(09 Aug 2024, 8:41 pm)Storx wrote Yeah totally agreed but even arguably you could argue those actually on the 21 corridor are at a disadvantage aswell. 

Like say if you live at Birtley, you might go to Newcastle for leisure but you might work at Washington and regularly go to the QE for whatever reason. If you can't get to work or the hospital and need a car, why bother using the bus when you've already got the car. I know I wouldn't.

Birtley to pretty much everywhere is a crap service bar Newcastle, so let's make that one better... erm okay...?

(09 Aug 2024, 9:46 pm)Andreos1 wrote In reality, there's not that many people who live on the corridor. 
Ultimately, the 21 ploughs up and down High Streets and relies on services feeding in and out of it. 
If it wasn't for the 34 and it's ilk, who else is likely to walk the mile or so to/from the hilly estates in Chester or Birtley or the pre-war housing on the valleys surrounding Low Fell? 

Or in the example of my folks, who drive, park and use their twirly passes if they're popping in to the town. 

The irony being, that they have an infrequent bus within spitting distance of where they live plus frequent services passing close by. But each of them are feeding in to the hub and spoke model (which doesn't work for them). 
Easy enough getting to the town as the less frequent bus generally connects well with the more frequent Newcastle bus at the hub. 
Pain in the preverbial when the frequent bus from Newcastle doesnt arrive at a time that works for the less frequent bus home. Or the less frequent bus has finished for the night...

(10 Aug 2024, 12:01 am)R852 PRG wrote Those of you expecting them to do anything less than try and misappropriate BSIP funding rather than stake their own investment into a frequency increase want to give yourselves a shake. Obviously no signs of any consultations on the allocation of BSIP funding, indicative of yet more arbitrary decision-making by our local authorities. I've used the 21 and its previous incarnations for as long as I can remember, yet the business today has still failed to grow it commercially without a handout. We know they live hand to mouth. But, hey, at least they've been able to secure some BSIP funding, after shitting the bed with the 599 and somehow managing to lose it to a startup.

Ostensibly, the appointment of the current Head of Commercial appears to have been a decision borne out of a sad combination of convenience and desperation. When I first learned of the appointment, I genuinely laughed out loud. I spent four years living in Aberdeen, through which he held the Commercial Director post with Stagecoach Bluebird. The 727 service between Union Square and Aberdeen Airport traverses the Great Northern Road, the main artery into Aberdeen from the north/northwest suburbs, and maintains the constant stream of offshore workers travelling to and from the airport. In fact, during the pandemic, the main vaccination centre in Grampian ended up situated at the arena at P&J Live, serviced solely by the 727. 

At the outset of my time in Aberdeen, the 727 operated on a Monday-Friday 10-minute daytime frequency and 15-minute weekend frequency, with a consistent allocation of branded E400MMCs. When I say the 727 used to move large quantities of people, this is no exaggeration. During the Great Driver Shortage of 2021 (which somehow continues to exist today in some places), the 727 was knocked down to a 15-minute weekday frequency and a 20-minute weekend frequency. Now, you might argue that such a reduction in frequency could work so long as the allocation of deckers was maintained. But the allocation ended up being, for a long period until the BYDs of today arrived, a bunch of *absolutely shocking* hybrid saloons, while those MMCs were generally seen swanning about on the 201/202 out to Royal Deeside to see the Queen at Balmoral. I've heard wishy-washy comments trying to explain some of these service revisions and allocations away as 'right-sizing' the Bluebird operation, a genuinely bizarre observation once made by somebody situated miles from Aberdeen, but I don't and doubt I ever will accept these arguments. 

But I still maintain that the rot established itself in the Kevin Carr era. Carr himself was little more than a custodian of the business, and I don't believe there really was any plan to try and grow it beyond aimlessly continuing the branding initiative Peter Huntley introduced, and buying whatever the cheapest vehicles available at the time were in the name of regenerating the fleet, irrespective of their suitability, such as those B5TLs being ordered for the X9/X10. More damning, arguably, was the appointment of senior managers who were considered a safe pair of hands, the natural choice for the job, who knew the business (more in the sense of familiarity with its setting than competence), but were in the same token the lifeblood of the decline which characterised this period. One wonders what could have been, had Huntley not left over the Hexham/Ashington fiasco. He was just 55 when he died, and, had he never moved on - which would be understandable at that age - he might well have remained Managing Director up until the pandemic, or perhaps just before, if we assumed a typical retirement age. And if Gilbert was still meant to be in the summer of 2018, just imagine the business he might have inherited. 

