Deutsche Bahn to sell UK rail and bus operator Arriva

Deutsche Bahn to sell UK rail and bus operator Arriva - Printable Version

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Deutsche Bahn to sell UK rail and bus operator Arriva - Malarkey - 28 Mar 2019

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/27/deutsche-bahn-to-sell-uk-rail-bus-operator-arriva

RE: Deutsche Bahn to sell UK rail and bus operator Arriva - GNE6312 - 28 Mar 2019

(28 Mar 2019, 4:22 pm)Malarkey wrote https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/27/deutsche-bahn-to-sell-uk-rail-bus-operator-arriva

Hopefully Arriva gets sold to someone willing to invest in new buses and trains. Maybe first group or go-ahead.

RE: Deutsche Bahn to sell UK rail and bus operator Arriva - Tyne_Traveller - 28 Mar 2019

Can't imagine First Group given their current situation being interested. Go-ahead maybe considered too well represented locally already, though I could imagine something like the Arriva portion if the 685 being operated by Go North East from Hexham (as it used to be) Would Arriva Northumbria not be of interest to a company such as West Coast Motors?

RE: Deutsche Bahn to sell UK rail and bus operator Arriva - Malarkey - 28 Mar 2019

(28 Mar 2019, 5:03 pm)GNE6312 wrote Hopefully Arriva gets sold to someone willing to invest in new buses and trains. Maybe first group or go-ahead.

I think it will be sold off in portions due competition of local operators who may operate in the same area unless another operator takes over entirely.

With us in the North East we would be best off splitting Arriva's operations between Go North East and Stagecoach at an even split.

So for example Stagecoach would get Arriva operations from Stockton/Darlington/Redcar & Whitby. Go North East would get Arriva operations from Ashington, Blyth, Jesmond and Durham

Stagecoach Ops from Arriva
Darlington = Total of 107 Vehicles
Stockton = Total of 86 Vehicles
Redcar = Total of 62 Vehicles
Whitby = Total of 12 Vehicles
Total = 267 Vehicles

Go North East Ops from Arriva
Ashington = Total of 55 Vehicles
Blyth = Total of 53 Vehicles
Jesmond = Total of 78 Vehicles
Durham = Total of 88 Vehicles
Total = 274 Vehicles

RE: Deutsche Bahn to sell UK rail and bus operator Arriva - omnicity4659 - 30 Mar 2019

From what I hear it'll be sold off as a whole. Forget First or Go-Ahead, look more at consortiums of wealthy investors.

RE: Deutsche Bahn to sell UK rail and bus operator Arriva - James101 - 30 Mar 2019

(30 Mar 2019, 2:01 am)omnicity4659 wrote From what I hear it'll be sold off as a whole. Forget First or Go-Ahead, look more at consortiums of wealthy investors.

I think it’ll be all ‘business as usual’ as was the purchase by DB in the first place, we never did see any red buses or aggressive expansion as speculated back then. A new owner might look at either breaking off or adding on new operations, but that’s years off.

RE: Deutsche Bahn to sell UK rail and bus operator Arriva - Michael - 30 Mar 2019

(30 Mar 2019, 2:01 am)omnicity4659 wrote From what I hear it'll be sold off as a whole. Forget First or Go-Ahead, look more at consortiums of wealthy investors.

Will be interesting to see who buys it!

Could first or Go-Ahead even afford it?, would be good, if they sold all the NE operations to Go North East and Stagecoach though, and then the rest were bought by other companies.

Edit:

How much is it to buy?

RE: Deutsche Bahn to sell UK rail and bus operator Arriva - Andreos1 - 30 Mar 2019

(30 Mar 2019, 9:55 am)Michael wrote Will be interesting to see who buys it!

Could first or Go-Ahead even afford it?, would be good, if they sold all the NE operations to Go North East and Stagecoach though, and then the rest were bought by other companies.

Edit:

How much is it to buy?

I imagine whoever gets it, will come under scrutiny from the CMA.
They cover such a huge swathe of the UK with bus and rail that there are bound to be concerns that whoever gets it will end up with a monopoly which needs breaking up.

I would think DB would want to sell the lot in one go, but the quoted €4bn price may put off some suitors and as a result, there may be elements or divisions hived off separately - if DB get that desperate.

RE: Deutsche Bahn to sell UK rail and bus operator Arriva - Michael - 30 Mar 2019

(30 Mar 2019, 10:06 am)Andreos1 wrote I imagine whoever gets it, will come under scrutiny from the CMA.
They cover such a huge swathe of the UK with bus and rail that there are bound to be concerns that whoever gets it will end up with a monopoly which needs breaking up.

