(12 Oct 2022, 11:33 pm)Drifter60 wrote It’s not about that. In this case a person living in Penshaw does not want to go into Sunderland City Centre via Chester Road, just to go back out of the city centre on a bus up Durham Road. It’s far far too convoluted and takes too long. And again it’s all about passenger perception, a friend tells me a family member living in South Hetton won’t use the new 61 to Dalton Park or Sunderland as it ‘goes round Murton twice’ instead she goes into Easington to connect with the Arriva, or waits to get a lift of course. The former will probably save no time at all, but it’s soul destroying sitting on a bus you feel is going around the world to get where you want. That 61 route in the devil, I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again. 

Having said that, for the same reasons outlined above, sending any sort of Sunderland to Seaham bus via Doxford isn’t the answer either, as that would take far too long for those using the point to point. It would have to be a separate service not at the expense of the 60 or X6 and I’m not sure there’s demand. Seaham link isn’t too bad, as you can change at a Ryhope without the need to go in and back out of the bus station. So from the south isn’t too bad, except of course unless you planned on changing from a 22/23 to a 39 and needing two bus operator tickets, but that’s a conversation for another time!! Back to the level of service, even Houghton to Doxford links have been cut back since the 55 is no longer and the X20 temporary withdrawal. I’m sure peak time 20s used to call in, but that doesn’t seem to happen anymore either. The 39’s are the only option and they can’t be a catch all for everyone/everywhere. 

Also, was posted earlier in this thread that Roker to Doxford work service which takes an hour from end to end is again a great idea but really? An hour bus ride for what’s 20 minutes car journey across the city?

(12 Oct 2022, 11:31 pm)ALavery wrote Passenger numbers are falling because of the constant faff on they’re having due to cancellations and loss of services. It’s distrust or simply because they have the money not because ‘oh my god i have to change buses here how awful is that’ 

Also note how I said that for a bus from seaham to newcastle which is 16 mile away and a two hour journey, god forbid you have to get the 56 and the demand is there. A bus from seaham to doxford park isn’t needed as you can get a bus to ryhope and a bus from ryhope to doxford with the most faff being crossing a road. It takes me an hour and a change of bus to get to college every morning but you don’t see me yapping about a bus from seaham then taking a mystery tour up durham road.

(12 Oct 2022, 11:33 pm)Drifter60 wrote It’s not about that. In this case a person living in Penshaw does not want to go into Sunderland City Centre via Chester Road, just to go back out of the city centre on a bus up Durham Road. It’s far far too convoluted and takes too long. And again it’s all about passenger perception, a friend tells me a family member living in South Hetton won’t use the new 61 to Dalton Park or Sunderland as it ‘goes round Murton twice’ instead she goes into Easington to connect with the Arriva, or waits to get a lift of course. The former will probably save no time at all, but it’s soul destroying sitting on a bus you feel is going around the world to get where you want. That 61 route in the devil, I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again. 

Having said that, for the same reasons outlined above, sending any sort of Sunderland to Seaham bus via Doxford isn’t the answer either, as that would take far too long for those using the point to point. It would have to be a separate service not at the expense of the 60 or X6 and I’m not sure there’s demand. Seaham link isn’t too bad, as you can change at a Ryhope without the need to go in and back out of the bus station. So from the south isn’t too bad, except of course unless you planned on changing from a 22/23 to a 39 and needing two bus operator tickets, but that’s a conversation for another time!! Back to the level of service, even Houghton to Doxford links have been cut back since the 55 is no longer and the X20 temporary withdrawal. I’m sure peak time 20s used to call in, but that doesn’t seem to happen anymore either. The 39’s are the only option and they can’t be a catch all for everyone/everywhere. 

Also, was posted earlier in this thread that Roker to Doxford work service which takes an hour from end to end is again a great idea but really? An hour bus ride for what’s 20 minutes car journey across the city?

(13 Oct 2022, 6:11 am)Storx wrote Couldn't someone from Penshaw walk to Shiney Row and get the 39B it's not that far :s

Mind I don't really get why the 39B is express between there and Washington rather than serving the estates.

(13 Oct 2022, 6:47 am)Dan wrote Yes, that seemed to be a suggestion in Andreos’ example - and at that point the difference in journey time is just 9 minutes between bus and car (excluding the walk from Biddick Woods to the stop in Shiney Row, of course - 12 mins in car versus 19 mins on 39B).

