(09 Jul 2023, 7:07 pm)busmanT wrote Nexus might well provide something for the low number of passengers travelling to/from N T Hospital, rather than adding a loop to the 353/354.

Indeed, it is time that the operators and local authorities did, what they legally can, to plan jointly the secondary routes.
The fact that the Nexus 335 overlaps the Arriva 53 in several areas can't help with the viability of the 53.

(09 Jul 2023, 7:46 pm)L469 YVK wrote I don't think adding a loop to the 354, subsequently omitting Cobalt would be the worst idea to retain the Killingworth - NT Hospital link.

Going to be interesting to see what happens with the 51 if not commercially picked up. In it's current form, the 51 couldn't run a strict PVR of 2x standalone and adequately keep to time.

It could run with a PVR of 2x however if followed same route to Station Road North, then via Station Road to the Coast Road (omitting Wiltshire Drive) then non-stop to Newcastle Civic Centre, St Mary's Place and Haymarket.

(09 Jul 2023, 10:08 pm)RMF1254 wrote Bit of a waste of time missing out Wiltshire Drive. As for half a dozen, some buses carry 20 or more into Newcastle and back. What people want is a direct bus into Newcastle from Holystone, East Benton Rise, Fallow Park (which will eventually stretch back to west of Wiltshire Drive) and Hadrian Lodge. Without the bus from my stop into town it’s at least 10-12 minutes walk to Mullen Road then about 20 minutes to Haymarket. Other options, walk to Benton Metro 20 minutes then about 15 minutes to Haymarket when the train arrives, similar timings to Monument via Wallsend Metro and 41a. As for the return it’s an uphill walk back from Mullen Road which is very unpleasant in the rain or wind. Currently Nexus pay for Holystone Park to Whitley Bay (1 bus), the rest is commercial I believe.

(10 Jul 2023, 3:23 pm)L469 YVK wrote Totally right, but the issue for any tender is how would it work with a long layover?

Only way a tendered replacement would work running reliably with a PVR of 2x and no long layovers, would be missing Wiltshire Drive and running limited stop along the Coast Road after Station Road. Now the Wiltshire Drive issue could easily be sorted, but I think I've already mentioned that on numerous occasions.

(10 Jul 2023, 4:05 pm)Storx wrote Monday - Saturday Daytimes
---
50 - Whitley Bay to Backworth (Current 54 Route, omitting Cobalt) - Hourly
51 - Whitley Bay to Newcastle (Current Route) - Hourly
---
PVR 3

Monday - Saturday Evenings and Sunday
---
50 - No Service
51 - Full Route - Hourly
---
PVR 2

W2 - Withdrawn

Sorted imo.

(10 Jul 2023, 7:10 pm)L469 YVK wrote Bearing in mind that maybe with the exception of Stagecoach under exceptional circumstances running an evening & Sunday variation of the 354 to North Shields instead of Whitley Bay, no other tendered routes can really be changed until next March.

Working with existing commercial resources, easiest way to cover the 51 (and 54 after mentioning the NT Hospital part) would be.....

- 354 - Does NT Hospital loop instead of Cobalt. 25/35 split with the 353 between New York and Shiremoor.

- 351 (Tendered) - Same as now to Station Road North. Then via Station Road to the Coast Road / Station Road junction, then non-stop to Civic Centre, St Mary's and Haymarket. - PVR of 2x with approximately 55 min journey time each way.

- 307 - Omits Hadrian Park and serves Wiltshire Drive instead. Improved service to residents in Wiltshire Drive and some of the nearby new builds as noted by other posters.

- 22 - After Churchill Street, Cobalt & Silverlink every 20 mins or Hadrian Park every 20 mins. Evening journeys 1x per hour to Silverlink (and Cobalt) or 1x per hour to Hadrian Park. Sunday daytime journeys serve both Hadrian Park and Silverlink. Any customers wanting points along the Coast Road instead can buy GNE ticket using 41/41A to Battle Hill then 306(QA)/307/309.

Easiest way to solve the 51 issue IMO and gives more buses to other areas too making better use of commercial resources.

(10 Jul 2023, 7:17 pm)Storx wrote The 22, 307 and 354 are commercial services and I can't see them wanting to add buses to the PVR to cover some of those which the 307 and 354 changes are very likely to do.

The 59 (50) will return in some form, there's always been a Backworth to Whitley Bay service.

(10 Jul 2023, 7:50 pm)L469 YVK wrote 22 - PVR would reduce by 1x.

307 - PVR unchanged (and 2-3 mins removed from journey time).*

354 - PVR unchanged - time re-utilised to serve NT Hospital rather than Cobalt.

*Note that serving Wiltshire Drive instead, would allow GNE to reduce the 307/309 evening PVR from 5x vehicles to 4x. Ex Newcastle to North Shields would be 39 minutes and ex North Shields to Newcastle would be 44 minutes.

(10 Jul 2023, 9:03 pm)Storx wrote The 22 is subsidised by Cobalt between Wallsend and Cobalt though so it's a massive PVR increase, as Cobalt won't be subsidising that so they'll have to take on that commercially.

But does it warrant a 10 minute service to Cobalt especially off peak? The 22 already has a good stronghold from High Howdon to Wallsend and Newcastle, causing headaches for GNE's 1. Plus serving Hadrian Park would likely pick up some local fares to Howdon and Wallsend as well as other revenue including fares to Newcastle.

It's also impossible since it's illegal for bus operators to discuss this, so unless it was regulated it can't happen. The fact GNE don't want to serve Wiltshire Drive probably suggest there's no money there, they've had ample chance to run it.

