(16 May 2022, 11:10 pm)busmanT wrote I think most of them will go ahead, as Nexus/Durham are very unlikely to replace them on a like for like basis. If Go North East, with its branding, website, app etc. can’t attract enough passengers then local authorities never will. 
Perhaps the 29 will remain largely unchanged route, and perhaps with evening and Sunday journeys added.

if it’s like the Newcastle/North Tyneside changes, Nexus will change/withdraw many of their existing secured services as well in order to fund the replacement services. The 23 seems a likely candidate to go, as it’s in Birtley where the 25, 28 & 82 will all need replacing. The 73 is already duplicated by the 8 for most of the route so must be another candidate for being withdrawn.

(17 May 2022, 12:13 am)Ambassador wrote With no disrespect intended…to what point does a website or app attract passengers? Outside of ye olde North East most areas have moved onto contactless and away from operator bound apps. The GNE website by the way is dreadful unless you can navigate the many puff piece news articles.

and branding….I mean if anything proves branding is an unmitigated disaster it’s these changes.

(16 May 2022, 11:10 pm)busmanT wrote I think most of them will go ahead, as Nexus/Durham are very unlikely to replace them on a like for like basis. If Go North East, with its branding, website, app etc. can’t attract enough passengers then local authorities never will. 
Perhaps the 29 will remain largely unchanged route, and perhaps with evening and Sunday journeys added.

if it’s like the Newcastle/North Tyneside changes, Nexus will change/withdraw many of their existing secured services as well in order to fund the replacement services. The 23 seems a likely candidate to go, as it’s in Birtley where the 25, 28 & 82 will all need replacing. The 73 is already duplicated by the 8 for most of the route so must be another candidate for being withdrawn.

(17 May 2022, 8:10 am)ASX_Terranova wrote It doesn't help when GNE have several services timetabled so close together along certain corridoors. How do you expect have decent passenger numbers if you timetable 2 or even 3 within about 5 mins of each other.

(17 May 2022, 7:00 am)Storx wrote They've been cancelling services for the best part of 6 months because of lack of drivers. If I could drive and that affected me twice I'd never use a bus again even if it was free. 

That could've potentially made someone late for work or having a 2 hour work after work which is unacceptable as a passenger.

A website, pink bus, app, free cookies, free anything won't beat that problem. 

As I said earlier I still don't get how they can possibly judge how things are doing on routes especially like the 82 which had at times 3 hour gaps.

(17 May 2022, 7:00 am)Storx wrote They've been cancelling services for the best part of 6 months because of lack of drivers. If I could drive and that affected me twice I'd never use a bus again even if it was free. 

That could've potentially made someone late for work or having a 2 hour work after work which is unacceptable as a passenger.

A website, pink bus, app, free cookies, free anything won't beat that problem. 

As I said earlier I still don't get how they can possibly judge how things are doing on routes especially like the 82 which had at times 3 hour gaps.

(17 May 2022, 12:13 am)Ambassador wrote With no disrespect intended…to what point does a website or app attract passengers? Outside of ye olde North East most areas have moved onto contactless and away from operator bound apps. The GNE website by the way is dreadful unless you can navigate the many puff piece news articles.

and branding….I mean if anything proves branding is an unmitigated disaster it’s these changes.

(17 May 2022, 7:00 am)Storx wrote They've been cancelling services for the best part of 6 months because of lack of drivers. If I could drive and that affected me twice I'd never use a bus again even if it was free. 

That could've potentially made someone late for work or having a 2 hour work after work which is unacceptable as a passenger.

A website, pink bus, app, free cookies, free anything won't beat that problem. 

As I said earlier I still don't get how they can possibly judge how things are doing on routes especially like the 82 which had at times 3 hour gaps.

(17 May 2022, 8:38 am)Rob44 wrote Like on an evening the 21 followed by the 25 'followed by the 28b along low fell all withing 5 minutes of eachother. Then in the other direction the 28b times to leave gateshead 2 minutes after the 21 towards Chester le street.... from a differnet stand. ITS AS IF GNE WANTS THE 28B TO RUN EMPTY HMMMM

(17 May 2022, 10:37 am)stagecoachbusdepot wrote I do think this is a really valid point that is worthy of some form of scrutiny - whether that be via the media or elected members or whatever.  It does seem that services haven't been given a chance with fairly recent 'fit for the future' changes then huge numbers of journey cancellations pretty consistently ever since - how can they possibly know if low usage is because too few people want to travel, or more that they have been unable to due to abysmal reliability. 

The whole subsidy debate is a tricky one as it probably serves noone to ban an operator from bidding, but equally it is galling to say the least to hear Martijn openly gloating that they know the LAs have cash set aside which will plug some of the gaps, which they hope to win. Hopefully for GNE none of the funders or media will spot that video, hardly paints them in a socially responsible light.  On balance I think the fairest model would be, where an operator has walked away from the commercial service, then the LA stumps up the cash to run the service, the LA should retain any fares.  If the service turns out to be profitable, the LA recoups some of it's outlay.

