(19 Feb 2020, 8:13 pm)S830OFT wrote It would be nice if 7424 - 7426 could be reallocated to Belmont for the summer, allowing the 2008 ADL E400s to see use on the X93.

(19 Feb 2020, 8:31 pm)S830OFT wrote They could always trial 7552 on the X93 and then maybe send 4x E400MMCs from Ashington.

(19 Feb 2020, 9:29 pm)scanialover wrote Does the yearly revenue/operating costs warrant the purchase of the new vehicles mentioned? It would be good (and logical) but given that we seem to live in a return against investment situation, I somehow think not. Of course that theory seems to go to the wall when we look at the Transdev Coasliner operation which regularly receives brand new vehicles and I would suspect it has the same earning capacity as the X93, busy in the summer months but fairly quiet/steady the rest of the time.

(19 Feb 2020, 9:29 pm)scanialover wrote Does the yearly revenue/operating costs warrant the purchase of the new vehicles mentioned? It would be good (and logical) but given that we seem to live in a return against investment situation, I somehow think not. Of course that theory seems to go to the wall when we look at the Transdev Coasliner operation which regularly receives brand new vehicles and I would suspect it has the same earning capacity as the X93, busy in the summer months but fairly quiet/steady the rest of the time.

(20 Feb 2020, 12:09 am)L469 YVK wrote I'd say as a starting point if Arriva get a big investment in the near future, this is what they should do as a starting point:

- 17x ADL E400MMC (ZF) for X21 / X22 (incl 2x spare)
* 7541-50 go to Blyth for 308 with 7551/52 as spares for 308/X10/X11
- 14x ADL E400MMC (ZF) for X10 / X11 (incl 1x spare)
- 6x Scania E400MMC (ZF) for X18
- 5x Scania E400MMC (ZF) for X15
- 6x Scania E400MMC (ZF) for X93

(19 Feb 2020, 9:41 am)Storx wrote Personally I'd say Killingworth is less than the whole of North Tyneside though plus they'd be able to simplify the 52 / 54 into other bus routes which they run anyway. I'm not sure the locals would mind as their much cheaper than both GNE and Arriva anyway.

Weirdly I think Stagecoach would be a better fit for Ashington as they have more experience in long distance bus routes and might actually run the Berwick buses with appropiate buses (coaches like in their Scottish work) rather than Enviro's which aren't really fit for the distance of the journeys. The routes ideally would be better to be like Citylink in Scotland which they have a 35% share of the ownership with a possibly a extension to Edinburgh creating a new link between the two cities and the towns inbetween. Whereas GNE excluding the X9 / X10 don't really have any long distance routes which are mostly non-stop.

(20 Feb 2020, 5:54 am)GNE6312 wrote In regards to the mention of coaches Ashington used to run some primas on the expresses and they were fine even with their age (V reg) however due to DDA regulations being put into place they had to be stood down and moved over to the training. fleet primas also Done the 685 before being moved to Ashington but even though they had years left in them arriva had to consider the costumers & laws and replace them with the max upgrade but I do think coaches should be brought back.

(20 Feb 2020, 6:17 am)scanialover wrote It's difficult to envisage coaches ever making a return to service work given the DDA regulations and then the impact this could have on timings; it takes time now with conventional low floor vehicles.

---

The issue of new fleet is a concern as well. Obviously it's speculation and ideas but it all appears to evolve around the Northumbria area. Granted the routes discussed could well be sone of the profitable ones but my concern, being based on Teeside and a regular user of the X93, is that we end up with the cast offs should new fleet be acquired. We've had the experience before and it never worked.

(20 Feb 2020, 12:45 am)Jimmi wrote Thing is though, Coastliner probs still has a reasonable passenger turnover from passengers heading to/from York & Leeds in the winter whereas I can't seem to say the same for the X93 as Middlesbrough is the closest to those two, Scarborough could compare to York to some extents, maybe Whitby too although less in the way of shops there. X93 likely just gets enough to be sustainable in the winter months.

(20 Feb 2020, 7:49 pm)Storx wrote I'm not sure if this has been done before but surely a way to get around this issue is to upgrade two routes. One bus route which is borderline requires single / deckers capacity and the X93.