I honestly believe Gilbert gets an unfair hearing. My own little revisionist history of Go North East is that he was dealt a bad hand by the pandemic and ultimately was just a convenient scapegoat for the years of mismanagement that predated his arrival, his insistence on pressing ahead with ill-thought-out concepts which the circumstances of the pandemic couldn't accommodate notwithstanding. I might have preferred to see him go down with the ship, as a point of integrity more than anything else, especially amidst a depot closure, but I think he genuinely cared about Go-Ahead values and sought to develop the business. I also think Gilbert is unfairly typecast as something of a one trick pony, but this is a point of criticism you can irrefutably extend to Featham's approach:

1. Reorganisation of local management structure, introducing additional layers of management in a top-heavy bureaucracy
2. Comprehensive review of drivers' conditions, all while spoiling for a bloodbath
3. Buy drivers out of their conditions to improve scheduling efficiency, engaging the union in said bloodbath
4. Overpromote grads - who generally know bugger all about bugger all - in the name of developing the leaders of the future, who would in any other circumstance be labelled egregious underperformers and afforded no second chances

Given the existing comprehension barriers, rigidity of thought, and apparent inability to think beyond a prescribed set of instructions, at this point, they might as well move local management - both at SLT and depot level - offshore, and see if we're actually any worse off. And throw in the existing commercial team for good measure, for their fecklessness and insubordination. There'd be a guaranteed cost saving, at least.

(10 Aug 2024, 12:01 am)R852 PRG wrote But I still maintain that the rot established itself in the Kevin Carr era. Carr himself was little more than a custodian of the business, and I don't believe there really was any plan to try and grow it beyond aimlessly continuing the branding initiative Peter Huntley introduced, and buying whatever the cheapest vehicles available at the time were in the name of regenerating the fleet, irrespective of their suitability, such as those B5TLs being ordered for the X9/X10. More damning, arguably, was the appointment of senior managers who were considered a safe pair of hands, the natural choice for the job, who knew the business (more in the sense of familiarity with its setting than competence), but were in the same token the lifeblood of the decline which characterised this period. One wonders what could have been, had Huntley not left over the Hexham/Ashington fiasco. He was just 55 when he died, and, had he never moved on - which would be understandable at that age - he might well have remained Managing Director up until the pandemic, or perhaps just before, if we assumed a typical retirement age. And if Gilbert was still meant to be in the summer of 2018, just imagine the business he might have inherited. 

I honestly believe Gilbert gets an unfair hearing. My own little revisionist history of Go North East is that he was dealt a bad hand by the pandemic and ultimately was just a convenient scapegoat for the years of mismanagement that predated his arrival, his insistence on pressing ahead with ill-thought-out concepts which the circumstances of the pandemic couldn't accommodate notwithstanding. I might have preferred to see him go down with the ship, as a point of integrity more than anything else, especially amidst a depot closure, but I think he genuinely cared about Go-Ahead values and sought to develop the business. I also think Gilbert is unfairly typecast as something of a one trick pony, but this is a point of criticism you can irrefutably extend to Featham's approach:

1. Reorganisation of local management structure, introducing additional layers of management in a top-heavy bureaucracy
2. Comprehensive review of drivers' conditions, all while spoiling for a bloodbath
3. Buy drivers out of their conditions to improve scheduling efficiency, engaging the union in said bloodbath
4. Overpromote grads - who generally know bugger all about bugger all - in the name of developing the leaders of the future, who would in any other circumstance be labelled egregious underperformers and afforded no second chances

Given the existing comprehension barriers, rigidity of thought, and apparent inability to think beyond a prescribed set of instructions, at this point, they might as well move local management - both at SLT and depot level - offshore, and see if we're actually any worse off. And throw in the existing commercial team for good measure, for their fecklessness and insubordination. There'd be a guaranteed cost saving, at least.

