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+--- Thread: Go North East September 2023 changes (/showthread.php?tid=4324)
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - streetdeckfan - 12 Jun 2023
The day we get the E400s on the X21 is the day I stop using the bus.
I shouldn't have to duck while walking upstairs because some idiot thought it would be a good idea to order low height buses for routes that don't need them.
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - L469 YVK - 12 Jun 2023
(12 Jun 2023, 6:54 pm)streetdeckfan wrote The day we get the E400s on the X21 is the day I stop using the bus.
I shouldn't have to duck while walking upstairs because some idiot thought it would be a good idea to order low height buses for routes that don't need them.
Good job you don't live in Northumberland I take it or use Stagecoach's Newcastle routes as Arriva & Stagecoach mostly order low height E400 / E400MMCs not forgetting Arriva's DB300 Gemini 2's at Blyth.
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - Storx - 12 Jun 2023
(12 Jun 2023, 6:48 pm)L469 YVK wrote To be honest, the X30/X31 would be better back to every 15 minutes but using single deckers instead as before Nov 2019 (maybe ex Green Arrow E200MMC's).
Then all E400MMC to Riverside for for X10 & X21 with scope for the X9 to be re-instated (total PVR of 15/16 if X9 returned depending on X21 layover). X45/X71/X72/47 operated using StreetDeck & B5TLs.
It really doesn't need the frequency upped imo. If it's only busy when one bus is cancelled it suggests it's good enough capacity or half empty otherwise.
Not to mention it's one of those routes that won't have many intermediate journeys so 30 people on the bus from Newcastle, it'll like be nearly still 30 by the time it reaches Stanley unlike something like 56 which might pick 15 people from Newcastle, 5 from Gateshead, 5 from the hospital, 5 from Wrekenton, 10 from Concord, 5 from Nissan, 10 from Silksworth before getting to Sunderland and 15 people inbetween those stops travelling to each of them which is a much busier route but the 'bus is dead' as it only has 20 people on max.
Not to mention the 56 in the opposite direction is doing the same whereas the X30 is carting fresh air as no-one wants to go to Stanley or Whickham at 7am in the morning.
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - PH - BQA - 12 Jun 2023
(12 Jun 2023, 6:54 pm)streetdeckfan wrote The day we get the E400s on the X21 is the day I stop using the bus.
I shouldn't have to duck while walking upstairs because some idiot thought it would be a good idea to order low height buses for routes that don't need them.
(12 Jun 2023, 6:58 pm)L469 YVK wrote Good job you don't live in Northumberland I take it or use Stagecoach's Newcastle routes as Arriva & Stagecoach mostly order low height E400 / E400MMCs not forgetting Arriva's DB300 Gemini 2's at Blyth.
Don't see the issue with them personally. I'm about 190cm tall, commute on them daily, and have literally zero problems. I was on a full height B9 the other day and didn't notice a difference.
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - L469 YVK - 25 Jun 2023
How hard would it be for Nexus to add South and Westerly stops on Feetham Avenue & Mead Way?
If Nexus were able to, then the 355 could do somethibg like the following. Great Lime Road would slightly lose out but would at least cover the Mead Way and allow the 355 to extend to Holystone Park and or Whitley Bay half hourly / hourly......
ex Newcastle route: Station Road - Station Road North - Glebe Road - Great Lime Road - Forest Hall Road - Mead Way - Feetham Avenue........
towards Newcastle: The above in reverse
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - V514DFT - 25 Jun 2023
(25 Jun 2023, 10:57 am)L469 YVK wrote How hard would it be for Nexus to add South and Westerly stops on Feetham Avenue & Mead Way?
If Nexus were able to, then the 355 could do somethibg like the following. Great Lime Road would slightly lose out but would at least cover the Mead Way and allow the 355 to extend to Holystone Park and or Whitley Bay half hourly / hourly......
ex Newcastle route: Station Road - Station Road North - Glebe Road - Great Lime Road - Forest Hall Road - Mead Way - Feetham Avenue........
towards Newcastle: The above in reverse
Or they could just not do that, why do that when the obvious choice would be the 353, remember, it used to go to Whitley Bay, i dont know why both the 353 and 354 need to go to North Shields,or why one cant go to North Shields via Whitley Bay to offer a kind of "loop" service, a bit like what Arrivas old X8/X9 used to do,granted those didnt go to North Shields, then time the 51 (or whatever its going to become IF its being replaced) to connect with the 353
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - Storx - 25 Jun 2023
(25 Jun 2023, 11:17 am)V514DFT wrote Or they could just not do that, why do that when the obvious choice would be the 353, remember, it used to go to Whitley Bay, i dont know why both the 353 and 354 need to go to North Shields,or why one cant go to North Shields via Whitley Bay to offer a kind of "loop" service, a bit like what Arrivas old X8/X9 used to do,granted those didnt go to North Shields, then time the 51 (or whatever its going to become IF its being replaced) to connect with the 353
I always wonder if the 53/54 swap around was to cover the 57/57A cutting back at Whitley Bay.
