(15 Feb 2015, 5:17 pm)Dan wrote Actually, there is a point in allocating the correct vehicles to bus services.

Since the implementation of the "Sapphire" and "MAX" brands, Arriva North East has placed its services on what could loosely be described as a hierarchy. The services which fall underneath these brands should (in theory) be some of Arriva North East's top performing routes or have the potential to become some of Arriva's top performing routes - making the most profits and/or carrying the most passengers.

The issue with placing services on a hierarchy is simple: there has to be something to separate those services on the hierarchy. Of course, we all know the differences between "Sapphire," "MAX," and a standard Arriva service. Vehicles held under the "Sapphire" brand feature the provision of power sockets, free Wi-Fi, Next Stop Announcements and e-leather seating. Likewise, vehicles held under the "MAX" brand feature the provision of free Wi-Fi and e-leather seating. Customers should not expect any additional features on standard Arriva services, though there are instances whereby some corporate liveried vehicles feature some of the features outlined above.

Services placed under these special brands have seen market growth. Additional features (in the form of new technology) stimulates this market growth. If a service held under one of these special brands is regularly being allocated corporate liveried vehicles - either due to the lack of spare vehicles to the specification of that brand or because they are being allocated elsewhere - then one could argue that customers may look for alternative choices (if possible) and the company may not see the increase in market growth that they had predicted when submitting the capital expenditure to fund the purchase of new vehicles or the refurbishment of existing vehicles in the fleet. The fact that Ashington and Blyth have just received a further branded spare vehicle (for their "Sapphire" and "MAX" services respectively) suggests that management are looking at ways to provide a more constant allocation.

Aside from this, customer confusion is caused. I was on one of Go North East's "SimpliCity" branded Optare Versa the other day, which had been allocated to service 9. Customers on Holmeside put their hands out to signal the driver to stop the bus - not realising that the bus wasn't actually a 2/2A service.

(15 Feb 2015, 6:46 pm)Robert wrote Not even the best depots can maintain a 100% allocation. It should be appreciated that Blyth does have the ability to get buses straight out of the depot and into service to replace a late journey even if it isn't the right type/branded vehicle. Customer confusion can be caused as you have pointed out but that is what the destination is for. Before branding was introduced, all GNE buses looked exactly the same and customers had to rely on the destination displays. Why should branding withdraw the need for passengers to do this? The Sapphire and MAX is an issue but i think it would be wrong to say that they allocate the wrong vehicle types on these services on purpose and is probably down the fact that a bus is VOR. What is wrong is the fact that MAX and Sapphire vehicles get cross-allocated like yesterday for example.

(15 Feb 2015, 4:14 pm)atlantean542 wrote Buses out on 900 this afternoon:
7445,7446
7484,7485,7488,7490,7494
7503,7517
7613,7622

(15 Feb 2015, 7:23 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote People need to stop relying on route branding, if the people read the desty then they'll be fine.

An OAP at a bus stop near me, accidentally got on a Coaster-branded Omnicity, thinking that it would take her to Newbiggin because it had "Coaster" on the front, not knowing that the bus behind it was the X21 to the actual coastal town of Newbiggin.

(15 Feb 2015, 11:15 pm)gtom wrote One wonders how Stagecoach bus passengers cope eh?

(16 Feb 2015, 7:15 am)Dan wrote Even Stagecoach have introduced route branding. In most cases it works around their corporate livery, but certainly not all... We haven't got a great deal of branding by Stagecoach in the North East but perhaps that's due to the preference of local management? Standing on Blackett Street, I know when my 39/40 bus is approaching due to its colour...

(16 Feb 2015, 8:20 am)Robert wrote But we know what is allocated to each route because we are enthusiasts so when a bus comes, we can instantly tell that it  is the bus you are waiting for. The E400 could have easily been on a different route. I know Hybrids off-route is extrememly rare it could have happened so you'd need to check the destination anyway. I wouldn't just trust a bus because of it colour which  is the point i think you're trying to present.

(16 Feb 2015, 8:38 am)Dan wrote You seem to have adopted the mindset that "a bus is a bus" in the eyes of customers - and I totally disagree with you.

Customers can tell the differences between buses. Whilst the size of the vehicle is the main contributing factor to customers differentiating between buses, branding also assists with this. Whenever new buses are launched, customers are able to identify that the new bus is a "posh bus". Whether it's to do with the size of the new vehicle, the smell, or the lack of rattles and squeaks - you do not need to be a bus enthusiast to know the difference between an Optare Solo and an ADL Enviro400.

Although my friends can't turn around and say, "this is an ADL Enviro300", they know the difference between said vehicle type and ADL Enviro200s and Alexander ALX300s. Why? The seating! Those of my friends from school who travel home using South Shields' E1/E2/E6 routes know that buses are usually allocated with three sideways-facing seats behind the driver's cab. They know when it is not one of those buses because no other bus has that seating arrangement; as such, they have to locate another seat on the bus.

I think we're underestimating the ability of customers to differentiate between buses. I can appreciate that not all customers will care about the vehicle type which is allocated to their bus service; however, some do, and this is what some of us seem to be failing to realise. My friends know that "the blue buses on the 60" are equipped with free Wi-Fi - they know that the silver ones allocated to service 61 aren't, so guess which bus they usually get to school?

The point of this debate is for me to prove that there is a point to allocating buses to the correct routes. I have covered the potential for an adverse outcome in the event of the wrong vehicles being allocated to services on a hierarchy, and I have covered the element of customer confusion. Just because you wouldn't trust that an orange bus had been allocated to the "Diamond" services as opposed to another does not mean to say that your next door neighbour Betty or Bill wouldn't. Your neighbours could have poorer eyesight than yourself and have become accustomed to identifying their service in advance of it arriving thanks to route branding. If there was other services which stopped outside of Betty or Bill's front door and one of the vehicles which was supposed to be allocated to that route was in fact allocated to the "Diamond" services means that they could have decided to let the bus go. Going back to my previous example - I'm inclined to suggest that those customers on Holmeside, Sunderland, who put their hand out to signal the driver of my 9 (which had been allocated a "SimpliCity" branded Optare Versa) to stop, may well have raised a complaint due to the fact that what they thought was a 2/2A service didn't stop for them. Obviously, that was not the case, but they're none-the-wiser as they saw a purple bus which should have been allocated to their bus service...

Branding on buses can be a great thing if it's implemented and managed correctly. If it isn't managed correctly, it can be quite the opposite.

(16 Feb 2015, 8:38 am)Dan wrote You seem to have adopted the mindset that "a bus is a bus" in the eyes of customers - and I totally disagree with you.

Customers can tell the differences between buses. Whilst the size of the vehicle is the main contributing factor to customers differentiating between buses, branding also assists with this. Whenever new buses are launched, customers are able to identify that the new bus is a "posh bus". Whether it's to do with the size of the new vehicle, the smell, or the lack of rattles and squeaks - you do not need to be a bus enthusiast to know the difference between an Optare Solo and an ADL Enviro400.

Although my friends can't turn around and say, "this is an ADL Enviro300", they know the difference between said vehicle type and ADL Enviro200s and Alexander ALX300s. Why? The seating! Those of my friends from school who travel home using South Shields' E1/E2/E6 routes know that buses are usually allocated with three sideways-facing seats behind the driver's cab. They know when it is not one of those buses because no other bus has that seating arrangement; as such, they have to locate another seat on the bus.

I think we're underestimating the ability of customers to differentiate between buses. I can appreciate that not all customers will care about the vehicle type which is allocated to their bus service; however, some do, and this is what some of us seem to be failing to realise. My friends know that "the blue buses on the 60" are equipped with free Wi-Fi - they know that the silver ones allocated to service 61 aren't, so guess which bus they usually get to school?