(09 Aug 2024, 9:55 pm)Storx wrote Yeah you're right there mind. To be honest, though it'd be interesting to see what the loads are like as a percentage beyond the Angel as they never seem very busy to me.

I can't imagine there will be many people interchanging onto it though, other than the 34 - maybe. The 'connecting' services are just too infrequent for it to be a realistic option especially in places like Birtley but then again the 21 isn't busy at that point anyway. Arguably a 15 minute service is probably more than enough between the Angel and CLS, there's definitely no need for 8 buses an hour. 

If only they used those 4 other buses to serve other areas instead...

(10 Aug 2024, 12:43 pm)Andreos1 wrote In theory there's the 34, 71 and 78 in Chester. 
The 82 in Birtley and maybe the 67 or 93/94 in Low Fell. 
Can't think of anything else. Anyone else boarding it, face a hike on shanks pony due to the route and location of housing. 

When you look at the frequency of the 21 and then compare it to the services that feed in to and out of it, the balance is all wrong. 

Many a time I've got on to a 21 from a 71 and it's been fine. 
The return leg less so. 
When you factor in the fewer boards on the 71 vs when it first started, the issue really rams home to everyone except those in GNE Towers it seems. 

If they're really wanting it to succeed and become the cash cow it should be, they need to look at the network. 
Unless of course, they're happy propping it up with tax payer money year after year.

(10 Aug 2024, 6:43 pm)DeltaMan wrote Back to the point about the 21 getting money for extra trips....

How is it not state aid? 

Can anybody think of any other example that isn't in NEXUSland of a similar frequent service getting BSIP funds? If the money was going to the 21 to do something different, then I'd understand  (like the suggestions above) , but to get money for effectively nothing different in return stinks to be honest.

(10 Aug 2024, 6:43 pm)DeltaMan wrote Back to the point about the 21 getting money for extra trips....

How is it not state aid? 

Can anybody think of any other example that isn't in NEXUSland of a similar frequent service getting BSIP funds? If the money was going to the 21 to do something different, then I'd understand  (like the suggestions above) , but to get money for effectively nothing different in return stinks to be honest.

(10 Aug 2024, 1:07 pm)Storx wrote Aye that's true, must admit they're not interchanges I'd like to do anything to hourly is risky as I've learnt a lot of times trying to catch the 19 at Northumberland. Luckily I don't mind a walk and it's only 50 minutes or so but if it was a frequent thing I'd get sick very fast.

I know it's a irrelevant to this thread but I wish we'd ditch this stupid hub and spoke and reverse it.

Like this BSIP could've easily been an extended 71 (even if it only ran to Houghton for timetabling reasons) and an extended 725 which then interwork with the 21 patterns. Two currently undesirable routes suddenly come a lot more attractive. If they do well, who knows maybe you could up them to every 2 BPH each, if not you've opened new connections regardless. I'd actually be on the fence more with that because it makes sense.

(10 Aug 2024, 8:33 pm)Andreos1 wrote A commuter is adding an extra hour or so on to their day and it's just not attractive.

The times I've done it, have purely been because I was choosing to grice to/from work or whatever else. I had the choice of the car. I pity those who don't.

(10 Aug 2024, 10:14 pm)Ambassador wrote One question I’d have is I’d assume the electric bid went on current frequency so you’ll still be seeing cast offs running the 21

(10 Aug 2024, 10:40 pm)Adrian wrote There's £19.5m of Levelling Up funding that was awarded for 52 new electric buses earlier this year.

It's not clear whether that's still on, or whether it's been axed under Rachel Reeves budget statement.

(10 Aug 2024, 10:14 pm)Ambassador wrote In defence of the 21 it is an incredibly busy service particularly between Chester and Newcastle and it does justify a return to its original ‘21’ frequency

Let’s not forget that in parts the Chester Birtley Low Fell corridor once boasted the 735, 709, 728, 221, 231, 724, 722, 723  Cross Tyne, 183 and others and has been basically cut to a 21 

One question I’d have is I’d assume the electric bid went on current frequency so you’ll still be seeing cast offs running the 21

(10 Aug 2024, 10:14 pm)Ambassador wrote In defence of the 21 it is an incredibly busy service particularly between Chester and Newcastle and it does justify a return to its original ‘21’ frequency

Let’s not forget that in parts the Chester Birtley Low Fell corridor once boasted the 735, 709, 728, 221, 231, 724, 722, 723  Cross Tyne, 183 and others and has been basically cut to a 21

One question I’d have is I’d assume the electric bid went on current frequency so you’ll still be seeing cast offs running the 21

(11 Aug 2024, 7:52 am)DeltaMan wrote I don't think anybody is unhappy with the increase in frequency. It's the use of public funds to do it, especially when we're still in a deregulated system.