Cramlington lost it's link to North Shields when the 57/57A was cut, so they moved the 53 there to cover it and then pushed all the Cramlington to Whitley Bay traffic onto the one route rather than splitting it.
I know it's off topic but I still think the 57/57A and 317 (or at the least the North Shields to Cramlington section) should be merged together. Then you wouldn't need a Cramlington to North Shields / Whitley Bay especially if you sent the 57A via Fern Drive which wouldn't add any time.
Could then do something like this to cover most of the remaining 317, 335, 53 and 342 and offer more links, there's arguably nothing lost - https://www.google.com/maps/place/Benton+Estate/@55.0204784,-1.582201,14.25z/data=!4m72!1m65!4m64!1m58!2m2!1d-1.5405196!2d54.9899713!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5764859!2d55.0096582!3s0x487e710ec408ebe3:0x920734291f0142a5!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5785226!2d55.0347173!3s0x487e717c66e11225:0x4b2618bbbbf979fa!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5652867!2d55.0213917!3s0x487e719e676b8a73:0xfaa9d46e9fc4c750!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5110524!2d55.0367064!3s0x487e6e01af64abe9:0xd7485a05f7452fcf!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5081705!2d55.0222609!3s0x487e6e1e97be7c2d:0xcc5ec5652276627d!3m4!1m2!1d-1.4908792!2d55.0296484!3s0x487e6e0df354a8b9:0xd283e201dd3e58f5!3m4!1m2!1d-1.4709954!2d55.0230496!3s0x487e6e660dff182b:0x1063d6475533a63a!3m4!1m2!1d-1.4589623!2d55.0115109!3s0x487e6e5894465bdd:0xc55490447cfafb04!3m4!1m2!1d-1.4632539!2d54.998378!3s0x487e6e54918e3703:0x4944c0cb1fd84baf!3m4!1m2!1d-1.4931313!2d54.9939904!3s0x487e6fccf2b836d7:0xd94b5a1565c37f91!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5145464!2d55.0004541!3s0x487e71d5c657005f:0x5fb984a25734c269!1m3!2m2!1d-1.5398515!2d54.9900722!3e0!3m5!1s0x487e7173507759c5:0x5859cdd4f9223c25!8m2!3d55.017784!4d-1.575568!16s%2Fg%2F1q67r0cxx?entry=ttu
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - L469 YVK - 25 Jun 2023
(25 Jun 2023, 11:17 am)V514DFT wrote Or they could just not do that, why do that when the obvious choice would be the 353, remember, it used to go to Whitley Bay, i dont know why both the 353 and 354 need to go to North Shields,or why one cant go to North Shields via Whitley Bay to offer a kind of "loop" service, a bit like what Arrivas old X8/X9 used to do,granted those didnt go to North Shields, then time the 51 (or whatever its going to become IF its being replaced) to connect with the 353
I get what you're saying, but it's more about opening up more options if stops in the opposite direction are added along Mead Way and Feetham Avenue. Gives a lot more scope for replacing the 51 too and covers other issues too such as GNE's driver numbers at Riverside depending how much extra capacity Percy Main will have. Also taking into account, that Nexus could 'partially subsidise' parts of the 51 picked up by the 57 rather than having to go to a full tender process.
Option 1
* 1x 355 per hour to Holystone Park
* 1x 355 per hour (omits Holystone Park) to Whitley Bay following the 51 route from Holystone
* 57 operated by Percy Main and extended to Hadrian Park. Limited stop between Civic Centre and Coast Road / Station Road only calling at Cradlewell. Then Wiltshire Drive > Station Road North (East Benton Rise Loop) > High Farm > Battle Hill Drive > Hadrian Park
* 307 omits Hadrian Park
Existing PVR's (regardless of operator) - 14.5
- 51 - 2.5
- 55 - 2
- 57 - 4
- 307 - 6
New PVR's (regardless of operator) - 15 +0.5 increase but increased frequency for East Benton Rise & Wiltshire Drive
- 57 - 6
- 307 - 5
- 355 - 4
Option 2
* 1x 355 per hour to Whitley Bay but also serving Holystone Park
* 1x 355 per hour to East Benton Rise via Palmersville > Benton ASDA > Whitley Road
* 57 operated by Percy Main and extended to Hadrian Park. Unlike Option 1, serves all stops along the Coast Road and doesn't serve Station Road North & East Benton Rise/
* 307 omits Hadrian Park
Existing PVR's (regardless of operator) - 14.5
- 51 - 2.5
- 55 - 2
- 57 - 4
- 307 - 6
New PVR's (regardless of operator) - 15 +0.5 increase but increased frequency for Wiltshire Drive
- 57 - 6
- 307 - 5
- 355 - 4
And using Nexus' 400M guide, would only leave some parts of Great Lime Road not covered (although still within a reasonable distance of alternative stops) - see attached screenshot including 355 route via Meadway & Forest Hall if stops were to be added in the opposing direction too.
