(27 Jul 2022, 6:32 pm)F114TML wrote Probably because Nexus seem to have a rule that everyone should have a bus stop (with a service) within 400m of their house (presumably just a radius and not by walking distance). If a bus stop loses its commercial service and it serves people who have no other alternative bus within 400m, that service gets subsidised (hence the 39B). As to why the evening services are only hourly - I'm going to guess that either they can't afford it, or none of the bidders proposed a more frequent service for a descent price.

(27 Jul 2022, 6:35 pm)Storx wrote It still doesn't really make much difference though. GNE at the same time have paid millions to their shareholders while every single tax payer has been finding bus services that the majority will never use whether that's the 23, 84 or 85 etc. 

The 23 runs in local estates or TB14 which I believe it is now which otherwise wouldn't have a service at all. 

The reason it's been cut is because they're funding the 25, 28, 29, 39B, 81, 82, 83, 67 and 69 instead pretty much.

(27 Jul 2022, 6:36 pm)Malarkey wrote Exactly the point that was made my some of the Independent Operators such as JH Coaches during a meeting with Nexus when it came to discussing tenders with them from what a driver on the 82 told me this afternoon.

I said to the driver the 82 has been ran like a joke by Go North East over the years, firstly they were operating it commercially throughout the day/evening then were getting funding on an evening because it wasn't viable to operate, then at several points over the past 10 years the evenings have been contracted to another operators such as Arriva and Gateshead Central Taxis for a period before Go North East have then won the contract back.

Personally for me I don't think they should be running the evening/sunday ops of the 81 when they lost the daytime contract in the first place probably because they did not make a low enough bid or they didn't bid at all, I certainly think the contracts should be tendered to cover daytime/evening service as singular contract and not two separate ones and it is great to see an independent like JH take a stand like they have and challenged Nexus on the operations of services by Go North East and I certainly hope to see more contract been given to these operators in the future rather than Go North East taking the very large majority like they do.

The good news side of things ticket acceptance is in place for Go North East tickets to be used on the 82 and the driver I spoke reported there been some good numbers on new section of the route between Birtley and Gateshead, the journey I got on at 15:45 from The Galleries was the quietest the driver had all day.

(27 Jul 2022, 7:02 pm)Washingtonian wrote Yes I found it laughable how GNE won the contract for pretty much the same route they scrapped for. This is a very valid point! I'd love to see JH Travel winning more contracts and even running services commercially some time in the future. This would help GNE on their toes and maybe help them buck their ideas up.

(27 Jul 2022, 6:27 pm)Washingtonian wrote Not really in this instance as Nexus have funded a lot of evening services for several years as most would be making losses if ran commercially. I'lll re-iterate the point again about the 23. Hardly ever a soul on it - yet the route gets funded again and again in some form. How does this make sense when other areas use the bus more but have services taken away from them.

(27 Jul 2022, 7:07 pm)Unber43 wrote But the thing is, loads of independent operators having contracts without any ticket acceptence is just bad, its bad for the customer.

(27 Jul 2022, 7:35 pm)busmanT wrote Because Nexus has to answer to local councillors, as it’s the local councils that fund Nexus.
A lot of the money that would have funded 30 minute evening services has been redirected to fund daytime services (eg 28/29, 67/69, 82/82A) and early morning and evening services that GNE used to operate commercially but are now funded by Nexus.

(27 Jul 2022, 7:07 pm)Unber43 wrote But the thing is, loads of independent operators having contracts without any ticket acceptence is just bad, its bad for the customer.

(27 Jul 2022, 9:30 pm)DeltaMan wrote Genuine question. Is there anything happening in Washington after 19:00 to justify a better service?

(27 Jul 2022, 7:35 pm)busmanT wrote Because Nexus has to answer to local councillors, as it’s the local councils that fund Nexus.
A lot of the money that would have funded 30 minute evening services has been redirected to fund daytime services (eg 28/29, 67/69, 82/82A) and early morning and evening services that GNE used to operate commercially but are now funded by Nexus.

(27 Jul 2022, 9:58 pm)Andreos1 wrote Apart from people working in the various facilities that operate 24 hours a day, visiting family, hospital visits in Gateshead and Sunderland, having social lives locally and further afield etc?
Nah, nowt.

It's a place that doesn't need or deserve a better service and as a result, those people who could use a bus after 7pm will be encouraged to use alternative means of transport during the day.

But seriously, if it takes someone 5mins in the car during the day to get from Ayton to one of the Asda RDC's in the car or a couple of buses and a change at the Galleries, it's going to be less attractive on nights.

Ditto someone going from Blackfell to Nissan. A few mins in the car or two buses and a change at Concord.

Another network of routes that doesn't work for anyone other than the operator.

(27 Jul 2022, 9:30 pm)DeltaMan wrote Genuine question. Is there anything happening in Washington after 19:00 to justify a better service?

