(16 Sep 2020, 5:24 pm)Storx wrote I disagree with this personally I don't think any bus company in their own company shouldn't have duplicate numbers with an express and a non express service. It's not a bad assumption to assume an X1 is an express version of their 1, or the X10 is an express version of their 10 (ignoring common sense). Between other operators then fair enough but there's 99 numbers GNE could use (if you want to keep it 2 digits) without having an X1 and 1 and X10 and 10 running from the same bus stations (or nearby).

In terms of the 10, I quite like the way Trent Barton have done it for their 'nines' routes where it's 9.1 and 9.3 (used to be a 9.2 which got scrapped - don't have the gap). Could work well for the 10's 10.1 to Hexham, 10.2 for the 10A and 10.3 for the 10B

In terms of GNE, Arriva and Stagecoach is there any services which have the same number running from the same bus stop / station in Tyne and Wear, can't think of any tbh.

(16 Sep 2020, 8:01 pm)col87 wrote A few service suggestions which I think could work some of which I have posted before. 

Tyne and Wear

The Angel split into two services, the 21 as it is to Durham but reduced to every 20 minutes with new service 22 running to Chester le Street but running via what I think is  called Harlow Green and Wrekenton.  Both would combine to give a 10 minute frequency between Newcastle the Angel and Chester Le Street.   

Some X22 journeys to extend to Bishop Auckland on a trail basis. Would combine with X21 to give Go North East more services in the Bishop Auckland area. 

Service X55

Newcastle to Hartlepool

A new service bringing Go North East back into Hartlepool.  Service would be hourly until 7PM.  Would operate via  Hart Village the A19 Washington and Metro centre. 

Service X56

Would operate hourly as an express version of the Fab 56 but will also serve Washington Galleries.  Both the X55 and X56  combine to bring an additional half hourly service between Washington and Newcastle. X55 also restores a service between Washington and the metro centre. 

Tees Valley and Country Durham. 

Service X6 restored to once again serve Hartlepool. This would once again give passengers a service between Hartlepool and Seaham.   

Service X7.  The X7 will also be restored to operate once again to Middlesbrough. To improve journey times this will no longer serve Seaham and will instead operate direct to Sunderland from Peterlee via Dalton Park.   
Passengers can instead use the improved X6 or local indigo services. 

New Service X11 Middlesbrough - Bishop Auckland 

New Service X11 will once again see a direct service between Middlesbrough and Bishop Auckland. 

The service will operate via Teesside Park, Stockton High Street, Norton , North Tees Hospital, Stillington  Sedgefield and Ferryhill.  The service will operate hourly.

(16 Sep 2020, 6:36 pm)Storx wrote Ah yeah forgot about that one, very recent though.


Okay maybe there is a few then I knew about the two 40's though it's what got me thinking about it. Noticable that it's all caused by GNE.

(16 Sep 2020, 5:24 pm)Storx wrote I disagree with this personally I don't think any bus company in their own company shouldn't have duplicate numbers with an express and a non express service. It's not a bad assumption to assume an X1 is an express version of their 1, or the X10 is an express version of their 10 (ignoring common sense). Between other operators then fair enough but there's 99 numbers GNE could use (if you want to keep it 2 digits) without having an X1 and 1 and X10 and 10 running from the same bus stations (or nearby).

In terms of the 10, I quite like the way Trent Barton have done it for their 'nines' routes where it's 9.1 and 9.3 (used to be a 9.2 which got scrapped - don't have the gap). Could work well for the 10's 10.1 to Hexham, 10.2 for the 10A and 10.3 for the 10B

In terms of GNE, Arriva and Stagecoach is there any services which have the same number running from the same bus stop / station in Tyne and Wear, can't think of any tbh.

(17 Sep 2020, 9:12 am)ASX_Terranova wrote Wish they'd do something about metrocentre no direct services from south tyneside, east durham, sunderland or washington & houghton

New Services X2/X2A Sunderland - Southwick - Enterprise Park - Castletown - Waterview Park - Sulgrave - Concord - Washington Galleries - Team Valley (X2A) -  Metrocentre - Newcastle
These Services will replace nexus 73, 939 & 939A

(17 Sep 2020, 9:59 am)tcts24 wrote In 38 years of being alive, at no point do I ever remember assuming 2 different services went to the same places because of similarities in route number. When I was a child, United service 10 from Middlesbrough went to Hartlepool, United and Northern joint service X10 went to Newcastle (as it still does), so it's nothing new.