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - V514DFT - 25 Jun 2023
See i was thinking this aswell
51 Newcastle- Whitley Bay current to West Allotment then 53 (353) to New York, 54 to Whitley Bay
353 Cramlington- North Shields current 53 (353) to West Allotment the current 51 to Whitley Bay then 57A to North Shields
354 Newcastle- North Shields current 54 to Foxhunters then picks up the 317 route from Preston Grange Morrisons to North Shields
355 Newcastle- Holystone-Newcastle as follows current 55 to Forest Hall, then Forest Hall Road, Great Lime Road, Whitley Road, Holystone, Whitley Road, Great Lime Road, Feetham Avenue, Meadway, rejoining the current 55 back to Newcastle
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - Busu284 - 25 Jun 2023
I wonder if in July we will get some info from each company as all we know is that GNE registered a 352/3/4/5. It'll be interesting it's a big market and any company would jump at the chance to extend or have a new service
Wonder if we will get a big consultation list of services to be changed or extend. Stagecoach could benefit from it as well like extension of the 18 to Forest Hall or even Killingworth or even the 38. There's many chances for any of them to push for it. Even arriva themselves could do it. Could even slightly reroute some routes (X8/57A/ sping to mind round Annitsford. Just my opinion
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - V514DFT - 25 Jun 2023
(25 Jun 2023, 2:30 pm)Busu284 wrote I wonder if in July we will get some info from each company as all we know is that GNE registered a 352/3/4/5. It'll be interesting it's a big market and any company would jump at the chance to extend or have a new service18 to Forest Hall wont happen, it used to go to Forest Hall, they chopped it at both ends to become what it is now, it was replaced by the 6 and 7, which was then chopped and replaced by GNE's offering of the K3 which was withdrawn in full, and that was just before Covid
Wonder if we will get a big consultation list of services to be changed or extend. Stagecoach could benefit from it as well like extension of the 18 to Forest Hall or even Killingworth or even the 38. There's many chances for any of them to push for it. Even arriva themselves could do it. Could even slightly reroute some routes (X8/57A/ sping to mind round Annitsford. Just my opinion
The 38 also used to go to Forest Hall when it was the 38 and 64, the 38 was curtailed at the Freeman and replaced with the 18 and 19, the 64 was withdrawn in full and replaced with the current 63 which also replaced the 64A which ran evenings and Sundays, 19 was withdrawn later on and just became the 18 on its own
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - L469 YVK - 25 Jun 2023
So here is a timing sample of the 355 if extended to Holystone Park & Whitley Bay.
Evening & Sunday journeys would operate a slightly different route.
Timetable
Evening variation
Loop around Holystone, omits Clousden Hill and Glebe Road
Sunday variation omits Clousden Hill and Glebe Road only. Journeys to Whitley Bay additionally serve Holystone Park before or after Holystone and West Allotment.
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - V514DFT - 26 Jun 2023
51-55 cancellations are starting to appear on VOSA, looks like nothing is replacing the 51
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - Thomas12 - 26 Jun 2023
(26 Jun 2023, 9:38 pm)V514DFT wrote 51-55 cancellations are starting to appear on VOSA, looks like nothing is replacing the 51
There probably will he something, but if Nexus are putting it out to tender then we won’t know for a while.
The section between Holystone and Whitley Bay is already funded by Nexus so that is likely to continue regardless of what happens to the rest of the route.
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - L469 YVK - 27 Jun 2023
Another option forgetting Wiltshire Drive for a moment.......
