(05 Sep 2021, 10:47 pm)Adrian wrote My thoughts and observations on the service changes: Becoming Future Fit

Would welcome any comments/feedback as always.

(05 Sep 2021, 10:47 pm)Adrian wrote My thoughts and observations on the service changes: Becoming Future Fit

Would welcome any comments/feedback as always.

(06 Sep 2021, 6:53 am)volvob8l wrote If the proposed change is visualized in map, should be easier to understand in the communications.
Even for the map published, for example, the Sunderland Network map, could not find the routes serving Leechmere Road ASDA.  Both 2A and 38 were not included in the map, puzzling me.

(06 Sep 2021, 8:21 am)Adrian wrote The snippet of the map I used in my blog doesn't appear to have been published on the website yet, at least from what I can see. That version is more detailed than the City of Sunderland fare zone map, but still doesn't include everything.

To be honest, I think its a no-win situation. The geographically accurate maps are a lot better than the previous linear ones, but it'd have to be huge to simply list everything each bus serves. Maps probably have to compliment an actual timetable, but at least give a visual representation of connections and such.

(06 Sep 2021, 6:41 am)Dan wrote Echo the previous comment - very well written, balanced and informative.

As Peter suggested, Durham County Council found the funds to maintain services to Chester-le-Street on service 28, Burnhope and Lanchester on service 30 (as service 730) and Houghton-le-Spring and Seaham on service 71. They continue to be operated by Go North East commercially until such a time comes that Durham County Council can procure a replacement service that they tender. Despite these service changes being agreed with the local authority many months ago, I think the service change date crept upon them and they weren’t able to procure replacement services in time.

Go North East also maintained a service to Pelaw Estate, as 734, in the ‘dead time’ of the 28, which would have otherwise been used as a layover period.


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(06 Sep 2021, 2:14 pm)Drifter60 wrote . I can sort of see the 28/28A (even though I still think it’s a strange terminus for the 28A) as it does do a bit of magical mystery tour of those villages west of Chester. But even then, has the travel pattern of people in Pelton Fell, Grange Villa and Beamish changed that much considering the 28 has been largely unchanged for well over a decade now? 

(05 Sep 2021, 9:40 pm)Dan wrote There’s a bigger marketing campaign planned, but only two of the four buses are actually ready, so a bit of a soft launch for the first week or two just until everything settles down.

There’s also a later service provided than there was previously on the 265, so it represents a pretty good investment from Go North East’s point of view which will be backed up with appropriate marketing (including printed publicity).

It’s one of the big positives in this round of changes, which hasn’t really been discussed here (possibly because the majority seem so focused on the negatives at the moment?!) and likewise the 21 to Brandon, opening up through connections to the Arnison and New College.


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(05 Sep 2021, 11:00 pm)peter wrote Another great blog post! Only thing I will say is that DCC did find the funds for a bus to Burnhope via the new service 730 - not sure if you perhaps missed that as it was added after the updates for the continuation of the 28 Chester stretch and the 71.

(06 Sep 2021, 2:14 pm)Drifter60 wrote I still can’t help but get slightly annoyed that council funds are being used for this sort of route. I can see rural areas - Burnhope being a good example - that funding a commercial service doesn’t always add up, but are we expected to believe the 71 that links two towns on pretty much a direct route with business parks in close proximity at both sides, retail offerings available in both locations plus leisure opportunities at Seaham and a new retail park in Houghton isn’t enough to sustain an hourly Monday-Saturday daytime service? If it’s not, then marketing has failed somewhere. I’m glad the route is saved as it would be a vital missing link, however call me syndical, but I can’t help but feel the bus company knew the council would do just that and get the cheque book out. I can sort of see the 28/28A (even though I still think it’s a strange terminus for the 28A) as it does do a bit of magical mystery tour of those villages west of Chester. But even then, has the travel pattern of people in Pelton Fell, Grange Villa and Beamish changed that much considering the 28 has been largely unchanged for well over a decade now? 
It will be interesting to see what happens with those routes - the 28/71 in particular, you can imagine it’ll be an inconvenience for passengers if further down the line a tendered service is given to Arriva or Stanley Travel. You’ll not be able use GNE tickets when in both communities GNE is pretty much the sole operator, with the odd exceptions. I mean might as well not be under any illusion regards the new 730, 734 and 643 routes longer term. If the 925,938 are anything to go by, they’ll be withdrawn at the next set of changes for better or worse.

(06 Sep 2021, 9:23 pm)Washingtonian wrote Agree with a lot of what you say. I've been thinking lately that one of the biggest problems in the bus industry these days is there is a lack of competition! When I was a lad in the eighties/nineties there were a heck of a lot more independent operators. Where I live in Washington there was the likes of Calvary Coaches, and St George Travel also serving the town. Then in Sunderland you had likes of Redby, Jolly, Micheal Franks etc and then further a field you had good size operators such as OK Travel and Classic and I could name a lot more too.