The point of this debate is for me to prove that there is a point to allocating buses to the correct routes. I have covered the potential for an adverse outcome in the event of the wrong vehicles being allocated to services on a hierarchy, and I have covered the element of customer confusion. Just because you wouldn't trust that an orange bus had been allocated to the "Diamond" services as opposed to another does not mean to say that your next door neighbour Betty or Bill wouldn't. Your neighbours could have poorer eyesight than yourself and have become accustomed to identifying their service in advance of it arriving thanks to route branding. If there was other services which stopped outside of Betty or Bill's front door and one of the vehicles which was supposed to be allocated to that route was in fact allocated to the "Diamond" services means that they could have decided to let the bus go. Going back to my previous example - I'm inclined to suggest that those customers on Holmeside, Sunderland, who put their hand out to signal the driver of my 9 (which had been allocated a "SimpliCity" branded Optare Versa) to stop, may well have raised a complaint due to the fact that what they thought was a 2/2A service didn't stop for them. Obviously, that was not the case, but they're none-the-wiser as they saw a purple bus which should have been allocated to their bus service...

Branding on buses can be a great thing if it's implemented and managed correctly. If it isn't managed correctly, it can be quite the opposite.

(16 Feb 2015, 9:43 am)Robert wrote The point i am trying to adopt is that although branding works 99.8% of the time, there is always that 0.2% when it doesn't. People at Ashington and Blyth probably don't allocate buses as badly as they do on purpse and when MAX and Sapphire buses (using this example again) cross, they can't switch them over meaning they have to stay on the services all day. 
I understand that people are able to tell the difference beween a double decker, single decker and a minibus. More people care about the features on the bus than the bus type itself so if a Fab56 B9 had to appear on service 60 (example - i am aware of the low bridge between Seaham and Parkside), they wouldn't care that much because it has free wifi anyway. In your Slimplicity example, did they just see a purple bus immediately assume that it was the bus they were waiting for did they recognise the vehicle type (and the purple)? If it is just the purple, would it have happened if a plain purple solar had came along (or even a branded one for that fact - from a distance you won't be able to clearly see the branding)? It just shows that eventhough a us is branded for a particular route, you still need to check the destination display rather than seeing a bus that you normally get and assume its the service you're waiting for. I very much support branding but i sometimes feel that customers sometimes rely on the system too much and don't bother to take that 2 second look up at the destination display. As i said at the very start of this post, branding can't work 100% of the time.

(16 Feb 2015, 9:53 am)mb134 wrote Not to do with branding as such, more bad assumpion, but when I went to meet my friends in Bedlington the other year they wanted to get the 2 to Morpeth. Now they were obviously accustomed to MPD's turning up, however one of those Scania (?) double deckers arrived (From the N-VVO or M-GRY batches), as I put my hand out they shouted "that's the X21", I had to point out that the destination clearly displayed the "2". So had I not been there, they would have missed their bus, showing to an extent that customers don't really look at the destination anymore, when they really need to be.

(16 Feb 2015, 9:43 am)Robert wrote The point i am trying to adopt is that although branding works 99.8% of the time, there is always that 0.2% when it doesn't. People at Ashington and Blyth probably don't allocate buses as badly as they do on purpse and when MAX and Sapphire buses (using this example again) cross, they can't switch them over meaning they have to stay on the services all day. 
I understand that people are able to tell the difference beween a double decker, single decker and a minibus. More people care about the features on the bus than the bus type itself so if a Fab56 B9 had to appear on service 60 (example - i am aware of the low bridge between Seaham and Parkside), they wouldn't care that much because it has free wifi anyway. In your Slimplicity example, did they just see a purple bus immediately assume that it was the bus they were waiting for did they recognise the vehicle type (and the purple)? If it is just the purple, would it have happened if a plain purple solar had came along (or even a branded one for that fact - from a distance you won't be able to clearly see the branding)? It just shows that eventhough a us is branded for a particular route, you still need to check the destination display rather than seeing a bus that you normally get and assume its the service you're waiting for. I very much support branding but i sometimes feel that customers sometimes rely on the system too much and don't bother to take that 2 second look up at the destination display. As i said at the very start of this post, branding can't work 100% of the time.

