(16 Jun 2023, 4:43 pm)Countydurhambuses wrote I'm surprised there isn't just a short bishop to west Auckland loop, most people from west Auckland seem to get off in bishop anyway

(16 Jun 2023, 4:55 pm)Jimmi wrote Think the main reason many of the services in and around Bishop Auckland are the way they are is due to neither of ANE and GNE having bases in or even near Bishop Auckland anymore, 6 & X21 certainly with them operating from Belmont and Riverside for the X21, granted Arriva has a depot in Darlington but only way you could really make anything work would be tagging a load of services into the interworking pattern with service 5, I imagine there is certainly some through traffic beyond Bishop Auckland Town Centre so probs about the best form they realistically could be.

(16 Jun 2023, 5:34 pm)Storx wrote To be fair Darlington is just as far time wise, both roughly 20 - 25 minutes away if using the bus station.

Let's be honest the place has been forgot about for the best part of 2 decades now ever since GNE pulled out. Half the routes were never replaced really. Some of the worst served areas around there, if I'm right didn't Newton Aycliffe actually win that 'award' relatively recently. Sure I can remember reading that sometime.

It's the sort of place on paper that should do well aswell really, can't imagine car usage is high at the place but I could be wrong. Always reminds me of Consett and Ashington which both have a much better service, mind Consett is starting to get debateable with the cut, cut, cut that's been happening there recently.

(16 Jun 2023, 6:00 pm)Michael wrote 3rd July 2023

PB0003954/1196
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED 683 Hexham Town Service Hexham Town Service

PB0003954/1194
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED 687 (687) Newbrough Hexham

PB0003954/1198
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED 684 (684) Hexham Newcastle

PB0003954/1391
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED 785 Hexham Haltwhistle

PB0003954/1263
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED X85 Hexham Newcastle

PB0003954/470
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED 688 (688) Hexham Allenheads

PB0003954/631
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED 680 Bellingham Hexham

(16 Jun 2023, 6:23 pm)Jimmi wrote Nah, we didn't win anything.

Bishop Auckland has been in decline for certain, Tindle Crescent is probs one of the main killers but the dire bus service certainly didn't help matters, Arriva acquired some absolutely dire motors when GNE pulled out then the closure of Arriva's depot in Bishop Auckland only caused much more of a downturn with services being messed about with, reliability wasn't great on some routes and it just wasn't cost effective for Arriva's worth while.

You can't help but wonder where things have gone so wrong, even just over 4 years ago Coundon had 4 buses an hour to Bishop Auckland on the 18 & 56, from next month they're down to just 1 an hour on the 56 (plus the hourly 99 to Shildon & Spennymoor on weekdays only).

(16 Jun 2023, 11:01 pm)Storx wrote Yeah totally agreed tbh and when someone pulls out it doesn't exactly give a gleaming hope for the place as no-one pulls out of a profitable area.

I feel sorry for people around there who don't live on the 6 or 7 routes between Durham, Aycliffe and Bishop Auckland as they basically don't have an evening or Sunday service now which imo is unacceptable, especially Cornforth and Coundon. These are large villages that are pretty much cut off. I know others will mention the 12 in Darlington but least the main town who's name has gone has a train service.

Also unless I'm missing something there's no Arriva service at all in Spennymoor beyond 7pm on a Sunday either.

I understand the issues with Trimdon and not having a bus direct to Durham but surely these should be higher priority.

Also I assume the X75 has been saved aswell as Arriva have just removed it from the changes as if it was never there?

(16 Jun 2023, 5:34 pm)Storx wrote It's the sort of place on paper that should do well aswell really, can't imagine car usage is high at the place but I could be wrong. Always reminds me of Consett and Ashington which both have a much better service, mind Consett is starting to get debateable with the cut, cut, cut that's been happening there recently.

(17 Jun 2023, 9:32 am)L469 YVK wrote For Ashington, if Arriva can target the areas where it'll be more difficult to reach Ashington train station within walking distance, they should be able to survive the ABTRL. Newbiggin to Newcastle for instance could do with a faster service to compliment the X21. Plus plenty of new developments on the X22 between Bedlington and Choppington.

