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+--- Thread: Landmark Levelling Up Fund (/showthread.php?tid=4219)
RE: Landmark Levelling Up Fund - Adrian - 02 Feb 2023
(01 Feb 2023, 11:58 am)Michael wrote Stagecoach set to expand autonomous vehicle trials more widely with government funding announced for new projects
https://m.stagecoachgroup.com/media/news-releases/2023/2023-02-01.aspx
This is something that we should all be very wary of. The likes of Stagecoach aren't pushing ahead with autonomous vehicles merely because the technology is available or it's a good thing, it's because it reduces (and eventually removes) their most expensive overhead - labour.
From their point of view, they'll be looking at why they have one person to drive every bus, when you could have one or two people remotely monitoring a handful of them. It's not too dissimilar to what supermarkets have done, where instead of having 30 checkouts, they've got one or two people monitoring 30 self-service checkouts.
In an area like Sunderland, the bus operators combined will likely be second only to Nissan, in the amount of local people that they employ. If you start to reduce or remove that work, where are the alternative opportunities for unskilled or semi-skilled workers? Of course, it's not only about keeping bus workers in jobs, it's also the knock on impact that reducing the reliance on jobs has on the local economy. If people don't have money, then there's no money for goods and services.
I'd hope the Unions are in discussions with the employers around the future of this technology.
RE: Landmark Levelling Up Fund - Rob44 - 02 Feb 2023
(02 Feb 2023, 11:00 am)Adrian wrote This is something that we should all be very wary of. The likes of Stagecoach aren't pushing ahead with autonomous vehicles merely because the technology is available or it's a good thing, it's because it reduces (and eventually removes) their most expensive overhead - labour.
From their point of view, they'll be looking at why they have one person to drive every bus, when you could have one or two people remotely monitoring a handful of them. It's not too dissimilar to what supermarkets have done, where instead of having 30 checkouts, they've got one or two people monitoring 30 self-service checkouts.
In an area like Sunderland, the bus operators combined will likely be second only to Nissan, in the amount of local people that they employ. If you start to reduce or remove that work, where are the alternative opportunities for unskilled or semi-skilled workers? Of course, it's not only about keeping bus workers in jobs, it's also the knock on impact that reducing the reliance on jobs has on the local economy. If people don't have money, then there's no money for goods and services.
I'd hope the Unions are in discussions with the employers around the future of this technology.
I'm sure SCNE will reduce fare significantly if more and more self drive buses are brought in!
RE: Landmark Levelling Up Fund - Unber43 - 02 Feb 2023
I dont think I would get on a self-driving bus without a driver onboard unless its on a guided bus way
RE: Landmark Levelling Up Fund - Storx - 02 Feb 2023
(02 Feb 2023, 9:10 am)wibblejunior wrote I was on the 702 yesterday and it was full to the brim with university students. There's no way a 10-seat minibus would cope with that route.
The thing is it would. If there's no driver's then you could up the frequency at busy times and have say 5 of them running, then at quiet times take them off. It's only not possible now as you'd have driver's sitting around doing nothing so it's not really economically viable.
It would make a massive difference to a lot of services, the X66 is another noticeable one where it would work well on (obviously with bigger vehicles) where there's times it could be a minibus, but other times a double decker.
Obviously ignoring the staffing issues mentioned after which I agree with.
RE: Landmark Levelling Up Fund - Michael - 18 Feb 2023
(31 Jan 2023, 10:08 am)Shrek wrote So according to this article, the buses from the leveling up fund will be.
Stagecoach: 20 single decks for E1, E2 and E6
Arriva: 13 double and 1 single deck for 43, 44, 45 and 47
Go Ahead: 14 double decks for 21
https://www.route-one.net/news/52-more-battery-electric-buses-for-north-east-england/
Wonder if the Stagecoach electric buses will have WIFI and USB ports?
Although, they still haven't turned the WIFI back on for the Gas bus fleet......
RE: Landmark Levelling Up Fund - Storx - 18 Feb 2023
(18 Feb 2023, 8:24 pm)Michael wrote Wonder if the Stagecoach electric buses will have WIFI and USB ports?
Although, they still haven't turned the WIFI back on for the Gas bus fleet......