Then buy a fleet of DD's and a fleet of singles then just swap them around between the two routes. Maybe the 7. In the winter months have the single fleet on the X93 where the capacity isnt need and the DD fleet on the 7 where traditionally buses are more busy as everyone is working plus christmas shopping etc. Then in the summer take some of the DD's off the 7 and replace them with the singles on the X93 where the X93 is busier with people going on holiday and the seaside whereas the 7 is generally quieter due to the school holidays, bank holidays etc.

Seems the most sensible route rather than wasting deckers all year around on the X93 all year round bar the logistical nightmare. I would've picked a Stockton or Redcar route but don't believe anything there warrants deckers.

(20 Feb 2020, 8:43 pm)Jimmi wrote The Darlington 7 is pretty busy all year round so not the best of solutions, if anything I would actually like to see the 7 get a full double deck allocation during the daytime, one of the two Belmont boards is now booked for a decker on weekdays after I addressed issues with capacity including the morning run to Framwellgate Moor for New College students, deckers certainly required in September when the college year begins with the 5A also usually requiring a decker for the morning Bishop Auckland College run for at least the first month, 7 has been quite busy this week with the schools being off.

(20 Feb 2020, 8:43 pm)Jimmi wrote The Darlington 7 is pretty busy all year round so not the best of solutions, if anything I would actually like to see the 7 get a full double deck allocation during the daytime, one of the two Belmont boards is now booked for a decker on weekdays after I addressed issues with capacity including the morning run to Framwellgate Moor for New College students, deckers certainly required in September when the college year begins with the 5A also usually requiring a decker for the morning Bishop Auckland College run for at least the first month, 7 has been quite busy this week with the schools being off.

(20 Feb 2020, 9:58 pm)GNE6312 wrote Here is my suggestion:

7x Plaxton panther LEs (with rear axel steering) for the X20 (+2) spare
Features: high backed seats with seat belts, free WiFi, USB charging & wheelchair ramp & bay

6x Plaxton leopards (like the Lothian Country ones) for the X14 (+2 spare)
Features: high backed seats with seat belts, Free WiFi, USB charging, curtains, quiet low emission engine & wheelchair ramp and bay

7x Plaxton panoramas (with rear axel steering) for the X15 (+ 2 spare)
Fearures: high backed seats with seat belts, Free WiFi, Toilets (if facilities in the depot allow), tabels (4 on each deck), USB charging, wireless charging, seat back tray tabels, curtains, quiet low emission engine, wheelchair ramp and bay

Cascades:
7401-6 to Ashington for the X18 (temporarily to mermanent dependent on a sustainable bus/coach being found)
7511/2 kept as spare decker at Ashington replacing 7484/6, 7514-7 to the Belmont for th£ X12 releasing 4 pulsars to blyth replacing 1401-3 with one extra spare, 7529-33 to Redcar/Whitby for the X93 (+2 spare meaning only 1 spare ALX needs allocated in the summer) finally omnis cascaded around the region or country.

(20 Feb 2020, 11:49 pm)Jimmi wrote I still don't understand why we didn't go for the B9s from Yorkshire for the summer X93s, 1808 performed well when I rode it on there, sadly fear the fact the engine went during the trial made them an unattractive option compared to the B7s Arriva were gonna get for the North East anyway, so probs thought might as well use them, same spec (with addition of USBs) didn't help those B9s had already been refurbished so wouldn't have been a good case to then refurb them again.

I honestly don't know what Arriva could go with for the X93 now, E400s just die when they see a hill which is in no way ideal on the X93, I wasn't impressed with the StreetDeck demo on the hills either so that leaves not much suitable you could realistically go for, think E400s would have to suffice.

(21 Feb 2020, 9:52 am)mb134 wrote I think newer E400s would be the best bet for the X93 when it requires new vehicles. 

I've had both 14 and 64 plates on the X18 recently that have performed well up hills and manage to reach 60+ no problem along straights. Wherever I've had an MMC they've also performed well, and I imagine if they were bought for the X93 Arriva would spec the gearbox correctly. 

Add to the fact that Wright build quality was awful before they went under and that we don't have a clue what it'll be like under new ownership, while ADL products now are very solid, everything seems to point to MMCs.

