(30 Jul 2022, 9:05 pm)L469 YVK wrote Posting in here as it applies to both GNE & Arriva.

But the number of services along the Coast Road after an NUFC evening kick off is simply not enough. Before March 2020, there was........

Arriva:
- 2x 306 per hour
- 2x 308 per hour

GNE:
- 1x 309 per hour
- 1x 310 per hour
- 2x 57 per hour (until Jan 2020)
- 1x 311 per hour (after Jan 2020)

Now it's only 4x services per hour in total (not including the 51)

Now fair enough, I wouldn't expect either operator to regularly run the levels they did pre-covid but on match nights, surely a DVSA registration for such events could be made for extra journeys even if for the timebeing (given driver shortages) sub-contracing to JH or Stanley.

(30 Jul 2022, 9:05 pm)L469 YVK wrote Posting in here as it applies to both GNE & Arriva.

But the number of services along the Coast Road after an NUFC evening kick off is simply not enough. Before March 2020, there was........

Arriva:
- 2x 306 per hour
- 2x 308 per hour

GNE:
- 1x 309 per hour
- 1x 310 per hour
- 2x 57 per hour (until Jan 2020)
- 1x 311 per hour (after Jan 2020)

Now it's only 4x services per hour in total (not including the 51)

Now fair enough, I wouldn't expect either operator to regularly run the levels they did pre-covid but on match nights, surely a DVSA registration for such events could be made for extra journeys even if for the timebeing (given driver shortages) sub-contracing to JH or Stanley.

(30 Jul 2022, 10:46 pm)L469 YVK wrote But didn't GNE used to run match night extras on the likes of the 21, 58, 97 etc?

(30 Jul 2022, 10:51 pm)Andreos1 wrote Definitely ran the X10 later in the evening for late kick offs. 
Gonna be fun on a Sunday now they're running every 2 hours!

(30 Jul 2022, 9:20 pm)Storx wrote Not trying to be funny but how many buses do you want along there. It's more than enough imo. Not to mention there's the Metro 4x an hour aswell covering a large area of the outer areas.

Old Durham Road has 2 buses an hour
Durham Road has 3 buses an hour ignoring the 28B
Consett has 1 bus an hour

They should be all higher priority.

(31 Jul 2022, 6:43 am)Rob44 wrote Why???

(31 Jul 2022, 7:31 am)Storx wrote No reason really, the 51 was omitted along the Coast Road so if you discounted that then the 28B had to go, they're pretty much the same.

Mind I'm not sure why it's called the 28B when it's not the 28 anymore anyway at all. It should be the 29 or 29A imo is another thing.

(31 Jul 2022, 4:32 am)Dan wrote Didn’t the extra ones usually operate as far as Peterlee, where there is still an hourly service on a Sunday?


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(31 Jul 2022, 11:37 pm)Andreos1 wrote https://images-gonortheast.passenger-website.com/downloads/NUFC%20-%20Timetables%20for%20Evening%20Buses%202022-23.pdf


These late ones as an example.

(01 Aug 2022, 8:13 am)Ambassador wrote Can't imagine they'll come back, the dead run back to Riverside wouldn't be worth it unless Washington ran it.

Mind, it was utter chaos too and from the match on Saturday and that was just a friendly.

(01 Aug 2022, 8:13 am)Ambassador wrote Can't imagine they'll come back, the dead run back to Riverside wouldn't be worth it unless Washington ran it.

Mind, it was utter chaos too and from the match on Saturday and that was just a friendly. 

(01 Aug 2022, 10:39 am)Andreos1 wrote And yet the operators are somehow surprised when traffic causes issues with the services which are running... Or insist on banging the drum for more bus priority measures.

I think it was Storx who said that operators have failed if traffic causes issues and delays and they can't get people to make the modal switch OR have been people make the modal switch back from public transport.
Storx is 100% correct.
Quite why the MD of an operator is publically (but probably unconsciously) admitting his methods to grow the business has failed, is anyones guess. 

If our Daniel is sitting ready to play Andreos1 Bingo, he might get a line here... 
Titivations, paint jobs, tables and WiFi clearly haven't made the impact operators thought they would. I think that's more clear now than it ever has been. 
Blaming Covid doesn't wash. Neither does pointing at the Governments lack of funding/communications during Covid/insert other accusation as suits. 
Sticking with a stagnant network that is essentially the same as the one on the wall in Beamish Museum isn't working.

Let's look at something that's radical and different. Let's be proactive. Let's work with employers, car users and existing passengers to discuss these changing travel patterns operators keep mentioning - but are seemingly doing very little about other than reducing frequencies and culling routes. 
* Where are the morning peaks?
* What flow do we have and what impact does other road traffic at pinch points heading in other directions have on services?
* Are there services that are going to places in other directions to our buses and if we don't have services to/from those places - what can we do to ensure we take those cars off the road?
* Ditto PM peaks (and the utter bizarre frequencies during the day when passenger numbers are logically at their lowest).
* What can be done to ensure 52,000 people coming out of SJP or 40,000 coming out of the SOL are accommodated via public transport - regardless of the time of the final whistle? just to make sure I stick to Daveys original idea for the thread
* Are there different travel patterns on different days of the week that need to be included in commercial teams thinking? 
* How can operators work together to ensure passengers can complete a journey, regardless of time of day, contract etc
* What will elastic and inelastic passengers be prepared to accept so that perceptions of fares, journey times and comfort are met or exceeded? 