- 355 - extended to Whitley Bay and serving Holystone Park with a revised route around Meadway
- 356 - as per 355 to Palmersville then extended via Benton ASDA to East Benton Rise
Current Mon-Sat PVR:
- 51 - 2.5
- 55 - 2
New Mon-Sat PVR:
- 355/356 - 4 (355 = 2.5 & 356 = 1.5)
Current evening PVR:
- 51 - 1
- 55 - 1
New evening PVR (NCL - Palmersville increased to half hourly):
- 355 - 1 - To Holystone Park only doing an anticlockwise loop
- 356 - 1
Current Sunday PVR:
- 51 - 2
- 55 - 1
New Sunday PVR (NCL - Palmersville increased to half hourly):
- 355 - 2
- 356 - 1
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - XQ Zero - 01 Jul 2023
I know I said I wasn't going to put the 352-355 timetables on this thread, but as the services are registered and a copy of each timetable can be obtained from the Traffic Commissioner, it is fair to say that the times are public knowledge. There have not been any changes registered to any of these timetables yet. Hopefully the attachment opens.
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - DeltaMan - 01 Jul 2023
(01 Jul 2023, 7:03 am)XQ Zero wrote I know I said I wasn't going to put the 352-355 timetables on this thread, but as the services are registered and a copy of each timetable can be obtained from the Traffic Commissioner, it is fair to say that the times are public knowledge. There have not been any changes registered to any of these timetables yet. Hopefully the attachment opens.
Very interesting that Saturday timetables are also labeled Bank Holidays.
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - Busu284 - 01 Jul 2023
(01 Jul 2023, 7:03 am)XQ Zero wrote I know I said I wasn't going to put the 352-355 timetables on this thread, but as the services are registered and a copy of each timetable can be obtained from the Traffic Commissioner, it is fair to say that the times are public knowledge. There have not been any changes registered to any of these timetables yet. Hopefully the attachment opens.
Interesting that the 354 will serve Four Lane Ends to Killingworth
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - Thomas12 - 01 Jul 2023
(01 Jul 2023, 7:57 am)Busu284 wrote Interesting that the 354 will serve Four Lane Ends to Killingworth
Looks like the 355 is operating via West Farm Avenue instead of the 54.
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - citaro5284 - 01 Jul 2023
(01 Jul 2023, 9:49 am)Thomas12 wrote Looks like the 355 is operating via West Farm Avenue instead of the 54.
And no mention of Four Lane Ends on the 355 timetable either?
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - Storx - 01 Jul 2023
(01 Jul 2023, 11:14 am)citaro5284 wrote And no mention of Four Lane Ends on the 355 timetable either?
If they've made that swap then its a stupid change.
The 54 is about connecting Gosforth to Longbenton not to link them to Newcastle where they've got a 12 minute service on the Metro or a bus every 15 minutes on the 62/63 whichever it is.
But then again if you don't want to go to Newcastle then your not meant to use a bus regardless.
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - DH9 - 01 Jul 2023
Something needs to go past Benton View Park for the Civil Servants. I'm assuming this is a typo?
There's always a gap between the Metro failing and the replacement buses starting to run and the 55 (lesserly so the 52) plugs this.
I note a reduction from 3 to 2 buses per hour beyond this and any bus along there needs to run until after 8 p.m. (even if only hourly after 6 p.m.) when Benton View Park shuts down for the day.
(01 Jul 2023, 11:14 am)citaro5284 wrote And no mention of Four Lane Ends on the 355 timetable either?
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - V514DFT - 01 Jul 2023
I'd be surprised if they send the 355 down there and not serve Four Lane Ends or DWP, but saying that, they're supposed to be moving into town when the buiding is completed
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - DaveFromUpNorth - 01 Jul 2023
Re Benton Park View...
It is interesting to leave it out however looking and thinking logically....
This is a service aimed for the long term...
It is far beneficial to avoid Four Lane Ends and place the bus through Quoram and Balliol
Why wouldn't you want a slice of the pie?
Think of it
ARRIVA will still operate X services to Newcastle via Quorum and Balliol
GATESHEAD Central Taxis run a successful secured service from nexus through there...
Stagecoach runs services through there...
GNE does not it makes sense to run the service through there
With regards to HMRC Benton View it is closing soon and relocating to Newcastle City Centre
Existing workers use the metro in "peak times" and actuall6 bus users opt for 62/63 Heaton Road as the bus stop is closer to the gates to get to work
Benton Park Road is now a bypass road for buses really however putting the service through Baliol business park will be beneficial
Remember a bus is supposed to pick up passengers and drop off not save a few minutes here and there...
Re: issue with metro link when they are off won't be a thing when these new metros start will they?
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - L469 YVK - 02 Jul 2023
I think the big sticking point with the new routes & times will be the loss of connections from Killingworth to NT Hospital.