I would think DB would want to sell the lot in one go, but the quoted €4bn price may put off some suitors and as a result, there may be elements or divisions hived off separately - if DB get that desperate.

I was just thinking that, we could have a company come in from elsewhere in the world but a £4bn price tag might put them off.

I do hope they sell area's separately though, would be for both Go North East and Stagecoach to expand their profiles in the NE

Ticket prices may increase but would be worth it.

RE: Deutsche Bahn to sell UK rail and bus operator Arriva - Rob44 - 30 Mar 2019

I think it would be the worst thing to happen if Go North east or stagecoach got their hands on arriva. Competition is virtually none existent now, it would only be worse have 2 giants rather than 3 large companies in the north east

RE: Deutsche Bahn to sell UK rail and bus operator Arriva - Michael - 30 Mar 2019

(30 Mar 2019, 11:11 am)Rob44 wrote I think it would be the worst thing to happen if Go North east or stagecoach got their hands on arriva. Competition is virtually none existent now, it would only be worse have 2 giants rather than 3 large companies in the north east

It will but i can't see any other companies buying them out in 1 go, i think they need to sell in area's and not as a whole.

RE: Deutsche Bahn to sell UK rail and bus operator Arriva - markydh - 30 Mar 2019

People can forget any sale to a transport provider. That’s not what this is about. It’s ALL of Arriva that DB want rid of. That’s their entire European operation. This is a divestment that is likely to be sold to a consortium of investors likely to include pension funds such as the Canadian one and investment bankers.

Deutsche Bahn to sell UK rail and bus operator Arriva - Mark51953 - 31 Mar 2019

Would be great if Go Ahead took Yorkshire over then another piece of the jigsaw between hull and Manchester ??

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Would be great if Go Ahead took Yorkshire over then another piece of the jigsaw between hull and Manchester ??

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

RE: Deutsche Bahn to sell UK rail and bus operator Arriva - L469 YVK - 31 Mar 2019

In terms of the Northumbria Depots, I'd imagine the following will happen to keep the CMA happy:

- Ashington depot to GNE who will also get services 1 & 2.
- Jesmond depot to GNE and will later close with services being split between Percy Main & Riverside.
- Blyth Depot to Stagecoach.
- Mutual fleet swaps with Stagecoach taking all ADL fleet with GNE taking WrightBus fleet.

And for Durham & Tees:
- Belmont to Stagecoach
- Darlington, Stockton and Redcar to GNE
- Whitby to GNE (EYMS)

Deutsche Bahn to sell UK rail and bus operator Arriva - Mark51953 - 31 Mar 2019

(31 Mar 2019, 6:22 pm)L469 YVK wrote In terms of the Northumbria Depots, I'd imagine the following will happen to keep the CMA happy:

- Ashington depot to GNE who will also get services 1 & 2.
- Jesmond depot to GNE and will later close with services being split between Percy Main & Riverside.
- Blyth Depot to Stagecoach.
- Mutual fleet swaps with Stagecoach taking all ADL fleet with GNE taking WrightBus fleet.

And for Durham & Tees:
- Belmont to Stagecoach
- Darlington, Stockton and Redcar to GNE
- Whitby to GNE (EYMS)

Would be great if Go Ahead took over Yorkshire then a gap filler from Goole to Rochdale

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RE: Deutsche Bahn to sell UK rail and bus operator Arriva - Kuyoyo - 01 Apr 2019

(31 Mar 2019, 6:22 pm)L469 YVK wrote In terms of the Northumbria Depots, I'd imagine the following will happen to keep the CMA happy:

- Ashington depot to GNE who will also get services 1 & 2.
- Jesmond depot to GNE and will later close with services being split between Percy Main & Riverside.
- Blyth Depot to Stagecoach.
- Mutual fleet swaps with Stagecoach taking all ADL fleet with GNE taking WrightBus fleet.

And for Durham & Tees:
- Belmont to Stagecoach
- Darlington, Stockton and Redcar to GNE
- Whitby to GNE (EYMS)

How many times does this need explaining

DB are selling Arriva AS A WHOLE!

That's the entire Group - UK Bus, UK Rail, European Bus operations and European Rail operations - as a group.
If they cannot find a buyer for the entire group, they will be floating shares in the Group on the Stock Market.