Route numbers exist for customers to differentiate between what bus goes where. Stood in Sunderland and looking for a bus to Souter Lighthouse, having buses with only a destination of "South Shields" on it's and no number isn't too helpful as they all take seperate routes. As they're numbered either 20, E1, E2, or E6, then it's easy to identify that I'd need to be on the E1 to South Shields. Those four routes could respectively be numbered 974, 74G, EGY74 and D74J and it would would make no difference at all, because I'd still know which bus I'd need to catch to Souter Lighthouse, regardless of whatever route identifier it's displaying.

The use of dots and dashes is novel, but could potentially cause the confusion your trying to avoid between a 1.1 and 11. The use of alphanumeric indentifiers for route variations are more legible on a destination board.

And suggesting that it's "fair enough" for seperate operators to number their routes similarly is bizarre. From my experience of talking to people, the average person on the street can not identify one operator from another. This is especially relevant when dealing with Go-Ahead, who constantly swap and change routes, route numbers, bus colours (both inside and out) and bus types. While you and I can tell the difference, the only non bus spotters that'll care about the two service 8's in Sunderland are those that use them and they will already know whether they need to be on a 8 to Stanley or an 8 to South Hylton. On average, the colour of the bus or who's name is plastered across the side of it won't matter in the slightest and probably won't even get noticed.

(17 Sep 2020, 10:33 am)Storx wrote Some people are extremely stupid though and don't bother to read destinations properly. That wasn't a comment directed at you, this was directed at the people who can't read a basic timetable and those who get on a 21 to Chester Le Street and ask if it goes to Durham for 2 examples. There will be some idiots who see X10 and think oh that must be the 10 and it doesn't help when GNE add X's to routes for no reason bar branding reasons (X5, X15, X45, X46, X47). There's enough numbers around there's no need for a 1 and X1, 10 and X10 when it's not needed.

That's a valid point with the 1 and one I didn't think of, maybe only use it where there is no service with the same number so with the 10's it could work.

You misinterpretated the comment on using the same numbers I meant in the sense that in the whole of GNE, numbers shouldn't duplicate anywhere so every route should be different, the same with Arriva Northumbria / North East (they're two different companies as they're not connected) and Stagecoach's each little area nor should there be an express of a bus route has a local service of the same number. There certainly should be no duplicates in the same bus station or town though but the fact GNE have a 57 in Gateshead and Arriva have a 57 in Whitley then there's no issue there as their far enough apart or even the example such as the GNE 47 and Stagecoach X47 in Eldon Square (the two X47's is stupid though). It wouldn't be sensible to ban the same number everywhere in the North East.

(17 Sep 2020, 10:33 am)Storx wrote Some people are extremely stupid though and don't bother to read destinations properly. That wasn't a comment directed at you, this was directed at the people who can't read a basic timetable and those who get on a 21 to Chester Le Street and ask if it goes to Durham for 2 examples. There will be some idiots who see X10 and think oh that must be the 10 and it doesn't help when GNE add X's to routes for no reason bar branding reasons (X5, X15, X45, X46, X47). There's enough numbers around there's no need for a 1 and X1, 10 and X10 when it's not needed.

That's a valid point with the 1 and one I didn't think of, maybe only use it where there is no service with the same number so with the 10's it could work.

You misinterpretated the comment on using the same numbers I meant in the sense that in the whole of GNE, numbers shouldn't duplicate anywhere so every route should be different, the same with Arriva Northumbria / North East (they're two different companies as they're not connected) and Stagecoach's each little area nor should there be an express of a bus route has a local service of the same number. There certainly should be no duplicates in the same bus station or town though but the fact GNE have a 57 in Gateshead and Arriva have a 57 in Whitley then there's no issue there as their far enough apart or even the example such as the GNE 47 and Stagecoach X47 in Eldon Square (the two X47's is stupid though). It wouldn't be sensible to ban the same number everywhere in the North East.