So at that point, the comparison is effectively being drawn to having a car on your doorstep and having to walk to a bus stop (because the nearest one mightn’t be served by that bus) - and I just don’t know how this can be overcome as you can’t have a bus from everywhere to everywhere, and for every bus that is diverted you’ll have some qualms that you’re increasing journey times and that’s equally as bad. I see a lot of problems outlined on this forum but not often a solution.

The contract for the 39B (when it was originally tendered as a 37) was for an hourly service that links Tunstall Bank, Doxford Park and Washington Galleries - as Nexus were reducing their spend on some existing services to plug the gaps left by Go North East at the time who withdrew their own commercial services due to low use, I suspect 1 PVR was all Nexus could afford/justify based on passengers per pound of cost.

Right now of course the 39 is running on a reduced frequency and there is lots of layover at The Galleries which wouldn’t normally be there - so currently it could do something (if there was a desire to slow down journey times to open up new links), but if that frequency is reinstated then the links would have to be abolished (or add an extra bus to PVR to allow them to be maintained - and there probably aren’t enough passengers in the area to justify this without abstracting from other services they already travel on).


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(13 Oct 2022, 5:44 pm)Thomas12 wrote A very simple suggestion from me is splitting the Q3 into two routes, Great Park to Newcastle and Newcastle to Wallsend.

It is a complete shambles at the minute (esp for a secured service in part) in terms of reliability - it doesn’t even appear to be mainly down to driver shortages either.

(13 Oct 2022, 9:10 pm)omnicity4659 wrote I used the Q3 yesterday and quite a few people used it for cross-city links.

(13 Oct 2022, 9:10 pm)omnicity4659 wrote I used the Q3 yesterday and quite a few people used it for cross-city links.

(14 Oct 2022, 6:07 pm)V514DFT wrote 19- from Percy Main operates as follows Royal Quays, George Stephenson Way, North Shields Ferry Terminal, Fish Quay, then once per hour extends to Whitley Bay via old 11 route
40- current 41 to Howdon Tynemouth Road then Howdon Lane, Bewicke Street, Rosehill Road (Hail and Ride), Tynemouth Road, Churchill Street, Simonside Avenue, Savory Road, Holy Cross-St Peters Road, High Street East 41- reverse of the 40
311- from Hadrian Park continues to Wallsend via Coniston Road, Ridley Avenue, Tynemouth Road, High Street East, Wallsend Interchange
Q3- split into Q1 and Q2

(14 Oct 2022, 7:20 pm)Storx wrote If we're meddling around with these services and let's just say Arriva win the 19 and 317 contracts hypothetically as this will work better I'd do:

17: Cramlington -> Dudley Lane -> Fern Drive, 57A to Whitley Bay, 317 to North Shields Ferry - Every Hour
18: 57A from Cramlington to Whitley Bay, extended via 317 route to North Shields Ferry - Every Hour
19: 57 from Ashington to Cramlington, current route to Percy Main, old route to North Shields via Ferry first. - Every Hour

40 (Loop): 317 from North Shields to Wallsend, 41 from Wallsend to Hadrian Park, 335 from Hadrian Park to North Shields - Every 30 Minutes
41 (Loop): Reverse of above - Every 30 Minutes
40A/41A: Shorts from Wallsend to Hadrian Park via Wiltshire Drive - Every 30 Minutes

341: 335 from Killingworth to Hadrian Park, extended to Howdon via 41/41A loop
342: No Changes

335/57/57A/317 Withdrawn

Would offer a much better services and more links rather than the current horseshoe routes we currently have all over the place with better connectivity to the Fish Quay / Ferry from all over and make some of the connections actually useful, Howdon to Killingworth; Whitley Bay to the ferry; better Silverlink connectivity etc.

