding, only matched by the impression  that GNE can do no wrong.   I made a couple of points earlier on in this thread and was surprised nobody picked up on them.  Either nobody disagreed with what I said or the points that I made were widely off the mark. Which was it?    

As to the comments quoted above, where is the evidence that DB are sucking Arriva dry?  If it’s your opinion, then say so, or provide the evidence,  don’t just make a statement purporting it to be a fact.

(03 Oct 2020, 9:49 am)ASX_Terranova wrote Don't really want to go on a rant, but you're right. All of the big 3 are just as bad as each other cutting services and forcing Nexus, DCC & NCC to contract out sections and/or services to ill-equipped independents. To add on to your point Havent Arriva Merseyside gained new Enviro 200MC EV's within the last 18 months.

(02 Oct 2020, 11:07 pm)Bazza wrote You’re missing the point.    Arriva seem to be an easy target on here.  The negativity for them is astounding, only matched by the impression  that GNE can do no wrong.   I made a couple of points earlier on in this thread and was surprised nobody picked up on them.  Either nobody disagreed with what I said or the points that I made were widely off the mark. Which was it?    

As to the comments quoted above, where is the evidence that DB are sucking Arriva dry?  If it’s your opinion, then say so, or provide the evidence,  don’t just make a statement purporting it to be a fact.

(03 Oct 2020, 7:57 pm)Driver9*** wrote The average age of the fleet at Blyth is 11 years. The newest bus at the depot is 8 years old. If that is not under investment by DB I don't know what is.

(03 Oct 2020, 7:57 pm)Driver9*** wrote The average age of the fleet at Blyth is 11 years. The newest bus at the depot is 8 years old. If that is not under investment by DB I don't know what is.

(01 Oct 2020, 5:42 pm)Storx wrote Some of you on here are really blinded by shiny new things mind so much Arriva hate on here just because they don't buy new buses all the time. I might be different but personally I'd rather sit on a 10 year old bus (which is not old and doesn't need replacing) rather than sitting on a Gateshead Central Taxi service because my local company doesn't fancy running the service at night or having to use a taxi because my service just disappeared over night. Just looking at North of the Tyne on an Arriva vs Stagecoach vs GNE level.

I can't name one cut in the past 5 years between both Arriva and Stagecoach (admit I don't follow Stagecoach so might be something there with the 18/32/32A that's changed believe they were within 5 years) but can name some improvements. X30 direct to Blyth, 57A on Sundays, X24 direct to Sunderland, 22 extension to Cobalt, 1 extension to Cobalt etc.

Then there's GNE; 5 no longer through the tunnel,309 cut to 20 minutes, 310 cut to 20 minutes, 58 scrapped (no link to Gateshead), 1 cut to 20 minutes, 42 abandoned East of Wallsend, 40/41 butchered in half. 11/19/40/41/42 served by Gateshead Taxis in the evening. Improvements 19 evening 3 runs from Cobalt.

Arriva really aren't that bad; First is a bad company who've just shut depots down recently as they just don't fancy them anymore leaving places completely abandoned. I really don't think Arriva Northumbria will struggle to sell any of their depots regardless to the vehicles they have there heck Go Ahead just bought a depot in Manchester (GoNorthWest) from First which was an absolute basket case and inherited an ancient fleet from there - someone would be interested. Arriva's problem areas are down south in the Medway and Midlands where the fleet really is getting old and they'll be the ones they'll struggle to shift imo.

Just to add in their last accounts:
Arriva Midlands: 80k Profit
Arriva Midlands North: 2.86m Loss
Arriva Kent and Surrey: 2.32m Loss

Whereas we're I believe Arriva's strongest area:
Arriva Durham County: 4.429m Profit
Arriva Northumbria: 1.50m Profit
Arriva Yorkshire: 4.41m Profit

which is higher than GNE.

(03 Oct 2020, 9:15 pm)Storx wrote The average age of the fleet at Percy Main is 9 years. The newest bus at the depot is 7 years old. If that is not under investment by GoAhead I don't know what is.

The average age of the fleet at Hartlepool is 11 years. The newest bus at the depot is 9 years old. If that is not under investment by Stagecoach I don't know what is.

Just saying...

(04 Oct 2020, 12:06 pm)Dan wrote Excluding school buses (which, on paper, should only be on scholars), the average age of the fleet at Percy Main is actually 8.2 and the youngest bus is actually 6 years old (the 63-plate Volvo B9 which were new in 2014). There is quite a substantial difference between an average age of 8 and 11.