Back then if one of these operators launched a service GNE would quickly launch one in return. More often than not this would result in the smaller operator retreating as they could not compete with the big operator. Those that did manage to hold their own and put up a real fight would be bought out in the end. I'm sure this was the case with the likes of St George Travel as they were expanding their network at the time and I'm sure GNE bought them out by making them an offer they couldn't refuse. 

Today there are significantly less independent operators around and the big companies dominate and say they have to cut this and cut that and become more and more streamlined. It does beg the question though if there were still as many independent operators around now would there be as many service cuts? I doubt it and I bet they could find buses and drivers at the drop of a hat to create new services to take on the independents!

(06 Sep 2021, 10:03 pm)Storx wrote Interesting take but not sure I agree. Personally I think there's more competition now than there ever has been now but it's not from other bus operators it's cars. The majority of households have more than one car nowadays and pretty much anyone can if they want to.

Back in the 80's that would be unheard of for most families especially in poorer areas to have 2 cars between them like nowadays. Independents wouldn't be able to make money nowadays if they tried and that's not because of GNE etc it's just lack of demand. There's also the Metro which has had a massive impact in a lot of areas aswell for better really (unless your looking from a purely bus point of view).

Competition argubly makes things worse, you just look at North Tyneside, Hartlepool, South Shields / Sunderland and Peterlee. The 4 areas with the most competition and argubly the 4 areas with the most fractured networks aswell with Stagecoach at South Shields and Hartlepool and Peterlee (GNE) being low cost depots and there's an awful lot of subsidised buses in the areas aswell even known they're all urban / semi urban (for Peterlee) areas.

(05 Sep 2021, 4:10 pm)Dan wrote Riverside operated the X30 long before it was upgraded to X-lines.

It was always said when Go North East diverted some of its StreetDecks to Oxford Bus Company that a new interworking pattern was planned to make use of the vehicles that remained at Go North East. These new interworking patterns were always going to see the evening X30 become operated by Consett (I think this has been said before too), but we have been in a global pandemic for the past year and a half which has prevented these schedule changes from taking place (due to the conditions of the government support package).

Whilst the plan has actually since evolved over the past 18 months, following local authority feedback, seeing the creation of services like the 47/47A and the curtailment of the X30 at Stanley, the schedule changes have been brought in at the earliest opportunity (and with that, the evening operation of the X30 transferring to Consett) and this issue addressed.


Whilst the point you make is the same, operationally the X15 is slightly different and a more difficult one to resolve. It is one that Go North East are aware of, but at this stage couldn't be resolved. The Venture minibuses are used on a night because minibus drivers (who are paid less than a 'big bus' established driver with more years experience) operate this service. It'd be massively inefficient and add a lot of extra cost to have the X15 operated by X-lines buses on a night, when passenger numbers are considerably lower than they are during the day.

I haven't checked and no doubt someone will quite quickly come back and tell me I'm wrong and this has been missed, but a note should have been put in the timetable to highlight that those journeys aren't operated by an X-lines bus (the least Go North East could do!)

(07 Sep 2021, 9:55 am)Drifter60 wrote I think a wrong branded or coloured bus on any service isn’t particularly great. One off occurrences is fine and it’s always been the case a bus of any colour is better than none at all. However I do think allocations purposely being wrong is flawed as a concept. Evenings is bad enough, but wrong allocations to be done throughout the day on Sundays is particularly bad. The minibus vs double decker is the most complex one yet, because while I fully understand the business related matters as to why this occurs (and I believe Venture solos have done the evening X5/X15/15/15A since those buses were bought) going from a spacious double decker to a small than average single decker is a downgrade in customer experience and they’re not the same standard as XLINES or as new inside. 

For other areas, such as Deptford’s Berries and Blues on the 2A and 61, could something not be done for instance having two buses at the interchange so while the driver has duty board 61-61-2A-2A, he/her doesn’t stay with the same bus and transfers to the correct branded vehicle waiting for them at the interchange? This may have been explored, just popped into my head when you often see vehicles just waiting in the layover areas of bus stations. Perhaps not practical during Monday-Saturday daytimes but it’s mainly evenings and Sundays I’m thinking here.

(07 Sep 2021, 10:36 am)Economic505 wrote I have an idea. Let’s scrap branded buses altogether.

(06 Sep 2021, 10:03 pm)Storx wrote Interesting take but not sure I agree. Personally I think there's more competition now than there ever has been now but it's not from other bus operators it's cars. The majority of households have more than one car nowadays and pretty much anyone can if they want to.

Back in the 80's that would be unheard of for most families especially in poorer areas to have 2 cars between them like nowadays. Independents wouldn't be able to make money nowadays if they tried and that's not because of GNE etc it's just lack of demand. There's also the Metro which has had a massive impact in a lot of areas aswell for better really (unless your looking from a purely bus point of view).

Competition argubly makes things worse, you just look at North Tyneside, Hartlepool, South Shields / Sunderland and Peterlee. The 4 areas with the most competition and argubly the 4 areas with the most fractured networks aswell with Stagecoach at South Shields and Hartlepool and Peterlee (GNE) being low cost depots and there's an awful lot of subsidised buses in the areas aswell even known they're all urban / semi urban (for Peterlee) areas.