(14 Oct 2022, 7:20 pm)Storx wrote If we're meddling around with these services and let's just say Arriva win the 19 and 317 contracts hypothetically as this will work better I'd do:

17: Cramlington -> Dudley Lane -> Fern Drive, 57A to Whitley Bay, 317 to North Shields Ferry - Every Hour
18: 57A from Cramlington to Whitley Bay, extended via 317 route to North Shields Ferry - Every Hour
19: 57 from Ashington to Cramlington, current route to Percy Main, old route to North Shields via Ferry first. - Every Hour

40 (Loop): 317 from North Shields to Wallsend, 41 from Wallsend to Hadrian Park, 335 from Hadrian Park to North Shields - Every 30 Minutes
41 (Loop): Reverse of above - Every 30 Minutes
40A/41A: Shorts from Wallsend to Hadrian Park via Wiltshire Drive - Every 30 Minutes

341: 335 from Killingworth to Hadrian Park, extended to Howdon via 41/41A loop
342: No Changes

335/57/57A/317 Withdrawn

Would offer a much better services and more links rather than the current horseshoe routes we currently have all over the place with better connectivity to the Fish Quay / Ferry from all over and make some of the connections actually useful, Howdon to Killingworth; Whitley Bay to the ferry; better Silverlink connectivity etc.

(15 Oct 2022, 3:03 pm)cbma06 wrote If Arriva so called wins the contracts, there’s nothing there can do with those services, as the timetables and routes are secured by the local authorities, bus companies can’t changed secured bus services, there are secured for a reason as it’s not profitable to be ran by a business who only wants profits, if Arriva wants to take on those secured service routes then there will have to register those routes commercially and then the local authorities can withdraw the contracts, but if the so called new bus service don’t provide the needs when Arriva changes the services then the secured contracts will have to be registered again.

If you just suggesting a change between 2 or 3 contracts then it’s better to contacts the authorities who secured the contract to see if it’s possible


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(15 Oct 2022, 3:09 pm)Unber43 wrote Could you extend a service and take that part on commerically or not?

(15 Oct 2022, 3:03 pm)cbma06 wrote If Arriva so called wins the contracts, there’s nothing there can do with those services, as the timetables and routes are secured by the local authorities, bus companies can’t changed secured bus services, there are secured for a reason as it’s not profitable to be ran by a business who only wants profits, if Arriva wants to take on those secured service routes then there will have to register those routes commercially and then the local authorities can withdraw the contracts, but if the so called new bus service don’t provide the needs when Arriva changes the services then the secured contracts will have to be registered again.

If you just suggesting a change between 2 or 3 contracts then it’s better to contacts the authorities who secured the contract to see if it’s possible


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(15 Oct 2022, 3:22 pm)F114TML wrote If this were true, the 39B would only run between Washington and Tunstall Bank, and would be numbered the 37.

I believe LAs devide the route and timetable and in their bid, operators can specify a modified timetable, including extensions (in the above example; extending the 37 to Sunderland City Centre and Pennywell) which I assume they'd commercially take the hit on. I don't think they can change the secured section of the route though.

(15 Oct 2022, 3:03 pm)cbma06 wrote If Arriva so called wins the contracts, there’s nothing there can do with those services, as the timetables and routes are secured by the local authorities, bus companies can’t changed secured bus services, there are secured for a reason as it’s not profitable to be ran by a business who only wants profits, if Arriva wants to take on those secured service routes then there will have to register those routes commercially and then the local authorities can withdraw the contracts, but if the so called new bus service don’t provide the needs when Arriva changes the services then the secured contracts will have to be registered again.

If you just suggesting a change between 2 or 3 contracts then it’s better to contacts the authorities who secured the contract to see if it’s possible


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(15 Oct 2022, 6:36 pm)Storx wrote It was all just hypothetical, I don't really expect them to happen but with the bus partnerships it would be nice and attempt to do something with the subsidised services to actually make them commercial by working together with local bus companies to see what can happen. The 62 and 39B extensions are much better use of services than short services duplicating routes and offering nothing worthwhile.

The Nexus services are just a mangled mess right now and it doesn't help Nexus are funding the evening services for the others mentioned there (41/41A/57A).

Arguably it's better for everyone, less subsidies if they are successful and better routes for the passengers. There's still the 341 and 342 there for Gateshead Taxis to get their hands on as they'll never be profitable.

309_310_311_evening suggestion times Oct 2022.pdf (Size 404.36 KB | Downloads 13)

(10 Oct 2022, 2:53 pm)streetdeckfan wrote If I'm going into Newcastle, 99% of the time I'm taking the bus. It's too much of a faff figuring out which roads you're allowed down this week!

Which P&R did you use, we usually use Howlands or Sniperly. Howlands seems to get a lot of use by the students

(04 Nov 2022, 8:30 am)Rob44 wrote I was under the impress the NCC said No to any more buses using the swing bridge on the quay side?  Was a while back so thing might have changed since then