Would it be illegal if it was in the interest of securing services that would otherwise be cut....and actually in the best interests of the taxpayer that some parts could be picked up commercially rather than having to be subsidised / tendered?

Furthermore, previous incarnations of the old 307 before the 51 were never going to be strong enough to just solely depend on Wiltshire Drive whilst sticking out like a sore thumb carrying fresh air amongst the 306 & 308 and former incarnations of the current 307 & 309. GNE eventually had this same issue with the 57 & 58 when they went to Hadrian Park......as they solely relied on Hadrian Park or the small number of people on common sections of the other Coast Road services wanting more 'into' Newcastle or over to Gateshead, whilst the rest would stick with the 306/308/309/310.

The current 307 re-routed via Wiltshire Drive would be strong enough as it would be supported by the North Shields - High Farm section plus the Newcastle to Coast Road / Station Road section including the fact that the 307 is properly coordinated with the 306, 308 and 309 along that common section of route, guaranteeing revenue streams.

Who knows, GNE might take it on anyway it's really not that risky as it's only 1 bus. They just can't do anything without discussing it with Nexus first because of the subsidised elements. Regardless though, it needs to change as it's pathetic half of Whitley Bay have no evening bus service at all.

1 bus potentially carrying fresh air for the most part and running as an oddball is still risky business. 

Personally though, if I was Nexus and needed to save money, I'd be looking at dropping both the 19 and 317 to hour in the evening and Sundays especially on the 19. There's absolutely no need for 2 buses an hour serving a business park which is mostly closed.

(10 Jul 2023, 7:10 pm)L469 YVK wrote Bearing in mind that maybe with the exception of Stagecoach under exceptional circumstances running an evening & Sunday variation of the 354 to North Shields instead of Whitley Bay, no other tendered routes can really be changed until next March.

Working with existing commercial resources, easiest way to cover the 51 (and 54 after mentioning the NT Hospital part) would be.....

- 354 - Does NT Hospital loop instead of Cobalt. 25/35 split with the 353 between New York and Shiremoor.

- 351 (Tendered) - Same as now to Station Road North. Then via Station Road to the Coast Road / Station Road junction, then non-stop to Civic Centre, St Mary's and Haymarket. - PVR of 2x with approximately 55 min journey time each way.

- 307 - Omits Hadrian Park and serves Wiltshire Drive instead. Improved service to residents in Wiltshire Drive and some of the nearby new builds as noted by other posters.

- 22 - After Churchill Street, Cobalt & Silverlink every 20 mins or Hadrian Park every 20 mins. Evening journeys 1x per hour to Silverlink (and Cobalt) or 1x per hour to Hadrian Park. Sunday daytime journeys serve both Hadrian Park and Silverlink. Any customers wanting points along the Coast Road instead can buy GNE ticket using 41/41A to Battle Hill then 306(QA)/307/309.

Easiest way to solve the 51 issue IMO and gives more buses to other areas too making better use of commercial resources.

(21 Jul 2023, 6:04 pm)Storx wrote Was undecided whether to post this here or in the Stagecoach thread so I'll pick here.

Wonder if these 353/354/355 variations might see the 352 cancelled. The 37 seems to be the 52 aswell with the destinations and I can't see GNE wanting to go up against Stagecoach in their turf. Could imagine it only ending one way and it won't be people using GNE.

It'll also be interesting to see what the Arriva changes are aswell as the X8 and 57A have variations aswell and one of them could easily go through Fern Drive.

(21 Jul 2023, 6:20 pm)Dan wrote No, just additional evening/Sunday journeys.


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(21 Jul 2023, 6:26 pm)Busu284 wrote So 57A/X8 are just evening & Sunday journeys changes

(21 Jul 2023, 6:20 pm)Dan wrote No, just additional evening/Sunday journeys.


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(21 Jul 2023, 6:43 pm)Iamtheone8483748 wrote In regards to the other services listed, isn't it normally this time of year GNE have some sort of 'major' changes, so perhaps frequency increases/decreases etc

(21 Jul 2023, 9:45 pm)V514DFT wrote Oh so have GNE won the 351, it says variation 51 (351)

(21 Jul 2023, 9:45 pm)V514DFT wrote Oh so have GNE won the 351, it says variation 51 (351)

(22 Jul 2023, 9:44 am)F114TML wrote I'd love to see a Versa attempt that right turn onto Saltwell Road on the 939. It's a bit of a squeeze even in one of our deckers, which can practically turn in their own length.

(22 Jul 2023, 8:47 am)Michael wrote Tomorrow, I take it these will be the allocations:


39/39A/39B: Graphite Solo's


51/52/93/94: Fleet Livery B9's


99/939 - Solo


Streetlites from the 51/52 repainted in to fleet livery and to Percy Main for the 352-355 (used as spares until September)


Loop B9's repainted and replaces older deckers in the fleet.


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Where will 8339 - 46 will end up I wonder, as they don't have USB's etc?

(22 Jul 2023, 11:47 am)Drifter60 wrote Do Deptford have fleet liveried solos? Or is the 99 going to be ‘Peterlee Purples’?! Also I’m guessing they’ll need more solos in any case, as I’m sure with the 99 (if solo operated) there’ll be no spares.

Could 8339-8346 not go to Consett for the 6? Or is that not enough for the 6?

(22 Jul 2023, 12:00 pm)peter wrote 8339-8346 aren't Euro 6 so no good for CAZ. One option could be for these to go on the 35 (as they all are today coincidentally) displacing the 8320-8327 which are Euro 6 compliant. If these went to Washington for the 25/28/29 the Streetlites could go to Percy Main, with the Orbits split between Percy Main and Consett.