(07 Apr 2026, 10:48 am)Ambassador wrote The Metro is the obvious answer here, Gateshead is incredibly well connected for what is a secondary town

NECA should follow some of the lessons of Manchester in terms of integration and focus on buses serving areas where the Metro doesn't go.

Burnham's bus network is losing millions because of the meandering routes like you've suggested - they aren't sustainable, we need to move away from this idea that everywhere needs a bus service - it doesn't - hub and spoke is a sustainable future

(07 Apr 2026, 10:48 am)Ambassador wrote Burnham's bus network is losing millions because of the meandering routes like you've suggested - they aren't sustainable, we need to move away from this idea that everywhere needs a bus service - it doesn't - hub and spoke is a sustainable future

(06 Apr 2026, 9:42 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Strongly dislike the idea of diverting services to different places at different times of the day, it's just confusing for everyone - kind of like when Stagecoach in Sunderland inexplicably had the 3 running to two totally separate termini on alternating points in the hour.  Its not even great with the likes of the 21 where it has multiple versions but at least they all serve the same route just stopping short.  If services are going to run to different places, give them a different number.  

Problem with serving office parks and the like is that there's potential demand at shift changeovers and pretty much nothing in between.  I don't think taking resource from main services at those times is the answer (nor is it how they should release buses for scholars leaving holes in core routes but hey ho) though - for the reasons above and because of course that pre-supposes people want to go from TVTE to wherever the (21 in this example) happens to go.

• It won't need a dedicated resource. 
  
• It won't run once a day in either direction. 
  
• Through passengers would supplement those making shorter journeys. 
  
• It could complement the existing (but limited) services in the area. 
  
• A prefix P could be used to help identify those Peak services. 
  

(07 Apr 2026, 9:43 am)Ambassador wrote Team Valley is a difficult one as it's one of the few places in the network where the hub and spoke model works.

From Birtley/CLS you've got the 937 (for the peak) and outside of that the 21 to 93/4 connection works pretty well, even coming from the North the connection at Gateshead is pretty decent. 

(07 Apr 2026, 2:52 pm)Andreos1 wrote It seems to work for the Teams - Newcastle services which divert via Centrelink on a morning peak.
Or the X24a, which diverts via Doxford International.

But, ultimately whatever the network is now, it's not working. Cutting/reducing and consolidating isn't working either. 

I'm not sure we need to go down the Moto hub route that was suggested a while back (although it was different and there were positives), but it's clear something different needs introducing. A peak time diversion, via key employment locations (to me), seems like a good starting point. 

• It won't need a dedicated resource. 
  
• It won't run once a day in either direction. 
  
• Through passengers would supplement those making shorter journeys. 
  
• It could complement the existing (but limited) services in the area. 
  
• A prefix P could be used to help identify those Peak services. 
  

---

If they worked that well, they would be full and people would be using them.
You'd not have the car park through Lamesley or the need to widen the A1 either. 

Using the 937 as an example, it would only be suitable for those very few people starting at 8am and finishing at 5pm and working Monday to Friday (guessing it would take people over the WTD as well). 
Start or finish later and you've got the delights of changing at Low Fell or the Interchange. Assuming there's room to get on a 21 and it isn't beset by delays.

On a personal level, I used to work at Team Valley. 
As a fan of public transport and as a driver fed up of the A1, I tried the bus on more than one occasion. 

The journey was approx 9 miles in the car. Took anything from 30mins to an hour.
The bus - well, it always meant 2 changes. Sometimes 3 (depending which way I went).
Took 90 minutes on average. 

Max roundtrip of 2 hours in the car. Often less.
Min roundtrip on the bus of 3 hours.

That's on top of an 8 hour day at work.
It shouldn't take that long and it shouldn't be that complicated.

(07 Apr 2026, 10:48 am)Ambassador wrote The Metro is the obvious answer here, Gateshead is incredibly well connected for what is a secondary town

NECA should follow some of the lessons of Manchester in terms of integration and focus on buses serving areas where the Metro doesn't go.

