(13 Sep 2022, 2:32 pm)F114TML wrote Currently 2x 2, 2x 2A, 1x 22, 1x 23, 4x 39s, 4x 60, 2x 61; so 16 buses per hour - HOWEVER, that is only true for a few stops (Ocean Road - Vilette Road). The 2 joins at Toll Bar Road, 2A at Grangetown, and the 2, 2A and 39s leave at Vilette Road. Equally, is there much need for Old Durham Road to have 14 bph into Newcastle (18 if you add the X1)? I don't know the area too much but it seems a pretty similar situation to me, yet I don't see many people bringing it up. Thing is, all those services connect Sunderland with somewhere else and it just happens that in most cases, Ryhope Road is the quickest and most convenient route. Having said that, diverting some journeys on the 60 (as a 60A or 62 also going to Murton) via QA Road to the Hospital wouldn't hurt anyone, and frankly a direct bus from Murton/Seaham to the hospital would be very useful. Also the 60 needs to be at least every 12 minutes, it's just too busy otherwise, especially if there's a cancellation.

Might be true from what you've seen but it isn't - there's been a couple of times I've been on a 61 playing leap frog with an arriva bus.

(13 Sep 2022, 2:32 pm)F114TML wrote Currently 2x 2, 2x 2A, 1x 22, 1x 23, 4x 39s, 4x 60, 2x 61; so 16 buses per hour - HOWEVER, that is only true for a few stops (Ocean Road - Vilette Road). The 2 joins at Toll Bar Road, 2A at Grangetown, and the 2, 2A and 39s leave at Vilette Road. Equally, is there much need for Old Durham Road to have 14 bph into Newcastle (18 if you add the X1)? I don't know the area too much but it seems a pretty similar situation to me, yet I don't see many people bringing it up. Thing is, all those services connect Sunderland with somewhere else and it just happens that in most cases, Ryhope Road is the quickest and most convenient route. Having said that, diverting some journeys on the 60 (as a 60A or 62 also going to Murton) via QA Road to the Hospital wouldn't hurt anyone, and frankly a direct bus from Murton/Seaham to the hospital would be very useful. Also the 60 needs to be at least every 12 minutes, it's just too busy otherwise, especially if there's a cancellation.

(13 Sep 2022, 4:22 pm)deanmachine wrote A good option might be the 61A route, but instead of going down Toll Bar Road and driving straight past where anyone lives, direct it down past Asda on Leechmere Road. Quite weird on a night how we just drive past where everybody lives and their nearest options are B&Ms at the bottom of the Toll bar, then after that is the stop after the Hollymere pub.

(13 Sep 2022, 6:25 pm)Storx wrote I know what your saying and don't disagree per say but nothing works with each other so they're just compete against each other. Old Durham Road is a bad example btw as it has a destination on it (The QE) so there's a point of them.

A good example though would be the Great North Road in Gosforth with the 43/44/45 which is similar to the Seaham services but they all interwork with each other so provide a 7.5 minute (normally) for the core section of the route then split out further out to different places.

If you could get it work you could easily do it with the 60/61/??. Not sure what that other service could be but PVR wise it would be roughly the same. For the majority of the route you'd improve the service from every 12 minutes to 7.5 minutes throughout taking pressure off the 60 and getting needed passengers on the 61 which is clearly struggling. Everything just fights over the top of each other and there's very little connection.


Isn't the 61A subsidised to cover the 12 which doesn't run in the evening by Stagecoach.

(13 Sep 2022, 6:25 pm)Storx wrote Isn't the 61A subsidised to cover the 12 which doesn't run in the evening by Stagecoach.

(13 Sep 2022, 6:29 pm)Unber43 wrote 61A route would be better than the current 61. 

The thing is with the 60 most of the route is only covered by one service, its only when it gets to new Seaham it joins with the 61. Most of the 60 passengers would get on between Parkside & Deneside which is why the 60 is every 12 mins as such a large part of the route is by itself,especially with the 62 gone so most people who would get the 62 from Dawdon/Seaham have moved onto the 60.

(13 Sep 2022, 6:39 pm)deanmachine wrote You'd still think it would actually run past places where people live/work then just flying down the bypass, after going through Ashbrooke and up Strawberry Bank.