(07 Sep 2021, 8:30 am)Rapidsnap wrote St George Travel along with others such as North Rider, Compass Travel and George Bell closed down due to contract changes requiring low floor buses at a time when the cost of them was at a premium especially since these operators ran small sized buses.

(07 Sep 2021, 8:30 am)Rapidsnap wrote St George Travel along with others such as North Rider, Compass Travel and George Bell closed down due to contract changes requiring low floor buses at a time when the cost of them was at a premium especially since these operators ran small sized buses.

(07 Sep 2021, 5:01 pm)Washingtonian wrote Yeah the drastic increase in the use of cars has certainly had a big impact on bus travel, and there's no getting away from that. However, the point I'm making is GNE didn't think twice about creating new services when there was competition around. I remember when Redby started the 42/43/49 in the mid nineties and GNE suddenly had the 242 and 243 running to Sunderland. Also Redby had the 394 to take on the 194 by extending it to serve Newcastle. Then, guess what GNE extended the 194 to Newcastle and also started 191 service around the same time. It's the same with the bus wars they had with Classic. They could easily start up a new service then if they wanted. So I'm not sure whether I agree competition makes everything worse. If anything I think it keeps the big operators on their toes and forces them to provide a better service. I agree about the metro having an impact on some bus services mind. The old X4/X95 and 187/8 used to always get decent loadings until the metro extended to Sunderland which ultimately killed those services off. Having said that the 56 is a popular service which shows things can turnaround.

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Thanks for confirming that as I heard otherwise about St George Travel. Surprised these independents weren't offered a bit of financial support to help them upgrade their vehicles to the required spec. The big operators get plenty of help after all. I know for sure the likes OK Travel and Redby were bought out, as I was sure Stanley Travel was but they are still going? I remember reading Classic and GNE negotiated to settle their bus wars.

(07 Sep 2021, 6:15 pm)busmanT wrote St George Travel actually had their Operators Licence revoked by the Traffic Commissioner. And one of the partners in North Rider ended up being made bankrupt.

(07 Sep 2021, 11:08 am)cbma06 wrote In Sunderland, should scrap all branded services except for contract services and 20/56, and all other services into Sunderland and district navy and white using the cooperative style


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(08 Sep 2021, 11:43 pm)Acky81 wrote Christ has anyone got any photos of the redby double deckers on the 42 and 43. They have to be the ugliest deckers I’ve ever been on.

(09 Sep 2021, 6:40 am)54APhotography wrote Two points from observation and two short journeys by bus yesterday. The decimation of the 38/238/938 services in Sunderland has left the route beyond Leechmere/Toll Bar very poorly served, one bus an hour the 'Blonde' . Receipts on this section may be erratic as car ownership is high, but there is a considerable number of people who now have no choice but to either wait ages or use the car.

Then there is the Graphite, The 39/39A. A service that has in the past used Solars, Streetlites, and for a good while double deckers. The 1825 from Salterfen to Borough Road yesterday was maxed out. God knows what that time bus will be like on Friday and Saturday night..

Cant beat a Solo packed with pound shop Pam's 

(09 Sep 2021, 7:42 am)Adrian wrote Admittedly I don't know that part of Sunderland too well, but doesn't the 2/2A serve quite a substantial chunk beyond Leechmere/Toll Bar Road? The only difference I can see is the coverage of Burdon Lane and the estate around Ravensworth/Runcorn.

(09 Sep 2021, 7:45 am)54APhotography wrote It's that part I refer to, previously a bouyant service of 38 family and 238/938. The section up to the Junction has increased with the 2/2A, and the rerouting of that through Hollycarrside has compensated for the loss of the aformentioned services.

(09 Sep 2021, 8:18 am)volvob8l wrote Credit to GNE as Sunderland Network map now shows both 2A and 38 which I mentioned being omitted previously.  So GNE is listening and acting quick! (despite the map did not indicate ASDA on it)
However, the 3 bus per hour (1x38, 2x2A) was not regularly timed, so there would be a 38 and a 2A arriving same time at ASDA towards city center at :45, then a 30 mins wait for next 2A.  Not a perfect timetable.

(09 Sep 2021, 8:18 am)volvob8l wrote Credit to GNE as Sunderland Network map now shows both 2A and 38 which I mentioned being omitted previously.  So GNE is listening and acting quick! (despite the map did not indicate ASDA on it)
However, the 3 bus per hour (1x38, 2x2A) was not regularly timed, so there would be a 38 and a 2A arriving same time at ASDA towards city center at :45, then a 30 mins wait for next 2A.  Not a perfect timetable.

(09 Sep 2021, 9:43 am)Rob44 wrote Speaking of buses arriving together I saw a 21, a 25 and a 28b all heading to newcastle along low fell one night this week. If punters at that time do the same as during the day the 21 will pick up the majority leavening both the 25 and 28b look like now one wants them!