(17 Sep 2020, 12:06 pm)tcts24 wrote I'm fairly certain I didn't misinterpret. Provided the number and ultimate destination combined is different i.e. from Sunderland city centre one could catch a 23 to Dene Estate, Thorney Close or Hartlepool or one could get a 55, X6 or X7 to Peterlee. Renumbering the 10 from Newcastle so it doesn't look to similarly numbered to the X10 doesn't matter. They go in completely opposite directions and nobody could possibly get confused between them unless they are too thick or ingnorant to figure that out. If somebody can't or doesn't want to comprehend that not all buses go to the same places, then no elaberate numbering system will make a scrap of difference.

I was astonded during last years Arriva strike, how many people on Facebook couldn't grasp that the handful of buses that were running would stop between the listed timing points - as the normally would - despite stating this at the top of the post. No amount of telling some of them, "yes it will stop outside your house like it usually does" would sink in.

(17 Sep 2020, 12:06 pm)tcts24 wrote I'm fairly certain I didn't misinterpret. Provided the number and ultimate destination combined is different i.e. from Sunderland city centre one could catch a 23 to Dene Estate, Thorney Close or Hartlepool or one could get a 55, X6 or X7 to Peterlee. Renumbering the 10 from Newcastle so it doesn't look to similarly numbered to the X10 doesn't matter. They go in completely opposite directions and nobody could possibly get confused between them unless they are too thick or ingnorant to figure that out. If somebody can't or doesn't want to comprehend that not all buses go to the same places, then no elaberate numbering system will make a scrap of difference.

I was astonded during last years Arriva strike, how many people on Facebook couldn't grasp that the handful of buses that were running would stop between the listed timing points - as the normally would - despite stating this at the top of the post. No amount of telling some of them, "yes it will stop outside your house like it usually does" would sink in.

(17 Sep 2020, 5:59 pm)Ianthegoon wrote With reference to the comment about not reading destinations properly:
A friend of mine bought a minibus from the local bus company, intending to do it up as a camper van.  Just before Christmas, we decorated it with light, trees and baubles, set the destination blind to read "Straight to Cuba", no route number, and drove it along our town's High Street, past all the bus stops.  We were astonished just how many people stepped out to try and board - remember, no route number and a silly destination!

(18 Sep 2020, 1:53 am)Big O wrote Maybe to have the XLines routes re-blinded as "XL10" or XL47 to separate the brand further and avoid confusion, I think it would be quite different to anything anyone would have ever seen on their blinds too.

I think collectively, all the operators could come together and amicably agree to note have duplicates, its quite ridiculous, you have a 1 to Whitley Bay and a 1 to Cobalt both using the same road. If someone asks you if the 1 goes to Cobalt, you'd have to ask them which 1?! I know its a pipe dream but duplicate numbers should be a thing of the past. Trying to drive up patronage is as much about simplifying the customer experience as it is "jazzing it up". Reminds me of the 42 in Manchester years back which had; whereby you had to get the correct ticket for the bus that was coming and there were well over 5 operators on that route.

I have to agree with Streetdeckfan too in regards to the 10A, can't they renumber the 10A to the 11. From an enthusiast point of view, the 45/46/47 shouldn't be XLines but I do see the business case for it, they spend a lot of their time travelling on the 40/50mph A694 with far spaced out stops, they're also the quickest (only) way to the parts of town they serve.

(18 Sep 2020, 2:02 am)streetdeckfan wrote Not sure if it ran exactly the same route, but I'm fairly certain the 10A replaced the 11!

(18 Sep 2020, 1:19 am)Bazza wrote Why is this any different or any better than using 10, 10A & 10B ?

(18 Sep 2020, 7:30 am)Storx wrote Just personally think it looks better and it gives the idea that all three routes are as important as each other and go to different places. When you use A and B I'd think of them to be variations of a route ie go a different way as others have said but end in the same place or that the 10 is the main route and the A and B are occasional diversions which are infrequent and unimportant. Just differentiates it a bit to show they don't do that. But because of the 10.X it also shows that there is a common section at the same time.

Its also quite unique and would look good for the 10 branding in similar sense to 'The Nines'.

(19 Sep 2020, 5:05 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote Hexham to Stanhope/Crook

(19 Sep 2020, 5:05 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote Hexham to Stanhope/Crook

(19 Sep 2020, 9:54 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote Could there be any scope in extending Team Valley works into Newcastle.

(20 Sep 2020, 10:55 am)big mac wrote I think send the 93 and 94 over there.

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(20 Sep 2020, 10:55 am)big mac wrote I think send the 93 and 94 over there.

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