Burnham's bus network is losing millions because of the meandering routes like you've suggested - they aren't sustainable, we need to move away from this idea that everywhere needs a bus service - it doesn't - hub and spoke is a sustainable future

(07 Apr 2026, 8:08 pm)Adrian wrote And I think they will, where they can. Kim constantly makes reference to everything being joined up, and I think the move from Metro/Rail being the competition, to actually being part of the solution, will allow NECA to do more with their resources.

Clearly we have a deficit when it comes to rail compared to Greater Manchester, but there's certainly opportunities there to improve rail/Metro connectivity. It doesn't always have to be a 'think big' approach either, there's much simpler projects like extending rail to Team Valley & Birtley that could be acted on.

I disagree with the notion that not everywhere needs a bus service. Public transport should be seen as basic infrastructure, and whilst it doesn't mean everyone should have a 10 minute frequency, we really need to move away from so many places being cut-off altogether.

(07 Apr 2026, 8:08 pm)Adrian wrote ... I disagree with the notion that not everywhere needs a bus service. Public transport should be seen as basic infrastructure, and whilst it doesn't mean everyone should have a 10 minute frequency, we really need to move away from so many places being cut-off altogether.

(07 Apr 2026, 9:42 pm)Busadvocate wrote To move the conversation on, where are the "so many" places that are "cut off altogether" that you consider should have a bus service? 

In the part of the region I know pretty well, the only communities that literally have no regular services are a few very small rural hamlets, plus a few housing estates that are hard to serve well (but with v few exceptions, have a bus within a 10 minute walk). What both types have in common is the lifestyle of people living there generates a very low demand for buses (although obviously an element of chicken and egg - people reliant on bus services don't/can't live there). I'm not sure that doing a lot more in these sort of places is actually as important as other priorities. 
eg Andreos' better services to centres of employment? More circular services? Extra resources to make services more reliable? IMO, the latter is up there, as TfGM has done. Choices, choices...

(08 Apr 2026, 7:39 pm)Adrian wrote I lived in the area for 8 years, so I know of the significant issues caused by the lack of service to Tursdale & Integra61, Old Quarrington, Sunderland Bridge, Hett and Fishburn in particular. Buses would always be a top 3 topic whenever Councillors held their surgeries in these areas.

• Tursdale: about 25 houses. Old Quarrington: about 10 smart houses (down a dead end road..).   
  
• Hett: about 60 houses - so I agree is one of the modest number of places perhaps unlucky to have nothing - but it would be highly subsidised/low demand.
  
• Fishburn: is a large village, but is not "cut off altogether" - it has 3 buses per hour, though still room for feeling it lacks links (restore X21? Extend X22 to Middlesbrough? Both problems of crossing NECA boundaries ...)
  
• Sunderland Bridge: about 15 posh houses and almost all within Active Travel's standard walk distance from stops with 9 buses p hour!
  
• Washington: I confess its a place I struggle to get my head round; but clearly road layouts are difficult. Somewhere I would have ambitions to serve better.
  
• Aykley Heads (Durham). Most of the employment is within a modest walk of excellently served bus stops. The houses are an example of what I referred to, but not easy. (Perhaps 61 could go there instead of its current route?)
  
• Serving major employment better would also be on my wishlist. 
  

(09 Apr 2026, 10:53 am)Busadvocate wrote I assure you I want to be ambitious for all public transport (but my user name is because I think buses tend not to get the attention they deserve). I agree with the concept of bus services (etc) as part of the infrastructure of society. I do hope the conversation in forums like this is ambitious, but realistic - otherwise it can only lead to disappointment. And there are other things that are equally part of community infrastructure that also need funding (youth services? the Further Education sector? higher quality nursery care? etc etc), so it is impossible to duck choices.

I was taking "places" to mean communities. Even in rural Northumberland, I still think it is fair to contend that (almost?) all places with no regular service have only very small populations and would be very expensive to serve, especially with a meaningful impact. (See also TeesFlex - a good level of service but unsustainably expensive ...) 

To keep the thread grounded in examples, I have investigated the places you named (have a look on Streetview).  

• Tursdale: about 25 houses. Old Quarrington: about 10 smart houses (down a dead end road..).   
  
