(02 Oct 2021, 9:48 pm)idiot wrote Well today I walked down to Deptford for some work. And it got me thinkingas it was raining..

Which got me thinking- why don't they register the staff shuttle as a circular and any passenger would be a bonus

(29 Sep 2021, 4:49 pm)Storx wrote Was bored and seen someone mention Team Valley before so thought how you could improve links to it all day.

1 - Current route between Whitley Bay and Gateshead (Hourly)
1A - Current route between Whitley Bay and Gateshead extended to Kibblesworth via 29 route (Hourly)
1B - Current route between Whitley Bay and Gateshead extended to Ouston via 28 route but then loops round Urpeth Grange instead of continuing to Chester Le Street (replaced partially by X32) (Hourly)
28 - Withdrawn (replaced partially by 1B)
28A - Withdrawn (replaced partially by 1A / X32)
29 - Withdrawn (replaced by 1A)
X30 - Reduced to hourly
X31 - No change but works every 30 minutes with X30.
X32 - Stanley -> Beamish -> Pelton -> Perkinsville -> Ouston -> Lamesley -> Team Valley -> NON STOP -> Gateshead -> Newcastle (Every 30 minutes)
34 - Revert to old route missing Pelton.
91 - Withdrawn (replaced by X32)
93/94 - Withdraw peak extras (replaced by X32).

It has a few benefits such as:
Service between Newcastle / Stanley and Team Valley all day (X32)
New bus from Urpeth Grange to Birtley / Newcastle (1B)
Hourly bus link from Byker and beyond to the QE Hospital (1B)
Restores link between Stanley and Gateshead (X32)
Passengers on 29 route now have a service to Newcastle (1A)
Removal of the clearly unprofitable (28/28A South of Ouston).
Quicker service on the 93/94 to take pressure off them between Gateshead and Team Valley.
Removal of peak extras on 93/94.

Losses to be balanced:
Kibblesworth to Birtley with the 28A
Pelton to Chester Le Street to Birtley and the QE on the 28
Reduction of X30/X31 but other benefits brought with the X32.

(03 Oct 2021, 2:39 pm)KingSlayerRBLX wrote i would love to see a service from Consett to South Shields. can be a quick express if you take the quick way to Chester-Le-Street.

heres how i would set it out:

Consett - Leadgate - Annfield Plain - Stanley - Chester-Le-Street - A194 to Tyne Dock - Westoe - South Shields Interchange.
could work well for locals like me who use to get the Coach on a trip to South Shields in the summer holiday period. could work well this service during summer times. can save people time to not go to Durham, Gateshead or even Sunderland to catch the bus to Shields.

i dont know what number i would give it tho. probably the X8 or something

(03 Oct 2021, 3:04 pm)ifm001 wrote I've mentioned somewhere in the bygone era that this used to exist back in the 90s.   It used to run from Stanley to South Shields on a morning then take the folk of Shields amd Washington to Beamish.  Return from Beamish in the afternoon back to Shields  then do fhe return from Shields back to Stanley.  It was popular at the time, but whether South Shields is still the attraction is was 20 odd years ago is another thing.

(03 Oct 2021, 7:20 pm)BusLoverMum wrote "The Arnison Centre has similar potential imo. If not more than Dalton Park, based on the proximity of a number of key employment sites.
That's assuming operators look beyond the traditional bus to/from the city centre and Chester le Street corridor..."

I'm not sure where else the buses from there could go. There's already the arriva 62 and 64, plus GNE X20, 21 and 50. I suppose something could hare along the A167  to give Whitesmocks, Nevilles Cross, Merryoaks and the Arriva land south of the city a direct link but the buses that already go that way never pick up much as, presumably, it's all relatively affluent.

(03 Oct 2021, 7:20 pm)BusLoverMum wrote "The Arnison Centre has similar potential imo. If not more than Dalton Park, based on the proximity of a number of key employment sites.
That's assuming operators look beyond the traditional bus to/from the city centre and Chester le Street corridor..."

I'm not sure where else the buses from there could go. There's already the arriva 62 and 64, plus GNE X20, 21 and 50. I suppose something could hare along the A167  to give Whitesmocks, Nevilles Cross, Merryoaks and the Arriva land south of the city a direct link but the buses that already go that way never pick up much as, presumably, it's all relatively affluent. 

(03 Oct 2021, 3:00 pm)Andreos1 wrote I'm firmly of the belief that if operators really want to push ahead with a 'hub and spoke' model, they need to consider alternatives to the town and city centres they force on passengers now and start to consider alternatives.