(27 Jul 2022, 9:58 pm)Andreos1 wrote Apart from people working in the various facilities that operate 24 hours a day, visiting family, hospital visits in Gateshead and Sunderland, having social lives locally and further afield etc?
Nah, nowt.



It's a place that doesn't need or deserve a better service and as a result, those people who could use a bus after 7pm will be encouraged to use alternative means of transport during the day.

But seriously, if it takes someone 5mins during the day to get from Ayton to one of the Asda RDC's in the car or a couple of buses, a change at the Galleries and the best part of 45mins - there's only going to be one winner. It goes without saying, it's going to be less attractive on nights. Even before the last lot of Nexus bail outs.

Ditto someone going from Blackfell to Nissan. A few mins in the car along the A1231 or two buses and a change at Concord or The Galleries. Looking at journey of potentially an hour plus depending on connections using public transport.

Donwell to BAE Systems via bus? Nah. Not even worth it.
Sulgrave to Rolls Royce? Someone might have completed it.

I've not even bothered working out how difficult it would be to get to other key employment sites beyond the Washington boundary, in places like Drum Industrial Estate or Team Valley.
I just know its pretty much impossible to see the value in ditching the car and making the switch to bus.

Another network of routes that doesn't work for anyone other than the operator.

(27 Jul 2022, 10:03 pm)DeltaMan wrote With enough volume to justify a service? I find that very hard to believe

(27 Jul 2022, 10:03 pm)DeltaMan wrote With enough volume to justify a service? I find that very hard to believe

(27 Jul 2022, 10:16 pm)Andreos1 wrote 67,000 people living in Washington and many more travelling from outlying areas just for work, every single day on a 24 hour basis. 
Yet not enough volume to justify a service... 

(27 Jul 2022, 10:15 pm)Ambassador wrote Because absolutely nobody has tried in the last 30 years to offer the service to Washington. It’s lost hope of a metro in our life time., it’s bus network is a complicated mess and they’ve literally driven people to the car.

Unimaginative commercial teams are looking at hybrid working and not seeing opportunity, they are seeing cut cut cut and superfluous changes especially in Washington

(27 Jul 2022, 10:23 pm)DeltaMan wrote Not to repeat the great MG, but car sized problems have car sized solutions

(27 Jul 2022, 10:23 pm)DeltaMan wrote Not to repeat the great MG, but car sized problems have car sized solutions

---

Washington, like most of the North East is dead after 1900. Its no surprise that buses have followed society in being dead behind the eyes after dark

(27 Jul 2022, 10:30 pm)Ambassador wrote Because if you’re heading out after 7pm…there isn’t a bus or it’s woefully slow 

the dead after 7pm thing is such archaic thinking that infests commercial operators, even Metro try to tempt people on board with theatre offers etc…GNE who are by far the most backward of the regional operators just lower fares on their existing network founded in the 90s  and wonder why nobody bothers

(27 Jul 2022, 10:27 pm)Andreos1 wrote In which case, the population and workforce clog the roads up, avoid public transport like the plague and are victim to incessant complaints from bus operators who find their vehicles stuck in traffic, whilst at the same time seeing a constant downward spiral in usage. 
Repeat ad infinitum.

Which one is it?
The bus network that adapts routes to suit the population or a bus network that stagnates and sees more cuts than a hair dressers on Chester front street?

(27 Jul 2022, 10:37 pm)DeltaMan wrote So let's say a couple of units on the Crowther has a shift change at 10pm. 15 people leave at that time. 1 lives in the Birtley, 1 lives in Fawdon, 1 lives in Hebburn, 1 lives in Biddick. 1 lives in Barmston, 2 live in Portmeads, 2 live in Chester, 1 lives in Houghton, 1 lives in Pelton, 1 lives in Seaham, 1 lives in Cleadon and 2 live near Fewster Square. How do you provide a bus service for that? You can't unless you value placing large quantities of money in the bin and setting it alight.

(27 Jul 2022, 6:35 pm)Storx wrote It still doesn't really make much difference though. GNE at the same time have paid millions to their shareholders while every single tax payer has been finding bus services that the majority will never use whether that's the 23, 84 or 85 etc. 

The 23 runs in local estates or TB14 which I believe it is now which otherwise wouldn't have a service at all. 

The reason it's been cut is because they're funding the 25, 28, 29, 39B, 81, 82, 83, 67 and 69 instead pretty much.

(27 Jul 2022, 10:50 pm)Andreos1 wrote Or compare a couple of units at Crowther, to the huge Asda RDC's, BAE, Rolls Royce, Nissan etc and the thousands rolling in and out several times a day.

If that already busy bus happens to be scheduled to roll through Crowther as the 2 units end their shift of 15 people, then there's a bit of a Brucey Bonus if those 6 staff who live in Biddick, Portmeads, Birtley and Chester jump on and pay their fares!
The operator is quids in, the punters can get home in fairly quick time and it all shows what can be achieved when a plan comes together!