As for Consett, X70 lost. But for the X45, it's effectively the same capacity using double deckers, as the 45/46 was running every 15 mins using single deckers before July 2019. Same goes for the X30/X31 which used to be every 15 mins using single deckers before November 2019, not long before covid. Maybe the introduction of X-Lines was a similar concept to Arriva's Sapphire to try and create growth? Just unfortunately came at the wrong time.

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On another note, with the 6 having it's frequency cut, is this not a good time for Durham CC, Arriva and GNE to look at Enhanced Partnerships around that area?

• Medomsley and Leadgate no Sunday / evening service to Newcastle.
  
• Shotley Bridge lost direct links to Durham on X5/X15.
  
• Stanley lost direct link to Gateshead without going on a mystery tour.
  
• Numerous towns with reduced hourly service to Newcastle which is unusable for most people.
  
• Loss of M services reducing Metro Centre links from places like Annfield Plain - they have been a problem since the 43/44 days with more changes than a baby changes a nappy.
  
• Loss of 28 completely (now subsidised by council)
  
• Loss of Stanley locals (now subsidised by council)
  

(15 Jun 2023, 3:50 pm)Andreos1 wrote What about Biddick Woods Estate?

They've got the 39B.
They're gonna get the 39.

Theyve had the 37 (possibly the 73 at one point) and a stack load of other numbers in the 20 odd years it's been there.

Don't they count? No wonder nobody uses the bus there. They've got no idea what time it comes or where it goes due to the never ending changes or operators!

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We need to remember that bus operators know best. 
They look down on us mere mortals with distain. We know nowt. 

Meanwhile, they're continually being bailed out, making an unstable network even more unstable and axing routes because they can't make things work

(17 Jun 2023, 2:11 pm)Washingtonian wrote I share your frustrations and have felt this way for a long time. For me the biggest problem is that bus companies are no longer ran by proper "bus people" but graduates who have no interest in the industry but are employed to try and make companies as streamlined as possible. Like nearly every industry these days it's all about money and not the customer.

Companies like GNE claim to be making losses, and while this may be true they seem to spend the money when they want. They were quick to step in for the Arriva services North of Newcastle recently. Go Ahead itself can't be doing that bad either when they've recently expanded into the Cotswolds with the recent acquisition of Pulham & Sons and won a £110m Kent Commuter bus contract! In recent years they bought out EYMS and started Go North West. Go-Ahead and other operators should not even be thinking about expanding in other areas when they are "struggling" to turn around their existing operations. The more bus companies they acquire the more expenses they have to pay, so something doesn't add up. It seems to me that the big companies are either scared or not willing to take a risk and try out new bus routes and networks in their existing operations but would rather buy out more bus companies and have more control nationwide. Many people have suggested on here some great ideas for new services and route variations which I believe would work but I bet if it requires the company using an extra bus or two they will not do it. I bet GNE don't even look at the service suggestions either!

People on here may call me a moaner, but I honestly don't care! I've had an interest in buses for years and years but I'm becoming more disillusioned with the industry because I honestly can't see things turning around.

(17 Jun 2023, 2:11 pm)Washingtonian wrote I share your frustrations and have felt this way for a long time. For me the biggest problem is that bus companies are no longer ran by proper "bus people" but graduates who have no interest in the industry but are employed to try and make companies as streamlined as possible. Like nearly every industry these days it's all about money and not the customer.

Companies like GNE claim to be making losses, and while this may be true they seem to spend the money when they want. They were quick to step in for the Arriva services North of Newcastle recently. Go Ahead itself can't be doing that bad either when they've recently expanded into the Cotswolds with the recent acquisition of Pulham & Sons and won a £110m Kent Commuter bus contract! In recent years they bought out EYMS and started Go North West. Go-Ahead and other operators should not even be thinking about expanding in other areas when they are "struggling" to turn around their existing operations. The more bus companies they acquire the more expenses they have to pay, so something doesn't add up. It seems to me that the big companies are either scared or not willing to take a risk and try out new bus routes and networks in their existing operations but would rather buy out more bus companies and have more control nationwide. Many people have suggested on here some great ideas for new services and route variations which I believe would work but I bet if it requires the company using an extra bus or two they will not do it. I bet GNE don't even look at the service suggestions either! 