I think one of the 353/354 needs dropped from Cobalt and instead doing a loop down and back up Rake Lane.
Even better......GNE, Stagecoach, Arriva, Nexus and Northumberland CC sit down and assess all "local / secondary" routes to better utilise resources come the next tender process for next March. Could give a hell of a lot more stability too rather than the constant chopping, changing and cuts. A prime example was the merger of the Wallsend - Howdon section of the 41/41A and the former 11 into the new 317. That looks to be a pretty stable route now.
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - Busu284 - 02 Jul 2023
Just noticed something on thr 352/353 timetable
353 is following the normal 53 route (guessing) cause Fern Drive to Cramlington is slightly confusing as nothing is mentioned
However something popped my attention about the 352. The 352 now also mentioned Fern Drive/Burradon Road which is at the top of Annitsford (Shell Garage & Henry Cooper) meaning the 352 won't serve Dudley Village & John Willie Sam's Centre which is odd but I wonder if this bring up a thing that bugged me.
Dudley (not included Annitsford) doesn't have a Blyth link anymore but used to back in the day (X4/X5) making me think I wonder if the X8 will be rerouted via Dudley to pass the 52 route between Cramlington & Camperdown like it did back in the day. This is just a theory as it would reinstate the Blyth route to Dudley & still keeps the every 30 minute service
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - Storx - 02 Jul 2023
(02 Jul 2023, 8:12 pm)Busu284 wrote Just noticed something on thr 352/353 timetable
353 is following the normal 53 route (guessing) cause Fern Drive to Cramlington is slightly confusing as nothing is mentioned
However something popped my attention about the 352. The 352 now also mentioned Fern Drive/Burradon Road which is at the top of Annitsford (Shell Garage & Henry Cooper) meaning the 352 won't serve Dudley Village & John Willie Sam's Centre which is odd but I wonder if this bring up a thing that bugged me.
Dudley (not included Annitsford) doesn't have a Blyth link anymore but used to back in the day (X4/X5) making me think I wonder if the X8 will be rerouted via Dudley to pass the 52 route between Cramlington & Camperdown like it did back in the day. This is just a theory as it would reinstate the Blyth route to Dudley & still keeps the every 30 minute service
Doubt it, but total speculation territory, I wouldn't be surprised if the 57A goes back to doing the 53 route which is used to do in it's 11 days. It's having severe timekeeping issues lately and would speed up the journey times and give Fern Drive an Arriva service.
It and the 19 pretty much follow each other through High Pit anyway.
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - Ex-conductor - 03 Jul 2023
It's interesting that the timetables for the 353 and 354 specify the stands they will use in the new bus station at North Shields. First I've seen.
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - Adrian - 09 Jul 2023
(02 Jul 2023, 5:12 pm)L469 YVK wrote I think the big sticking point with the new routes & times will be the loss of connections from Killingworth to NT Hospital.
I think one of the 353/354 needs dropped from Cobalt and instead doing a loop down and back up Rake Lane.
Even better......GNE, Stagecoach, Arriva, Nexus and Northumberland CC sit down and assess all "local / secondary" routes to better utilise resources come the next tender process for next March. Could give a hell of a lot more stability too rather than the constant chopping, changing and cuts. A prime example was the merger of the Wallsend - Howdon section of the 41/41A and the former 11 into the new 317. That looks to be a pretty stable route now.
I'd say even under the guise of enhanced partnerships, operators might be prevented under competition law for sitting down and essentially planning a competition free network.
Sent from my SM-S916B using Tapatalk
RE: Go North East September 2023 changes - busmanT - 09 Jul 2023
(02 Jul 2023, 5:12 pm)L469 YVK wrote I think the big sticking point with the new routes & times will be the loss of connections from Killingworth to NT Hospital.
I think one of the 353/354 needs dropped from Cobalt and instead doing a loop down and back up Rake Lane.
Even better......GNE, Stagecoach, Arriva, Nexus and Northumberland CC sit down and assess all "local / secondary" routes to better utilise resources come the next tender process for next March. Could give a hell of a lot more stability too rather than the constant chopping, changing and cuts. A prime example was the merger of the Wallsend - Howdon section of the 41/41A and the former 11 into the new 317. That looks to be a pretty stable route now.
Nexus might well provide something for the low number of passengers travelling to/from N T Hospital, rather than adding a loop to the 353/354.
Indeed, it is time that the operators and local authorities did, what they legally can, to plan jointly the secondary routes.
The fact that the Nexus 335 overlaps the Arriva 53 in several areas can't help with the viability of the 53.