(27 Jul 2022, 10:30 pm)Ambassador wrote Because if you’re heading out after 7pm…there isn’t a bus or it’s woefully slow 

the dead after 7pm thing is such archaic thinking that infests commercial operators, even Metro try to tempt people on board with theatre offers etc…GNE who are by far the most backward of the regional operators just lower fares on their existing network founded in the 90s  and wonder why nobody bothers

(27 Jul 2022, 10:55 pm)DeltaMan wrote But if live in Birtley, and I want to go straight home I am going to use the car. I don't want to travel through the rest of Washington, purely because it works best for the bus operator to run that way in order to provide a service. That's precisely the thing you've accused operators of doing.

(27 Jul 2022, 11:01 pm)Andreos1 wrote Which way would the bus go from Crowther to Portmeads and Birtley via BAE/Rolls Royce?

Unless it's going to do some sort of loop of Harraton and Rickleton (we've clarified Barmston and Biddick are the two other places the Crowther back shift workers are at, so it doesn't really need to do that), it's going to get to Portmeads and Birtley pretty quickly.
Now granted the worker living in Portmeads may be quicker by heading over that footbridge near the services, but for the other workers - it's a no brainer.

(27 Jul 2022, 9:30 pm)DeltaMan wrote Genuine question. Is there anything happening in Washington after 19:00 to justify a better service?

(27 Jul 2022, 11:01 pm)Andreos1 wrote Which way would the bus go from Crowther to Portmeads and Birtley via BAE/Rolls Royce?

Unless it's going to do some sort of loop of Harraton and Rickleton (we've clarified Barmston and Biddick are the two other places the Crowther back shift workers are at, so it doesn't really need to do that), it's going to get to Portmeads and Birtley pretty quickly.
Now granted the worker living in Portmeads may be quicker by heading over that footbridge near the services, but for the other workers - it's a no brainer.

(27 Jul 2022, 11:07 pm)DeltaMan wrote So you would use an additional bus to serve the single figures going to Barmston and Biddick? What about the folk in Seaham and Fawdon in my hyperthetical scenario, do they not matter either?

(27 Jul 2022, 11:07 pm)Storx wrote Washington imo is one of those places that needs someone to sit down and start again. The local services imo need to go outright as they don't work, people don't want to travel for 5 minutes to then change again but there's so many services just zooming by doing nothing.

Does the 56 need to be every 15 minutes bombing straight through or could it be split into 3 services; one doing the 56 every 30 minutes then the other two splitting off doing two separate services around parts of Washington, maybe doing the 84/85 loop?

Does the 8 need to run straight through or it could it be slowed down and serve parts of the 83 like on a Sunday.

Does the X1 need to be every 12 minutes avoiding all of Washington or could some serve parts of Washington similar to the X20/X21/X22 in Ashington or X9/X10/X11 going to Blyth and also doing different routes in Houghton aswell which is equally as bad or could it be split up

Does the 4 need to do an identical route through every 15 minutes or could it be split into 2 30 minutes services doing slightly different routes serving more.

(27 Jul 2022, 11:09 pm)Rapidsnap wrote In most workplaces, people buddy up and get lifts off co-workers.

Example, my mam works at North Tyneside Hospital, she doesn't drive. We live approx 4 miles by road away from it. She either gets lifts from her collegues in the mornings, and usually home in the afternoon. If my brother finishes work on time (usually dependent on whether the electric knitting stays up on the East Coast Main Line) he usually picks her up. Rare occasions I may pick her up, but my shift patterns usually conflict with hers. Only as a last resort she gets a bus to work, and it's 2 buses there and 2 back, it is possible to travel to the hospital on a single bus, but the 317 goes all around North Shields before it goes anywhere near the hospital, and it even loops around the back of it before it gets there.

Another example is people I work with, if they are going in the same direction as me or live somewhere thats only takes a few minutes, I offer them a lift to near their home or to a location where they have more options for their final leg home (so they only need to get one bus instead of two).

I know from experience that Evening travel for a worker is a nightmare, especially before I learned to drive, I used to work all over Tyne and Wear for Coral, one location regularly worked in was Horsley Hill, I would finish there around 2130 and usually I would have to change twice. Usually it was a bus from Horsley Hill to South Shields, then Metro from South Shields to Jarrow or Gateshead, then bus to where I live from respective locations. When Nexus came out with the Demand Responisive LinkUp buses for everyone to use, it was brilliant, I signed up for it and actually booked it a few times from Horsley Hill to Jarrow because my Network Travelticket was valid on it, it meant I only needed to change buses once. The idea was good in theory, but they used Optare Solos, and cost cuts killed the service off. Tees Flex is a similar idea (don't know if it runs so late), but LinkUp ran up to around midnight, and as long as there wasn't a direct bus available at the time, you could book a journey on it with in a certain zone usually to a bus or metro station. They should look at bringing it back, using Sprinters or even electric minibuses.

If anyone needs reminding of a Link Up Bus, this is one of them not long after the service was launched - https://www.flickr.com/photos/gjm-photogenic/49857304481