Doubt it WiFi it's utterly pointless and where they operate there's a good mobile signal throughout the route.
99% of people nowadays won't use bus WiFi over it as it's crap and the vast majority of people have data.
It's the reason why buses in London don't have it.
RE: Landmark Levelling Up Fund - Michael - 18 Feb 2023
(18 Feb 2023, 8:40 pm)Storx wrote Doubt it WiFi it's utterly pointless and where they operate there's a good mobile signal throughout the route.
99% of people nowadays won't use bus WiFi over it as it's crap and the vast majority of people have data.
It's the reason why buses in London don't have it.
That's true - hopefully they have USB's and stop announcements.
RE: Landmark Levelling Up Fund - Storx - 18 Feb 2023
(18 Feb 2023, 8:50 pm)Michael wrote That's true - hopefully they have USB's and stop announcements.
Aye the new ones in Inverness appear to have them so suggest they'll get them here aswell - https://www.stagecoachbus.com/news/north-scotland/2023/february/stagecoach-launch-uks-first-fully-electric-bus-network-in-inverness.
I'm surprised NSA's aren't law yet tbh for all new vehicles.
RE: Landmark Levelling Up Fund - Michael - 03 Mar 2023
Found this PDF last night:
Page 16:
Bus Charging Locations:
Arriva North East: NE6 2UT
Go North East: NE11 9DH
Stagecoach North East: SR5 1AQ
------------------
Project 1: Zero Emission Buses Preparation of the Economic case for project 1 has utilised the DfT Green Buses Model, some assumptions outside of the model have been applied and are set out below. Note financial numbers in the Green Bus Model are inclusive of a 10% risk contingency which have also been included in the financial case numbers.
Key Assumptions:
•Number of replaced vehicles 52, TNE (provided from Operators),Determined by operator’s schedules
•Annual average distance per vehicle, 107,000km, (calculated from operatorfleet schedules provided to TNE)
•Infrastructure maintenance costs (Chargers); 5% of CAPEX, Default ModelValue
•Average cost per electric bus, £367,695 Single Deck, £468,000 DoubleDeck, Supplied by Bus Operators from manufacturers quotes.•Cost of diesel bus, £185,000 Single Deck, £250,000 Double Deck (Suppliedby Bus Operators provided to TNE)
•Battery Replacement Costs, £3,739,707.51 (2032/33) Yr 8, (Supplied by Bus Operators provided to TNE)
•Electricity Costs, Default GBM Value (BEIS Profile)
^ Page 41
---------
The second factor relates to semi-conductor shortages which are expected to continue into 2023 following the impact of the global pandemic, shortages are compounded by surging demand due to expanding digitalization, and the increased use of 5G. The order for vehicles associated with project 1 is expected to be placed in early 2023 for delivery in 2024/25, meaning we can potentially avoid these delays; however, this remains uncertain.
Page 49
RE: Landmark Levelling Up Fund - Aaron21 - 03 Mar 2023
(03 Mar 2023, 7:46 pm)Michael wrote Found this PDF last night:Odd the Arriva one places the postcode near the Walkergate depot in Byker
Page 16:
Bus Charging Locations:
Arriva North East: NE6 2UT
Go North East: NE11 9DH
Stagecoach North East: SR5 1AQ
------------------
Project 1: Zero Emission Buses Preparation of the Economic case for project 1 has utilised the DfT Green Buses Model, some assumptions outside of the model have been applied and are set out below. Note financial numbers in the Green Bus Model are inclusive of a 10% risk contingency which have also been included in the financial case numbers.
Key Assumptions:
•Number of replaced vehicles 52, TNE (provided from Operators),Determined by operator’s schedules
•Annual average distance per vehicle, 107,000km, (calculated from operatorfleet schedules provided to TNE)
•Infrastructure maintenance costs (Chargers); 5% of CAPEX, Default ModelValue
•Average cost per electric bus, £367,695 Single Deck, £468,000 DoubleDeck, Supplied by Bus Operators from manufacturers quotes.•Cost of diesel bus, £185,000 Single Deck, £250,000 Double Deck (Suppliedby Bus Operators provided to TNE)
•Battery Replacement Costs, £3,739,707.51 (2032/33) Yr 8, (Supplied by Bus Operators provided to TNE)
•Electricity Costs, Default GBM Value (BEIS Profile)
^ Page 41
---------
The second factor relates to semi-conductor shortages which are expected to continue into 2023 following the impact of the global pandemic, shortages are compounded by surging demand due to expanding digitalization, and the increased use of 5G. The order for vehicles associated with project 1 is expected to be placed in early 2023 for delivery in 2024/25, meaning we can potentially avoid these delays; however, this remains uncertain.