Not only do people not work in the town and city centres, like they did in the past. We've seen the growth in out of town business and retail parks. 
Quite often those who work or visit there, can't get public transport to those places. Or if they can, it's usually very limited.

If operators are going to think outside the box and do something different - not too different (we know how much they struggle with change...), why don't they consider creating new hubs and as a result, new spokes.
Could the 'bus station' at Team Valley be improved, so that becomes a hub? They could operate routes to/from there, from places people actually live. Not somewhere that's a current hub, is well out of the general direction and would add 30/45mins on to an average morning commute. 

Dalton Park is seeing an upturn in people using the bus and could easily increase its potential market share and footfall, by making that investment and encouraging people to use the bus to get there from a wide variety of locations (not just Seaham or Sunderland which has traditionally always been the case for bus users). 

The Arnison Centre has similar potential imo. If not more than Dalton Park, based on the proximity of a number of key employment sites.
That's assuming operators look beyond the traditional bus to/from the city centre and Chester le Street corridor...

I'd argue these retail and business parks are the new town and city centres and I think it is time operator's looked at them in that way. 

The GNE express network clearly has a focus in/out of Newcastle. A quick look at the map would indicate it is the hub of the network. I'm not sure needs to be the main/focus/central hub of a series of duplicated routes and services. Particularly when so many of the routes/services skirt the edges of other potential hubs.

(03 Oct 2021, 7:58 pm)Storx wrote Yeah I totally agree if I had to be honest, but then again if we were a real innovate country then there arguably should be a tram/metro line to Team Valley. Then you could connect the buses to the new Team Valley line at the South end and get arid of half of the buses heading anywhere near Newcastle, 28/28/29 for example.

Would work for the P&R which has been rumoured in the area for ages aswell.

If you used the Hexham line I don't see even why it would cost that much, you could easily bridge it off using the abandoned bridge on Bensham Bank and then just run along the side, or the through the middle of Kingsway. Shame we're not innovate like that; The Metro Centre is another prime one and there's already a railway line there sitting to be used and get arid of the likes of 6 going to Newcastle with proper connections to the tram/metro.

I know some will say, 'but it's quicker to bus it all the way' but if we're serious about climate change they shouldn't be there and it works in pretty much every other country in Europe. It's mental how far behind our public transport is imo.

It's how a Hub and Spoke network really should work, with a hub based around a faster type of transport (train / tram / guided busway) at that point rather than like you said being in random towns no-one wants to go to.

(03 Oct 2021, 8:03 pm)Keeiajs wrote I think the Hub and Spoke method does work. But to be honest what else would they use.
What routes would you put that does't use Hub & Spoke, which will makes its money. It is okay to say that this route could go from X-Y-Z-W. But if it doesnt make any money.

(03 Oct 2021, 8:32 pm)Storx wrote Hub and spoke only really works if your connecting to something faster imo.

The 4 is a good example of a bus that works, you get the 4 from Concord to Heworth then get off and get on the faster Metro to finish the rest of the journey. The 19 is another you get the bus from Cobalt to Northumberland Park / Percy Main / The Ferry then change to a faster transport to get somewhere.

When you starting doing a hub and spoke networks to the wrong places when reality most people are travelling elsewhere it doesn't work. Chester Le Street / Birtley to Team Valley is a prime example of that. If using hubs you have to travel all the way to Gateshead then change back unless you want to walk and stand at random bus stops at Low Fell then the bus becomes very unattractive. That's the 'quickest' time using hubs - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.857894,-1.5735903/54.9227997,-1.6198002/@54.9249865,-1.6155984,9205m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m7!4m6!2m3!6e1!7e2!8j1635153300!3e3!5i2, it's way too slow and people going shopping from CLS do and will go to Team Valley rather than Low Fell which there's 10 buses an hour to.

It's similar from the likes of Washington using hubs rather than bus stops in the middle of nowhere - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.8875862,-1.5510761/54.9227997,-1.6198002/@54.9112859,-1.5861678,10336m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m7!4m6!2m3!6e1!7e2!8j1635153300!3e3!5i1

Or you could just drive in 10 - 15 minutes and cause the congestion every morning on the A1 via the Angel.

(03 Oct 2021, 7:40 pm)Andreos1 wrote The one that jumps out to me is something from the Lanchester/Consett direction. Csnt see why an X5/X15 couldn't head down that way. 

I would also say that it would make a bit of sense to send one of the Stanley services in to the Arnison.
North/South is covered more than enough. Not sure the West or North West is.

