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+--- Thread: Railway suggestions (/showthread.php?tid=1574)
Railway suggestions - Andreos1 - 20 Aug 2015
Similar to the Metro and bus threads and inspired by talk of the old lines at South Pelaw and Washington - a rail suggestions thread.
Paths and infrastructure may mean these can't be delivered. Then there is cost - but on a boring afternoon of office based admin, I have identified the following suggestions.
Lines to be re-opened or converted to passenger use:
* Barley Mow to Leamside Line at Washington
* Leamside Line between Ferryhill/Hart and Pelaw
* B&T Line upto Ashington
* Stillington line between Ferryhill and Norton
New stations located at:
* Barley Mow. Ideal location on the county border, located near housing and key employment locations. Mainline and local services can call here on split level platforms. Slow lines to be reinstated on ECML.
* Fencehouses. On site of old station
* Penshaw. On site of old pop factory
* Washington South. Old station site
* Washington North. New P&R site close to Nissan/A1231
* Durham P&R.
* Stockton Parkway. Located on the 'triangle' south of Stockton. Platforms on each side, similar to Shipley. One side of the station would need to be a walk away from the other two – or, the track line is adapted
* Norton Parkway. Located on the 'triangle' north of Stockton. Platforms on each side, similar to Shipley. (This would mean that a whole estate of new houses would need to be demolished).
* Stillington
* Ferryhill. Slow lines reinstated with access to both Stillington and Leamside Lines.
* Peterlee
* All B&T stations as per proposals.
Routes:
· Barley Mow – Leamside Line – Pelaw – Heworth – Newcastle – Metrocentre (1tp2h)
· Darlington – all stations to Stockton Parkway – Stockton – Norton Parkway – Stillington – Ferryhill – Leamside Line - Pelaw – Heworth – Newcastle (1tp2h)
· Ferryhill – Leamside Line - Pelaw – Heworth – Newcastle - Metrocentre (1tph)
· Ferryhill – Stillington – Norton Parkway – Billingham – Seaton – Hartlepool (1tph)
· Barley Mow – Newcastle – Manors and B&T to Ashington (1tp2h)
· Metrocentre – Newcastle – Manors and B&T to Ashington (1tp2h)
· All other routes/combinations to stay as they are, calling at new stations if required.
RE: Railway suggestions - MurdnunoC - 20 Aug 2015
Might as well extend beyond Barley Mow towards Pelton, Beamish, Stanley and Annfield Plain. Getting to Pelton would be relatively straightforward if using the old South Pelaw to Consett alignment. Beyond that, you'd need to seek a new route through High Handenhold and Beamish as well as the replacement of two bridges at Shield Row if the line were to follow its original route to the edge of Annfield Plain. Extending beyond Annfield Plain towards Consett would be tricky as roads and houses occupy much of the old trackbed.
RE: Railway suggestions - Andreos1 - 23 Aug 2015
(20 Aug 2015, 1:58 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Might as well extend beyond Barley Mow towards Pelton, Beamish, Stanley and Annfield Plain. Getting to Pelton would be relatively straightforward if using the old South Pelaw to Consett alignment. Beyond that, you'd need to seek a new route through High Handenhold and Beamish as well as the replacement of two bridges at Shield Row if the line were to follow its original route to the edge of Annfield Plain. Extending beyond Annfield Plain towards Consett would be tricky as roads and houses occupy much of the old trackbed.
I thought about that, but with the rebuilding of infrastructure and the alignment you mention, I didn't think it worth it.
Although as it is a fantasy, pie in the sky thread - why not.
The amount of space around Pelaw Jct, could mean a canny sized station could be built there.
Although, not sure the road infrastructure is suitable for a big P&R station.
RE: Railway suggestions - MrFozz - 17 Sep 2015
I have often thought about this...As you said it is pie in the sky, so I will keep it going, my suggestions
The idea that makes sense to me is to
1. Re-open the Leamside Line, and use the Stillington Line, would be good for Nissan, and also use it for Frieght Movements between Tyne Dock and Stockton and Northallerton, take some of the frieght off the ECML and it may free up space on an already crowded line...For passengers, sure I read somewhere years ago The Leamside could used for TPX Services
2. Refurbish the Curve at Brockley Whins with Metros going between Sunderland and South Shields and as an alternate oute from South Shields-Pelaw via Fellgate
3. Extend the track from South Hylton up to the Leamside, convert the Northern Section to Metro and run a Circular Service from Park Lane-Leamside Line sand back on the DCL
RE: Railway suggestions - Andreos1 - 09 Dec 2019
Digging up an old thread based purely on discussion in the SNE thread regarding the TVCA DRT scheme.
I wonder if re-opening the Boulby line as far as Loftus would allow the DRT to reach its potential.