(17 May 2022, 11:51 am)Ambassador wrote I think we need a glossy 100 plus page 'better than ever' guide to fully explain the changes.

Sure all these cuts will pay for it....

(16 May 2022, 8:24 pm)Unber43 wrote You could run the 9 through the Tunnel leading into Business Parks & Cobalt for added connections. 

You could do 9/9A Every 30 mins Sunderland - North Shields, every 30 Mins North Shields to Heworth via Follingsby & Jarrow

or just introduce the 312 Blyth, North Shields, Follinginsby, Heworth - Haymarket.

(17 May 2022, 11:47 am)BusLoverMum wrote The 65 Sunday changes particularly baffle me. Surely an hourly service to the seaside would more than pay its way, through the summer.

(16 May 2022, 10:14 pm)User2613 wrote I have had a go at working out the current and revised PVRs of the routes mentioned in the changes. I have based it on current interworking patterns with the only exceptions being the x30/31/71/72. Please feel free to let me know if I have missed any or worked anything out incorrectly and I will update the list.

(17 May 2022, 5:07 pm)Wybus wrote You should probably remove the X22 as technically it has a PVR of 0 as it works off Park View scholars, which would still exist

(17 May 2022, 5:07 pm)Wybus wrote You should probably remove the X22 as technically it has a PVR of 0 as it works off Park View scholars, which would still exist

(17 May 2022, 5:16 pm)busmanT wrote Are GNE continuing to run Park View Scholars?

(17 May 2022, 5:21 pm)Wybus wrote I can’t see any reason why they wouldn’t. I also think they run them commercially, rather than them being tenders hence why they’ve run them for years (St Bedes Lanchester being the same)

(17 May 2022, 5:30 pm)busmanT wrote I can't see how they make a profit running them commercially with £1.20 fares each way - at least now some of them go on the X22 and 25 between schools, but they are to be cancelled. 

They aren't in the consultation of course, but could be in the discussions with Durham CC.

(17 May 2022, 5:44 pm)garym67 wrote The X30/31 have been really unreliable recently with many gaps in service, in addition to the planned non-runners due to driver shortages. It's too tightly scheduled on a very congested route into Newcastle which can easily take over 20 minutes to get from Dunston into Newcastle at busy times due to the ridiculous traffic flow over the Redheugh bridge, but that's another story! As soon as one bus gets a delay they pull the next one meaning big gaps in services. If it goes to 30 mins it needs to actually operate every time as you then have a very long wait for the next one if one is missing.

(17 May 2022, 5:30 pm)busmanT wrote I can't see how they make a profit running them commercially with £1.20 fares each way - at least now some of them go on the X22 and 25 between schools, but they are to be cancelled. 

They aren't in the consultation of course, but could be in the discussions with Durham CC.

• I'm assuming it'll be the Silksworth to Sunderland shorts on an evening that'll face the axe, instead running the service hourly throughout. I also think it'd be wise for them to look at introducing a circular route of Washington on an evening, as I'm not surprised that serving in/out via the 2 route isn't picking up many passengers on an evening.
  
• It only really serves Harraton and Lambton, but at Lambton you've got an 82 at xx.41, an 84 at xx.49, the 50 at xx.54 and finally the 2 at xx.57. Seven buses an hour on a night, because no one's looked at it and thought that's the equivalent of using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
  
• Inbound to Washington as a 2A and outbound as a 2 would at least open the door to more customers.
  

• I'm not surprised at the reduction to 15 minute, and aside from kicking out time at Biddick and St Roberts, it probably doesn't need more than that during the day.
  

• The removal of the Sunday journeys, that were only added back in September, is short-termism at it's finest. Surely when a change is proposed and implemented, there's a fully costed business plan to support the change? Either there's been dramatic change since September, or the figures around this didn't stack up from day one.
  
• What I would say on it though, is that if there's a desire to make a Sunderland to Washington service cut on a Sunday, the sensible option would be to remove the 2A runs.
  
• The Sunday service on the 8 could then run via Easby Road/Titchfield Road (to maintain a Sunday frequency) instead of Fatfield Road, and everybody's happy.
  
• I'd also run the Monday to Saturday service via The Avenue, Village Lane and Abbey Road in Washington Village, half the distance of the Brady Square loop but would importantly keep Washington Village on the Go North East network.
  

• When I read this one, it felt like I'd been here before, or at least a couple of times during my close to 18 years of commuting to Durham. When there's wholesale changes around, there always seems to be a temptation to re-route the 50. It inevitably then becomes unreliable and ends up having sections removed in order to improve it.
  
