+- North East Buses (https://northeastbuses.co.uk)
+-- Forum: Local Bus Scene (https://northeastbuses.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Management & Infrastructure (https://northeastbuses.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Thread: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses (/showthread.php?tid=3594)
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - Storx - 13 Jul 2023
(13 Jul 2023, 7:05 am)busmanT wrote £73.5m for capital spending, £90m for revenue spending between now and March 2025 - a significant sum.
According to the publicly available papers for the Joint Transport Committee, £17m is being spent on the BSIP fares.
It's absolutely nothing, £10m of capital spending per council area wouldn't piss in a packet in comparison to the austerity cuts that have been took off them at the same time. Taking money from one hand and then giving a trickle back isn't a significant sum.
Not to mention the real time cuts that have happened because of the inflation the same government caused which hasn't been reflected.
£73.5 for Tyne and Wear would be good, but not for the majority of the North East stretching from Berwick to Barnard Castle.
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - Adrian - 13 Jul 2023
(13 Jul 2023, 7:05 am)busmanT wrote £73.5m for capital spending, £90m for revenue spending between now and March 2025 - a significant sum.
According to the publicly available papers for the Joint Transport Committee, £17m is being spent on the BSIP fares.
For anyone else that's interested, item 9 (page 89 onwards) covers this in the July agenda pack, which is available here.
In addition to agreement of the £17m budget allocation mentioned above, the second recommendation is to "Approve the variation of the BSIP Capped Fare Scheme set out in Appendix 1"
It's not very clear what the amendments are from the papers being provided, but I presume that'll be covered by Tobyn (or whoever from TNE) when they present the paper. That being said, I thought I'd take an extract from what's presented in the July agenda pack and what was presented in April, and run a comparison on them. The key differences I can see are:
- Scheme will now be administered by Network One (this may have always been the intention, but not confirmed).
- In the Capped Fare Scheme document (July agenda pack - pg.101 onwards);
- Schedule 4 Clause 5 (Adjustments to baseline data) has been renumbered to Clause 7, with subsequent clauses renumbered accordingly.
- Two new clauses 5 (Reimbursement for Revenue forgone for Adult Day Tickets) and 6 (Estimated Revenue for Adult Fares) have been inserted.
I may be wrong here, but my skim-reading of it is a change to completely reimburse operators of any perceived lost revenue overall; e.g. through singles/returns/commercial day tickets, where these multi-modal tickets have been purchased and used instead. I had previously understood it to be a like-for-like reimbursement on the difference between the Network One equivalent and the new price cap (para 17 and 18).
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - citaro5284 - 19 Jul 2023
Cheaper Metro and bus fares agreed in £50m cash injection for North East public transport
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/cheaper-metro-bus-fares-agreed-27348653
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - Busu284 - 19 Jul 2023
(19 Jul 2023, 7:14 am)citaro5284 wrote Cheaper Metro and bus fares agreed in £50m cash injection for North East public transport
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/cheaper-metro-bus-fares-agreed-27348653
Hahaha yes. Screw the £9.10 & £12.70 tickets. Way cheaper now
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - citaro5284 - 19 Jul 2023
(19 Jul 2023, 11:22 am)Busu284 wrote Hahaha yes. Screw the £9.10 & £12.70 tickets. Way cheaper now
Press release now from TNE....
https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/latest-news/transport-leaders-to-invest-50-8-million-into-regions-bus-network/?fbclid=IwAR2WOsHmi5-_pZziDNSMYDch_2MN8oHQKdSV7xmhT8bg8xfAUutWpiXZdrY
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - Andreos1 - 19 Jul 2023
(19 Jul 2023, 12:09 pm)citaro5284 wrote Press release now from TNE....
https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/latest-news/transport-leaders-to-invest-50-8-million-into-regions-bus-network/?fbclid=IwAR2WOsHmi5-_pZziDNSMYDch_2MN8oHQKdSV7xmhT8bg8xfAUutWpiXZdrY
A sticking plaster to cover a gid big wound, that operators don't actually seem either to have the will to fix or actually have the capability of actually fixing.
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - Drifter60 - 19 Jul 2023
A region-wide multi-operator day ticket will be introduced at £6.80 for unlimited travel by bus, Metro and Ferry across all of Tyne and Wear, Northumberland and Durham. Currently the existing equivalent – the North East Explorer ticket costs £12.70 meaning passengers will save 46% on this fare alone.
A little bit disingenuous that statement, whilst I welcome this particular ticket which will mean better options for those needing two operators or just even the flexibility to use another operator if they’re disruptions etc. The explorer ticket covers a lot more areas, namely the Tees Valley region + the 685 to Carlisle & a chunk of North Yorkshire too. So yes 46% saving, but you’re not getting as much for it.