(13 Sep 2022, 6:52 pm)Storx wrote Aye can't argue about that but surely it would be fine if you pulled off the Sunderland to Seaham flows onto a more frequent express service so local services aren't been filled by passengers who arguably should be using the X6 instead but it's too infrequent.

I don't know on that one btw.

Not sure I agree with the 61A though as Murton passengers are being punished even further. Personally I'd be looking at the 2, 2A, 39, 39A. Does there really need to be 8 buses an hour along there or could you just try something new.

Say a new loop service like this which takes part of the 2A, 39A, 39B and 33:

(13 Sep 2022, 7:16 pm)F114TML wrote Your 61/A suggestion - Why take it along Durham Road and not Chester Road, thus opening links to the hospital? Having said that, Murton passengers may be pushed further away from the 61 by the longer journey time. If it (the current IRL one) did the opposite loop (or there was an opposite loop option), it'd easily compete with the car from most places in Murton. Also how are you suggesting this new 61/A handles the Murton loop?

(15 Sep 2022, 12:13 am)Drifter60 wrote Talking about the 61/65 and reliability issue, I hear that resurfacing works are taking place on the B1285 from Dalton Park into Murton, meaning there’ll be no access to Murton from the East/Seaham. Diversion route will be a lengthy 15 minute tour via Hawthorn, Easington village, South Hetton and Easington Lane to come into Murton from the West/Hetton Le Hole side. 4 days full closure apparently with traffic lights on other days across a fortnight.

(10 Oct 2022, 6:15 am)omnicity4659 wrote X67 is already covered by the train and numerous existing GNE services. What needs to change at the MetroCentre is the removal of the park and ride ban in the parking terms and conditions.

X68 is covered by the Metro which is faster than driving, park and ride would be more attractive if Gateshead Council scrapped parking charges so nobody has to pay twice...which just makes it the same price as driving into town anyway.

It's bonkers that they're even trying more park and ride sites without getting the other ones functioning properly. Even a park and walk site located on the Gateshead side of the Tyne would be better than the current P&R offerings.

(09 Oct 2022, 3:52 pm)Unber43 wrote GNE Park & Rides

X67 - Metrocentre - Newcastle City Centre - Another P&R Side North 
X68 - Heworth - Newcastle City Centre 

A1 Coal House Roundabout P&R intergrated into the 21 Route (buses every 5 mins Friday/Saturday and School Hoildays, 10 mins Sunday) Every 7 mins other times, every 20 mins evenings

(10 Oct 2022, 8:09 am)Unber43 wrote But tbf if you look at Durham P&R thats quite successful, however the 20 stand outside of the Retail Park isn't really that popular where the P&R. I only got the idea cos of how many cars I saw Parked in Metro Coach Park on Saturday, and Yes I know their was a football match on.

• Great Park: signposted well from the A1, but poor frequency to Newcastle and long journey times compared to driving.
  
• Regent Centre: Pay and Display car park via an app/coins which is too tight to fit any medium sized car around. Plenty of buses though.
  
• Heworth: Pay and Display car park via an app, plenty of choice for services to Newcastle and Gateshead though.
  
• MetroCentre: Plenty of spare free parking spaces, the facility works on match days, but P&R is currently banned at other times for the main car parks. Reasonable journey times into Newcastle and Gateshead on the existing network.
  

(10 Oct 2022, 1:59 pm)omnicity4659 wrote Durham park and ride is successful (only on a weekend I'd say) because you aren't paying twice, the fare is reasonably cheap and it's not a long drawn out journey to get from car park to city centre. 

Same goes for York, which happens to be an extremely popular park and ride system at all times. Free parking, pay once on the bus.

We've struggled in Newcastle and Gateshead to have a functioning park and ride bus service...

• Great Park: signposted well from the A1, but poor frequency to Newcastle and long journey times compared to driving.
  
• Regent Centre: Pay and Display car park via an app/coins which is too tight to fit any medium sized car around. Plenty of buses though.
  
• Heworth: Pay and Display car park via an app, plenty of choice for services to Newcastle and Gateshead though.
  
• MetroCentre: Plenty of spare free parking spaces, the facility works on match days, but P&R is currently banned at other times for the main car parks. Reasonable journey times into Newcastle and Gateshead on the existing network.
  