People on here may call me a moaner, but I honestly don't care! I've had an interest in buses for years and years but I'm becoming more disillusioned with the industry because I honestly can't see things turning around.

(17 Jun 2023, 2:19 pm)Storx wrote tbh another massive thing is the use of models no doubt. It's all good using ticketing data to tell where your customers are going but if the bus doesn't go there in the first place how are you to ever know where your customers really want to go. 

It's an area that councils really should pick up because it affects roads aswell. We see all these plans with bus lanes and cycle paths on places like the Coast Road but none of this does nothing for someone living in Briardene or Holy Cross where there is no bus / alternative and no they're not going to drive to a car park and use a metro or train to the remainder of the journey regardless to what little small world they live in.

We've seem to have nowadays got to the stage the best way to make public transport 'better' is to make the alternative worse but when things like the internet exist there's only going to be one loser and that's people not travelling at all to places like Newcastle or Sunderland whereas the out of town retail parks will continue to boom where public transport don't seem to have realise exist as a lot of them are horrible underserved and I'm not talking only about Team Valley. Teesside Park, in particular, is the worst for that and it's not big box retailers you need a car to travel to there anymore.

(17 Jun 2023, 6:16 pm)Andreos1 wrote They do and they laugh. 
The distain shown by some of insiders on here over the years, is just part of the issue.

As an example, I think it's been said before that posts on here have been the talk of GNE Towers.

They laugh. But keep failing at the same time.

I'd have been sacked if I was as incompetent.

---

They used inaccurate ticket data to make the 2006 changes, pissed off the punters so much that it disrupted travel habits to the point they've got no idea who goes where and who needs to go there, but gave up on the way.

(17 Jun 2023, 2:19 pm)Storx wrote tbh another massive thing is the use of models no doubt. It's all good using ticketing data to tell where your customers are going but if the bus doesn't go there in the first place how are you to ever know where your customers really want to go.

It's an area that councils really should pick up because it affects roads aswell. We see all these plans with bus lanes and cycle paths on places like the Coast Road but none of this does nothing for someone living in Briardene or Holy Cross where there is no bus / alternative and no they're not going to drive to a car park and use a metro or train to the remainder of the journey regardless to what little small world they live in.

We've seem to have nowadays got to the stage the best way to make public transport 'better' is to make the alternative worse but when things like the internet exist there's only going to be one loser and that's people not travelling at all to places like Newcastle or Sunderland whereas the out of town retail parks will continue to boom where public transport don't seem to have realise exist as a lot of them are horrible underserved and I'm not talking only about Team Valley. Teesside Park, in particular, is the worst for that and it's not big box retailers you need a car to travel to there anymore.

(18 Jun 2023, 6:35 pm)Washingtonian wrote That's shocking if true and just proves they aren't interested in people's opinions. If GNE and the other operators really care about what people think then why don't they conduct a survey in the form of a questionnaire online asking everyone what would make the bus a more attractive option, where they'd like to go, and how often they'd likely use the bus etc They could then base services around the results and it shouldn't cost much for them to do if it's all done via the website or something. I know they've had surveys before but only to give people options A or B rather than asking them what they'd really want.

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(18 Jun 2023, 7:46 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote To be fair, Transport North East did exactly that last year in the Big Bus Conversation - https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Big-Bus-Conversation-Report.pdf

Funnily enough though, none of the key themes centred around cutting frequency, removing links and serving ever fewer places directly.

(18 Jun 2023, 9:22 pm)Storx wrote That survey was everything that was wrong with the models. They went to places during the day when everyone was working and only advertised it on places where people already use public transport. 

It done nothing to find out where car users are going or where people really want to be and way too long winded for someone to do out the blue with a whole load of nonsense. 

Any data collection needs to be done from raw data, things like have smart cards or contactless, a centralised journey planner to see where people are trying to go, parking systems which track a car and see where they're travelling to with a house connected - pay by phone app? etc. I'm sure there's a million other ways you could do it if you wanted but it needs to be LA led.

(18 Jun 2023, 9:39 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Pretty sure it was available online though of course people would only have completed it if they were (i) aware, (ii) interested and (iii) not put off by the length etc.

Not sure how far you'd get with tracking cars and joe public's movements before someone shouted Big Brother, nanny state or privacy violation though.