I do welcome the plans but I can’t help but feel like it’s geographical politics to not include the Tees Valley. When there’s arguably a lot of cross boundary travel.
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - busmanT - 19 Jul 2023
(19 Jul 2023, 1:49 pm)Drifter60 wrote A little bit disingenuous that statement, whilst I welcome this particular ticket which will mean better options for those needing two operators or just even the flexibility to use another operator if they’re disruptions etc. The explorer ticket covers a lot more areas, namely the Tees Valley region + the 685 to Carlisle & a chunk of North Yorkshire too. So yes 46% saving, but you’re not getting as much for it.
I do welcome the plans but I can’t help but feel like it’s geographical politics to not include the Tees Valley. When there’s arguably a lot of cross boundary travel.
Tees Valley is a different combined authority which gets its own funding stream (BSIP+) and can make its own decisions on how to use the money.
For those who want to travel across the boundary between the “North East Combined Authority” and the “Tees Valley Combined Authority” there are still operators own tickets and Explorer.
(19 Jul 2023, 12:22 pm)Andreos1 wrote A sticking plaster to cover a gid big wound, that operators don't actually seem either to have the will to fix or actually have the capability of actually fixing.
If the new fares attract new passengers then the sticking plaster won’t need to be as big.
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - Andreos1 - 19 Jul 2023
(19 Jul 2023, 2:26 pm)busmanT wrote Tees Valley is a different combined authority which gets its own funding stream (BSIP+) and can make its own decisions on how to use the money.
For those who want to travel across the boundary between the “North East Combined Authority” and the “Tees Valley Combined Authority” there are still operators own tickets and Explorer.
If the new fares attract new passengers then the sticking plaster won’t need to be as big.
I'm a big fan of lower fares.
But as we've seen many times already, lower fares don't guarantee success.
They're only part of the cure.
The biggest issue is finding out where passengers are going and needing to be and adapting the network to suit.
There's that famous map at Beamish of the Northern network way back when.
It's not really changed much in all the years since, despite huge population, demographic, workplace and culture changes.
Nobody went anywhere on a Sunday, they all went to town/city centres for the shopping and those who worked, generally worked in the major local employer.
We all know that's not the case now and if we are honest, a lower priced day ticket and a couple of additional bus lanes/traffic lights, that do nothing but inconvenience car drivers, isn't going to make that much difference in the grand scheme of things.
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - Storx - 19 Jul 2023
Good to see the money is going to the roads budget and replacing traffic lights.
Ignoring the fares side, you'd almost believe that Northumberland and Co. Durham don't exist which is nothing new up here.
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - Michael - 07 Aug 2023
‘Sunderland’s worst roundabout’ to be replaced with new traffic light system
A roundabout dubbed ‘the worst in Sunderland’ is to be replaced with a new traffic light system. Work is scheduled to begin in spring 2025.
However, a North East Joint Transport Committee, at which Sunderland City Council was represented by its leader Cllr Graeme Miller, agreed on July 18 to allocate £33.2million of funding from the Government to upgrade traffic signals and key junctions across the region as part of the Bus Service Improvement Plan.
https://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/people/sunderlands-worst-roundabout-to-be-replaced-with-new-traffic-light-system-4245443
About time!
It was lethal when I went to Broadway Juniors - a lass in my year was knocked over and ended up breaking her leg in 3 places, that was in 2000... seen many close calls during rush hour too.
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - 54APhotography - 07 Aug 2023
(07 Aug 2023, 2:58 pm)Michael wrote ‘Sunderland’s worst roundabout’ to be replaced with new traffic light system
A roundabout dubbed ‘the worst in Sunderland’ is to be replaced with a new traffic light system. Work is scheduled to begin in spring 2025.
However, a North East Joint Transport Committee, at which Sunderland City Council was represented by its leader Cllr Graeme Miller, agreed on July 18 to allocate £33.2million of funding from the Government to upgrade traffic signals and key junctions across the region as part of the Bus Service Improvement Plan.
https://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/people/sunderlands-worst-roundabout-to-be-replaced-with-new-traffic-light-system-4245443
About time!
It was lethal when I went to Broadway Juniors - a lass in my year was knocked over and ended up breaking her leg in 3 places, that was in 2000... seen many close calls during rush hour too.
In all fairness the traffic chaos on Chester Road is more likely to be caused by the roundabout at the bottom of the hill. But any work to change to a Sandhills type layout should be replicated there, and at the worst of all Bridge Street farce leading onto the Wearmouth Bridge. Miller and Co have their heads up their arses when it comes to traffic. That's why the 'strategic' corridor ends at the Bridge Street roundabout ...