(03 Oct 2021, 10:03 pm)BusLoverMum wrote Yes, I suppose it would work if something turned off through Witton Gilbert and/or sacriston. Not sure it would be able to use Potter House Lane, though so would probably have to head into fram and go round that way, so would end up on the same corridor as everything else. Meantime, those passengers can change at the hospital, anyhow, so don't gain a huge amount, other than not having to lug bags across the road. Alternatively, they can meet the x20 at some point.

One of the limiting factors for the arnison centre is that there's not that many ways in. Another is the choice between the bus stop next to Sainsburys and the bottleneck there or the ones by lidl that the 50 uses which are less convenient but less susceptible to delays.

(03 Oct 2021, 10:11 pm)Keeiajs wrote Its because of where they put that stupid McDonalds, But also it is 1 way. It is good for a terminus. However passing through going to Durham/Sunderland you need to go over to Lidl which is a pain.

(03 Oct 2021, 10:29 pm)Jimmi wrote The only thing diversions into the likes of the Arnison Centre is increased journey times, passengers in Langley Park weren't best pleased that the more direct 13 service was replaced with the X20 (old 14) due to the increased journey time (but, but, Xlines... Better Than Ever?!).

I do think there is some potential for some more links to places like the Arnison Centre but some sadly do come at the cost of increased journey times although retail parks have been badly served for a long while especially in the North East, Team Valley retail Park is a bit of a walk away but Teesside Park has been the worst for years for poor accessibility by public transport where until the last few years aside from a half hourly bus from Stockton during the daytimes the nearest stopping service was the 36/37/38 with around 10 mins walk along a rather grim looking road next to the railway line.

As well as retail parks I think more services could be diverted into or at least near places of employment and education, I mean think even some X20 trips could be sent via Doxford International as from the Durham direction passengers are expected to get off on the main road with a bit of a walk to the site or change at Houghton to a 55 (assuming connection times even work well enough), Stagecoach diverting their X24 (as X24A) via Doxford hasn't done them any harm, if anything it's helped them as have actually seen people boarding the afternoon one there when I've been doing some spotting/observing there before.

Think there's still some more potential for some cross city links in Durham although more so with Arriva now than GNE such as sending either the 6 or 7 to the Arnison Centre.

(03 Oct 2021, 10:03 pm)BusLoverMum wrote Yes, I suppose it would work if something turned off through Witton Gilbert and/or sacriston. Not sure it would be able to use Potter House Lane, though so would probably have to head into fram and go round that way, so would end up on the same corridor as everything else. Meantime, those passengers can change at the hospital, anyhow, so don't gain a huge amount, other than not having to lug bags across the road. Alternatively, they can meet the x20 at some point.

One of the limiting factors for the arnison centre is that there's not that many ways in. Another is the choice between the bus stop next to Sainsburys and the bottleneck there or the ones by lidl that the 50 uses which are less convenient but less susceptible to delays.

(04 Oct 2021, 10:37 am)Rob44 wrote Blimey... some people have changed there tune on here. I mentioned a while back that GNE should stop at gateshead an people could get off and use the metro ( as it was intended be de reg and the grief i got. Now people are suggesting the customers in Birtly Kibblesworth etc alight at team valley at 1030 on a dark wet windy evening and wait for a bus to take them to tow rather than sit on a bus that takes them direct??!!

(04 Oct 2021, 11:05 am)Andreos1 wrote I've always been of the opinion that there doesn't need to be a chain of buses following each other in and out of the town. 

With a new, improved, fancy bus station (or rail network if storx gets his way), TVTE has an all signing/all dancing hub. It works for those working on the valley and works just as well at 10.30 at night too. Much better than a random stop on Durham Road (one of the options they encourage currently!)

(04 Oct 2021, 11:50 am)Rob44 wrote to be fair this wasn't aimed at you. I tend to agree with 99% of what you post!  But you could say Gateshead is a hub but how many buses turn around there and return to kibblesworth, birtly QE hospital, wreckenton? Not many I tell you.  I may have made this up but I'm sure when the Metro first started in the 80's the buses that did continue to Newcastle only dropped off at Gateshead metro - if you were in Gateshead and wanted to get to Newcastle the Metro ( and maybe the cross tyne service 1 ) were the only choices. Now it seems like GNE rival the metro by charging slightly less to get to Newcastle as do arriva from haymarket to regent centre.

If you are comparing team valley to a bus stop on Durham road personally i choose durham road due to the pubs i could pop into. I don't fancy sitting in McDonalds or costa then having to leg it to the bus stop for my connection. I rather be in a pub having a pint and just have to cross the road to the bus stop. Obviously talking about team valley as it sis now. If they spent ALOT of $$$ on it this may be different)