RE: Deutsche Bahn to sell UK rail and bus operator Arriva - citaro5284 - 01 Apr 2019

(01 Apr 2019, 9:20 am)Kuyoyo wrote How many times does this need explaining

DB are selling Arriva AS A WHOLE!

That's the entire Group - UK Bus, UK Rail, European Bus operations and European Rail operations - as a group.
If they cannot find a buyer for the entire group, they will be floating shares in the Group on the Stock Market.

Dont think so.....

Both articles mention one or more investors or an IPO. There is nothing to suggest that the business will be sold to just 1 company.

https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/national/german-owner-puts-transport-group-arriva-up-for-sale

https://www.railway-technology.com/news/deutsche-bahn-arriva/

RE: Deutsche Bahn to sell UK rail and bus operator Arriva - Tyne_Traveller - 14 Apr 2019

This article says Stagecoach considering a whole or part take over of Arriva (probably not the trains then!)

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-6918893/Stagecoach-mulls-takeover-UKs-largest-bus-operator-Arriva-goes-sale.html

RE: Deutsche Bahn to sell UK rail and bus operator Arriva - BusLoverMum - 14 Apr 2019

(31 Mar 2019, 6:22 pm)L469 YVK wrote In terms of the Northumbria Depots, I'd imagine the following will happen to keep the CMA happy:

- Ashington depot to GNE who will also get services 1 & 2.
- Jesmond depot to GNE and will later close with services being split between Percy Main & Riverside.
- Blyth Depot to Stagecoach.
- Mutual fleet swaps with Stagecoach taking all ADL fleet with GNE taking WrightBus fleet.

And for Durham & Tees:
- Belmont to Stagecoach
- Darlington, Stockton and Redcar to GNE
- Whitby to GNE (EYMS)

Stagecoach have no coverage in any of the Belmont area and most of their services are long distance, so not typical stagecoach.

RE: Deutsche Bahn to sell UK rail and bus operator Arriva - KB59 - 15 Apr 2019

Stagecoach have Interurban services in other regions e.g. Preston to Liverpool and Northampton to Peterborough.

Cheers.

(14 Apr 2019, 11:14 pm)BusLoverMum wrote Stagecoach have no coverage in any of the Belmont area and most of their services are long distance, so not typical stagecoach.

RE: Deutsche Bahn to sell UK rail and bus operator Arriva - Rob44 - 15 Apr 2019

I've said it before and ill say it again it will be the worse thing to happen if 3 large operators become 2 giant ones. Need new blood in the north east to shake it up a bit!

RE: Deutsche Bahn to sell UK rail and bus operator Arriva - Andreos1 - 15 Apr 2019

(15 Apr 2019, 1:31 pm)Rob44 wrote I've said it before and ill say it again it will be the worse thing to happen if 3 large operators become 2 giant ones. Need new blood in the north east to shake it up a bit!

I can't see it happening myself.
Mentioned previously the issues that the competition and markets authority would potentially have.

They investigated Arriva and Northern rail and the fact there was no competition in many areas of the north.

Regardless of that, for one large dominant company, to take over such a network as vast as Arriva's UK market - yet another example of how flawed de-regulation is?

RE: Deutsche Bahn to sell UK rail and bus operator Arriva - Rob44 - 15 Apr 2019

(15 Apr 2019, 2:04 pm)Andreos1 wrote I can't see it happening myself.
Mentioned previously the issues that the competition and markets authority would potentially have.

They investigated Arriva and Northern rail and the fact there was no competition in many areas of the north.

Regardless of that, for one large dominant company, to take over such a network as vast as Arriva's UK market - yet another example of how flawed de-regulation is?

1000% agree. De-regulation was suppose to create competition in the bus sector. but never happened on the routes I used ( well except when the OK travel 44b ran v northumbria 44) .

oh and just to add that was a great time to be a bus passenger. no fair rises.... extra buses on the 44 when it was running late. always got home on time!

RE: Deutsche Bahn to sell UK rail and bus operator Arriva - Michael - 18 Apr 2019

Seen this in this months buses magazine

RE: Deutsche Bahn to sell UK rail and bus operator Arriva - Malarkey - 18 Apr 2019

(18 Apr 2019, 11:29 am)Michael wrote Seen this in this months buses magazine

Good I say as I don't personally rate them as an operator, will be interesting to see what happens.

RE: Deutsche Bahn to sell UK rail and bus operator Arriva - L469 YVK - 02 Jun 2019

Now that Arriva have Ticketer machines installed, if another operator using these ticket machines was to acquire an Arriva depot, would it just be a simple case of a 'software update' to get these onto the new operators systems?