• The diversion via Fulmar Road and Ayton Road is an excessive one proposed, and doesn't seem to be compensated elsewhere on the route, despite it already being lengthy for the only interurban service between Washington and Durham.
  
• If it's a case of needs must, and it does need to happen, then it'd be sensible to compensate by changing the routing in and out of Durham. Sending the 50 via Pity Me (X21) route and sending the 21 down Finchale Road would keep the journey time of the 50 roughly the same and wouldn't adversely impact the 21 journey times.
  

• This doesn't surprise me whatsoever. Removing the link to Concord and replacing it with Waterview Park was a bizarre move, given that the 8 already serves The Galleries to Waterview Park, and most of the population of Washington Village and Barmston Court are beyond working age. This perhaps highlights why consultation is equally as important as local knowledge, and it's not just a case of drawing lines on a map and make them fit.
  

• It sometimes feels like these services change more than you change your underwear, but the latest set of proposed changes are relatively sensible, if not a blast back to the past.
  
• Having a single circular route is sensible, and it's even more sensible if there's different service numbers for the clockwise and anti-clockwise loops.
  
• What wouldn't be sensible, and I fear is hidden behind the proposal, is a move back to the awful route-splitting at the Galleries.
  
• There also needs to be a solution to the route around Barmston. The insistence for every bus to serve the Village Centre and Barmston Court adds about a mile onto the route. If the proposal is a 20 minute frequency in both directions, then maybe that should be an 84/84A and an 85/85A, with one of the three buses per hour serving the least used Barmston route, with the other two serving the most used route.
  

(16 May 2022, 12:22 pm)Andreos1 wrote Who would have guessed it?
Titivations and branding (however desirable) doesn't work and rather than look at network innovations, they're culling routes and reducing the network... 

I'll get my crystal ball out again and predict that due to low passenger numbers, the 2 hourly service they're proposing to the likes of the 65 and X10, will lead to further reductions and even fewer passengers. 
It's like an endless race to the bottom. 

If the powers that be in their ivory towers want any other advice and can get their heads out of their own backsides, I'm happy to offer more detailed advice on a paid for commercial basis. Pretty sure some of the other more savvy, sensible posters on here could do the same. 
I appreciate myself and those other posters may not be part of a clique and will say things that may put the noses out of joint for the established elite - but based on the comments made here over the years and the endless shambles we see eminating out of those ivory towers - maybe those in the ivory towers do need to listen to someone beyond their own echo chamber and maybe they don't know everything after all. 

Oh and this is the toned down, civil version of what I originally wrote.
They're an utter disgrace.

(16 May 2022, 12:32 pm)Andreos1 wrote Nexus and DCC are being thrown over the barrel by GNE here.
Do they bail out a failing private operator unable to do anything other than cut, curtail and repaint or do they look at alternatives?

(16 May 2022, 12:35 pm)MurdnunoC wrote I think the splitting of the 20 is the most amusing change.

For years, GNE tried to convince passengers that the long established 35 (or 535/536 in its previous form) was no good and customers would be better served by extending the 20 to South Shields. IiRC, this was rejected by passengers a few times when consulted, only for GNE to force the change through when that particular avenue was exhausted. So now what do they propose? To split the 20 into two different services. I guess extending the 20 wasn't the best option after all ??

(16 May 2022, 12:52 pm)Wybus wrote Maybe Gateshead Central Taxis would win any new tenders? When that happens that usually goes down well here

I’m guessing that GNE are under pressure from head office as many of these new brands have barely been given chance to succeed, they haven’t even had a full normal post-Covid year to let passenger volumes increase.

(16 May 2022, 1:19 pm)omnicity4659 wrote I'm sitting in longer queues of traffic every week. Places that were free-flowing prior to Covid are now at a standstill.

Covid and "changed working and shopping habits" is the go to excuse for everything within this shambles of a company and I'm getting fed up with it, along with former customers, seldom users, and even their own employees who are also seeing the dire results of the company's actions.

(16 May 2022, 2:59 pm)MurdnunoC wrote It doesn't matter how 'good' GNE buses are with their tables, wireless chargers, and various other bells and whistles which people lavish praise upon. Those are just enhancements to the passenger experience. However, if the service doesn't meet the requirements of where people wish to travel, which is the fundamental purpose of any bus route, those enhancements are nothing more than a pointless PR exercise.

(16 May 2022, 4:42 pm)MurdnunoC wrote At least we now know that the £163m pot of funding, when it materialises, won't be used to bail out the cuts to services proposed by GNE.

(17 May 2022, 5:51 pm)Unber43 wrote sunniside has also be ridiculously bad, was stuck there for 20 mins a few times

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Will the 78 be able to be a double decker if the route was re-routed back through Pelton