(28 Oct 2023, 12:23 pm)Storx wrote I was going to start a new thread but not really worth it but was just thinking does anyone know how this new 57/57A is going to work. If I'm right a 57, 57A, 57A, 57 round trip is just shy of a 5 hour round trip which is rather testing the boundaries of the legal limit.

There's nothing it can really interwork with either as nothing terminates in Ashington other that the X21 but deckers are a bit overkill.

(28 Oct 2023, 1:39 pm)mb134 wrote Legal limit before a break is 5 hours 30 minutes so they have half an hour to play with.

(28 Oct 2023, 6:20 pm)Storx wrote Seems quite tight though if things go wrong. They're quite often 20 mins or so late as it is.

(28 Oct 2023, 6:20 pm)Storx wrote Seems quite tight though if things go wrong. They're quite often 20 mins or so late as it is.

(28 Oct 2023, 6:42 pm)RobinHood wrote Many service 'patterns' are around this length.

Service 22/23/24 for example and things like the X12 (for Stockton).

But in the 57/57A case, it can be relieved after 2.5 hours if needs be.

(28 Oct 2023, 6:48 pm)mb134 wrote Isn't it around 4 hours 51 minutes for the full cycle? 

That would allow for 39 minutes of late running - at which point you'd probably just terminate it at Cramlington on its last trip and have it run back dead, because the other one will have gone?

(28 Oct 2023, 11:38 pm)Unber43 wrote Companies should start doing active replacement for the rotues which have high delays, Ive suggested this for months on the 56 espeically when the metro is off and they can get upto 30 mins delays, have two or three buses (ofcs for a 12 mins service), where the new drviers can just take them and when the late drivers come in they can just park up and it will massively help with delays, tbf they should do that on a night as the 56 is tightly timetabled

To take this back to Arriva, they should be doing this on the22/23/24/X12 currently

(28 Oct 2023, 11:42 pm)mb134 wrote Most depots already do this where it is feasible, with the buses already available to them. Arriva Blyth are well known for it, and I believe Ashington do it on the X21/22 if an inbound X22 is running late. 

To do it how you suggest with two or three buses parked up waiting to go isn't going to happen, you'd be adding 2-3 to the PVR of the service which would nuke the profitability of it.

(28 Oct 2023, 11:45 pm)Unber43 wrote Not really, theyre always spares at the Depot even if its singles, its not for every service but big delays, parking two-three vehicles up at a time not going to be a massive cost really. They would just be parked at the bus station ready for service rahter than at the depot.

If GNE did this for the 56/21/X21 things would go a lot smoother, I would bring back the 28 min layover on the X21 at Newcaslte tbh

(29 Oct 2023, 12:04 am)mb134 wrote There really aren't always spares available. The spare vehicles on paper are there to cover for things like planned maintenance, MOT, breakdowns etc., there isn't 10-12% of a depots PVR sat around every day on the off chance a service is late. 

Sometimes depots might be in a position where they have a couple of fully spare vehicles per day, in which case they might use them to regulate service. In terms of flexibility though, it's likely easier to keep them at the depot so that engineering can take them to a breakdown quickly. 

Essentially, if you're parking up buses in a bus station with the sole intent of replacing late running 56s, they should be part of the PVR for that service if the service cannot reliably operate without them. That is what increases the cost.

(28 Oct 2023, 11:42 pm)mb134 wrote Most depots already do this where it is feasible, with the buses already available to them. Arriva Blyth are well known for it, and I believe Ashington do it on the X21/22 if an inbound X22 is running late. 

To do it how you suggest with two or three buses parked up waiting to go isn't going to happen, you'd be adding 2-3 to the PVR of the service which would nuke the profitability of it.

(29 Oct 2023, 12:07 am)Unber43 wrote When Ive passed Deptford and Riverside theyve had plenty of spares parked up. atleast 7/8

(29 Oct 2023, 9:45 am)Storx wrote I don't believe they actively replace them at Blyth do they? It's more just swapping things around as a few of them have 10 minute layovers, so the bus with 10 minutes layover goes onto the X10 running 10 minutes late or whatever, then the 10 minutes late X10 drops onto the 308 and leaves on time.

To be fair, GNE could easily do it in places like Gateshead, Park Lane, Eldon Square (10/10A/10B/21/X21/X10) or (6/X30/X31/X45/X46/47), Consett etc if everything wasn't painted in different colours for the sake of it without much too hassle as long as there's a driver ready to go out and they were trained for the routes.

The X10 has a 18 minute layover at Eldon Square for example, but it'll just sit there while the X21 is running along 15 minutes late or whatever.

(29 Oct 2023, 12:33 pm)mb134 wrote How do you know they're parked up spare though? They might be needing engineering attention, it's very common for multiple buses per day being off with defects.


I mean I'd class it as actively swapping them? They could just sit there and let things get later and later, but swapping the vehicles available to them by using layover is actively trying to improve service. Same with if GNE were to do it at Consett as you've suggested - I think doing it at Eldon Square might be a bit different, realistically in your X10 example there's a fair chance the bus it's replacing on the X21 probably can't hack an X10.

I think it's also different to the Deptford example. Since the bus station is literally attached to the depot it's far easier for them to fetch a bus that engineering have finished with, and it's very easy for them to steal a bus from the depot if a breakdown has happened somewhere.

(28 Oct 2023, 11:38 pm)Unber43 wrote Companies should start doing active replacement for the rotues which have high delays,

To take this back to Arriva, they should be doing this on the 22/23/24/X12 currently

(29 Oct 2023, 12:47 pm)Storx wrote Not sure about Deptford though, it's no real different to Haymarket where Jesmond used to do regulation quite well, the inspector with his clipboard used to be always out redirecting buses across stands to sort out stuff there. Sure Belmont is the same in Durham aswell but I'm very rarely down there. I'm not 100% sure whether it was just on breaks but sure Jesmond used to regularly have a bus on standby parked up in the drop off stand that's never used in Haymarket at the Junction (pub) side.

(29 Oct 2023, 1:09 pm)mb134 wrote Oh that could absolutely happen, I was more meaning the suggestion they should have 2-3 buses parked up at all times waiting for a late running 56. 

Could be wrong, but was the Jesmond bus they had parked up for most of the day one of the ones that would do an AM/PM school run? Obviously at that point it's fully fit for service, has had a first use inspection, and engineering likely don't need it. It seemed to get swapped onto anything, I'm assuming knowing that another decker would be back to replace whatever was swapped off by school time.