(04 Oct 2020, 12:06 pm)Dan wrote Excluding school buses (which, on paper, should only be on scholars), the average age of the fleet at Percy Main is actually 8.2 and the youngest bus is actually 6 years old (the 63-plate Volvo B9 which were new in 2014). There is quite a substantial difference between an average age of 8 and 11.

(04 Oct 2020, 1:24 pm)L469 YVK wrote And not forgetting that 6099-6117 have been extensively refurbished and were only 5-5.5 year old when completed. 

At least Go North East do their refurbs properly unlike Arriva who just take an ex London Gemini and tart it up as a premium 'express' bus. Although Go North East are refurbishing 6001-6007 and 6049-6055 which are 8-9 year old, they are a 'heavyweight' vehicle type and subsequently have a long shelf life left in them. Probably wouldn't surprise me if they were kept in front line service until about 12-15 year old.

(04 Oct 2020, 3:48 pm)Storx wrote tbf it was more a point if you pick out one depot it doesn't give a true representation of the whole company. It's 7 years rounded though for B9's.


There's no ex London Gemini's in frontline service at Blyth which are all spares. I'd rather have a refurbished ex London Gemini than a Omnidekka any day.

X7/X8/X9: 1493, 1501 - 1505, 7601 - 7608
X10/X11: 7611 - 7617, 7621 - 7625
308: 7628 - 7635
Spares: 1497, 7620, 7636 - 7637

The ex London deckers are being used on the expresses atm though to give the 1 and 2 full size singles and the X7/X8/X9 deckers for social distancing.

(04 Oct 2020, 1:24 pm)L469 YVK wrote And not forgetting that 6099-6117 have been extensively refurbished and were only 5-5.5 year old when completed. 

At least Go North East do their refurbs properly unlike Arriva who just take an ex London Gemini and tart it up as a premium 'express' bus. Although Go North East are refurbishing 6001-6007 and 6049-6055 which are 8-9 year old, they are a 'heavyweight' vehicle type and subsequently have a long shelf life left in them. Probably wouldn't surprise me if they were kept in front line service until about 12-15 year old.

(05 Oct 2020, 5:08 pm)L469 YVK wrote I do think that if it does get sold off bit by bit, Ashington depot would fit perfectly within GNE's current strategy. Only trouble would be service number parity for existing and incoming services so this is what I'd suggest:

Current GNE services:
- X15 > X4
- X20 > 20X or X90
- X30 > X2
- X31 > X3
- X32 > X3A

Incoming Arriva services:
- X15 = Same
- X20 = Same
- X21/ X22 > X31/X32 (Paying homage to previous incarnations)
- 35 > 435

(05 Oct 2020, 9:35 pm)Bazza wrote Do you think GNE  are in a position to buy Arriva Northumbria?

They have a surplus of buses (and drivers) due to the loss of contracts. 
They heavily invested in new buses before the pandemic hit. 
They have had to invent a coaching division as they have a surplus of unwanted NatEx coaches that they couldn’t hope to sell at a reasonable price.
As the NatEx network is still not up and running fully those coaches are also lying idle.

As detailed above,   They have made less profit than both Arriva and Stagecoach, despite being the bigger operator

(06 Oct 2020, 6:52 am)Dan wrote Is there any evidence of this, or is this just speculation? Isn't this something Go North East has done for several years now, just never formally 'branded'?

Due to PSVAR, there's been a huge surge in demand for ex-National Express coaches. It's only until recently that the market has been truly awash with coaches, due to the collapse of National Holidays. Go North East has still managed to sell a fair number of coaches within the last six months.

The irony being that these 'unwanted' coaches probably turn a bigger profit on rail replacement work than they do on National Express work - and, as has been evidenced recently, Go North East has been the major player in the North East bus scene, in terms of providing vehicles and drivers for these rail replacements.

Almost all of Go North East's National Express coaches are in use - nine on National Express work, with the majority of the others being allocated to scholars and/or scholars duplicates (ironically mainly for Arriva North East).

(01 Oct 2020, 6:29 pm)Storx wrote The thing is though from a normal passenger that's what it looks like. The dangerous game your playing now is oh the bus doesn't run at nights well I'm not using the bus then screw that then the day time service suddenly makes a loss. That small loss you made for running 5 or 6 runs probably doesn't look so bad in the end. Oh and it was a comparison between Arriva and GNE, somehow Arriva can make the 51, 53 and 54 work in the evenings yet GNE can't. Greed or luck, I'll let you decide that one but the 42 and 53 are very similar routes and serve similar areas.