The internal factors should be worked on as well, so that second tranche of leavers MG mentioned are the last.
Utilising and managing the resource (vehicle, driver and effective timetabling) well is undoubtedly key.

If they don't look at any of these things in detail (and I'm sure there's many more to look at), nothing is going to get better. 
It's as simple as that. These operators need to take some ownership and responsibility.

(01 Aug 2022, 11:05 am)Adrian wrote I know Sunderland don't have theirs anymore, but regarding the bit in bold, I wonder why this is so difficult for Newcastle? I'm assuming a large proportion of fans, who also use public transport, are Magpie Mover ticket holders. If that is the case, then Network One have post codes along with the number of tickets in circulation? Why not actually do something with this data, and look to plan match day services around it?

Of course, the added difficulty at the minute, is that there's not a day that goes by without masses of service cancellations. If you've only got X number of drivers to go around, then you're impacting service work elsewhere to put on these extra buses. I can't imagine there being a huge influx of volunteers for overtime or rest day working, when there's a football match on. 

But if/when the driver situation is sorted out, they really should be looking at this data more closely.

(01 Aug 2022, 11:17 am)Andreos1 wrote The data has existed as long as Magpie Mover has existed. It will obviously evolve slightly from season to season, but I don't imagine there will be a sudden drop off in one post code area and massive increase in another.
It was there well before the current driver situation.

I genuinely don't know why someone, somewhere hasn't looked at it and done something productive with it. Whether it be data from the clubs or as you say, Network Ticketing.

I get there may be GDPR concerns, but a quick disclaimer relating to using the data for route planning will be easy enough to introduce.
This is information that can be used in a manner that helps the balance sheet and increases customer satisfaction. Everyone is a winner. Surely?

(01 Aug 2022, 1:38 pm)Storx wrote From a Sunderland ST holder point of view, it's a hard one to crack but ideally what is needed is some form of transport which stops outside of the ground which takes people to a decent P&R site outside the city for next to nothing subsidised by the clubs.

There's not really any alternative for us other than drive and parking in the streets then getting stuck for 10-15 minutes heading North and it's the same for those heading from the South.

I don't really expect any direct public transport from where I live either (SE Northumberland) so it would have to be some form of half way house but being dead honest you probably won't change us over whatever happens but I certainly wouldn't get on a bus which does the same traffic as the car as what's the point.

Multiply that with fans from every single Durham Pit Village, Ashington, Gateshead etc then you see where the problems start.

For Southern Sunderland fans there ideally needs to be some P&R at South Hylton and Ryhope which people can park at and get the Metro / Shuttle Train (Ryhope). They'd be handy for parking anyway for the city all week anyway.

Northern fans like us it's more difficult as the Metro is already slammed heading North so not sure what you could do but tbh the traffic heading North isn't too bad anyway. GNE having single deckers on the 24 at Crush Load (we passed one) on a 30 minute frequency doesn't help though mind.

(01 Aug 2022, 1:45 pm)Unber43 wrote That caused a 40 minute delay, making the 61A late, cauing it to go out of service - interworking of vehicles from a large amount of services never end well. 

You could have a Park & Ride from Park Lane to Stadium of Light

(01 Aug 2022, 11:17 am)Andreos1 wrote The data has existed as long as Magpie Mover has existed. It will obviously evolve slightly from season to season, but I don't imagine there will be a sudden drop off in one post code area and massive increase in another.
It was there well before the current driver situation.

I genuinely don't know why someone, somewhere hasn't looked at it and done something productive with it. Whether it be data from the clubs or as you say, Network Ticketing.

I get there may be GDPR concerns, but a quick disclaimer relating to using the data for route planning will be easy enough to introduce.
This is information that can be used in a manner that helps the balance sheet and increases customer satisfaction. Everyone is a winner. Surely?

(01 Aug 2022, 1:59 pm)Storx wrote Not really any need for that, it would be quicker to walk because of the traffic caused by people walking out the ground, especially when the new footbridge is built. Most people park in the streets over that way already anyway and the traffic problems are often further out, Chester Road and Wessington Way are particularly bad.

The catch 22 is the Durham Coast Line is an absolute shambles after the match aswell which forces people into cars. Quite often they have a single Class 156 on and it's crush load by Seaton Carew heading North as it's a busy line without the football traffic added to it. It's even worse after the game. There's constantly people winging about it.

Buses sadly aren't the answer for the matches imo bar actually having enough capacity on the buses which already exist as everyone comes from everywhere so you could never serve > 30% of us at least.

(01 Aug 2022, 1:38 pm)Storx wrote  From a Sunderland ST holder point of view, it's a hard one to crack but ideally what is needed is some form of transport which stops outside of the ground which takes people to a decent P&R site outside the city for next to nothing subsidised by the clubs.

There's not really any alternative for us other than drive and parking in the streets then getting stuck for 10-15 minutes heading North and it's the same for those heading from the South.

I don't really expect any direct public transport from where I live either (SE Northumberland) so it would have to be some form of half way house but being dead honest you probably won't change us over whatever happens but I certainly wouldn't get on a bus which does the same traffic as the car as what's the point.

Multiply that with fans from every single Durham Pit Village, Ashington, Gateshead etc then you see where the problems start.

For Southern Sunderland fans there ideally needs to be some P&R at South Hylton and Ryhope which people can park at and get the Metro / Shuttle Train (Ryhope). They'd be handy for parking anyway for the city all week anyway.

Northern fans like us it's more difficult as the Metro is already slammed heading North so not sure what you could do but tbh the traffic heading North isn't too bad anyway. GNE having single deckers on the 24 at Crush Load (we passed one) on a 30 minute frequency doesn't help though mind.

(01 Aug 2022, 2:04 pm)Adrian wrote The only GDPR concerns would be from someone who doesn't understand GDPR, though I appreciate that it's sadly far too common and it has become something that organisations hide behind. The only data required would be the (even partial) postcodes and numbers of holders in each area. There's no personal data there - it'd be impossible to identify individuals from it.

(01 Aug 2022, 2:21 pm)F114TML wrote I thought there was a park & ride for SAFC that left from (or near) hylton riverside? Certainly was a few years ago (it was Stagecoach deckers - probably Olympians - running it when I was on)

(01 Aug 2022, 2:28 pm)Adrian wrote Still is, apparently: https://safc.com/matchday/getting-to-the-sol

(01 Aug 2022, 2:17 pm)Andreos1 wrote Always thought you had a sensible head on your shoulders. One of the sensible posterss... Lost all respect I had for you Storx. Extremely disappointed.

*walks away slowly, shaking head with a look of dismay*

But in all seriousness, again, that's something the club and operators have the ability to resolve.
Whether that's working directly with operators or supporters clubs, there must be an offer of some sort of affordable and viable alternative to the car to take supporters from several key locations. 
In an ideal world, there's going to be an alternative that goes from north of the river.

(01 Aug 2022, 2:21 pm)F114TML wrote I thought there was a park & ride for SAFC that left from (or near) hylton riverside? Certainly was a few years ago (it was Stagecoach deckers - probably Olympians - running it when I was on)

(01 Aug 2022, 2:48 pm)Storx wrote Ha we all have a dark secret

Seriously though taking away the football, travelling across the Tyne in general is just a problem. There's about 100 buses, probably more? curious now, across the 4 bridges in the centre of Newcastle then there's 3 to the West (6, 7, 84A?) and 2 to the East (11). I'm not counting the 12 as it doesn't go anywhere bar straight into town and a ferry at a bottom of a bank with dodgy connections and at the wrong end of the town for the buses

It's been a massive problem up for here for ages and it's no wonder there's 100k or so cars (I believe is the number) travelling on the A1/A685 to the West and 40k or so to the East on the A19. Not to mention the cheap bastards who will use the Tyne Bridge to avoid the tolls, ignoring the fact they're paying more in petrol. 

Lot of people there and tbh there's no alternative really without a diversion via Newcastle which if your journey is Throckley to the Metro Centre is a long one (ignoring changing buses in random places) or Cobalt to Hebburn.

---

Yeah there is, but it's not exactly any use. Might aswell just park in Southwick / Roker instead and walk and save the bus journey which a lot of people do. It's at the wrong end of the traffic on Wessington Way so you get stuck either way with an additional inconvenience in waiting for a bus. Believe it was a condition of the Stadium of Light so it's there because it has to be there rather than to save traffic.

(01 Aug 2022, 4:06 pm)Ambassador wrote Matchday traffic from the South of the Tyne into Newcastle has been a problem since before Covid and shortages.

Newcastle remains a destination so aside the 50k you've got heading in you've got

- a horrendous road layout in Gateshead that doesn't seem to speed anything up. Without fail the lights change to red at the ped-x-ing on the Tyne Bridge as the buses turn onto it.
- Low Fell which from Chowdene Junction to the Cannon is a traffic jam and the bus priority at the Cannon causes more problems than it solves.
- Traffic being funnelled through Low Fell - again due to poor road planning and now the A1 roadworks.
-  Birtley's 37,000 set of traffic lights which can easily add 5-10 minutes onto running.

Buses then run so far behind they are loaded to the brim by the time they get to Allerdene going north and Wellington St (change here for Micropub) going South and you've no hope of boarding any more.

Ideally you'd have some short 21s to to run Newcastle-Harlow Green or even Newcastle-Angel relieving the pressure on the corridor and allowing more give when buses heading further South inevitabley snarl up

On a plus there's no longer a restriction on the Magpie Mover post game - it's now valid until last bus

(01 Aug 2022, 4:18 pm)Unber43 wrote The road between Gateshead & A19 has always been an awful issue, it hasn't got better.

It doesn't help that there is only 1 bus an hour going along their onto the A19, none to Boldon. GNE needs to target that area I was stuck on a 94 ( i think) coming from Saltwell to Heworth for 25 mins stuck in traffic