You then have the other park and rides for the Metro which are underutilised and expensive due to having to pay twice.

There's a huge car park behind Gateshead College which is always empty at weekends. The car park at the Sage is pretty much deserted. Not a single effort has been put into marketing or operating these as park and walk/ride sites.

So there's seven examples of things to improve before even thinking of opening another park and ride, which will probably also be abandoned before long.

(10 Oct 2022, 1:59 pm)omnicity4659 wrote Durham park and ride is successful (only on a weekend I'd say) because you aren't paying twice, the fare is reasonably cheap and it's not a long drawn out journey to get from car park to city centre. 

Same goes for York, which happens to be an extremely popular park and ride system at all times. Free parking, pay once on the bus.

We've struggled in Newcastle and Gateshead to have a functioning park and ride bus service...

• Great Park: signposted well from the A1, but poor frequency to Newcastle and long journey times compared to driving.
  
• Regent Centre: Pay and Display car park via an app/coins which is too tight to fit any medium sized car around. Plenty of buses though.
  
• Heworth: Pay and Display car park via an app, plenty of choice for services to Newcastle and Gateshead though.
  
• MetroCentre: Plenty of spare free parking spaces, the facility works on match days, but P&R is currently banned at other times for the main car parks. Reasonable journey times into Newcastle and Gateshead on the existing network.
  

You then have the other park and rides for the Metro which are underutilised and expensive due to having to pay twice.

There's a huge car park behind Gateshead College which is always empty at weekends. The car park at the Sage is pretty much deserted. Not a single effort has been put into marketing or operating these as park and walk/ride sites.

So there's seven examples of things to improve before even thinking of opening another park and ride, which will probably also be abandoned before long.

(10 Oct 2022, 2:12 pm)Storx wrote P&R only works if the city has a lack of parking, its difficult to get into the place or its tourists visiting the place. 

P&R will never work for Newcastle imo as it's just a chore. The people who would be using a P&R will be at the Metro Centre or elsewhere and save the hassle.

(10 Oct 2022, 2:36 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Durham P&R works because it's more convenient, and cheaper than parking in Durham! We always use the P&R if we actually have to go into Durham, and even during the week it seems to get good usage.

You'll struggle to find parking in Durham for less than £2 for the day at all, plus you don't have the faff of driving through Durham (even though it's not that bad)

(10 Oct 2022, 2:43 pm)omnicity4659 wrote I would say the main problem with parking in Newcastle is the cost, but that's probably me being tight!

I was using the Durham park and ride in the late afternoon and it was dead on both the out and return (last of the day) journeys. A later service might be of benefit.

(10 Oct 2022, 2:53 pm)streetdeckfan wrote If I'm going into Newcastle, 99% of the time I'm taking the bus. It's too much of a faff figuring out which roads you're allowed down this week!

Which P&R did you use, we usually use Howlands or Sniperly. Howlands seems to get a lot of use by the students

(10 Oct 2022, 2:43 pm)omnicity4659 wrote I would say the main problem with parking in Newcastle is the cost, but that's probably me being tight!

(10 Oct 2022, 4:10 pm)Storx wrote It's cheap compared to most cities like especially the likes of Edinburgh. 

I seen York P&R been mentioned a few times but one thing to note is it's quite clever as it serves secondary purposes. 

The Monks Cross line is additionally the express service to the retail park.

The Askham Bar line is additionally an express service to the massive campus opposite the Tesco down there. 

The Southern one not sure on its name is the express service to the outlet centre.

So even if no-one used the P&R there's still customers going the opposite way to other places.

(10 Oct 2022, 4:30 pm)omnicity4659 wrote I stayed down in Easingwold on a weekday recently and drove to Rawcliffe Bar P&R, every seat was taken from the P&R and there were crush loadings on the way back all the way to the P&R. I think it was a 5 minute frequency too.

(10 Oct 2022, 2:53 pm)streetdeckfan wrote If I'm going into Newcastle, 99% of the time I'm taking the bus. It's too much of a faff figuring out which roads you're allowed down this week!

Which P&R did you use, we usually use Howlands or Sniperly. Howlands seems to get a lot of use by the students