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - Michael - 07 Aug 2023
(07 Aug 2023, 3:20 pm)54APhotography wrote In all fairness the traffic chaos on Chester Road is more likely to be caused by the roundabout at the bottom of the hill. But any work to change to a Sandhills type layout should be replicated there, and at the worst of all Bridge Street farce leading onto the Wearmouth Bridge. Miller and Co have their heads up their arses when it comes to traffic. That's why the 'strategic' corridor ends at the Bridge Street roundabout ...
Ye, that's where the work is happening, I think it was made worse when they added more lanes in and didn't change the roundabout at all, hopefully this helps but I doubt it... work starts in Spring 2025 - can imagine, its going to be chaos... massive diversions for the buses too no doubt.
Bridge street has always been bad too, even before the road was changed.
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - 54APhotography - 07 Aug 2023
(07 Aug 2023, 3:31 pm)Michael wrote Ye, that's where the work is happening, I think it was made worse when they added more lanes in and didn't change the roundabout at all, hopefully this helps but I doubt it... work starts in Spring 2025 - can imagine, its going to be chaos... massive diversions for the buses too no doubt.
Bridge street has always been bad too, even before the road was changed.
Indeed, the biggest factor, which councils fail to react to is cars on the road. A fix five years ago is now overwhelmed. Bridge Street is a disaster for public transport, council should ban all cars and taxis from that area, force them to use alternate routes, yes that puts pressure elsewhere, but sometimes only one bus can get out in the stupidly short cycle, and the right turn off St. Mary's is often fouling the path.
Suggestions of X24 using Kyall Road and Hylton Road probably won't happen so expect big delays on that route
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - Storx - 07 Aug 2023
Traffic lights there will not make things better, I can say that with pretty much confidence.
There's way too many flows for them to work as there's roughly 6 sequences.
Another one for the local 'experts' which have improved places such as South Gosforth, Gosforth, Heworth, Sandy Lane, Findus Roundabout, Four Lane Ends with there fully freeflowing traffic at all times now. Not sure what this has got anything to do with buses either. Sounds like they're topping up their highways budget.
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - Michael - 07 Aug 2023
(07 Aug 2023, 3:37 pm)54APhotography wrote Indeed, the biggest factor, which councils fail to react to is cars on the road. A fix five years ago is now overwhelmed. Bridge Street is a disaster for public transport, council should ban all cars and taxis from that area, force them to use alternate routes, yes that puts pressure elsewhere, but sometimes only one bus can get out in the stupidly short cycle, and the right turn off St. Mary's is often fouling the path.
Suggestions of X24 using Kyall Road and Hylton Road probably won't happen so expect big delays on that route
Its going to be a nightmare - massive bus delays unless they somehow work around the actual work to do "normal routes" but don't think that's possible due to junction set ups.
Hopefully the bus companies are told in advance (like 4 months) to get diversions sorted before they officially start work but known the council, it'll be a week before.........
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - 54APhotography - 07 Aug 2023
(07 Aug 2023, 4:03 pm)Michael wrote Its going to be a nightmare - massive bus delays unless they somehow work around the actual work to do "normal routes" but don't think that's possible due to junction set ups.Aye indeed. Think SCNE could use this as a measure for the X24, sending it alternate routes to Hastings Hill could be a good pointer as to where more income can be made. Despite being that fastest and most useful in terms on onward travel, at times the X24 is down to single figures inside... Observing stops on diversion routes often throw up interesting figures
Hopefully the bus companies are told in advance (like 4 months) to get diversions sorted before they officially start work but known the council, it'll be a week before.........
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - F114TML - 07 Aug 2023
(07 Aug 2023, 3:37 pm)54APhotography wrote Indeed, the biggest factor, which councils fail to react to is cars on the road. A fix five years ago is now overwhelmed. Bridge Street is a disaster for public transport, council should ban all cars and taxis from that area, force them to use alternate routes, yes that puts pressure elsewhere, but sometimes only one bus can get out in the stupidly short cycle, and the right turn off St. Mary's is often fouling the path.The trouble with the roundabout onto the bridge is twits who don't know what a yellow box is.
Suggestions of X24 using Kyall Road and Hylton Road probably won't happen so expect big delays on that route
Set up a yellow box camera there and they'll make a fortune.
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - 54APhotography - 07 Aug 2023
(07 Aug 2023, 6:30 pm)F114TML wrote The trouble with the roundabout onto the bridge is twits who don't know what a yellow box is.
Set up a yellow box camera there and they'll make a fortune.
Indeed, everyday they do it....
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - Storx - 07 Aug 2023
(07 Aug 2023, 6:30 pm)F114TML wrote The trouble with the roundabout onto the bridge is twits who know what a yellow box is and ignore it anyway as they don't want to wait.
