(05 Sep 2014, 8:15 pm)Michael wrote I know but i'm just saying it may receive after the changes happen, don't have to get them straight away

(05 Sep 2014, 8:02 pm)Tom wrote Exactly what I was thinking.

(05 Sep 2014, 8:19 pm)Dan wrote If the current M2/M3 and W5/W6 services were to receive investment (which is incredibly unlikely when there are more deserving services), changes would be made in-line with the new arrivals, so as to avoid any potential customer confusion. Just look at what happened with the Connections4.

A decision on Quality Contracts is expected next month, and I have a feeling that this is when Go North East will confirm their orders with Go-Ahead.

(05 Sep 2014, 8:22 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote Wonder if Go North East are acting on the Email I sent them a few weeks ago in regards to these Services

And a Question for Dan or Anyone else who may know.

Can Go North East not put there Vehicle Orders into The Go-Ahead Group bit by bit?

For example lets say an Order for 8 Enviro 400MMC's for the X21, Which are Expected before the End of November has already been Submitted, But as Go North East are Pondering what Vehicles to Purchase for other Services i.e. Lime/Toonlink and X66, Those Orders have yet to be Submitted, Meaning said Vehicles won't be due to be Delivered until early 2015.

(05 Sep 2014, 8:25 pm)aureolin wrote 9th October to be exact - at the next NECA Transport meeting.

(05 Sep 2014, 8:00 pm)Michael wrote With the M2/M2A/M3/M3A/W5/W6 changing numbers at start of November maybe they will get new buses, just like when the M1 changed to the 4...


It looks like

M2/M2A/M3/M3A will become 82/82A/83/83A

W5/W6 will become 85/86

(05 Sep 2014, 8:42 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote The 4 changed mid October (20th), which is roughly 6 weeks from now.

(05 Sep 2014, 8:33 pm)Dan wrote It would be unusual for this to happen, and I highly doubt it has happened. Like I say, I think we'll see the orders confirmed next month when Go North East have a clearer idea of what may be happening in the future...


Just to link this in with speculation in the "Latest" threads, which I have said is true, planned investment for the "Pronto" could quite easily coincide with the rumoured plans to move National Express operations to Riverside Depot.

Moving Coaching operations to Riverside delivers cost savings from the perspective of light mileage, and I'd imagine would also allow for slightly shorter duties, and hence could deliver cost savings here too? If these coaches move out of Chester-le-Street, there's going to be a gap to fill at said depot.

This part is speculation from me, and not to be taken as concrete. If there's a gap to fill at Chester-le-Street, this could easily be filled by Crook's operations. It's unlikely that Go North East is going to want to house brand new vehicles at an outstation which mightn't have the facilities available at a normal company-owned depot. Although light mileage would increase for the likes of service 18, service X21 could easily undergo service changes so that Crook's operations could move to Chester-le-Street with little to no light mileage. The savings from closing Crook would probably outweigh the light mileage costs, and I'd imagine this would provide Group with a greater incentive to accept the capital expenditure 'bids'. This post suggested that something similar has happened in the past, and it's entirely possible it could happen again...

Timeframe? Well, the New Year would be a good start. Assuming it takes approximately two months to manufacture new buses, and the bid is put in soon after the date quoted above, why not..?

(05 Sep 2014, 8:43 pm)Michael wrote Nearly a year already =0

(05 Sep 2014, 8:57 pm)Robert wrote Just because a service number is changing it doesnt mean new buses will be purchased. The Solars on the M1 were ageing so needed to be placed on less mainstream routes like the Waggonway and as spares.

(05 Sep 2014, 8:33 pm)Dan wrote It would be unusual for this to happen, and I highly doubt it has happened. Like I say, I think we'll see the orders confirmed next month when Go North East have a clearer idea of what may be happening in the future...


Just to link this in with speculation in the "Latest" threads, which I have said is true, planned investment for the "Pronto" could quite easily coincide with the rumoured plans to move National Express operations to Riverside Depot.

Moving Coaching operations to Riverside delivers cost savings from the perspective of light mileage, and I'd imagine would also allow for slightly shorter duties, and hence could deliver cost savings here too? If these coaches move out of Chester-le-Street, there's going to be a gap to fill at said depot.

This part is speculation from me, and not to be taken as concrete. If there's a gap to fill at Chester-le-Street, this could easily be filled by Crook's operations. It's unlikely that Go North East is going to want to house brand new vehicles at an outstation which mightn't have the facilities available at a normal company-owned depot. Although light mileage would increase for the likes of service 18, service X21 could easily undergo service changes so that Crook's operations could move to Chester-le-Street with little to no light mileage. The savings from closing Crook would probably outweigh the light mileage costs, and I'd imagine this would provide Group with a greater incentive to accept the capital expenditure 'bids'. This post suggested that something similar has happened in the past, and it's entirely possible it could happen again...

Timeframe? Well, the New Year would be a good start. Assuming it takes approximately two months to manufacture new buses, and the bid is put in soon after the date quoted above, why not..?