Appreciate it is an expensive way of allowing it to reach its potential, but I do think it would help in not only reinvigorating East Cleveland and also assist with the pressures on the A174.
The new(ish) housing in Skelton and the plans for housing across East Cleveland, along with the retail developments in Skelton would suggest that the existing road infrastructure is going to struggle in years to come. It can be pretty bad as it stands.
New stations would be built in a Parkway style, with parking and interchange facilities available for both commercial services and the DRT scheme.
* Skelton (near the roundabout at the top of Saltburn Lane/A174).
* to the south of Pheasants Fields Lane at Skelton Ind Est.
* to the west of East Cleveland Hospital.
* between Liverton Mines and Loftus.
Obviously there would need to be improvements made to track and signalling and the Boulby stuff would need to be taken in to account too.
Without looking at RTT, I'd not know how long the trip between Saltburn and Loftus would be, but I'd imagine 30mins approx.
This, coupled with the existing journey time between Saltburn and Boro, should make the trip faster than the bus and has the potential to make it cheaper than the car - when parking is taken in to account in Middlesbrough Town centre as an example.
RE: Railway suggestions - S830OFT - 12 Dec 2019
(09 Dec 2019, 9:51 pm)Andreos1 wrote Digging up an old thread based purely on discussion in the SNE thread regarding the TVCA DRT scheme.
I wonder if re-opening the Boulby line as far as Loftus would allow the DRT to reach its potential.
Appreciate it is an expensive way of allowing it to reach its potential, but I do think it would help in not only reinvigorating East Cleveland and also assist with the pressures on the A174.
The new(ish) housing in Skelton and the plans for housing across East Cleveland, along with the retail developments in Skelton would suggest that the existing road infrastructure is going to struggle in years to come. It can be pretty bad as it stands.
New stations would be built in a Parkway style, with parking and interchange facilities available for both commercial services and the DRT scheme.
* Skelton (near the roundabout at the top of Saltburn Lane/A174).
* to the south of Pheasants Fields Lane at Skelton Ind Est.
* to the west of East Cleveland Hospital.
* between Liverton Mines and Loftus.
Obviously there would need to be improvements made to track and signalling and the Boulby stuff would need to be taken in to account too.
Without looking at RTT, I'd not know how long the trip between Saltburn and Loftus would be, but I'd imagine 30mins approx.
This, coupled with the existing journey time between Saltburn and Boro, should make the trip faster than the bus and has the potential to make it cheaper than the car - when parking is taken in to account in Middlesbrough Town centre as an example.
Would be nice to see the railway extended to Whitby from Cleveland...
RE: Railway suggestions - Andreos1 - 28 Feb 2020
(09 Dec 2019, 9:51 pm)Andreos1 wrote Digging up an old thread based purely on discussion in the SNE thread regarding the TVCA DRT scheme.
I wonder if re-opening the Boulby line as far as Loftus would allow the DRT to reach its potential.
Appreciate it is an expensive way of allowing it to reach its potential, but I do think it would help in not only reinvigorating East Cleveland and also assist with the pressures on the A174.
The new(ish) housing in Skelton and the plans for housing across East Cleveland, along with the retail developments in Skelton would suggest that the existing road infrastructure is going to struggle in years to come. It can be pretty bad as it stands.
New stations would be built in a Parkway style, with parking and interchange facilities available for both commercial services and the DRT scheme.
* Skelton (near the roundabout at the top of Saltburn Lane/A174).
* to the south of Pheasants Fields Lane at Skelton Ind Est.
* to the west of East Cleveland Hospital.
* between Liverton Mines and Loftus.
Obviously there would need to be improvements made to track and signalling and the Boulby stuff would need to be taken in to account too.
Without looking at RTT, I'd not know how long the trip between Saltburn and Loftus would be, but I'd imagine 30mins approx.
This, coupled with the existing journey time between Saltburn and Boro, should make the trip faster than the bus and has the potential to make it cheaper than the car - when parking is taken in to account in Middlesbrough Town centre as an example.
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/passenger-rail-services-could-return-17825341
Has someone been looking at these ideas?!
RE: Railway suggestions - Andreos1 - 13 Oct 2020
(28 Feb 2020, 5:33 pm)Andreos1 wrote https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/passenger-rail-services-could-return-17825341
Has someone been looking at these ideas?!
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/full-steam-ahead-east-cleveland-19089523
More on the potential re-opening of the line in to East Cleveland.
RE: Railway suggestions - Unber43 - 26 Oct 2023
Durham Coast Line, put 3 car 170s onto it, it would solve overcrowding without increasing the pressure already on the line well between Newcastle and Sunderland not so much Sunderland to Middlesbrough where only 2 trains each way an hour run MAX
RE: Railway suggestions - Storx - 26 Oct 2023
(26 Oct 2023, 9:22 pm)Unber43 wrote Durham Coast Line, put 3 car 170s onto it, it would solve overcrowding without increasing the pressure already on the line well between Newcastle and Sunderland not so much Sunderland to Middlesbrough where only 2 trains each way an hour run MAX
Wrong train the Turbostar's for the Durham Coast Line, they're designed for longer distance services, be a complete waste pottering along the Durham Coast at 50 mph.
