(04 Apr 2021, 5:00 pm)Michael wrote So probs about 80% of the funding for London and 20% for rest of England then?


Hope the NE bid for some, probs end up at Newcastle/Gateshead though.

(04 Apr 2021, 5:55 pm)streetdeckfan wrote It's only in major cities that zero emissions buses make sense though, until we start seeing more hydrogen electric vehicles.
Battery electric vehicles just don't have the range to be used on the majority of routes that venture outside the city

(04 Apr 2021, 5:00 pm)Michael wrote So probs about 80% of the funding for London and 20% for rest of England then?


Hope the NE bid for some, probs end up at Newcastle/Gateshead though.

(05 Apr 2021, 9:54 am)busmanT wrote It does not apply to London!
Quote from ZEBRA guidance -
"we ask for bids to be written and submitted by English local transport authorities outside London (i.e. counties, unitaries, combined authorities)"

(05 Apr 2021, 3:21 pm)Adrian wrote Quaylink or Durham Park & Ride would probably be a good shout for funding. The contract for the latter is to be renewed next year I believe.

(05 Apr 2021, 4:13 pm)Storx wrote The Durham P&R is ran by minibuses isn't it? They've restricted it to full size buses and deckers only.

Personally can't see GNE getting any funding because of them winning the funding for Voltra in the earlier investments and it'll be targeting on some corridor maybe Gosforth High Street (Arriva), Coast Road (Arriva / Stagecoach) or Byker / Blackett Street (Stagecoach) because of high emissions on them all if they go for Tyneside.

(05 Apr 2021, 4:13 pm)Storx wrote The Durham P&R is ran by minibuses isn't it? They've restricted it to full size buses and deckers only.

(05 Apr 2021, 4:23 pm)Dan wrote The infrastructure is one of the largest costs associated with the procurement of electric buses.

To get more 'bang for your buck', it may be that because Go North East already have the infrastructure (and are set up to accommodate up to 30 electric buses), that they could stand a better chance. In addition to the current nine, Go North East already have funding for a further nine buses, so this would take them to 18 of the 30 capacity they currently have for electric buses at Riverside.

A route like Go North East's Q3 has a PVR of 9, so a spare would be ordered, and this would take them to a capacity of 28/30 for electric buses at Riverside. It would also tick your box for Gosforth High Street.

I cannot see Arriva North East being particularly interested in this funding - don't forget that this funding only covers 75% of the difference between a diesel bus and an electric bus: so if a diesel single-deck bus is £160k, and an electric bus is closer to the £300k mark, the company would still be investing c.£200k per bus themselves. We're all aware of the reasons for the alleged lack of investment at Arriva, and I cannot see this funding changing things.

I do however agree with Adrian that it would be great for the Durham Park & Ride tender, which is up for renewal next year, to stipulate the use of electric buses (regardless of whether this funding could be used for that or not).

(05 Apr 2021, 4:44 pm)Adrian wrote Its minibus because that's what the current contract stipulates, but there's absolutely no reason why full size buses could not be used on the service.

Its worth noting that Policy 21 of the County Durham plan states: "5.228 It is very important that we plan to enable the adoption of alternative fuel vehicles and also actively discourage the number and frequency of single occupancy car journeys through the provision of charging infrastructure for electric vehicles and car sharing bays. Electric vehicle charging infrastructure and car sharing bays will be required in the Parking and Accessibility SPD. We will also support taxi and bus operators to switch to alternative fuel vehicles by identifying and helping with suitable funding opportunities."

So I'd be extremely surprised if the next P&R contract isn't for an all-electric service.

(05 Apr 2021, 4:23 pm)Dan wrote The infrastructure is one of the largest costs associated with the procurement of electric buses.

To get more 'bang for your buck', it may be that because Go North East already have the infrastructure (and are set up to accommodate up to 30 electric buses), that they could stand a better chance. In addition to the current nine, Go North East already have funding for a further nine buses, so this would take them to 18 of the 30 capacity they currently have for electric buses at Riverside.

A route like Go North East's Q3 has a PVR of 9, so a spare would be ordered, and this would take them to a capacity of 28/30 for electric buses at Riverside. It would also tick your box for Gosforth High Street.

I cannot see Arriva North East being particularly interested in this funding - don't forget that this funding only covers 75% of the difference between a diesel bus and an electric bus: so if a diesel single-deck bus is £160k, and an electric bus is closer to the £300k mark, the company would still be investing c.£200k per bus themselves. We're all aware of the reasons for the alleged lack of investment at Arriva, and I cannot see this funding changing things.

I do however agree with Adrian that it would be great for the Durham Park & Ride tender, which is up for renewal next year, to stipulate the use of electric buses (regardless of whether this funding could be used for that or not).

(05 Apr 2021, 4:13 pm)Storx wrote The Durham P&R is ran by minibuses isn't it? They've restricted it to full size buses and deckers only.

Personally can't see GNE getting any funding because of them winning the funding for Voltra in the earlier investments unless it's just a few buses so Quaylink could be a shout. Think they'll target a corridor maybe Gosforth High Street (Arriva / GNE), Coast Road (Arriva / Stagecoach) or Byker / Blackett Street (Stagecoach) because of high emissions on them all if they went for Tyneside.

(05 Apr 2021, 4:44 pm)Adrian wrote Its minibus because that's what the current contract stipulates, but there's absolutely no reason why full size buses could not be used on the service.

So I'd be extremely surprised if the next P&R contract isn't for an all-electric service.