(02 Oct 2020, 11:07 pm)Bazza wrote You’re missing the point.    Arriva seem to be an easy target on here.  The negativity for them is astounding, only matched by the impression  that GNE can do no wrong.   I made a couple of points earlier on in this thread and was surprised nobody picked up on them.  Either nobody disagreed with what I said or the points that I made were widely off the mark. Which was it?    

As to the comments quoted above, where is the evidence that DB are sucking Arriva dry?  If it’s your opinion, then say so, or provide the evidence,  don’t just make a statement purporting it to be a fact.

(06 Oct 2020, 10:51 am)Bazza wrote I’ll happily admit to it being complete speculation.  

My post was more about getting some debate going rather than the usual slagging off of Arriva.  You will see it’s more or less the same comment that was made further up the thread. No one bit on that comment, although there are a couple on here who have an opinion on everything. I also note that you managed to get in a dig at Arriva.  The fact that at the moment GNE is able to provide these dupes because of an excess of drivers / buses due to a reduction in overall services . What happens when the need for dupes end?  The buses maybe sold, what about the jobs?

its interesting to note that you have only replied to the coaching side of my post...

(24 Oct 2020, 9:57 am)ASX_Terranova wrote Were these intended for any of the north east divisons.
https://www.chartwellbussales.co.uk/buses_details.php?bus=217

(24 Oct 2020, 11:02 am)NewcastleOne wrote Believe they were the final un-delivered batch for the 110 (Arriva Yorkshire)

(24 Oct 2020, 1:48 pm)L469 YVK wrote So are Arriva running the 110 using a mixed fleet of StreetDecks & ADL E400 classics?

(24 Oct 2020, 5:14 pm)NewcastleOne wrote Unsure but these have been kept in Wrights since they went bust and then when they were ready Arriva cancelled them due to the pandemic. I presume they are.

(24 Oct 2020, 5:52 pm)L469 YVK wrote It goes to show the vulnerable state that Arriva is in if they're cancelling new vehicle orders. Newcastle CAZ has been postponed but by how much I don't know. Regardless, Arriva are going to have to upgrade their fleet eventually (not perhaps within the 18 months given the circumstances).

Can see a lot of service cuts to the services "that have been that way for 25 years" happening. A lot of streamlining & downsizing. In response to claims that ANE have made more profit than GNE, yes but at what expense? GNE have invested heavily over the years.

I can see Arriva broken and sold within the next few years as they don't have the capacity going forward. Ashington depot would thrive under GNE though if they got it. Big expansion of "X-Lines" and also a similar demographic to Consett & Stanley in the sense of the area being a "commuting" as well as ex mining.

(24 Oct 2020, 11:26 pm)Storx wrote It's not a 'claim' that Arriva North East make more profit than GNE it's a fact.

It's the only fact in the whole thing you've wrote there, the rest of it is assumptions at best. Also most of the buses in Northumbria which operate into Newcastle are Euro 6 already. Investments doesn't affect profits so that's irrelevant, if anything that should increase profits not vice versa since patronage should go up.

If your going to make claims such as, 'Arriva don't have the capacity going forward,' then you need to back it up with evidence which I must've missed somewhere. Cancelling an order of 7 buses isn't that. You don't tend to spend money during a pandemic when your profits are down when you don't need too it's just suicidal.

(25 Oct 2020, 6:53 am)citaro5284 wrote You need to pay for the investments from your profits thou.

So, if you are not spending money and investing in new vehicles, then your profits will be higher as you have not got to pay for them?

(24 Oct 2020, 11:26 pm)Storx wrote If your going to make claims such as, 'Arriva don't have the capacity going forward,' then you need to back it up with evidence which I must've missed somewhere. Cancelling an order of 7 buses isn't that. You don't tend to spend money during a pandemic when your profits are down when you don't need too it's just suicidal.

(25 Oct 2020, 8:45 am)Rob44 wrote Finally on GNE taking bit of ANE if it was sold.... I cant believe anyone would want a monopoly. even now its not great but imagine if GNE got north of tyne with only limit comp from Stagecoach. My mind boggles at the though!

(25 Oct 2020, 6:53 am)citaro5284 wrote You need to pay for the investments from your profits thou.

So, if you are not spending money and investing in new vehicles, then your profits will be higher as you have not got to pay for them?

(25 Oct 2020, 8:49 am)L469 YVK wrote But the point is that the order for the 110 was planned 'pre-pandemic and was only coincidentially delayed due to the troubles with WrightBus. As was GNE's but with a bit of shuffling around (premature frequency increase of X21 reversed), the Go-Ahead group took full delivery and GNE even benefited with good condition coaches for the X9 & X10