(09 Jul 2014, 7:31 pm)Mark wrote That is right, we should see all the non-LED blinds disappear by the end of this year using the units removed from the predicted disposals.

As far as all-round white LED's it is believed that white rear LED's could raise issues due to the showing of white light on the rear of a vehicle. This is a similar issue going back to the 80's when Rapide coaches had red destination blinds on the coaches until they were forced to change them, or remove destination lights due to showing a red light at the front of a vehicle. Strange but true!

P7090002.JPG (Size 79.09 KB | Downloads 28)

(09 Jul 2014, 7:43 pm)Dan wrote What issues would those be?

I wouldn't imagine Hanover would sell rear destination displays in white if it would raise issues for the bus companies?

Although the ones First Eastern Counties use on their Enviro400s allocated to service X1 may not be provided by Hanover (someone may be able to confirm this one, as I'm not sure), they have rear white destination displays and I'd imagine if GNE go for white as standard in this year's orders, they'll go for white all-around.

https://flic.kr/p/hXL4je

(09 Jul 2014, 8:23 pm)VolvoMarkII wrote The issue is, that it is an offence under law to show Red light on the front of a vehicle and White light (unless reversing) on the rear.

(09 Jul 2014, 8:24 pm)Dan wrote How has First gotten away with it..?
How has Go North East gotten away with it..? They show/ed red squares as backgrounds for their numbers.

(09 Jul 2014, 8:47 pm)G-CPTN wrote These things fester away until some smart vehicle examiner (or would-be hero cop) challenges it and tests it in court - just as some driver-training organisations used oversize L-plates until it was pointed out that they were illegal.

(09 Jul 2014, 8:52 pm)Dan wrote Let's not forget that the white roller blinds on TfL vehicles and Lothian Buses vehicles will all be lit up at night, and hence could be argued as providing white light.

Operators up and down the country have white rear destinations, so there must be a workaround to this alleged "law", because as I've said previously, those who manufacture these destination displays just wouldn't do it if it meant that bus operators were going to turn around and have to replace them. I also doubt that bus operators would incur the additional cost of buying white opposed to amber if they had even the slightest incline that it was illegal and there was a chance they'd have to remove them - not only would it tarnish their reputation, but there's also a chance that the manufacturers wouldn't refund the difference.

Section 11, Point 2, Subpoint G quotes;

No vehicle shall be fitted with a lamp which is capable of showing any light to the rear, other than a red light, except–

(g)in the case of a bus, light for the purposes of illuminating a route indicator;

(09 Jul 2014, 9:11 pm)VolvoMarkII wrote Its not an 'alleged law'. Stop being arrogant about it. You asked the question and you got an answer. Look up the The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989.


This may allow use of white lit destination screens at the rear, but it does quite specifically state that light for purposes of illuminating a route indicator (in the case of London rollerblinds). It makes no mention of the white light being the actual route indicator.

Its open to interpretation and as already suggested, it may only take one very particular vehicle examiner to decide said vehicle is not conforming to regulations.

(09 Jul 2014, 9:11 pm)VolvoMarkII wrote Its not an 'alleged law'. Stop being arrogant about it. You asked the question and you got an answer. Look up the The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989.


This may allow use of white lit destination screens at the rear, but it does quite specifically state that light for purposes of illuminating a route indicator (in the case of London rollerblinds). It makes no mention of the white light being the actual route indicator.

Its open to interpretation and as already suggested, it may only take one very particular vehicle examiner to decide said vehicle is not conforming to regulations.

(09 Jul 2014, 9:15 pm)Dan wrote Sorry if I've misinterpreted the quote you gave, but if red light is the only permitted form of light, how are 'normal' coloured LEDs acceptable?

(09 Jul 2014, 9:20 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote Red is used at the rear of a vehicle to indicate braking or if the vehicles lights are switched on.
White, is obviously at the front of a vehicle.

Anything which has the potential to clash or cause confusion to a fellow road user or pedestrian, is not allowed.

(09 Jul 2014, 9:15 pm)Dan wrote Sorry if I've misinterpreted the quote you gave, but if red light is the only permitted form of light, how are 'normal' coloured LEDs acceptable?

(09 Jul 2014, 9:23 pm)VolvoMarkII wrote Again, not sure. I suspect it is all open to interpretation.

I think the issue of White light LED on the rear is more prominent, as compared to Orange LED, you only expect to find White light at the front of a vehicle (unless of course it is reversing).

[NEGATIVE SQUARED LATIN CAPITAL LETTER B]But, it may well be that under that quote, any form of LED is acceptable nowadays as 'illuminating a route indicator'.

I fully agree that no company will be using White rear LED sets with knowledge that they may be illegal.[/B] I suspect all that are fitted, are done with good intention and where they are not, either a mix of cost appreciation (Orange LED sets are cheaper!) or a particularly over cautious operator!

(09 Jul 2014, 10:38 pm)JoshP wrote The Solos used on Durham P&R and coming to Darlington, are they a shorter length than the standard Solos already in service in Darlo/Durham/Newcastle but longer than the ex-classic Solo's?

(09 Jul 2014, 9:22 pm)Dan wrote I do think I have misinterpreted the quote given.

I narrowed it down to destination displays only, opposed to the entirety of the rear of the vehicle.

If it is not limited to the destination display, then don't all LED destination displays - regardless of colour - provide light and therefore break this rule?

(10 Jul 2014, 7:33 am)Andreos Constantopolous wrote Do the displays cause confusion?
As a driver myself, I don't think they do.

Picking up on the point made about selling things which unintentionally illegal for use on the road - the Fast & Furious type led strips used on cars have been deemed to contravene various laws, yet are still sold.

As quoted in a well known Charles Dickens novel - "The law is an ass".

(10 Jul 2014, 11:54 am)Andreos Constantopolous wrote http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/content.aspx?id=34359743164
New fares for students in Northumberland, following funding shortfalls.

(10 Jul 2014, 12:57 pm)G-CPTN wrote That's interesting (for me) as I have been following the topic through Northumberland County Council announcements.

As many will know, students (over 16) will have to bear the whole cost of travel if they can use public transport and £600 if they use local authority dedicated school-only services. AFAIK, this applies to all journeys - even if the cost is less than £600 (?)

Apparently, there are 91 students travelling from Berwick to Newcastle, costing NCC £400,000. That's over £4000 each . . .

(10 Jul 2014, 1:07 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote The pdf attachment is corrupted so wont open on my phone - presumably the price quoted on the website is the cheapest option.
Those travelling some distance (like the students in Berwick), will need to pay more.

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(10 Jul 2014, 1:41 pm)Tom wrote Just noticed this on the website - so the 46/52/53 is getting a brand?

(10 Jul 2014, 4:36 pm)Tom wrote 43 doesn't even interwork with the 52 and 53.

And here: http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/content.aspx?id=34359743169

(10 Jul 2014, 4:40 pm)V514DFT wrote I think you will find it does,43 gets to cramlington then changes in to the 52/53,occasionally there have been cases where the 52 has changed to the 43 at haymarket,but mainly its at cramlington