(05 Apr 2021, 6:54 pm)peter wrote If I recall correctly, I was reading some documents regarding both the Drive at Mount Oswald and the new University accommodation up there. One of them (can't remember which) were awarded planning permission on the condition that they contribute financially towards larger vehicles operating on the PR2, so definitely not unlikely that we'll see bigger buses on the park and ride in the future. Similarly, if Scarlet Band were to continue operation of the contract, you would think the pink bus would be another contender for larger/electric vehicles - especially given that the new uni accommodation is self-catered and there are no shops up that end of Durham.

(10 Apr 2021, 6:18 pm)Metroline1511 wrote Buses ordered through the ZEBRA scheme should be in a black and white livery lol

(29 Oct 2021, 7:35 pm)Keeiajs wrote Would be nice to see Deptford get some electric buses possibly for the 60/20 or 56 (seems to be the most popular Sunderland routes)

(29 Oct 2021, 6:35 pm)Michael wrote In Martijn's live update tonight, he has confirmed they've bid for buses.... 77 bid


50 for GNE and rest for Durham/Northumberland council contracts.

https://www.facebook.com/100009920923911/videos/2420363754764936 - from 2:15



Also, it looks like all of the future GNE buses order will be electric - so no more streetdecks/Streetlites by the look of it - but electric buses are double the price of Diesel buses.

(29 Oct 2021, 8:56 pm)Malarkey wrote Looks like the bid for the initial 50 Buses will be for the Tyne Valley Ten, Angel 21 & Cobalt & Coast 309/310/311 as the PVR for these services is 50, the other 27 will be the X-Lines X5/X15 & Durham P&R/Cathedral Bus Services and then Tynedale Links Network in Hexham which was what originally documented. 

I think in the interests of fleet standardisation they'll order either Wright Streetdeck Electroliners or the new Volvo BZL following demonstration then i'd think they'd likely stick with Yutong for any single deck orders but then again the smallest Yutong is 10.8m which is what is Voltra's at the moment, so I would therefore think potentially they may order some 9.6m BYD E200EV's.

(29 Oct 2021, 7:39 pm)Michael wrote 56 is a long route, not sure they would do from 5am till midnight (services during the night are Streetlites)

How many miles can the Yutong's go before they need charging?

What about the other electric buses, you can buy, how long do they last?

(31 Oct 2021, 12:33 am)Adrian wrote Along with removing the barriers of electric buses being cost prohibitive at the moment (operators seem to  not to buy them unless the exchequer helps them out), we probably need more creative thinking in how to deliver zero emissions public transport.

I spotted this video on YouTube from Germany, where they have an electric highway used by trucks. Some of the range issues could perhaps be solved by having similar overhead lines, with the dual purpose of being used for fast charging buses whilst in a section and for trams too.

https://youtu.be/_3P_S7pL7Yg

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(31 Oct 2021, 12:33 am)Adrian wrote Along with removing the barriers of electric buses being cost prohibitive at the moment (operators seem to  not to buy them unless the exchequer helps them out), we probably need more creative thinking in how to deliver zero emissions public transport.

I spotted this video on YouTube from Germany, where they have an electric highway used by trucks. Some of the range issues could perhaps be solved by having similar overhead lines, with the dual purpose of being used for fast charging buses whilst in a section and for trams too.

https://youtu.be/_3P_S7pL7Yg

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(31 Oct 2021, 7:32 am)Storx wrote Hydrogen will be the future for vans, buses and trucks imo. The tech and the demand just isn't there but I'm pretty certain it'll become more mainstream when the petrol stations realise that petrol is finished. After all they need something to sell and with Shell and the likes on board they'll soon appear.

(31 Oct 2021, 11:31 am)streetdeckfan wrote The issue is that on-demand hydrogen production is fairly inefficient, and iirc, hydrogen is for the most part currently just a byproduct of fossil fuel production.

Obviously if the electricity used to generate hydrogen was green it wouldn't be too bad, but I'd imagine if they had their own on-site generation they'd end up using power from the grid which isn't so green.

The advantage of hydrogen is due to its far superior energy density compared to lithium based batteries the ranges can be a lot further, making them actually usable

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(31 Oct 2021, 11:31 am)streetdeckfan wrote The issue is that on-demand hydrogen production is fairly inefficient, and iirc, hydrogen is for the most part currently just a byproduct of fossil fuel production.

Obviously if the electricity used to generate hydrogen was green it wouldn't be too bad, but I'd imagine if they had their own on-site generation they'd end up using power from the grid which isn't so green.

The advantage of hydrogen is due to its far superior energy density compared to lithium based batteries the ranges can be a lot further, making them actually usable

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

(31 Oct 2021, 7:32 am)Storx wrote Hydrogen will be the future for vans, buses and trucks imo. The tech and the demand just isn't there but I'm pretty certain it'll become more mainstream when the petrol stations realise that petrol is finished. After all they need something to sell and with Shell and the likes on board they'll soon appear.

(31 Oct 2021, 7:45 am)54APhotography wrote Reducing/and or extending battery life would be idealy served by pantographs collecting from halos at bus stations, as is in use elsewhere. Trams need to come back, the metro can't expand west now. buses could feed from ole as trolley buses used to leaving the battery for dead sections as the metro proposed for Durham.

(31 Oct 2021, 11:31 am)streetdeckfan wrote The issue is that on-demand hydrogen production is fairly inefficient, and iirc, hydrogen is for the most part currently just a byproduct of fossil fuel production.

Obviously if the electricity used to generate hydrogen was green it wouldn't be too bad, but I'd imagine if they had their own on-site generation they'd end up using power from the grid which isn't so green.

The advantage of hydrogen is due to its far superior energy density compared to lithium based batteries the ranges can be a lot further, making them actually usable

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk