(24 Jul 2022, 12:21 pm)L469 YVK wrote Does the X45 and 47 have a long layover at Consett on Sundays?

Surely it would be more efficient on Sundays for:
- X72 ran by Riverside interworking with 6/12/X30

- 16B/47/X15/X45 interworking

- Short X15 interworking with 78

(24 Jul 2022, 1:18 pm)Thomas12 wrote Noticed as part of these changes that the 687 now has a Sunday service - yet no mention of this on the Go North East website apart from that there are 'minor' changes to the timetable.

(24 Jul 2022, 12:25 pm)Unber43 wrote X15 now goes Directly to Castleside.

(24 Jul 2022, 1:23 pm)L469 YVK wrote Could split it on a Sunday though. As it stands, the current Sunday PVRs are as follows......

- 6/12/X30 - 5x
- 16B - 3x
- 47 - 3x
- 78- 4x
- X15 - 2x
- X45/X72 - 5x

That gives a total of 22. If the following interworking patterns were used instead.....

- 6/12/X30/X72 - 7x
- 16B/47/X15/X45 - 9x (X15 on this board DHM > CON only)
- 78/X15 - 4x (short X15 CAS > CON only)

That would only be a PVR of 20x meaning a reduction of 2x. Obviously 6/12/X30/X72 reliefs done at MetroCentre or Winlaton/Blaydon. Later Sunday X72 reliefs done at Gateshead.

Round trip on the 16B/47/X15/X45 would be 4hr 30m keeping in line with driving hours. All long layovers would be effectively axed.

Also enough leeway to maintain Sunday PVR of the current 78 and throw in a short round trip to Castleside.

Only issue I can foresee is how would splitting the X15 work if under contract to Durham CC? Would GNE have to take maybe the short turn commercially?

(24 Jul 2022, 1:35 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Let's just say they were going to replace the ex-dealer B5s on the X21 with new StreetDecks, why would that mean replacing the whole batch of B5s?

The average passenger, heck, even people on here, can't tell the difference between a B5 and a StreetDeck, so they could operate both on the same route with ease.

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(24 Jul 2022, 1:52 pm)Rob44 wrote whats a streetdeck?

(24 Jul 2022, 1:29 pm)Unber43 wrote 78 can't be a double decker, meaning the X15 to Castleside would have to be a single decker

(24 Jul 2022, 1:35 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Let's just say they were going to replace the ex-dealer B5s on the X21 with new StreetDecks, why would that mean replacing the whole batch of B5s?

The average passenger, heck, even people on here, can't tell the difference between a B5 and a StreetDeck, so they could operate both on the same route with ease.

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(24 Jul 2022, 1:38 pm)Unber43 wrote I think the reason people are saying the X21, is because other than that where are they going to put them, unless they plan to make the X1 every 10 mins, and extend it through to hartlepool or Seaham.


And tbh the current state of the X21 in vehicles allocations are less than desirable.

(24 Jul 2022, 3:29 pm)Unber43 wrote Has anyone thought that the B5TL could be a possible extension for the 21 down to Bowburn, making it every 15 mins to Durham, then every 30 mins to Bowburn/Brandon, I remember Dan saying they had meetings. 

Or it would be nice to try some new XLines Routes, Sunderland to Newcastle. or upgrade the X20

(24 Jul 2022, 3:46 pm)Michael wrote They tried it via the Galleries but it didn't last long then Stagecoach jumped in with the X24 - only stopping from Park Lane to Hastings Hill, then Gateshead and Newcastle, which is quicker.

Seems to be doing alright atm, don't think GNE would try and replicate it.

(24 Jul 2022, 2:28 pm)L469 YVK wrote 78 and short X15 on a Sunday would be StreetLite operated.

---

Not quite.....6356-63 have way more features and better interiors compared to 6308-14.

---

For starters, the new X21 PVR of 8x matches the exact number of StreetDecks.

Furthermore, 6377 can make up the PVR of the X21 which is 14x (6364-76 + 6377) with 6331-33 moving to Washington as spares for the 50/X1.

(24 Jul 2022, 4:02 pm)Unber43 wrote Its an clear express GNE are missing. 

X2 - Park Lane - Fawcett Street -  (A690 or A183) - Heworth - Gateshead - Newcastle (with peaks it can go to Doxford Park/Amazon). 

Takes 2 hours with layovers, every 30 mins PVR 4.

(24 Jul 2022, 4:02 pm)Unber43 wrote Its an clear express GNE are missing. 

X2 - Park Lane - Fawcett Street -  (A690 or A183) - Heworth - Gateshead - Newcastle (with peaks it can go to Doxford Park/Amazon). 

Takes 2 hours with layovers, every 30 mins PVR 4.

(24 Jul 2022, 4:24 pm)Storx wrote Could just use the Metro which is every 12 minutes, soon to be 10 between the 2 and takes 30 minutes or so without any traffic to contend with either...

The vast majority of people would choose a Metro over a bus any day of the week. Only people who have a fear of trains for some strange reason or are obsessed with buses wouldn't when it serves the exact same stops. The X24 is unique in it serves Chester Road where there's no Metro service at all.

(24 Jul 2022, 4:24 pm)Storx wrote Could just use the Metro which is every 12 minutes, soon to be 10 between the 2 and takes 30 minutes or so without any traffic to contend with either...

The vast majority of people would choose a Metro over a bus any day of the week. Only people who have a fear of trains for some strange reason or are obsessed with buses wouldn't when it serves the exact same stops. The X24 is unique in it serves Chester Road where there's no Metro service at all.

(24 Jul 2022, 4:26 pm)Michael wrote Reason I use it, as its easy, its a 10 minute walk from mine to the Grindon Mill, plus the £5 Tyne and Wear day ticket is worth it.

(24 Jul 2022, 4:35 pm)Unber43 wrote I don't use the metro, purely cos its awful.

(24 Jul 2022, 4:40 pm)Storx wrote Yeah it makes sense the X24, mind it'll be interesting to see if it survives the Covid cuts when they come to Sunderland as I don't believe Stagecoach have done there's yet.


There's no demand for Sunderland Centre to Newcastle Express services sadly.

(24 Jul 2022, 4:24 pm)Storx wrote Could just use the Metro which is every 12 minutes, soon to be 10 between the 2 and takes 30 minutes or so without any traffic to contend with either...

The vast majority of people would choose a Metro over a bus any day of the week. Only people who have a fear of trains for some strange reason or are obsessed with buses wouldn't when it serves the exact same stops. The X24 is unique in it serves Chester Road where there's no Metro service at all.

(24 Jul 2022, 4:40 pm)Storx wrote Yeah it makes sense the X24, mind it'll be interesting to see if it survives the Covid cuts when they come to Sunderland as I don't believe Stagecoach have done there's yet.


That's your choice though, you can't just run buses for people who dislike the Metro for whatever reason, there's alternatives like the 56 but it's not really sensible. 99% of people will use the Metro and anyone commuting from Sunderland through to Newcastle will very likely have a good enough wage to get a Network One pass and would value the extra time in bed than saving a small amount of money.

There's no demand for Sunderland Centre to Newcastle Express services sadly. It's the same reason the X6/X7 Middlesbrough services died a slow death as everyone uses the train and other people (Peterlee) are covered by the X9 now X10.

(24 Jul 2022, 5:37 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Where's the Metro on the A690 like?  Anyone who lives west of the University station on Durham Road would have to travel in the wrong direction to a Metro station which can make the Metro a far less appealing option than you assume.  Arguably Chester Road is slightly better than Durham Road in terms of links to Metro stations but still far from convenient.

(24 Jul 2022, 6:17 pm)Storx wrote By the way I read the way it was posted I assumed the (A690 / A183) meant run non-stop along it express rather than stopping along it even then is there that much demand for it. Does that many people actually travel from Sunderland to Newcastle to warrant express services along every road. Arguably the best area for one is North Sunderland as they'd have to travel backwards or travel on the extremely slow 56 and it's failed twice now I believe.

imo if they really wanted to do an Newcastle service from Sunderland then I'd do these changes and give parts of Washington a direct to Newcastle aswell which they don't have either. It also fixed the Doxford Park link to Sunderland with GNE.

2 - Full 2 doing 2A route in Penshaw (Every 30 Minutes)
2A - 2A Sunderland to Silksworth only, Washington section replaced by X2 (Every 30 Minutes)
X2 - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Newcastle+upon+Tyne/54.9041932,-1.3902025/@54.8980844,-1.532929,15.87z/data=!4m54!4m53!1m50!1m1!1s0x487d857e0c6f64cd:0xbe252b072a76191!2m2!1d-1.61778!2d54.978252!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5786414!2d54.9303914!3s0x487e7a6846bbc18b:0x4e3f183aab834ec9!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5364693!2d54.8984208!3s0x487e7b1855e06429:0x1972d65908e9d2d2!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5345315!2d54.9001908!3s0x487e7b18999643e5:0xe897f15d3d781c56!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5229509!2d54.8930575!3s0x487e7b3a4ce96efb:0xc4c01c9140a94a07!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5200172!2d54.8865108!3s0x487e7b381b93f4cd:0xbffb8abedef21dc7!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5201252!2d54.8855372!3s0x487e7b3806ed7e09:0x36fed7627eddd536!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5048827!2d54.8762566!3s0x487e7b4d34df61df:0x6c4f4f16b8a72bd6!3m4!1m2!1d-1.436922!2d54.8654357!3s0x487e64781d1bbbf1:0x6972b8ae021599ab!3m4!1m2!1d-1.4011584!2d54.8742796!3s0x487e640314eeed51:0xb0bb9b60a169ffe9!1m0!3e0 - Every 30 Minutes
33 - Replaced by X2
39/39A - No Changes
39B - Terminate at Doxford Park
2/78 - Work together to provide a 15 minute service from Shiney Row to Sunderland via Chester Road

(24 Jul 2022, 6:40 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote If it was a suggestion to run non-stop on the only stretch not competing with the Metro (A183/A690) - then I agree with you, pointless.  Your suggested routing is not  bad and would open up a lot of new links (so not only relying on people doing the whole Newcastle-Sunderland route).  It's an interesting question as to whether there is enough demand for such services ... there will doubtless be plenty travelling back and forth along the Felling Bypass or A1 every day and it's how to tempt them out of their cars.  Direct, fast (and reliable of course) buses that dont require them to travel in the wrong direction first (and either have to find somewhere to park to then get Metro, or pay for multioperator tickets) are the answer IMO.  I genuinely don't know how they measure whether the demand exists - for example, when did the last express run along A690 Sunderland to Newcastle, if ever?  If they don't have historic or recent passenger data, how do they know what the demand might be?  I don't think I've ever seen consultations (for any operator or indeed Nexus) asking people where they want to go from and to; just ones asking which cuts to existing routes are their favourites...

(24 Jul 2022, 6:59 pm)Storx wrote Yeah can't disagree to be honest. I can't remember where it was but there's a map around detailing where commuter flows are going from surveys and I know Sunderland is really unique in that a lot of people don't leave Sunderland whereas pretty much everywhere else commutes towards Newcastle.

I know I'm derailing the thread a bit but I wish Nexus would push the Metro extension to Doxford Park that they had planned, it's by far the most worthwhile route rather than the fantasy lines to Washington and from the Metro Centre to Chester Le Street. Bar a 20m section near university the route is all free pretty much and if this government is serious about 'levelling up' it should be the sort of thing being built. Manchester has had a fortune on similar tram routes.

The pink line below is the Doxford Park route for those who don't know what it is.