Page 49
RE: Landmark Levelling Up Fund - Ianthegoon - 03 Mar 2023
(03 Mar 2023, 8:19 pm)Aaron21 wrote Odd the Arriva one places the postcode near the Walkergate depot in Byker
Well, Arriva North East are currently using the Stagecoach facility at Walkergate.
But the charging point seemed to be somewhere slightly different, back towards Newcastle, and not very far from the old depot at Byker.
RE: Landmark Levelling Up Fund - Unber43 - 03 Mar 2023
It could be a hint that Arriva might be making a new depot?
RE: Landmark Levelling Up Fund - RobinHood - 03 Mar 2023
That postcode is the general (although not exact) location of what was planned to be the new depot, that was cancelled.
I understand the electric infrastructure will instead be built into Blyth
RE: Landmark Levelling Up Fund - Storx - 03 Mar 2023
(03 Mar 2023, 9:20 pm)RobinHood wrote That postcode is the general (although not exact) location of what was planned to be the new depot, that was cancelled.
I understand the electric infrastructure will instead be built into Blyth
That confirmed? Seems extremely tight the new Blyth depot to have charging equipment around especially when now half the spaces are car parking spaces during the day for drivers.
On a side note, does anyone actually know what the plans for Walkergate are? It was assumed it was going to be Ashington, but there's still no sign of any form of planning for any extensions etc.
RE: Landmark Levelling Up Fund - Michael - 06 Mar 2023
The Department for Transport has confirmed £117.8m in new funding for buses in North East England as part of the National Bus Strategy.
North East Leaders have welcomed the news which backs the formation of a formal partnership between bus operators and councils to deliver major improvements for bus passengers, set out in the North East Bus Service Improvement Plan.
https://www.nexus.org.uk/news/item/region-welcomes-multi-million-pound-bus-improvement-funding
RE: Landmark Levelling Up Fund - Unber43 - 06 Mar 2023
I really hope Deptford gets some investment in the new bus funding, as it really needs it. And Hartlepool
RE: Landmark Levelling Up Fund - Michael - 06 Mar 2023
(06 Mar 2023, 8:54 pm)Unber43 wrote I really hope Deptford gets some investment in the new bus funding, as it really needs it. And Hartlepool
No doubt, £90m for Newcastle
Scraps for the rest of the North East.
RE: Landmark Levelling Up Fund - Unber43 - 06 Mar 2023
(06 Mar 2023, 8:59 pm)Michael wrote No doubt, £90m for NewcastleEveryone else will get newcastle scraps from the buses which have just been upgraded like always also as someone pointed out the latest electric bus routes have all had their frequency cut.
Scraps for the rest of the North East.
RE: Landmark Levelling Up Fund - Storx - 06 Mar 2023
The BSIP isn't for buying buses that's ZEBRA. Also Hartlepool isn't in the area at all so they 100% won't be getting anything from it.
RE: Landmark Levelling Up Fund - Unber43 - 06 Mar 2023
(06 Mar 2023, 9:25 pm)Storx wrote The BSIP isn't for buying buses that's ZEBRA.Last I checked ZEBRA you could only buy buses for new routes
RE: Landmark Levelling Up Fund - PH - BQA - 06 Mar 2023
(03 Mar 2023, 10:16 pm)Storx wrote That confirmed? Seems extremely tight the new Blyth depot to have charging equipment around especially when now half the spaces are car parking spaces during the day for drivers.
It's confirmed, they were being installed a couple of weeks back.
RE: Landmark Levelling Up Fund - Storx - 06 Mar 2023
(06 Mar 2023, 10:02 pm)mb134 wrote It's confirmed, they were being installed a couple of weeks back.