• Hett: about 60 houses - so I agree is one of the modest number of places perhaps unlucky to have nothing - but it would be highly subsidised/low demand.
  
• Fishburn: is a large village, but is not "cut off altogether" - it has 3 buses per hour, though still room for feeling it lacks links (restore X21? Extend X22 to Middlesbrough? Both problems of crossing NECA boundaries ...)
  
• Sunderland Bridge: about 15 posh houses and almost all within Active Travel's standard walk distance from stops with 9 buses p hour!
  
• Washington: I confess its a place I struggle to get my head round; but clearly road layouts are difficult. Somewhere I would have ambitions to serve better.
  
• Aykley Heads (Durham). Most of the employment is within a modest walk of excellently served bus stops. The houses are an example of what I referred to, but not easy. (Perhaps 61 could go there instead of its current route?)
  
• Serving major employment better would also be on my wishlist. 
  

Basically, my point is there will be a need to choose, as having all the toys in the shop is simply not fundable. I hope a higher priority is given to enhancing services at places like Fishburn/ Washington and issues like serving major workplaces better than doing much at the likes of Old Quarrington or Hett or the rural hamlets deep in Northumberland etc).

• Tursdale has Integra61, a huge Amazon warehouse and Tursdale Business Park, plus the 25 houses you mention. Integra61 was said to create 6,000 jobs, but Amazon alone has around 1,500 (as I recall), yet not even a service for shift times.
  
• Sunderland Bridge, I presume you're calculating distance based on the public footpath? This isn't accessible, so it's actually more than double the distance to the nearest southbound stop. You could of course resolve this by placing an additional stop.
  
• Hett and Old Quarrington, although differing in size, are examples of places that need a bespoke service due to narrow roads. Durham Cathedral has the same problem and that has a solution, in limiting the size of the vehicle that is used.
  
• Fishburn - I should have specified that it's been cut-off in that it doesn't have a reasonable bus service. Losing the X12 was a big issue there.
  

(10 Apr 2026, 6:51 am)Storx wrote See imo I think the North East need to develop some intercity/town services which are that, and run them extremely limited stop between the towns (providing there is no rail service).

The X12 is a prime example of that which imo should be Middlesbrough - Stockton - North Tees Hospital - Sedgefield - Coxhoe (Centre Only) - Bowburn (Centre Only) - East Durham College - Durham University - Durham Bus Station Only

Then you'd have a second service running along the corridor which serves every nook and cranny doing stuff like Integra 61, Coxhoe, High Shincliffe, Cornforth, Fishburn, Thorpe Thewles, Trimdon, Teesside Park etc which intentionally takes ages.
ie:
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Durham/54.5762931,-1.2411016/@54.703232,-1.5688628,17193m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m59!4m58!1m55!1m1!1s0x487c2aa525d8b1c1:0x678a46d5f522452b!2m2!1d-1.584852!2d54.77525!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5719086!2d54.774883!3s0x487e87627a774d71:0x1a722bb5d2997eaa!3m4!1m2!1d-1.540258!2d54.753833!3s0x487e8798084163bd:0x354bb89f3020abf4!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5261869!2d54.7425406!3s0x487e87b7f605ec91:0x3d1f8632268dc9b3!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5270266!2d54.7243089!3s0x487e864901c456bd:0x9fed4ea0572eba85!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5014283!2d54.7137768!3s0x487e86216bab6dff:0xd5f9947f06438ded!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5200892!2d54.7029131!3s0x487e861312e1eb41:0x538c8e47b7533b48!3m4!1m2!1d-1.4288505!2d54.698856!3s0x487e892feee1e3c9:0x25755e7181ebd!3m4!1m2!1d-1.4501006!2d54.6535647!3s0x487e8f050de9a96f:0xb7639cc4d2f7777c!3m4!1m2!1d-1.3833633!2d54.6053785!3s0x487e8e0096050c55:0x182e8d474224e5b3!3m4!1m2!1d-1.3095847!2d54.5587337!3s0x487e92e2816c5d49:0x8bb4896c2338d370!1m0!3e0

We have an issue right now where for people travelling between the major towns it takes too long and is unattractive but for those wanting to use it in the local villages the bus is skipping it to try and make it not unbearably long. It's the worst solution for all. Not to mention those wanting long journeys probably are attracted to things like tables etc, which are a waste of space on a town service. 