(21 Feb 2020, 10:02 am)streetdeckfan wrote As long as they don't go for the 4 cylinder they should have plenty of poke. GNE went for the 4 cylinder with their E400s and they feel like they're about to roll back down on the way up Dunston Bank (same with their E200s in Whickham)

As for the quality with Wrightbus, we'll know what it's like under the new owners once GNE eventually receives their StreetDecks. Their 16 plate StreetDecks are pretty shoddy, but the 67 plates are a vast improvement, I can't say what it was like before they went into administration, but it certainly has to be better than what ADL were like a year or two back!

Having said that, so far GNE's E200/E400s have been fairly solid, with the only real issues coming from the awful quick release windows that are more rattly than a Streetlite door!

(21 Feb 2020, 10:42 am)mb134 wrote I believe that ANEs current MMCs are the 6.7L engine so that shouldn't be an issue. 

To be fair I don't think ADL have had poor build quality for a number of years now - the 14 plate E400s onwards seem in good shape, with the 2009 batch possibly the worst offenders. 

To me Wright looked to be doing everything on the cheap for a number of years, the emergency exit door on the Streetlites a prime example. The quick release glass isn't an issue on any of the E400MMCs I've been on, be it Arriva or Stagecoach so I can't comment there.

(21 Feb 2020, 11:00 am)streetdeckfan wrote I had a ride on Arriva's 17 plate E400MMCs on the X21 and it was a horrific experience, I genuinely had to change buses because I couldn't tolerate the creaking and rattling coming from just about everywhere upstairs. The one I got on the way back was better, but not by much, it was still fairly rattly. The Unilink ones I got down in Southampton were about on par with GNE's so I can't say whether it's the general quality improvements or just Arriva's lack of maintenance.

From what I've been told, the issues with the quick release glass is more to do with them needing adjusting rather than an inherent issue, but all of GNE's E400s, and a few of their E200s have horrendous creaks and rattles coming from the windows, and you can visibly see the windows shaking as it goes over bumps, and if you touch the window, you can feel it flexing.

There's no way I can defend the Streetlites, although bar the emergency door, they do seem alright. The only other rattles I've picked up on are coming from equipment added by operators like displays and those awful Metro boxes that they never seem to secure properly! From my experience at least, if you ignore the emergency door (which admittedly is pretty difficult), the E200s are just as loud as the Streetlites, except they're more creaky than rattly, if that makes sense!

Same with the StreetDecks, as I said before, GNE's 16 plates aren't the best quality wise, but I can't fault their 67 plates, they seem to be screwed together very well! (also, don't be fooled by my name, I'm not oblivious to the many shortcomings of the StreetDecks!)

(21 Feb 2020, 10:02 am)streetdeckfan wrote As long as they don't go for the 4 cylinder they should have plenty of poke. GNE went for the 4 cylinder with their E400s and they feel like they're about to roll back down on the way up Dunston Bank (same with their E200s in Whickham)

As for the quality with Wrightbus, we'll know what it's like under the new owners once GNE eventually receives their StreetDecks. Their 16 plate StreetDecks are pretty shoddy, but the 67 plates are a vast improvement, I can't say what it was like before they went into administration, but it certainly has to be better than what ADL were like a year or two back!

Having said that, so far GNE's E200/E400s have been fairly solid, with the only real issues coming from the awful quick release windows that are more rattly than a Streetlite door!

(21 Feb 2020, 6:00 pm)BusLoverMum wrote The 6 is less in demand over the summer months but gets so busy with students that it could easily add more deckers to its pvr in term time.

(21 Feb 2020, 10:14 pm)L469 YVK wrote GNE's E400s are 6 Cylinder, the same as Arriva. The only difference being that GNE's ADL E400MMCs are fitted with ZF gearboxes unlike Arriva & Stagecoach who spec'd theirs with Voith gearboxes.

Only thing I can think why they'd struggle up Dusnton Bank is that an economy setting could be turned on (if a GNE inside would be able to confirm). 

ADL E400MMCs with ZF gearboxes would be more than adequate for most routes Arriva operate. But for the X93, the Scania E400 MMC would perhaps be a more suitable alternative. 7401-04 could then be transferred to Ashington for the X20 with 7405-06 acting as float spares as well as providing extras for the summer PVR increase on the X93.