If, and big if, any ever turned up here they'd be better on the Tyne Valley line imo with those trains moved to the Durham Coast Line.
RE: Railway suggestions - Unber43 - 26 Oct 2023
(26 Oct 2023, 9:39 pm)Storx wrote Wrong train the Turbostar's for the Durham Coast Line, they're designed for longer distance services, be a complete waste pottering along the Durham Coast at 50 mph.Whats on the tyne valley line? Current 156/158 which are on the Durham line.
If, and big if, any ever turned up here they'd be better on the Tyne Valley line imo with those trains moved to the Durham Coast Line.
I was just think Turbostar for the capacity, also im pretty sure Durham Line can go upto like 60 mph. I must say I didnt realise how fast Turbostars went
RE: Railway suggestions - Andreos1 - 27 Oct 2023
(26 Oct 2023, 9:39 pm)Storx wrote Wrong train the Turbostar's for the Durham Coast Line, they're designed for longer distance services, be a complete waste pottering along the Durham Coast at 50 mph.
If, and big if, any ever turned up here they'd be better on the Tyne Valley line imo with those trains moved to the Durham Coast Line.
To be fair, the 158's weren't designed for it either.
RE: Railway suggestions - F114TML - 27 Oct 2023
Top speed on the DCL is 70 I believe, albeit only a breif section between Seaton Carew and Billingham.
RE: Railway suggestions - deanmachine - 27 Oct 2023
(27 Oct 2023, 8:51 am)F114TML wrote Top speed on the DCL is 70 I believe, albeit only a breif section between Seaton Carew and Billingham.
Think it's 70 through East Boldon too until the bend before Seaburn.
RE: Railway suggestions - markydh - 27 Oct 2023
I believe that when the Northumberland line opens, the plan is for 158s to be used exclusively on Tyne Valley, Morpeth and Northumberland line services, with other Heaton-based North East diagrams using 156s. 3 extra 158s have already moved to Heaton to allow for this. This ties in with the continually pushed back ECML retimetabling, which will see all Northern services to and from Newcastle being self-contained i.e starting/terminating at Central Station.
RE: Railway suggestions - Unber43 - 27 Oct 2023
(27 Oct 2023, 3:36 pm)markydh wrote I believe that when the Northumberland line opens, the plan is for 158s to be used exclusively on Tyne Valley, Morpeth and Northumberland line services, with other Heaton-based North East diagrams using 156s. 3 extra 158s have already moved to Heaton to allow for this. This ties in with the continually pushed back ECML retimetabling, which will see all Northern services to and from Newcastle being self-contained i.e starting/terminating at Central Station.So the Durham Coast Line - Nunthrope to newcastle will no longer continue to Hexham?
RE: Railway suggestions - Storx - 27 Oct 2023
(27 Oct 2023, 6:45 am)Andreos1 wrote To be fair, the 158's weren't designed for it either.
Aye you're right, there nor are Class 156's either really with their single doors at the end which are horrid for dwell times.
RE: Railway suggestions - Unber43 - 27 Oct 2023
(27 Oct 2023, 7:26 pm)Storx wrote Aye you're right, there nor are Class 156's either really with their single doors at the end which are horrid for dwell times.If the 156's are only going from Newcastle - Nunthorpe surely most 156 can be doubled up
RE: Railway suggestions - Storx - 27 Oct 2023
(27 Oct 2023, 7:33 pm)Unber43 wrote If the 156's are only going from Newcastle - Nunthorpe surely most 156 can be doubled up
Aye, it's just the design more than anything. They were designed for long distance routes with limited stopping. Stuff like Glasgow to Oban / Mallaig on rural branch lines. They weren't too bad on the long distance Tyne Valley or Cumbria Loop services either really.
On paper out of the Class 15x trains, the Class 150 trains would be the best but there's problems with them at Hartlepool and they're shite but capacity wise they'd be the best.
RE: Railway suggestions - Andreos1 - 27 Oct 2023
(27 Oct 2023, 7:26 pm)Storx wrote Aye you're right, there nor are Class 156's either really with their single doors at the end which are horrid for dwell times.
But, I'd rather stuff like 170s or 185s were eventually cascaded on to the Durham Coast Line or Tyne Valley Line, than binned off completely.
Still prefer a 158 over both of them like.
Always had a soft-spot for them.
RE: Railway suggestions - markydh - 27 Oct 2023
(27 Oct 2023, 3:55 pm)Unber43 wrote So the Durham Coast Line - Nunthrope to newcastle will no longer continue to Hexham?