The 6 from Bishop Auckland to Durham and the 7 from Darlington to Durham are others down that neck of the woods similar. The bus services in Newton Aycliffe, Spennymoor and Ferryhill are awful unless you happen to live on the one corridor where there's loads of buses, nevermind country hamlets with 25 people.

(10 Apr 2026, 10:22 am)Andreos1 wrote I've shared many examples of services being like that in the past. 
But the obsession with consolidation has often been at the expense of anything convenient for the passengers. 

The old GNE X5 was replaced by the X1 and journies are longer in duration than they were South of Washington.
Partly because the X1 is an all stopper (as opposed to limited stop like it was), replacing the 194 between Shiney Row and Easington Lane.

The Durham Road services in Gateshead allowed for the shorter hops, whilst the 231, 723, 735 etc were limited stop between Birtley and Gateshead. 
They've all been combined in to the 21 now (aka the slow bus to Gateshead).

The X12 between Birtley and Gateshead is the only limited stop service between the two and is timed to be approx 10mins quicker during the peaks.

(10 Apr 2026, 2:57 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote Even a 4minute saving is psychological  quicker 

A great example people get the 306 from Battlehill as it is quicker (by 4 mins) as oppose to going round High Farm loop

People in Battlehill or Wallsend will prefer the 340 than the 341 as it misses out Wiltshire Drive 

Some people hate going round Hadrian Park it is all these 4minutes that make it feel quicker


Personally I would make 309 and 306 express along coast road instead of going up every ramp and down  at Chilli Road and the next one down (forgot its name) 

After all they have the 350 and 351 by then going up and down

• Aykley Heads (Durham). Most of the employment is within a modest walk of excellently served bus stops. The houses are an example of what I referred to, but not easy. (Perhaps 61 could go there instead of its current route?)
  

(10 Apr 2026, 10:22 am)Andreos1 wrote I've shared many examples of services being like that in the past. 
But the obsession with consolidation has often been at the expense of anything convenient for the passengers. 

The old GNE X5 was replaced by the X1 and journies are longer in duration than they were South of Washington.
Partly because the X1 is an all stopper (as opposed to limited stop like it was), replacing the 194 between Shiney Row and Easington Lane.

The Durham Road services in Gateshead allowed for the shorter hops, whilst the 231, 723, 735 etc were limited stop between Birtley and Gateshead. 
They've all been combined in to the 21 now (aka the slow bus to Gateshead).

The X12 between Birtley and Gateshead is the only limited stop service between the two and is timed to be approx 10mins quicker during the peaks.

(10 Apr 2026, 8:24 pm)Storx wrote Aye totally, must admit the X1 is definitely one of those services, it's slow at the Houghton end because of it's stopping nature through, let's be honest, some pretty insignificant places, like Newbottle way too frequent, but if you want a bus from anywhere in Washington bar Concord - then good luck. Worst of both worlds imo. 

Like I might be stupid, missing something, but I really can't see how a bus running from Newcastle and Sunderland, and both doing loops around Birtley and Washington in some form of way, linking them up to their major cities can't make money - even if it meant binning off the Washington Locals which I'm sure most really couldn't care about. It's where most people want to be. This bus service also being the one giving a fast service from Birtley not stopping at every bus stop in the world either as the 21 is frustrating as hell.

Credit to Arriva, because they don't deserve it much lately, they've got the 43/44/45 and X10/X11 nailed perfectly for Cramlington / Great North Road and everyone having a direct service to Newcastle with everyone getting as best journey times you're realistically going to get in terms of this really.