(16 Feb 2015, 9:53 am)mb134 wrote Not to do with branding as such, more bad assumpion, but when I went to meet my friends in Bedlington the other year they wanted to get the 2 to Morpeth. Now they were obviously accustomed to MPD's turning up, however one of those Scania (?) double deckers arrived (From the N-VVO or M-GRY batches), as I put my hand out they shouted "that's the X21", I had to point out that the destination clearly displayed the "2". So had I not been there, they would have missed their bus, showing to an extent that customers don't really look at the destination anymore, when they really need to be.

(15 Feb 2015, 5:17 pm)Dan wrote there is a point in allocating the correct vehicles to bus services.

(16 Feb 2015, 10:14 am)Tommy_1581 wrote I wouldn't want to be going up Curly Kews on a double decker!  :s

(16 Feb 2015, 10:28 am)Dan wrote Exactly. I think, as enthusiasts, it's easy for us to assume that 'normal' customers cannot differentiate between different types of buses.

In reality, customers are able to differentiate between different types of buses owing to a number of reasons. We've established issues relating to branding, vehicle size and seating layout. As customers can differentiate between different vehicle types, they have become accustomed to assuming which service is approaching the bus stop when the destination display is not even legible. There are clear downsides to this, as we have established, and it's the reason why (to bring this back to the start of the debate):

(16 Feb 2015, 10:48 am)Robert wrote I've always classed an accident as something that isn't intended to happen.
Lets say that a branded vehicle (or a vehicle that is supposed to be allocated) has developed a problem in the depot or breaks down during the day, the depot has no choice but to send another bus out as a replacement. Even if it is branded for another service. Since the breakdown is unintended, i'd see the wrong allocation in this instance to be an accident.

(16 Feb 2015, 11:21 am)Robert wrote I'd rather get a bus that maybe is branded for another route but gets me to where i want to go rather than not getting there because the depot wants to avoid confusion but if passengers read the destinations, the confusion would be kept to a minimum. The allocators have to act fast when sending a replacement out. Although the want to send a suitable vehicle out, they also want as little delay as possible to be caused to passengers of the affected bus. Sometimes, a suitable corporate vehicle isnt available but a branded vehicle is. I see this as an unintentional incident and therefore, to me, is classed as an accident.
I do love a good debate

(16 Feb 2015, 11:44 am)Dan wrote You don't rely on branding to identify the bus you're using - other customers do. You've said if passengers read the destinations of the buses - some don't. So whilst branded vehicles appearing on the wrong services is not an issue for you, it is an issue for other customers, as some will let buses go, thinking that it isn't the bus they're looking for. Bus operators wouldn't be spending money looking for solutions to monitor wrong allocations if it wasn't an issue, but the fact that some bus operators have suggests it is an issue...

If a suitable corporate liveried vehicle is regularly not available and branded vehicles are deliberately* being allocated to cover for missing vehicles - senior management need to review the spare vehicle percentages at that depot. "TEN" branded Volvo B9TL 6071 was regularly being allocated to the "Tyne Tees Xpress" services to cover for branded Volvo B9TLs. Following service changes, a Volvo B9TL (which was fitted with a tachometer) was repainted so that the "Tyne Tees Xpress" could have a spare vehicle which features the provision of free Wi-Fi and power sockets. Instances of other branded vehicles appearing on the "Tyne Tees Xpress" services have been minimal ever since. When it is not required, it is allocated to the "TEN" services.
* substitute for 'accidentally' if you so wish?

(14 Feb 2015, 11:17 pm)mb134 wrote Just my opinion here, but would long distance routes not benefit from power sockets as part of their MAX refurbishment? 

The X18 for example, 4 hours from Newcastle to Berwick, surely it would be sensible to include power, so that people can use the WiFi for their whole journeys?

(17 Feb 2015, 8:37 pm)mb134 wrote Did Arriva really need to loan all of these for the Metro replacement, they're just sitting there!
Metro Replacement: Regent Centre by mdw9121, on Flickr

(18 Feb 2015, 10:09 am)Jimmi wrote Expect delays to services 7, 8/8A due to roadwork's at Thinford roundabout this week.



Taking ages just to get from Ferryhill to Thinford roundabout.