Set up a yellow box camera there and they'll make a fortune.
Fixed it for you. Mind bus driver's can't win a medal for it, they constantly block the one outside Haymarket, or used to at least until the fines started rolling in.
I've nearly seen full scale gridlock there by a Stagecoach driver ignoring the yellow box coming out of St Thomas Street and two Arriva buses coming out of Haymarket blocking that yellow box and no-one being able to move.
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - Ambassador - 07 Aug 2023
I ordered my Magpie Mover this week, embracing the new age of digital technology with my digital season ticket and all the bus operators having their own fancy apps. What could Network ticketing offer up? A smart card? A qr code….
What arrives…a cheap bit of laminated cardboard
It’s like living in the dark ages
North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - Dan - 07 Aug 2023
(07 Aug 2023, 9:23 pm)Ambassador wrote I ordered my Magpie Mover this week, embracing the new age of digital technology with my digital season ticket and all the bus operators having their own fancy apps. What could Network ticketing offer up? A smart card? A qr code….
What arrives…a cheap bit of laminated cardboard
It’s like living in the dark ages
Such a pity. Feels like it can’t be too difficult.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - streetdeckfan - 08 Aug 2023
(07 Aug 2023, 9:23 pm)Ambassador wrote I ordered my Magpie Mover this week, embracing the new age of digital technology with my digital season ticket and all the bus operators having their own fancy apps. What could Network ticketing offer up? A smart card? A qr code….
What arrives…a cheap bit of laminated cardboard
It’s like living in the dark ages
At least a cheap bit of laminated cardboard can't run out of battery or have server issues!
I still think they need to put just as much effort into smart cards as they do their apps. If there's one thing I can't stand is having to use apps for everything!
Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - V514DFT - 08 Aug 2023
Never knew North Shields ferry landing was in such a poor state, theyre saying it'll be unusable by 2025
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - Adrian - 08 Aug 2023
(08 Aug 2023, 12:54 pm)streetdeckfan wrote At least a cheap bit of laminated cardboard can't run out of battery or have server issues!
I still think they need to put just as much effort into smart cards as they do their apps. If there's one thing I can't stand is having to use apps for everything!
Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk
No, but it can get lost/stolen, and then continue to be used by someone for the rest of the season.
At least with a digital card, you can cancel one that is reported lost/stolen, and provide the user with a replacement.
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - Storx - 08 Aug 2023
(08 Aug 2023, 2:27 pm)Adrian wrote No, but it can get lost/stolen, and then continue to be used by someone for the rest of the season.
At least with a digital card, you can cancel one that is reported lost/stolen, and provide the user with a replacement.
In fairness, if it used a QR code, you should in theory be able to void the first code and issue a new one.
Obviously reality and what should be possible are usually two totally different things when it comes to things relating to buses.
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - Adrian - 09 Aug 2023
(08 Aug 2023, 4:09 pm)Storx wrote In fairness, if it used a QR code, you should in theory be able to void the first code and issue a new one.
Obviously reality and what should be possible are usually two totally different things when it comes to things relating to buses.
Yeah, but they don't use a QR code as far as I'm aware? Even if they did, it'd only be GNE and Arriva buses that could scan them; there'd be nothing stopping you using Stagecoach, the Metro or other Nexus funded bus services.
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - Storx - 09 Aug 2023
(09 Aug 2023, 9:30 am)Adrian wrote Yeah, but they don't use a QR code as far as I'm aware? Even if they did, it'd only be GNE and Arriva buses that could scan them; there'd be nothing stopping you using Stagecoach, the Metro or other Nexus funded bus services.
Yeah that's true, mind don't GCT have the same ticket machines that accept QR codes now?
The Metro machines should really have QR Code readers retrofitted aswell, like the national rail stations so they can accept paper bus tickets and tickets using an app without having to speak to a member of staff but that's another debate to be fair.
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - Rob44 - 09 Aug 2023
(09 Aug 2023, 9:30 am)Adrian wrote Yeah, but they don't use a QR code as far as I'm aware? Even if they did, it'd only be GNE and Arriva buses that could scan them; there'd be nothing stopping you using Stagecoach, the Metro or other Nexus funded bus services.
is that why loads of customers just show there phone with the QR code viable to SCNE drivers?
RE: North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses - Adrian - 09 Aug 2023
(09 Aug 2023, 1:49 pm)Rob44 wrote is that why loads of customers just show there phone with the QR code viable to SCNE drivers?
Yes. No facility to scan on the Vix ETMs that Stagecoach use.
Although GNE and Arriva both use Ticketer with the QR code scanning, but they don't share the hashes with each other, even for Network One. So something that should be simple, you still have to rely on manual checking of the ticket.