(10 Apr 2026, 2:57 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote Even a 4minute saving is psychological  quicker 

A great example people get the 306 from Battlehill as it is quicker (by 4 mins) as oppose to going round High Farm loop

People in Battlehill or Wallsend will prefer the 340 than the 341 as it misses out Wiltshire Drive 

Some people hate going round Hadrian Park it is all these 4minutes that make it feel quicker


Personally I would make 309 and 306 express along coast road instead of going up every ramp and down  at Chilli Road and the next one down (forgot its name) 

After all they have the 350 and 351 by then going up and down

(10 Apr 2026, 8:24 pm)Storx wrote Aye totally, must admit the X1 is definitely one of those services, it's slow at the Houghton end because of it's stopping nature through, let's be honest, some pretty insignificant places, like Newbottle way too frequent, but if you want a bus from anywhere in Washington bar Concord - then good luck. Worst of both worlds imo. 

Like I might be stupid, missing something, but I really can't see how a bus running from Newcastle and Sunderland, and both doing loops around Birtley and Washington in some form of way, linking them up to their major cities can't make money - even if it meant binning off the Washington Locals which I'm sure most really couldn't care about. It's where most people want to be. This bus service also being the one giving a fast service from Birtley not stopping at every bus stop in the world either as the 21 is frustrating as hell.

Credit to Arriva, because they don't deserve it much lately, they've got the 43/44/45 and X10/X11 nailed perfectly for Cramlington / Great North Road and everyone having a direct service to Newcastle with everyone getting as best journey times you're realistically going to get in terms of this really.

(12 Apr 2026, 7:41 pm)V514DFT wrote I was on the 341 a couple weeks ago, it was a Friday lunchtime and it was carrying fresh air, literally just me, 1 other passenger, and obviously the driver which poses a question
Why not turn the 340/341 back into circular routes like they used to, have both do Wiltshire Drive, then swap the 340/341 with the 342 along West Street, High Street West (340), and Elton Street West (341) , then send the 342 along Station Road to cover the loss of the 340, it would give back a service to that area to/from Wallsend and Tynemouth Road since the loss of the since the loss of the 11 (and the 42/42A), im still also convinced something could be done with the 335

(12 Apr 2026, 8:15 pm)220631612 wrote If it wasn’t for the 335 interworking with the 19, I’d have suggested cutting it from Killy to BT, scrapping the Hadrians Park section and running it through to Silverlink, Howden, Willington Quay, Hadrian Road, High Street East into Wallsend instead. Provides new links and gives Point Pleasant a basic bus service again.

(Yesterday, 12:27 pm)Storx wrote Reposted as changed my mind, but imo I'd be looking at getting rid of them completely, with the W1/350/351/356/58 aswell (as they are now).

They're all just legacy routes which were built 20 year+ ago taking no consideration of changes like a Metro station at Northumberland Park.

Something like:


Would be a hell of a lot better for the links which these routes are actually meant be doing and utilise Northumberland Park as the hub which it should be expecially now considering it has 2 TPH and 5 MPH - there's no point duplicating it.

For full reference:
19: East Hartford to Wallsend - Parts of 19/58/342 Combined (PVR 3 - Hourly)
22: Extended to Northumberland Park (PVR 1 - Every 12 Minutes)
W1: Extended to Northumberland Park (PVR 1.5 - Hourly)
W2: Extended to Northumberland Park (PVR 3 - Every 30 Minutes)
W3: Whitley Bay Metro to Northumberland Park via Cullercoats, Marsden, NT Hospital and Murton (PVR 1.5 - Hourly)
335: North Shields to Killingworth (PVR 2 - Hourly)
351: Newcastle to Backworth Only (PVR 3 - Every 30 Minutes)
342: Send to Northumberland Park instead of Wallsend (PVR 3 - Hourly)

Current PVR
19/335: 5
342: 3
350/351: 4
W1/W2: 2
356 Extension: 2
58: 1

One extra bus, but it makes it much more useful for a lot of people. The W services being advertised as local Metro links from Northumberland Park and Whitley Bay with smaller vehicles so you can get further afield and the 22 advertised as the Cobalt / Silverlink Metro link, which is actually frequent, connecting at Wallsend or Northumberland Park depending on the line.

(Yesterday, 2:46 pm)V514DFT wrote I know Meadow Well,Verne Road, and Norham Road would welcome a direct bus to the Hospital instead of having to p155 about changing buses, a link that was axed many moons ago