(05 Sep 2014, 9:09 pm)RGR756V wrote I do wish people would not speculate on depots/outstations closing. If Crook were to close it would put me, and 85% of my colleagues, at a major disadvantage.

We had to put up with these rumours when the OK1 was withdrawn. If anything, I would anticipate Crook would regain some evening/Sunday work when the time comes for the B7s to be replaced. After all, the initial reason for us being there was to minimise dead mileage off the old 21. Granted, that does not currently happen but there is a reason for that, which I'm not fully sure of the answer to.

As for not putting new buses into an outstation, please remind me of the allocation of Consett.....

(05 Sep 2014, 9:19 pm)Dan wrote This is a thread which is designed for speculation, after all, isn't it? I certainly did say it wasn't 'to be taken as concrete', though it would deliver cost savings and as such, it's something that shouldn't be considered irrational.

I've seen comments on Facebook that Go North East's National Express operations will not move to Riverside, but let's see..! If the National Express staff are 'being put at a disadvantage' to deliver cost savings to the company by moving operations to another depot, why can't this happen at Crook? Isn't it management who have the ultimate say in this matter?

Slightly different story at Consett... Go North East had no other option but to invest into brand new minibuses, to replace the oldest minibuses in the fleet which had exceeded their "shelf lives", in order to gain the maximum amount of money which they could from these vehicles. They chose Consett, as this depot was presumably delivering the highest profit levels in terms of minibus operations. With Crook, they have the option to cascade other buses down, but it doesn't look like this will happen!

(05 Sep 2014, 9:40 pm)RGR756V wrote Yeah, speculate on what vehicles may be purchased, but what you and others may not realise is that a few of my colleagues have a nosey on here and once they see remarks like that then the rumour mill starts again, and the morale levels dip again. A daily commute to Chester would be a long and expensive one for myself and, as I said, about 85% of my colleagues, and isn't an especially inviting proposition.

Anyway.....my thoughts is that the X1 would receive any new vehicle investment, with the resultant cascade of B9s being made to Crook for the Pronto, and Stanley for the old West Durham Swift services.

(05 Sep 2014, 9:40 pm)RGR756V wrote Yeah, speculate on what vehicles may be purchased, but what you and others may not realise is that a few of my colleagues have a nosey on here and once they see remarks like that then the rumour mill starts again, and the morale levels dip again. A daily commute to Chester would be a long and expensive one for myself and, as I said, about 85% of my colleagues, and isn't an especially inviting proposition.

Anyway.....my thoughts is that the X1 would receive any new vehicle investment, with the resultant cascade of B9s being made to Crook for the Pronto, and Stanley for the old West Durham Swift services.

(05 Sep 2014, 9:40 pm)RGR756V wrote Yeah, speculate on what vehicles may be purchased, but what you and others may not realise is that a few of my colleagues have a nosey on here and once they see remarks like that then the rumour mill starts again, and the morale levels dip again. A daily commute to Chester would be a long and expensive one for myself and, as I said, about 85% of my colleagues, and isn't an especially inviting proposition.

Anyway.....my thoughts is that the X1 would receive any new vehicle investment, with the resultant cascade of B9s being made to Crook for the Pronto, and Stanley for the old West Durham Swift services.

(05 Sep 2014, 9:44 pm)Tom wrote Doubt the X1 will recieve investment truthfully. The older vehicles are only three years old, with the newer ones on two!

(05 Sep 2014, 9:50 pm)Dan wrote I know who the majority of members are on here, as I typically go through each new member's profile to ensure they're 'legit'. Only a tiny percentage remain anonymous, and an even smaller percentage successfully remain anonymous - aureolin pointed out earlier that some people aren't very good at it!

I understand your concerns as an employee at Crook; but as you can imagine, if profits go up as a result of the movement of a depot's operations, it's a very appealing proposal for management to make.

A vigorous 90-day consultation period would take place prior to the movement of operations and associated closures, and this is the time when I'd imagine that Trade Unions would get involved to convey your (and your colleagues') messages to management, and to possibly come to some sort of agreement during the consultation period.

Chester-le-Street currently houses 28 coaches for National Express (although some are obviously away overnight etc), but if they all moved out to Riverside, there would be more than enough room for Crook's operations to move in. From management's point of view opposed to yours, as an employee at Crook, you'd be mad if you couldn't actually see that. There are a shedload of advantages to the company that would come with this merger, which is why I imagine it's not something that should be palmed off as an idea which isn't ever going to happen.

I assume your example in the past of this happening was with Arriva? Who's to say Go North East aren't going to follow in a similar footpath?

(05 Sep 2014, 10:18 pm)RGR756V wrote I have approached my manager in the recent past about the possibility of coaching moving to Riverside, and the consequence for Crook as a result, but the social media policy that I have signed to restricts me to keeping the inner depths of those conversations to myself, in short though, the answer was "no"!

(05 Sep 2014, 10:18 pm)RGR756V wrote Oh I can see the advantages to the company in moving our work to Chester, I'm not as green as you and others may think. Yes I've been through a depot closure before and the upheavals it caused were immense, the effects of which are still felt nearly 5 years down the line by some former colleagues, however in that case it is pretty much seen as a bad decision, though that is by-the-by now.