(11 Aug 2024, 5:53 pm)Ambassador wrote Yes the return of the 21a, 21b and 733/721 would have been far more useful

(29 Jul 2024, 5:18 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote The last buses are quite early, how are people getting back from the quayside?

(15 Aug 2024, 10:49 pm)Rustylino76 wrote The proposed Q3 timetable is ridiculous on MF evenings between approx 7pm-9pm it goes hourly then 9pm-to 11pm half hourly - Sats and Sundays its 30min headways?

(18 Aug 2024, 9:41 am)Chris3912 wrote None of the Q3 bus timetable changes make any sense. Noone who lives on GP is going to wait an hour for a bus from Gosforth High Street they'll just jump on an Arriva X service to Brunton lane and walk to GP or drive instead?

A petition has been raised to highlight the issues ⬇️

Please sign if you agree.

https://www.change.org/p/a-fair-review-of-bus-services-to-gosforth-high-street?recruiter=846826614&recruited_by_id=465fff80-f19f-11e7-8c75-1fd5cf5eb116&utm_source=share_petition&utm_campaign=share_for_starters_page&utm_medium=email

(18 Aug 2024, 9:58 am)PH - BQA wrote The insistence from GNE on sending the Q3 through Jesmond already makes it very unattractive for me personally. I gave it another shot yesterday, and it took 45 minutes from Great Park to Newcastle which is absolute madness. It takes me 25 mins to walk the 1.5 miles from my front door to the Brunton Lane bus stop, and about 15 mins from there to Newcastle on any Arriva service - how on earth is it acceptable that the Q3 is longer than this?

On the way back, I don't even bother checking when a Q3 is coming into Haymarket, it is always quicker to jump on the first Arriva service up the GNR and walk back. 

Regarding Gosforth High Street, all that would really be needed is the 49 to continue until around 11pm. They could easily do it with 1 bus - I guess the issue is that for some bizarre reason they've decided to fund the evening Q3 instead (the remaining route of which, if we're honest, can be covered by walking and an Arriva bus).

(18 Aug 2024, 10:13 am)Storx wrote Has it actually been confirmed that it's been funded the Q3? I don't actually know, it's an open question. Surely they would've just extended that instead of the 48 if they were.

(18 Aug 2024, 11:41 am)PH - BQA wrote It's definitely confirmed for the evening services, unsure on daytime but given the 49 operates during the day it's less of an issue.

(11 Aug 2024, 7:52 am)DeltaMan wrote I don't think anybody is unhappy with the increase in frequency. It's the use of public funds to do it, especially when we're still in a deregulated system.

(20 Aug 2024, 5:43 pm)busmanT wrote I see that Stagecoach are also using public funds to increase frequencies in Newcastle - the 1, 30/31 and 36
https://www.stagecoachbus.com/service-updates/serviceupdatesarticle?SituationId=ID-15/08/2024-16:06:03:202

(21 Aug 2024, 11:52 am)DeltaMan wrote Indeed so. The difference being that Stagecoach actually registered a permanent timetable position post COVID at the end of 2022. So this could be classed as a legitimate enhancements. 

Whereas GNE still appears to be, from a traffic commissioner perspective, still in "temporary" mode. So it appears they are getting paid to restore something that should have been 7/8 mins to begin with.

(21 Aug 2024, 3:36 pm)Storx wrote The 36 the other day I seen at around 11am heading towards Newcastle had 4 people on so not sure what metric that needs more buses.

(21 Aug 2024, 6:10 pm)Aaron21 wrote I believe it's due to the 30/31 interwork with the 36 and tbf I've seen it busy a lot tbf