(16 Jun 2023, 6:00 pm)Michael wrote 3rd July 2023

PB0003954/1196
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED 683 Hexham Town Service Hexham Town Service

PB0003954/1194
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED 687 (687) Newbrough Hexham

PB0003954/1198
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED 684 (684) Hexham Newcastle

PB0003954/1391
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED 785 Hexham Haltwhistle

PB0003954/1263
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED X85 Hexham Newcastle

PB0003954/470
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED 688 (688) Hexham Allenheads

PB0003954/631
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED 680 Bellingham Hexham

(18 Jun 2023, 6:35 pm)Washingtonian wrote That's shocking if true and just proves they aren't interested in people's opinions. If GNE and the other operators really care about what people think then why don't they conduct a survey in the form of a questionnaire online asking everyone what would make the bus a more attractive option, where they'd like to go, and how often they'd likely use the bus etc They could then base services around the results and it shouldn't cost much for them to do if it's all done via the website or something. I know they've had surveys before but only to give people options A or B rather than asking them what they'd really want. 

---

Exactly and the modelling system is clarity not working anymore. It's time for them to find new ways of market research.

Completely agree about the retail parks etc. A lot of them are massively under served and it's the same with a lot of the new housing estates, business parks and leisure facilities.

(19 Jun 2023, 11:03 am)Andreos1 wrote The inability of operators to future proof their work, baffles me. 
Whether it's the inability to disaster plan effectively or actually be proactive about operations and find out what passengers (current, previous or potential) need, want or expect. 

We keep seeing the finger being pointed at Covid. Whether lockdown was right or wrong is irrelevant. Whether it's a pandemic or war, there's inevitably going to be a negative impact and it's clear these multi-million pound, multi-national PLC's didn't forsee or think about how to mitigate the effect both short term or long term. 
Other than dusting off the begging bowl. 

Scary. 

Mind, I'm sure they've got a nuclear bomb proof bunker to keep that begging bowl safe. 
As soon as the dust settles following a Putin bombing mission, that bowl will be out and an Oscar winning performance of Oliver will be put on. 
Meanwhile, despite the population of the North East being displaced or indeed dead, that Durham Road, Coast Road and Great North Road corridor will be back to full operational strength before we know it.

(20 Jun 2023, 1:42 pm)Rob44 wrote does anyone think these services in North Tyneside that are going to be run " cemmercially" by go north eat will within, say a year be run by go north east on behalf of NEXUS?

(20 Jun 2023, 6:51 pm)Storx wrote I wasn't going to say it but yeah or not much longer. I have a feeling it's a PR stunt as much as anything, 'GNE saving buses' type thing, especially considering these are routes that GNE have just binned especially around Forest Hall.

Unless they're upped in frequency, they won't last long being hourly.

(19 Jun 2023, 11:03 am)Andreos1 wrote The inability of operators to future proof their work, baffles me. 
Whether it's the inability to disaster plan effectively or actually be proactive about operations and find out what passengers (current, previous or potential) need, want or expect. 

We keep seeing the finger being pointed at Covid. Whether lockdown was right or wrong is irrelevant. Whether it's a pandemic or war, there's inevitably going to be a negative impact and it's clear these multi-million pound, multi-national PLC's didn't forsee or think about how to mitigate the effect both short term or long term. 
Other than dusting off the begging bowl. 

Scary. 

Mind, I'm sure they've got a nuclear bomb proof bunker to keep that begging bowl safe. 
As soon as the dust settles following a Putin bombing mission, that bowl will be out and an Oscar winning performance of Oliver will be put on. 
Meanwhile, despite the population of the North East being displaced or indeed dead, that Durham Road, Coast Road and Great North Road corridor will be back to full operational strength before we know it.

(20 Jun 2023, 9:46 pm)Countydurhambuses wrote It must be really confusing to passengers tbh, the x6/x7 where every half an hour, then x6 hourly, now x6 is half hourly again. Arriva does it too the 56 has gone from hourly to half hourly and it's going back to hourly again, they must know what ridership levels are on their own buses but they seem to do whatever and just see if it sticks. A funny one was gne putting loads of effort into advertising x9/x10 as this grand coach service with some of the best buses then just putting e400s on it and cutting the frequency in half