Believe it or not, were it not for the performance of service 18 then I do think that Crook would have closed last year with the demise of the OK1.
Crook was there to cut the dead mileage on the 21/X21 and it works, and as I suggested, when the newer stuff comes, in whatever shape it is, we will regain a working on an evening and Sunday which would more than likely entail us doing the last bus finishing at Bishop.

You have to remember as well, the facilities we use at Crook are much better than what Consett and Peterlee have - there is no need for a fitter to visit every morning as Weardale are contracted to do all the light oily stuff if needed.

As for a 90 day consultation, that would not apply in our case as we are an outstation, and merely classed as an extra rota in the Chester operations. When OK1 finished, there were a surplus of drivers that merely volunteered to go to Chester, however if there were no volunteers, then apparently a system was in place which worked on seniority. The bulk of those drivers bar 1 lived in the Durham area and made sense for them to transfer. There was little TU involvement.

As one of the supervisors, I like to try and keep the lads spirits up as, at the end of the day, we need to keep and gain more passengers from Arriva, and I don't want them going on the road with that sort of worry hanging over them - as you correctly predicted, I have been there before and still have the t-shirt! The new College special has actually been a bit of a boost because it has shown to us that the company is still looking for ways to expand in Bishop, despite having our fingers burned with the OK1, even though the lads on the front line could not have done much more than they did.

I have approached my manager in the recent past about the possibility of coaching moving to Riverside, and the consequence for Crook as a result, but the social media policy that I have signed to restricts me to keeping the inner depths of those conversations to myself, in short though, the answer was "no"!

(05 Sep 2014, 10:30 pm)aureolin wrote On a more positive note I'd actually love to see Crook expand. Simply because I'd like to see them give Arriva some real competition in Durham again.

(05 Sep 2014, 10:36 pm)Dan wrote I'm still a huge advocate of the Durham - Middlesbrough service suggestion. Would also like to see a Hartlepool - Middlesbrough service (if it could differ from SNE's service 1), and similar services to integrate the transport in the North East.

(05 Sep 2014, 10:26 pm)Dan wrote With the intention of putting this to bed, as I think we've covered all the ground we could ever cover now, and we've both gotten our points of view across...

All I have to say about the above quote; is that although I'm not restricted to a Social Media policy, I'm also restricted to what I can say, and there's no point me trying to convince anyone otherwise if they don't believe me. Obviously, you and I are on different pages, and we'll see what happens later this year. I'm pretty confident that it's going to happen, and I'll look like the tit if it doesn't - but that shouldn't be the case, and hasn't happened in the past a great deal either.

NEB no longer (to my knowledge) has the reputation of being a 'fantasy island forum', and if it does, it shouldn't. Certainly for one company in particular (we all know which one), I know a hell of a lot of information is given on the public domain way before it should be - which is why a good percentage of senior management are all members of the forum, though remain anonymous and rarely (if ever) post. That speaks volumes, in my opinion.

(05 Sep 2014, 10:41 pm)RGR756V wrote If Coaching moves to Riverside, then so be it, and I know that it would be a lot better up there as the facilities and location are infinitely better than Chester.

If Crook moves as a result.....well two answers from my viewpoint. Employee's head hopes it doesn't, because my fuel bill will rocket.

Enthusiast's head hopes it doesn't, because it's nice to see a bit of variety in Bishop, and as long as we are based there, we will always be a worry to Arriva (which amuses me-I bear a very large chip on my shoulder regarding the way I and others were treated when Bishop closed), and I do think there is still potential to expand in Bishop and the surrounding area. Arriva clearly think that, hence they increased the frequency on the 6 and 46. GNE do play their cards very close to their chest - we only officially found out Crook was opening about 6 weeks before it did, despite planning going back way, way further than that.

To answer Aureolin, there are 16 drivers currently based at Crook....

(05 Sep 2014, 10:39 pm)aureolin wrote I'm convinced a limited stop rival to the X1 would work, perhaps even linking with Pronto X21 at Durham towards Newcastle.

(05 Sep 2014, 10:47 pm)RGR756V wrote I'm thinking of a Darlington-Newcastle express, where the only competition is the very expensive train, and the location of Darlington station is not exactly in the town centre.

I know it's been done before but the constraint of EU regs have resulted in the demise of such services. Nowadays, with the loophole of 'splitting' services, which is something GNE do with the X7, I think it's a worthwhile punt.

(05 Sep 2014, 10:50 pm)Michael wrote Won't be long before they close that loop hole.

(05 Sep 2014, 10:47 pm)RGR756V wrote I'm thinking of a Darlington-Newcastle express, where the only competition is the very expensive train, and the location of Darlington station is not exactly in the town centre.

I know it's been done before but the constraint of EU regs have resulted in the demise of such services. Nowadays, with the loophole of 'splitting' services, which is something GNE do with the X7, I think it's a worthwhile punt.