Surprised at that, seems tight enough as it is without chargers in the mix aswell. Where abouts they being installed? Curious.
RE: Landmark Levelling Up Fund - Michael - 10 Mar 2023
(03 Mar 2023, 7:46 pm)Michael wrote Found this PDF last night:
Page 16:
Bus Charging Locations:
Arriva North East: NE6 2UT
Go North East: NE11 9DH
Stagecoach North East: SR5 1AQ
------------------
Project 1: Zero Emission Buses Preparation of the Economic case for project 1 has utilised the DfT Green Buses Model, some assumptions outside of the model have been applied and are set out below. Note financial numbers in the Green Bus Model are inclusive of a 10% risk contingency which have also been included in the financial case numbers.
Key Assumptions:
•Number of replaced vehicles 52, TNE (provided from Operators),Determined by operator’s schedules
•Annual average distance per vehicle, 107,000km, (calculated from operatorfleet schedules provided to TNE)
•Infrastructure maintenance costs (Chargers); 5% of CAPEX, Default ModelValue
•Average cost per electric bus, £367,695 Single Deck, £468,000 DoubleDeck, Supplied by Bus Operators from manufacturers quotes.•Cost of diesel bus, £185,000 Single Deck, £250,000 Double Deck (Suppliedby Bus Operators provided to TNE)
•Battery Replacement Costs, £3,739,707.51 (2032/33) Yr 8, (Supplied by Bus Operators provided to TNE)
•Electricity Costs, Default GBM Value (BEIS Profile)
^ Page 41
---------
The second factor relates to semi-conductor shortages which are expected to continue into 2023 following the impact of the global pandemic, shortages are compounded by surging demand due to expanding digitalization, and the increased use of 5G. The order for vehicles associated with project 1 is expected to be placed in early 2023 for delivery in 2024/25, meaning we can potentially avoid these delays; however, this remains uncertain.
Page 49
Reading the PDF properly, and it looks like buses have to remain on the routes for 5 years, with no frequency cuts.
Still think 20 is far too many for just the E services, can't see Stagecoach wanting to keep 10 in the depot.
RE: Landmark Levelling Up Fund - Storx - 10 Mar 2023
(03 Mar 2023, 7:46 pm)Michael wrote •Annual average distance per vehicle, 107,000km, (calculated from operatorfleet schedules provided to TNE)
•Infrastructure maintenance costs (Chargers); 5% of CAPEX, Default ModelValue
•Average cost per electric bus, £367,695 Single Deck, £468,000 DoubleDeck, Supplied by Bus Operators from manufacturers quotes.•Cost of diesel bus, £185,000 Single Deck, £250,000 Double Deck (Suppliedby Bus Operators provided to TNE)
•Battery Replacement Costs, £3,739,707.51 (2032/33) Yr 8, (Supplied by Bus Operators provided to TNE)
•Electricity Costs, Default GBM Value (BEIS Profile)
Must say it's no wonder they're not being bought outside of funds considering they're more expensive to run pretty much aswell.
They're literally 2x the price for a single decker taking account of the mid life battery replacement of £75k. It'll be interesting to see if we'll end up seeing buses being ditched if that doesn't come down but the price of new buses are lower. Seems silly spending £80k on a bus when you can buy a new one for £185k (Diesel or maybe Hydrogen and that point) and get twice the life out of it but that's maybe just me.
RE: Landmark Levelling Up Fund - Michael - 16 Mar 2023
Just seen this in the buses magazine for April 2023
Durham Council outline, what they're going to use some of the £163.5m for.
RE: Landmark Levelling Up Fund - Unber43 - 16 Mar 2023
I hope Tyne & Wear & Co.Durham come together with some joint ticketing for all operators for like £6
RE: Landmark Levelling Up Fund - BusLoverMum - 16 Mar 2023
(16 Mar 2023, 8:59 pm)Unber43 wrote I hope Tyne & Wear & Co.Durham come together with some joint ticketing for all operators for like £6"multimodal tickets for various regional zones with a top price if £6.80"
RE: Landmark Levelling Up Fund - Michael - 29 Apr 2023
Any updates on what buses the companies have chosen for their routes, and when work will be begin installing the chargers at the Wheatsheaf and the Arriva depot?