That’s almost right. It would be like this; -
Newcastle to Ashington (2 trains per hour)
Newcastle to Morpeth (1 tph)
Newcastle to Hexham (1 tph)
Newcastle to Carlisle (2 tph)
Newcastle to Middlesbrough (3 tp2h)
The same ‘hub system’ for Northern will also be created at Middlesbrough and Darlington with through trains being removed. It’s all about making delays self-contained. This won’t affect Transpennine services to Saltburn.
The other salient point is that Northern are acting as project lead for a national regional stock procurement plan, with the aim of replacing all 15x trains, probably with a mix of bi-mode and battery technology.
RE: Railway suggestions - deanmachine - 27 Oct 2023
(27 Oct 2023, 10:16 pm)markydh wrote That’s almost right. It would be like this; -
Newcastle to Ashington (2 trains per hour)
Newcastle to Morpeth (1 tph)
Newcastle to Hexham (1 tph)
Newcastle to Carlisle (2 tph)
Newcastle to Middlesbrough (3 tp2h)
The same ‘hub system’ for Northern will also be created at Middlesbrough and Darlington with through trains being removed. It’s all about making delays self-contained. This won’t affect Transpennine services to Saltburn.
Seems shot sighted to me, especially not putting services through to the Metrocentre at least.
RE: Railway suggestions - markydh - 27 Oct 2023
There are 3tph to Metrocentre, though. There’s rarely a long wait. Besides, they got rid of the Metrocentre terminators for most of the day when Carlisle went 2 tph a few years ago.
RE: Railway suggestions - Storx - 27 Oct 2023
(27 Oct 2023, 9:09 pm)Andreos1 wrote But, I'd rather stuff like 170s or 185s were eventually cascaded on to the Durham Coast Line or Tyne Valley Line, than binned off completely.
Still prefer a 158 over both of them like.
Always had a soft-spot for them.
Aye good trains the Class 158's to be fair. Good little work horse.
Can't see the Class 185's going anywhere bar the scrap yard personally. Greedy trains those as an understatement. The Class 175's seem to be struggling to find a home aswell, never been on them but from a passenger point of view they always seem decent enough trains - aware of the big problems with their bigger brothers the Class 180's though.
Hopefully we can get some new trains for once for up here though, I'll count some chickens though, mind there has been talk of Hydrogen trains in Teesside on and off.
RE: Railway suggestions - Unber43 - 28 Oct 2023
atleast at Newcastle youre guaranteed an empty train to get on.
But while the durham coast line is at 3tp2hr, need more than just a two car 156, either 170/185 would be decent or two 156 together, I remember seeing three together on a Sunday
RE: Railway suggestions - Jimmi - 28 Oct 2023
(27 Oct 2023, 10:16 pm)markydh wrote That’s almost right. It would be like this; -
Newcastle to Ashington (2 trains per hour)
Newcastle to Morpeth (1 tph)
Newcastle to Hexham (1 tph)
Newcastle to Carlisle (2 tph)
Newcastle to Middlesbrough (3 tp2h)
The same ‘hub system’ for Northern will also be created at Middlesbrough and Darlington with through trains being removed. It’s all about making delays self-contained. This won’t affect Transpennine services to Saltburn.
The other salient point is that Northern are acting as project lead for a national regional stock procurement plan, with the aim of replacing all 15x trains, probably with a mix of bi-mode and battery technology.
Mixed feelings on the splitting of routes, hoping it does help with delays and cancellations, there's been occasions where a Bishop Auckland bound service will be terminated at Darlington for even slight delays so start that trains next Saltburn trip on time from Darlington which I think is down to pathing on platforms 1 & 4? Often get slim to no notice of cancellations in this fashion, on one occasion, we literally found out once the train pulled onto the platform and the guard shouted for us not to board as it was cancelled beyond Darlo.
Supposedly, the Bishop Line will gain an extra service each hour taking it to 2tph over the current 1tph.
RE: Railway suggestions - markydh - 28 Oct 2023
(28 Oct 2023, 12:44 am)Jimmi wrote Mixed feelings on the splitting of routes, hoping it does help with delays and cancellations, there's been occasions where a Bishop Auckland bound service will be terminated at Darlington for even slight delays so start that trains next Saltburn trip on time from Darlington which I think is down to pathing on platforms 1 & 4? Often get slim to no notice of cancellations in this fashion, on one occasion, we literally found out once the train pulled onto the platform and the guard shouted for us not to board as it was cancelled beyond Darlo.
Supposedly, the Bishop Line will gain an extra service each hour taking it to 2tph over the current 1tph.
Yeah the Bishop - Saltburn route will be split. The intention I believe is to terminate Bishop services on the current platform 4 with the Boro trains using one of the new platforms to the east of the current station, rather than using the bays. The current platform 1 will become the main line northbound platform.